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What does Carr need to do?
- Thread starter gtexan02
- Start date
HomeBred_Texan
Veteran
With this board?
He could go 40/40 with 10 td's and some would still want his head on a platter. It comes down to once you hate a guy, he can never do anything right again... But many would jump on the bandwagon if we started winning some dang games...
He could go 40/40 with 10 td's and some would still want his head on a platter. It comes down to once you hate a guy, he can never do anything right again... But many would jump on the bandwagon if we started winning some dang games...
texflex513
Rookie
I think stated simply by kubiak himself play consistent for all 4 quarters. Which is kind of hard if everyone is not on the same page.gtexan02 said:
yourfavoritetexan42
Waterboy
I still stand firm when I say David Carr is a good player and he needs to remaind the quarterback for the Texans. He needs to just limit the stupid mistakes (fumbled snaps) and get a little help from his O line/running game.
He will lead us to at least 6 wins this season.
He will lead us to at least 6 wins this season.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
What about:
Leave this team and go somewhere that he will have pass blocking, a running game, a defense that puts pressure on the opposing QB, and a D that also keeps the run in check.
Your question is completely loaded. It should be what does this TEAM need to do. All you people who think it's just all on the QB need to try playing your beloved Madden with Peyton Manning ALONE against 11 defenders and see how well he does.
Leave this team and go somewhere that he will have pass blocking, a running game, a defense that puts pressure on the opposing QB, and a D that also keeps the run in check.
Your question is completely loaded. It should be what does this TEAM need to do. All you people who think it's just all on the QB need to try playing your beloved Madden with Peyton Manning ALONE against 11 defenders and see how well he does.
Houston_Fanatic
Maximum
lead the team to victory
Carr has the talent and the skills to be a good quarterback, but I have never seen him show any leadership skills. I know the guy has had a rough road with this team, but he hasn't shown the maturity that is so vital in this position.
I think his comment to the media about playing in Indy sums it up: "Coming up here is a chore". A chore. Like a spoiled teenager grumbling over being made to do something he didn't want to do. I'm sorry - this just doesn't cut it in the NFL and we will never make it to the playoffs with that attitude.
Carr has the talent and the skills to be a good quarterback, but I have never seen him show any leadership skills. I know the guy has had a rough road with this team, but he hasn't shown the maturity that is so vital in this position.
I think his comment to the media about playing in Indy sums it up: "Coming up here is a chore". A chore. Like a spoiled teenager grumbling over being made to do something he didn't want to do. I'm sorry - this just doesn't cut it in the NFL and we will never make it to the playoffs with that attitude.
AustinJB
Rookie
I voted "Manage the game and lead the team to victory."
To me that means a multitude of things that Carr needs to improve upon. I will preface this by saying that, admittedly, a lot of this has to do with the amount of sacks/pressure he's seen over his first four yrs. Regardless, they are still things he needs to do IMO to show that he is a QB that can lead a team and win.
1. It means not fumbling the snap a million times like a rookie QB...and when someone bumps your leg, the ball shouldn't fall out of your hand (i.e. the Colts game)
2. It means not looking like he's completely lost half the time and not having ants in his pants...stand still in the pocket and don't get rattled and run into the rush when there is no pressure.
3. Beat the blitz: while Carr can obviously take a hit, he is usually running around like a chicken w/ his head cutoff when he takes one...just once I want to see him stand in the pocket, wait that extra second for a receiver to break coverage, fire the ball to the WR for a completion and take the hit from the blitz. While it is easier said than done, IMO it's not too much to ask in year 5 from your #1 pick. That's what good QBs do and if he started doing this, he wouldn't see as many blitzes and wouldn't have to take too many of those type of hits.
4. Make good decisions...don't try to fire the ball into a WR who is covered by three defenders; this obviously means someone else is open.
5. Make the easy throws; when there is someone open, place the ball where it needs to be, not behind them or to the wrong shoulder, etc. (I've noticed this mostly to RBs in the flat and out patterns.)
6. Show mental resolve and determination. While he has shown that he is physically tough and durable, his expressions, etc. IMO have not shown the same. Don't get up off the ground after a sack and mope back to the sideline after a 3-and-out like he's lost his best friend...I want to see him fired up, pissed off about what just happened, correcting the Oline, etc. Also, while the media can misquote statements and make things sound worse than he meant them, he should be a leader for the team and have the fire and determination in his eyes and relay that with his quotes.
Carr doesn't have to show me 300+ yds a game, but he should complete passes and throw for touchdowns when it is necessary and there are 8 men in the box. He doesn't have to run for 400+ yds on the season, but he should be able to escape the pocket and run for a first down when it is there...don't wait until the defense catches up w/ you and then try to run for your life. He just needs to do what it takes to win each game...whether that means throwing TDs, scrambling for the occasional 1st down, leading the team in the huddle and on the field...and on the sideline...and in practice & in front of the media. Just win Baby! If our running game is dominating and he doesn't have to throw one time, that's fine w/ me...just manage the clock, lead the team, and don't fumble the snap.
To me that means a multitude of things that Carr needs to improve upon. I will preface this by saying that, admittedly, a lot of this has to do with the amount of sacks/pressure he's seen over his first four yrs. Regardless, they are still things he needs to do IMO to show that he is a QB that can lead a team and win.
1. It means not fumbling the snap a million times like a rookie QB...and when someone bumps your leg, the ball shouldn't fall out of your hand (i.e. the Colts game)
2. It means not looking like he's completely lost half the time and not having ants in his pants...stand still in the pocket and don't get rattled and run into the rush when there is no pressure.
3. Beat the blitz: while Carr can obviously take a hit, he is usually running around like a chicken w/ his head cutoff when he takes one...just once I want to see him stand in the pocket, wait that extra second for a receiver to break coverage, fire the ball to the WR for a completion and take the hit from the blitz. While it is easier said than done, IMO it's not too much to ask in year 5 from your #1 pick. That's what good QBs do and if he started doing this, he wouldn't see as many blitzes and wouldn't have to take too many of those type of hits.
4. Make good decisions...don't try to fire the ball into a WR who is covered by three defenders; this obviously means someone else is open.
5. Make the easy throws; when there is someone open, place the ball where it needs to be, not behind them or to the wrong shoulder, etc. (I've noticed this mostly to RBs in the flat and out patterns.)
6. Show mental resolve and determination. While he has shown that he is physically tough and durable, his expressions, etc. IMO have not shown the same. Don't get up off the ground after a sack and mope back to the sideline after a 3-and-out like he's lost his best friend...I want to see him fired up, pissed off about what just happened, correcting the Oline, etc. Also, while the media can misquote statements and make things sound worse than he meant them, he should be a leader for the team and have the fire and determination in his eyes and relay that with his quotes.
Carr doesn't have to show me 300+ yds a game, but he should complete passes and throw for touchdowns when it is necessary and there are 8 men in the box. He doesn't have to run for 400+ yds on the season, but he should be able to escape the pocket and run for a first down when it is there...don't wait until the defense catches up w/ you and then try to run for your life. He just needs to do what it takes to win each game...whether that means throwing TDs, scrambling for the occasional 1st down, leading the team in the huddle and on the field...and on the sideline...and in practice & in front of the media. Just win Baby! If our running game is dominating and he doesn't have to throw one time, that's fine w/ me...just manage the clock, lead the team, and don't fumble the snap.
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
cure cancer while avoiding a sack during the superbowl in the snow versus the Cowboys, only to hurl a ball 58 yards connecting with andre johnson for the game-winning TD with 1 second left on the clock. [edit] and, he has to run down the field, throwing a block at Roy Williams, clearing AJ's path to the endzone.gtexan02 said:
I chose " manage the game and lead the team to victory" because it is closest to what I want to see. The only stat that matters is W & L. I thought Carr did a pretty good job the last 2 weeks in the face of fierce pass rushes. He still had happy feet at times, but looked much more poised and aware. He could do a Brett Favre with 2 TD's and 4 INT's and get the W and we'd all be happy. The fumble-itis has to go. That's just silly at this level. Al Davis said it best, " just win, baby".
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Read the defense under Center, limit mistakes, make a couple of plays a game with his feet and look up field knowing that your dump offs will be there. Do it all while we win games otherwise we cut him. Carr, McKinney, Weigert and Pitts are the constants on the offensive side of the ball since day one. We need to start to purge further. I would start with Weigert, then McKinney and then Carr. Kubiak may have to wear the Scarlet C longer than he envisioned.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
Carr needs to lead this team to a come from behind win, it's that simple. He's got most of tools around him, now all he needs to do is pull this team from a deficit to lead this team. If we don't see at least one of these types of games this year then we know what we have in him.
texan_fan_8
Noob
HomeBred_Texan said:
I don't agree with you there. I watch every week waiting for even a flicker. The 2004 season had flickers. There are no more flickers. Doesn't mean hope stops.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
We'll know a lot more with the next two games, but if the Texans play the same way and get their jocks handed to them, they really need to consider about getting value for some players on their roster.
Let's be honest, the Texans look like they will not be a playoff caliber team for three or four years. Can you see Carr being the QB for two more years and they are playing this way? I don't care what his QB rating is. Carr could be an 8 year vet before the Texans are even close to fielding a winning team.
This team appears to be starting from scratch, I don't see how you keep David Carr and Andre Johnson on your team for three to four more years and make them the focal points. I don't care how good you think they are. This team is aweful!
Bottom line, they need to start playing a lot better and winning some games soon, or just start this thing all over again. I don't see how you keep the core of this team when you have changed everything else and you argueably have had a worse result than last year thus far this season.
Let's be honest, the Texans look like they will not be a playoff caliber team for three or four years. Can you see Carr being the QB for two more years and they are playing this way? I don't care what his QB rating is. Carr could be an 8 year vet before the Texans are even close to fielding a winning team.
This team appears to be starting from scratch, I don't see how you keep David Carr and Andre Johnson on your team for three to four more years and make them the focal points. I don't care how good you think they are. This team is aweful!
Bottom line, they need to start playing a lot better and winning some games soon, or just start this thing all over again. I don't see how you keep the core of this team when you have changed everything else and you argueably have had a worse result than last year thus far this season.
Carr needs to sit the bench and let Rosenfels have a start.
1. Carr refuses to step up in the pocket to avoid sacks.
2. his numbers are padded 2 late TD vs. Colts came in garbage time.
3. He is not a leader, the team named Andre Johnson as the team captain.
4. No poise in the pocket.
5. It seems that he refuses to make "a risky throw" meaning he takes the easy sure fire pass as opposed the the harder more risk pass. As a QB you need to pass up the sure fire pass and have a go at the riskier pass. This is one of the reasons I believe that he has no INT.
MAKE THE THROW CARR!!
Many a drives momnetum has been stopped because of sacks.
1. Carr refuses to step up in the pocket to avoid sacks.
2. his numbers are padded 2 late TD vs. Colts came in garbage time.
3. He is not a leader, the team named Andre Johnson as the team captain.
4. No poise in the pocket.
5. It seems that he refuses to make "a risky throw" meaning he takes the easy sure fire pass as opposed the the harder more risk pass. As a QB you need to pass up the sure fire pass and have a go at the riskier pass. This is one of the reasons I believe that he has no INT.
MAKE THE THROW CARR!!
Many a drives momnetum has been stopped because of sacks.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I voted for "have a great stat line."
My reasoning is that Carr can only control what he can control and those are his stats. If he makes good throws and good decisions and doesn't have a lot of turnovers, then that's all he can do. He can't play defense and he can't be the running back and he can't catch the passes. The winning and losing is up to the rest of the team.
Right now, he's improving. He's made a lot more improvement over these first two games than I expected. He's still got a ways to go but he's getting there.
My reasoning is that Carr can only control what he can control and those are his stats. If he makes good throws and good decisions and doesn't have a lot of turnovers, then that's all he can do. He can't play defense and he can't be the running back and he can't catch the passes. The winning and losing is up to the rest of the team.
Right now, he's improving. He's made a lot more improvement over these first two games than I expected. He's still got a ways to go but he's getting there.
rodog said:
Lol I'm sorry but this post just made me crack up. You want him to quit making the sure fire completion and go for the risky throws? Are you crazy? Our defense is awful. The last thing we need to do is throw deep into coverage and get it picked off. Have you not seen Favre play? He does exactly what you want Carr to do--Make the risky throw. Sometimes it works, and they gain huge chunks of yards. At the same time, he throws 30+ INTs.
Only, Carr is not as "talented" as Favre is. Favre is one of the NFLs best ever. It would be like Chris Simms. He is making the risky throws, and his stats so far: 0 TDs, 6 INTs
SESupergenius said:
Carr would be able to lead a come from behind win if he is given the chance to. The defense really isn't helping to keep the score close for that to happen.
What Carr needs to do is attack early. I feel that he needs to take control of the game early and be consistent about it throughtout the game, even if it's just allowing Kris Brown to get close enough to score points.
The Pencil Neck said:
But don't you think he is making Safe decisions as opposed to the right decisions? The right throw might be a little bit riskier and gain more yards as opposed to the SAFE throw that nets you only 5 yards.
The QB can't control if the team wins or looses? I disagree, this is why the QB position is paid so much $$$. Did you see Eli Manning lead his team to victory over the Eagles last Sunday?
The QB should be the leader of the team hence should be the captain of the team.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
rodog said:
1. I don't agree with that.
2. I totally don't understand this. He played in a lot of garbage time last year and he didn't get these scores. If he doesn't make those TD's in garbage time, then people accuse him and the team of having given up; if he does make those TD's, then it doesn't count because it's garbage time. That's just bs. The only way to lead a comeback is to try to get those TD's. The point you should concern yourself with is that the offense never gave up. If the D had been able to get some stops it would have been different.
3. Personally, I'm not a big believer in leadership. I think that's a hand-waving voodoo term like genetics.
4. He's made a lot of improvement here.
5. He was drilled to do this all last year. Kubiak is retraining him. Even so, I didn't see a lot of evidence of this yesterday. Sure he didn't take any real risks and his throws were for the most part safe but I don't think not taking risks is what caused the sacks. AND, if he does take risks and throw those interceptions, then you'd be ALL over him for throwing the picks, right?
S
SESupergenius
Guest
I saw Manning get thumped for 3 quarters, the Eagles had them at 24-7. Finally the Giants D stepped up and had a couple of 3 and outs and caused a fumble. Do you see our D doing that? Do you see our D giving the offense a spark? No. Without a doubt Eli doesn't do anything without their D. Of note however, Manning told Plaxico to go deep because he had the benefit of seeing the Eagles defense lineup for a blitz on a penalty a play earlier. Do Carr and AJ have that in them? Do they even talk like that? Can AJ make that kind of play?rodog said:
The Pencil Neck said:
So let me ask you if we have another loosing season and are ranked in the last tier in offensive. Do you stick with Carr for another season? Remind you this will be his 5th year, how many loosing seasons will it take to change your mind?
Not a big believer in Leadership? wow. Don't let Tom Brady hear you say that.
When I talk about garbage time its in reference to why Carrs stats are padded, The first team SHOULD score agains the 2nd team defense as was the case in Sundays butt spanking.
Your boy Carr will be benched by Mid Season.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
rodog said:
He does need to make some riskier throws. BUT... those risky throws are "risky" for a reason. One of the good things about DC is that he doesn't throw interceptions. If he starts doing that ALONG with taking sacks, then it really is time to get a new QB. If he can start making risky throws AND keep the picks down, then great. Kubiak is supposed to be working on this with him; remember all last year, they drilled him on getting the ball out as quick as possible and as safe as possible. It takes time to get rid of all that drill.
rodog said:
I don't believe in "leadership". You take a good QB and put him on a bad team and he's not going to "lead" that team to victory except play his position as well as he can. You can put a great QB on a bad team and he's not going to "lead" that team to victory; he'll make them better just because his play is better than someone else's. Great "leaders" usually have the luxury of having great teams. Favre isn't any less of a leader this year than he was 8 years ago; his team just isn't as good. Is McNair a great leader now but wasn't last year? He's on a good team now like he was back when the Titans were good.
The Giants won yesterday for a variety of reasons. Some iffy play calls by the Eagles, a silly personal foul, a fumble into the end-zone that easily could have gone the other way and end the game. Manning had nothing to do with that. But what he DID do was he kept playing and he kept trying. He didn't give up. Eli is great at that.
The difference between the Eagles and the Colts yesterday is that the Eagles relaxed and the Colts kept playing. Carr did all he could do at the end of the game yesterday to try to come back. But our defense didn't stop the Colts in the 4th quarter; the Giants defense DID stop the Eagles in the 4th quarter. Our defense has to give us a chance to come back. That has nothing to do with a lack of leadership on the offensive side of the ball.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
rodog said:
So you're saying that Tom Brady wins superbowls on crappy teams? I don't think so. Tom Brady doesn't win those superbowls, a great team won those super bowls. Was he any less of a leader when the Patriots went 7-9? No, his team wasn't as good.
I know what you're talking about wrt Garbage Time. Comebacks happen because teams score touchdowns in Garbage Time and the team that's ahead relaxes and stops scoring. A sign of Carr's improvement is that he GOT those scores in garbage time.
Now... as to Carr being "my boy." Carr isn't my boy. I would have no problem if they bring in a better QB and replace him. If Kubiak thinks this team has a better chance of winning with Sage than Carr, I'm fine with that. Bench him. I'm a Texan fan and I want to win. BUT. I think it's idiotic to lay the blame for losses at Carr's feet when the problems lie elsewhere. I don't believe that starting Sage improves our team. I believe Kubiak when he says that Carr can do this.
I have a tendency to defend Carr against some people on this board because I think they're being totally unrealistic in their attacks on Carr.
I have never expected more than 5-6 wins for this team this year. I never expected to win these first two games. I expected our defense to be a little better but not really all that much. If Carr continues to improve (as we have seen him improve) then I see no reason to bench him. He's already well on the way to the numbers I said would be satisfactory from his position prior to the start of the season.
prostock101
Mr. Big
Carr always seems a little jittery the first couple of series so I have the solution.
1. During warmups have the D line run over and sack him a couple times just to loosen him up.
2. A valium and a couple of head slaps and I think he'll be good to go.
1. During warmups have the D line run over and sack him a couple times just to loosen him up.
2. A valium and a couple of head slaps and I think he'll be good to go.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
rodog said:
Are you sure you want to start making personal comments?
gtexan02 said:
I'm sorry read your post and it made me crack up.
don't we have 2 probowl receivers? How many does Favre have?
Favre is an old man @ the end of his career on the decline. You cannot compare the two unless you compare both Qbs at similar ages.
Discussing the defense is a whole different thread.
Yea David Carr throwing the ball downfield and making 30 yard completions would make for a more exciting ball game.
Sure he would get picked off but we have quality receivers who really have not had a chance to make huge plays.
The Pencil Neck said:
Who said anything about SuperBowls? I'm talking about winning some games here. By the Way the Patriots are 2-0
When I refer to garbage time I mean the opposing team is up by 20 plus points and is in complete control of the game, The Texans by the end of the 3rd start of the 4th had no chance to win that game. See Buffalo Bills vs. Oilers 1993? I think
I'm not laying the losses @ Carrs feet I'm laying being ranked at the lower tier of offensive stats 4 years in row at his feet. The team with the most points at the end of the game wins.
All I'm saying give SAGE a chance. Give him a start
You have never expected more than 5-6 wins this season!!
Well thats the problem right there, you are settling, stand up and raise your bar! I want the Texans to win every game.
prostock101
Mr. Big
Carr always seems a little jittery the first couple of series. My solution is during warmups before the game, have the D line run over and sack him a couple of times and he should be good to go....
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
prostock101 said:
LOL! Good idea. Maybe they could have him stand at one of the entry gates to the stadium and have the fans knock him around a little too. It'll kill 2 birds with one stone: get DC ready for the first series and let the Carr haters take thier fustrations out on him.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
rodog said:
Leadership is leadership; at least, it should be. People have always said that Favre is a "great leader". His leadership should still be the same as it ever was. He's not as good a player and he doesn't have as good a team. And that's why he's losing. His leadership doesn't have anything to do with it.
And I totally agree that we need to get Carr looking downfield more. This is something that's been discussed on here before. 2 years ago, he looked great. Then last year they drilled him to throw short and quick with no interceptions. I think that's why he was also locking in on one receiver; he didn't have time to look off in that sort of scheme. It's going to take a little time to get rid of that training and I think it's starting to work.
My biggest concern with Carr has been that he's been mentally damaged by the sacks and last year's scheme. I've been worried that he wouldn't be able to recover. I've been relatively pleased with what I've seen so far. Last year, he didn't get those garbage time yards.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
rodog said:
We've played 2 Super Bowl contenders. When you talk about Brady's leadership, then you're obviously talking about the fact that he has 3 Superbowls and that the Patriots have been winners while he has been there.
So the question is: have they been winners because he's a great leader or because they have a great team? Or does his reputation for leadership come from him being lucky enough to be in the right place in the right time on the right team? Is it Belichick being a genius or was it Weiss and Crennel?
rodog said:
The only way you have a big comeback is if you start scoring TD's and your defense starts getting 3 and outs. If you start scoring TD's, the defense still has to hold up its end of the bargain. And frequently that's helped because the team that's ahead starts letting up. The Eagles are a case in point; yesterday, they let up. They relaxed and the Giant D started getting stops.
Yesterday, Carr did his part. In garbage time, he led us to touchdowns. And please realize that the same players were playing the entire game for hte Colts. Those second stringers that Carr lit up where in there in the 2nd and 3rd quarters as well. If the defense had been able to stop the Colts a few more times, we would have been in the game.
If Lundy doesn't fumble... if Cook doesn't get the chop block call... if we get a couple of breaks.... we're in the game.
rodog said:
I want the Texans to win every game, I'm just realistic about their chances.
If you put Sage in, do you seriously think that they'll have a better chance of winning? I don't. You say you want to win but if you put Sage in there, you're just throwing in the towel and trying to get the first pick again.
BTW, 2 years ago, we weren't in the bottom of the league when it came to offensive stats. 2 years ago, Carr was 120 yards away from being ranked in the top 10 for yards. Right now, we've played against two strong defenses and we're ranked 20th in passing and 21st in running. We're supposed to be a running team and right now, our running game is a mess. We get that fixed, and everything will start to improve.
It's not time to panic, yet.