What do you think, is it OK for top NFL prospects to skip their college Bowl games ?

[Texecutioner]

Thanks this is what I expected college athletes lives to be like. Most 18 yr old kids are unable to understand this.

Just curious what yr did you graduate? I'm sure there are even more demands on athletes than there were when you graduated. I cant imagine a kid from a poor background would stand a chance under these conditions. (Single mom, bad schools etc...) The exceptions to the rule would be athletes that didn't take under the table payments. IMHO

These are things that normal college students dont understand.

Where do you get that these guys go to miserable experiences? Pretty much any college player that gets a scholarship on a full ride, and hates their life is their own problem. The problem is them. College kids all over the country have to put themselves through college and work extra jobs and raise kids in many cases and they graduate. College itself isn't supposed to be some easy experience. How many college football players have you hung out with at a big university like Texas A&M or UT? I've hung out with several over the years, and believe me they've got the best opportunities and lifestyles on the entire campus. They've got girls all over the place throwing themselves at these guys and the majority of the student body wants to buddy up to them. They are treated like rockstars for the most part. If they want to act like they got it so bad and its to rough, then let the survival of the fittest take over and weed them out. They don't deserve the opportunities then. Nothing is going to be given to you in life, and their scholarship wasn't given. They had to earn it in HS by playing well and making their grades. If they can't do that on the next level when their education is actually being paid for, then they have their own personal problems that they need to deal with. These guys get free tutors and the most help that any student could get. The idea that these guys are these poor broke children that can't get by and have it so horrible on a college scholarship for football programs is hilarious. I've seen some of the ugliest cornfed Olineman banging hot blondes that would never even speak to them if they saw them in a diner. But that football star status on the campus gave them rewards they never could experience otherwise.

 

[Texecutioner]

Why? Because it's their life, their future.
They've played and practiced up to three years on this scholarship deal. I don't blame them for taking this out any more than I'd blame a computer science scholarship recipient for walking out on his scholarship job as a professor's assistant if Google or Amazon or Facebook offered him/her a big money job because they recognized their smarts/talents.

And don't you think this implied agreement is of the nature that you stay on scholarship as long as you play football at an acceptable level? So once a player makes the decision to quit the team and leaves school, wouldn't his scholarship be terminated?? He's no longer benefiting from being at the school at the school's expense. Deal over.

Well hopefully they can shred their transcripts then, and if they ever want to attend college again or get a degree they can start from scratch since their attitude was to dishonor their agreement. That's life. There are terms and conditions to things and if a free education and tuition is not considered a strong benefit then they shouldn't care if their transcript is deleted unless they'd like to pay the costs for what all those classes would have been over the years for the semester tuition, dorm costs, and every other fees the colleges paid for that student athlete that didn't want to honor their obligations.

 

[ObsiWan]

Well hopefully they can shred their transcripts then, and if they ever want to attend college again or get a degree they can start from scratch since their attitude was to dishonor their agreement. That's life. There are terms and conditions to things and if a free education and tuition is not considered a strong benefit then they shouldn't care if their transcript is deleted unless they'd like to pay the costs for what all those classes would have been over the years for the semester tuition, dorm costs, and every other fees the colleges paid for that student athlete that didn't want to honor their obligations.

To borrow from the president-elect...
WRONG!

They played three years and 9-10 games into a fourth. You just said because they decide to opt out of one stinking game the school should retroactively negate all they've accomplished academically in those previous three years AND ask for a refund for the prior three years even though they played, practiced, and did what the coaches expected thereby holding up their end of the "bargain" for those three-plus years.

...and that sounds fair to you? Seriously??

 

[Texecutioner]

To borrow from the president-elect...
WRONG!

They played three years and 9-10 games into a fourth. You just said because they decide to opt out of one stinking game the school should retroactively negate all they've accomplished academically in those previous three years AND ask for a refund for the prior three years even though they played, practiced, and did what the coaches expected thereby holding up their end of the "bargain" for those three-plus years.

...and that sounds fair to you? Seriously??

Absolutely it does. You don't like the terms, then don't accept the scholarship. Pay for your education like everyone else. If free tuition isn't that good of a benefit, then go to London or some other country and play football there until you can play in the NFL.

That may sound harsh, but it likely would stop these athletes from being selfish and and not wanting to follow through with their obligations. And hell, if these same guys have insurance policies like most elite players do these days, then that stance isn't unfair at all in my eyes. That is the entire reason to get the insurance policy. If a player naturally gets injured, then that is one thing. They can get a diagnosis and it can be proven that they're actually injured by medical specialists. If they just want to run out on the team, then let them do it but they'll have to lose their benefits they earned since they didn't follow through with their obligations.

This isn't just about the team or the schools losing out. This is the networks and the NCAA and the schools who put deals together expecting certain revenue with projections and data that creates speculated amounts of income to be made. If elite athletes are all just running out on their teams and refusing to play in the biggest games of the year not only for their schools, but for the college football as a whole. It isn't about the athletes any way. Its about the entire system staying balanced so that the schools get what they expect and the fans are keeping their interest for those big games. Playing in college is a huge privlige where thousands of others can replace them. It isn't some god given right to get the opportunity.

 

[Texecutioner]

To borrow from the president-elect...
WRONG!

They played three years and 9-10 games into a fourth. You just said because they decide to opt out of one stinking game the school should retroactively negate all they've accomplished academically in those previous three years AND ask for a refund for the prior three years even though they played, practiced, and did what the coaches expected thereby holding up their end of the "bargain" for those three-plus years.

...and that sounds fair to you? Seriously??

One more thing to add is that the NCAA could easily get with the NFL and have the NFL penalize these guys the minute they enter the league hurting their draft status and their initial checks. They already have punished players like Pryor in the past for breaking rules and then bailing to the NFL. Personally I never thought that was fair and didn't like that being existent, but if athletes are going to just quit on their teams, then hopefully the NFL can get involved and issue out suspensions or other penalties to lower the interest in teams drafting high in the first rounds.

Athletes can do what they want and are free to make decisions, but those decisions like anything should come with consequences especially when those athletes are hurting the business of college football.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

How do you figure that taking a red shirt status away would help to prevent these situations? I'm not understanding that part.

What I'm saying is if guys backing out of bowl games becomes a big issue, maybe allowing red shirt freshman to play in that one game without losing their redshirt year would generate interest. Letting fans and scouts get a peek at that hot freshman prospect.

Just spitballing.

 

[steelbtexan]

Where do you get that these guys go to miserable experiences? Pretty much any college player that gets a scholarship on a full ride, and hates their life is their own problem. The problem is them. College kids all over the country have to put themselves through college and work extra jobs and raise kids in many cases and they graduate. College itself isn't supposed to be some easy experience. How many college football players have you hung out with at a big university like Texas A&M or UT? I've hung out with several over the years, and believe me they've got the best opportunities and lifestyles on the entire campus. They've got girls all over the place throwing themselves at these guys and the majority of the student body wants to buddy up to them. They are treated like rockstars for the most part. If they want to act like they got it so bad and its to rough, then let the survival of the fittest take over and weed them out. They don't deserve the opportunities then. Nothing is going to be given to you in life, and their scholarship wasn't given. They had to earn it in HS by playing well and making their grades. If they can't do that on the next level when their education is actually being paid for, then they have their own personal problems that they need to deal with. These guys get free tutors and the most help that any student could get. The idea that these guys are these poor broke children that can't get by and have it so horrible on a college scholarship for football programs is hilarious. I've seen some of the ugliest cornfed Olineman banging hot blondes that would never even speak to them if they saw them in a diner. But that football star status on the campus gave them rewards they never could experience otherwise.

While I agree with most of this post, my roomate who was a BB player at a small school was from a poor family and didn't have any money. He got free food but his daily living expenses were covered by a $700 Pell grant per semester and a summer job he had. There weren't many extras. When he went out on dates the girls usually paid.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Poor honorable networks, and NCAA, and schools. How ever will they continue with this system so stacked against them?

And especially against these ruthless, power mad peasant kids. The audacity of them to care at all about their futures out of college.

Will anybody think about the San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl!?

 

[Texecutioner]

Poor honorable networks, and NCAA, and schools. How ever will they continue with this system so stacked against them?

And especially against these ruthless, power mad peasant kids. The audacity of them to care at all about their futures out of college.

Will anybody think about the San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl!?

You may be in favor of dishonesty and deception, and good for you (Not really). Spare me on the idea of them looking out for their futures when they don't give a damn about a college degree. Most college players won't make it to the NFL, and a large quantity of them won't last long in the NFL. Go look at the statistics of ex NFL athletes going bankrupt from a lack of education on how to spend their money and to be responsible with their income portfolios.

The fact is you put an an agreement in place, and if you don't honor it all because you have selfish goals of your own interests that conflict with your obligations you agreed to then that says more about your own character than any networks who are actually in business unlike student athletes.

Funny thing is people with your attitude are the first ones to scratch their heads and act confused and complain once the product gets way watered down like boxing and college basketball did. Once they're gone, they don't ever come back.

 

[Texecutioner]

While I agree with most of this post, my roomate who was a BB player at a small school was from a poor family and didn't have any money. He got free food but his daily living expenses were covered by a $700 Pell grant per semester and a summer job he had. There weren't many extras. When he went out on dates the girls usually paid.

He didn't have to accept the scholarship though. He chose to take it, because he couldn't afford that tuition on his own most likely and that was the only way he could attend that school. If he got that scholarship and held onto it and got himself a college degree, then good for him. He'll have a lot more opportunities for the rest of his life for more jobs and to demand more money. College degrees are powerful in America, and it aint getting any easier here.

 

[Texecutioner]

What I'm saying is if guys backing out of bowl games becomes a big issue, maybe allowing red shirt freshman to play in that one game without losing their redshirt year would generate interest. Letting fans and scouts get a peek at that hot freshman prospect.

Just spitballing.

I was just curious as to where you were going with that idea.

I think the Universities could just withdraw their transcripts and make them pay for the semesters they attended college if they want the transcripts to stay in place. If that athlete gets into the NFL, he should be able to pay that back to the schools that very next year. If he never pays, then his college records are sealed. There wouldn't be an easy fix for all of this and you are right that they could fake injuries in some cases and act hurt in pre game routines, but all of that stuff would get a lot more risky with consequences in place. I think most student athletes parents would urge them to play and keep their education records in tact. After all what is one more game? These guys play for 3 to 4 years, and 1 more game is that much of a risk? The entire season they allegedly play hard for all is for that one last game to determine where they end up for the season.

At the end of the day, they've had big insurance policies in places for years to protect the athletes from occurences like these. This is just another step that waters down college football a lot if it isn't addressed.

 

[Mollywhopper]

You may be in favor of dishonesty and deception, and good for you (Not really). Spare me on the idea of them looking out for their futures when they don't give a damn about a college degree. Most college players won't make it to the NFL, and a large quantity of them won't last long in the NFL. Go look at the statistics of ex NFL athletes going bankrupt from a lack of education on how to spend their money and to be responsible with their income portfolios.

The fact is you put an an agreement in place, and if you don't honor it all because you have selfish goals of your own interests that conflict with your obligations you agreed to then that says more about your own character than any networks who are actually in business unlike student athletes.

Funny thing is people with your attitude are the first ones to scratch their heads and act confused and complain once the product gets way watered down like boxing and college basketball did. Once they're gone, they don't ever come back.

- You don't seem to mind dishonesty and deception by coaches who make promises to kids/parents and then bail.

And why can't looking out for their futures consist of staying healthy for their professional career that's right around the corner?

The players that have announced they're skipping bowl games are assuredly going to make it to the NFL. How they handle their finances after that is irrespective of whether they should or shouldn't have stuck around for one more meaningless game.

- Again, you don't seem to mind coaches not meeting promises. You even scoffed that kids/parents should just know better and expect them to be full of sh*t. The nerve of these kids to not honor their commitments though, huh?

- Show me where I've been acting confused or complaining about any watered down product. I never liked straight from high school to the pros for college bball and I wouldn't like it for college football. I like the 3 years removed rule the way it's been. But I'm not going to pretend I have any right to tell these kids what to do when I'm also not going to be there to help them if something terrible should happen that costs them future earnings.

That's their decision.

 

[Texecutioner]

- You don't seem to mind dishonesty and deception by coaches who make promises to kids/parents and then bail.

You are coming off really slow if you can't see that they are apples to oranges, and anyone is downright stupid if they think that coaches may not leave for better jobs or get fired.

And why can't looking out for their futures consist of staying healthy for their professional career that's right around the corner?

They signed on to play football for god sakes. They decided to risk their health the minute they played in Pee Wee League. What they do after their season is their own business. They weren't recruited with the condition that they don't have to play in bowl games, and you're a total liar if you're going to act like you think HC's recruit players who demand to sit out bowl games.

The players that have announced they're skipping bowl games are assuredly going to make it to the NFL. How they handle their finances after that is irrespective of whether they should or shouldn't have stuck around for one more meaningless game.

That wouldn't be the case at all if the schools take away their education records or make them responsible for their tuition which they can and should.

- Again, you don't seem to mind coaches not meeting promises. You even scoffed that kids/parents should just know better and expect them to be full of sh*t. The nerve of these kids to not honor their commitments though, huh?

If your argument is that weak and irrelevant then don't respond. I've already noted that this is apples to oranges and if you can't understand that then you shouldn't even be discussing any of this. This entire subject is about student athletes, not coaches. If you want to discuss coaches then discuss it in another thread about the NCAA rules for when and how coaches can interview with other schools.

- Show me where I've been acting confused or complaining about any watered down product. I never liked straight from high school to the pros for college bball and I wouldn't like it for college football. I like the 3 years removed rule the way it's been. But I'm not going to pretend I have any right to tell these kids what to do when I'm also not going to be there to help them if something terrible should happen that costs them future earnings.

That's their decision.

You are correct that you don't have that right to tell them anything. Their coaches and the school who gave them a free tuition obligating them to play sure as hell can. No one made them play football for that college. They decided to so they could play on television and get all of the other perks college athletes get. If they aren't good enough, then the athlete can stay at home.

 

[Mollywhopper]

You are coming off really slow if you can't see that they are apples to oranges, and anyone is downright stupid if they think that coaches may not leave for better jobs or get fired.

I've said this multiple times whether you agree or not ... compensation for a task. You've yet to give any actual good reason how it's any different, except naming fruit again and again. And they both make promises. Hell, one of them breaking promises is supposed to be essentially a teacher. Go figure.

They signed on to play football for god sakes. They decided to risk their health the minute they played in Pee Wee League. What they do after their season is their own business. They weren't recruited with the condition that they don't have to play in bowl games, and you're a total liar if you're going to act like you think HC's recruit players who demand to sit out bowl games.

I never said HC's recruit saying that. I don't even know how thin the air is you pulled that out of. But they do tell parents that they're there to build a program with their kids and that they'll continue to be there ... yet we know how that so often turns out. But it's ok, it's different for them. Because Tex repeats apples and oranges over and over.

They do risk injury, and they do so to get to a certain point. At some point when they're prospects are sucure they have to make a risk/reward decision though. And a frivolous bowl game is no kind of worthwhile risk for a young man who's got millions on the line. And certainly not one who's seen guys before him lose out taking that chance.

That wouldn't be the case at all if the schools take away their education records or make them responsible for their tuition which they can and should.

How does doing that change anything I said there?

If your argument is that weak and irrelevant then don't respond. I've already noted that this is apples to oranges and if you can't understand that then you shouldn't even be discussing any of this.

You can repeat apples and oranges till you're blueberries in the face. Doesn't change either situation from being about men ultimately making decisions for their futures regardless, unfortunately, whether they meet commitments fully or not.

You are correct that you don't have that right to tell them anything. Their coaches and the school who gave them a free tuition obligating them to play sure as hell can. No one made them play football for that college. They decided to.

No solid way that I've heard yet to stop this from happening to kids who know they're going to get picked early. You may dissuade some kids who aren't sure how much they'll cash in, and frankly I think that would be a good thing, as I don't want to see any of these kids make a poor decision regardless of what that decision is. But for the McCaffreys and Fournettes of the world a good financial start to an NFL future is a done deal. The poor, helpless, honorable, and honest NCAA can kick and scream all it wants.

 

[infantrycak]

I've said this multiple times whether you agree or not ... compensation for a task.

You do keep saying this and it is completely contradictory to your position.

Compensation = 1 year of scholarship.
Task = 1 year of football. Not as many games as you want to play.

 

[Mollywhopper]

You do keep saying this and it is completely contradictory to your position.

Compensation = 1 year of scholarship.
Task = 1 year of football, not as many games as you want to play.

I've considered that, but coaches leave for new jobs before bowl games all the time. Holds the whole idea to form.

 

[infantrycak]

I've considered that, but coaches leave for new jobs before bowl games all the time. Holds the whole idea to form.

Bet they get docked for that game, so unless you have some proof they generally don't, no it doesn't hold true.

 

[JB]

You do keep saying this and it is completely contradictory to your position.

Compensation = 1 year of scholarship.
Task = 1 season of football. Not as many games as you want to play.

Fify

Bowl games are post season. If a coach leaves before the bowl game he gets paid for the entire year

edit: see you addressed this above

 

[Texecutioner]

I've said this multiple times whether you agree or not ... compensation for a task. You've yet to give any actual good reason how it's any different, except naming fruit again and again. And they both make promises. Hell, one of them breaking promises is supposed to be essentially a teacher. Go figure.



I never said HC's recruit saying that. I don't even know how thin the air is you pulled that out of. But they do tell parents that they're there to build a program with their kids and that they'll continue to be there ... yet we know how that so often turns out. But it's ok, it's different for them. Because Tex repeats apples and oranges over and over.

They do risk injury, and they do so to get to a certain point. At some point when they're prospects are sucure they have to make a risk/reward decision though. And a frivolous bowl game is no kind of worthwhile risk for a young man who's got millions on the line. And certainly not one who's seen guys before him lose out taking that chance.



How does doing that change anything I said there?



You can repeat apples and oranges till you're blueberries in the face. Doesn't change either situation from being about men ultimately making decisions for their futures regardless, unfortunately, whether they meet commitments fully or not.



No solid way that I've heard yet to stop this from happening to kids who know they're going to get picked early. You may dissuade some kids who aren't sure how much they'll cash in, and frankly I think that would be a good thing, as I don't want to see any of these kids make a poor decision regardless of what that decision is. But for the McCaffreys and Fournettes of the world a good financial start to an NFL future is a done deal. The poor, helpless, honorable, and honest NCAA can kick and scream all it wants.

Basically you can't comprehend that HC's have a career and are paid for their jobs. Your entire premise to suggest that they shouldn't be able to leave for other opportunities is completely unrealistic in a career based society, because you're implying that they have to keep the same job for life. There is no one year where they can leave where recruits aren't still there. They recruit every single year or did you forget that? So they could NEVER get another job for the rest of their career or they are some big fat liar to the athletes according to you. And based on this structure, the HC's now should be able to tell the schools that they can't fire them or they are lying to them as well. So every college and HC need to be married to one another until that HC retires based on your premise. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Did you even think about that before you rambled on for several posts trying to compare a student athlete to a career profession that usually takes 15 to 20 years to become at a top notch school in a results oriented field? College coaches can't say they'll be at any school forever, because they can get fired or a huge new job could open up for them. Every student athlete that picks a school for a scholarship knows the HC can't stick to those promises no matter what. You want to blame only the coach for taking on new opportunities, but have zero problems with the school firing them whenever they want.

Funny thing is that when this happens more and more, guys will soon start quitting at mid season saying it is to risky to keep playing. It will be the exact same argument they can use as well. That next 5 games could ruin my draft status. I can't risk myself for that. Also, you don't seem to realize that student athletes get punished for bailing on their school as well. If they leave for another program, they have to wait a full year before they can play again. Where is your disdain for the NCAA for hurting that student athlete's future?

And don't come back into this thread saying you weren't saying any of that after you stubbornly made the same comparison again and again. The next time a plumber or some electrician only does half the work you paid him to for, I hope you don't feel screwed. After all, they need to look out for their future and part of that job might injure them where they can't perform for other customers.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Bet they get docked for that game, so unless you have some proof they generally don't, no it doesn't hold true.

They may not collect any kind of bonus, but I've never heard of a coach getting docked for leaving before bowl games.

Besides, the player has to run the risk that a team will judge him for leaving early. Bruce Arians today said he'd consider it the totality of a kid's eval.

 

[Texecutioner]

Bet they get docked for that game, so unless you have some proof they generally don't, no it doesn't hold true.

Bet they get docked for that game, so unless you have some proof they generally don't, no it doesn't hold true.

The school doesn't even allow them to coach for those games in many cases. They kick them the hell out.

Do the schools still pay them for that game in those situations? I would think so if the school is not allowing them to coach.

 

[Texecutioner]

Bet they get docked for that game, so unless you have some proof they generally don't, no it doesn't hold true.

The school doesn't even allow them to coach for those games in many cases. They kick them the hell out.

Do the schools still pay them for that game in those situations? I would think so if the school is not allowing them to coach.

 

[JB]

Besides, the player has to run the risk that a team will judge him for leaving early. Bruce Arians today said he'd consider it the totality of a kid's eval.

That's why I mentioned the love of the game vs the thoughts of future paydays. Some coaches will question the players love of the game if they choose to sit

 

[infantrycak]

They may not collect any kind of bonus, but I've never heard of a coach getting docked for leaving before bowl games.

I believe in both college and NFL coaches regular salary is divided among regular season games and then there is an agreed upon salary for any ppst season games.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Basically you can't comprehend that HC's have a career and are paid for their jobs. Your entire premise to suggest that they shouldn't be able to leave for other opportunities is completely unrealistic in a career based society, because you're implying that they have to keep the same job for life. There is no one year where they can leave where the victim blamers like yourself won't cry and moan about it. They recruit every single year or did you forget that? So they could NEVER get another job for the rest of their career or they are some big fat liar to the athletes. And based on this structure, the HC's now should be able to tell the schools that they can't fire them or they are lying to them as well. So every college and HC need to be married to one another until that HC retires. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Did you even think about that before you rambled on for several posts trying to compare a student athlete to a career profession that usually takes 15 to 20 years to become at a top notch school? College coaches can't say they'll be at any school forever, because they can get fired or a huge new job could open up for them. Every student athlete that picks a school for a scholarship knows the HC can't stick to those promises no matter what.

Funny thing is that when this happens more and more, guys will soon start quitting at mid season saying it is to risky to keep playing. It will be the exact same argument they can use as well. That next 5 games could ruin my draft status. I can't risk myself for that.

And don't come back into this thread saying you weren't saying any of that after you stubbornly made the same comparison again and again. The next time a plumber or some electrician only does half the work you paid him to for, I hope you don't feel screwed. After all, they need to look out for their future and part of that job might injure them where they can't perform for other customers.

I never said coaches shouldn't be able to leave. Not once. But you're acting like the coaches don't make promises they don't even intend to keep. I've just said it's all fair instead of holding one party to an agreement and not the other.

Quitting on an unscheduled meaningless bowl game is rather different than quitting mid-season. I believe we'll see a guy sit out his junior year all together before we see a mid-season bail.

Sorry these kids looking out for themselves seems to have you ready to throw a tantrum. Poor, poor you not able to enjoy the Cashgrab.com Bowl as much.

Hell, even Nick Saban recognizes this is just an issue college football has brought on itself.

 

[Texecutioner]

That's why I mentioned the love of the game vs the thoughts of future paydays. Some coaches will question the players love of the game if they choose to sit

As they should. College football is for kids to get a free education, and enjoy playing a fun sport in front of thousands of people. There is a huge privlige in that, and there are always thousands of other kids willing to take that spot for those other guys who don't consider it that way. We've seen hundreds of guys flame out really fast in the NFL who held that attitude. They get washed out really quick in most cases.

I think many people are also forgetting that the NCAA and the NFL do have a structure in place to punish players once they enter the NFL for NCAA infractions. Terrelle Pryor had to serve a suspension in his first season because of his rule violations, and it did hurt his draft status.

 

[Texecutioner]

I never said coaches shouldn't be able to leave. Not once. But you're acting like the coaches don't make promises they don't even intend to keep. I've just said it's all fair instead of holding one party to an agreement and not the other.

Quitting on an unscheduled meaningless bowl game is rather different than quitting mid-season. I believe we'll see a guy sit out his junior year all together before we see a mid-season bail.

Sorry these kids looking out for themselves seems to have you ready to throw a tantrum. Poor, poor you not able to enjoy the Cashgrab.com Bowl as much.

Hell, even Nick Saban recognizes this is just an issue college football has brought on itself.

AGAIN, when could a college coach LEAVE FOR A NEW JOB? Come on genius. They recruit every season, so based on your criteria there is no actual time where they could get a new job as a HC or they will be a liar and a scumbag because of his players who came there to play for him. You speak as if we live in some sports world where college HC's only recruit every ten years. You keep failing to address that by calling them liars.

The fact that you can't see the difference between an expert professional in their career who works generally 15 to 20 years to manage a football team and an entire staff and hold relations all around the state with boosters and other elitists that they're paid for, and you think their responsibility is the same of some young 21 year old athlete who has proven nothing as a professional and is only there based on their obligation they agreed to is your problem. Sorry, but you're just arguing to argue to even act like they are on the same responsibility level as far as their duties go. They are there, because they have earned a career and earned a long time reputation for leadership just like any CEO is. A student athlete has proven nothing other than the fact that they are athletic and have potential to help a football team possibly.

What's next? Are you going to act like college professors have to live by the same standards as the students too? Should we put the HC's in dorms with the players since you want the same standards to apply across the board? Should we drug test all the coaches? Give them curfiews? You aren't incapable of understanding this. You just don't want to acknowledge that you didn't think this through.

 

[gs27]

I would argue that a bowl game is the most important game of any teams season after they reach 2 losses. School pride, conference pride, recruiting, and the bowl game is the most important game of the year to raise ranking stock for the next season. Bowl games are far from meaningless.

 

[Mollywhopper]

AGAIN, when could a college coach LEAVE FOR A NEW JOB? Come on genius. They recruit every season, so based on your criteria there is no actual time where they could get a new job as a HC or they will be a liar and a scumbag because of his players who came there to play for him. You speak as if we live in some sports world where college HC's only recruit every ten years. You keep failing to address that by calling them liars.

The fact that you can't see the difference between an expert professional in their career who works generally 15 to 20 years to manage a football team and an entire staff and hold relations all around the state with boosters and other elitists that they're paid for, and you think their responsibility is the same of some young 21 year old athlete who has proven nothing as a professional and is only there based on their obligation they agreed to is your problem. Sorry, but you're just arguing to argue to even act like they are on the same responsibility level as far as their duties go. They are there, because they have earned a career and earned a long time reputation for leadership just like any CEO is. A student athlete has proven nothing other than the fact that they are athletic and have potential to help a football team possibly.

What's next? Are you going to act like college professors have to live by the same standards as the students too? Should we put the HC's in dorms with the players since you want the same standards to apply across the board? Should we drug test all the coaches? Give them curfiews? You aren't incapable of understanding this. You just don't want to acknowledge that you didn't think this through.

Show me when I said a coach can't leave for a new job? I've only spoken to them being full of sh*t about the promises they keep.

A student athlete proving he's got potential for a pro football team is everything in that example. It's the whole point actually. Both the coach and the student athlete have professional value. If they'd never proven that then this whole thing wouldn't in fact be an issue.

They have different roles/tasks. Ok. Doesn't mean they don't both have responsibilities and futures to look out for. I know you don't see that as meaningful. Ok.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Fact is I'm not exactly thrilled with the idea of this for these kids/the game moving forward. I just ultimately can't hold their concerns totally against them in the risk/reward scenario of a superfluous bowl game that only looks to line the fat cat's pockets further. Not for the few whose draft stock is secure, who were leaving the next year anyway, and who those same fat cats aren't going to look out for if something terrible should happen in that game.

However unlikely that they get seriously injured I just get that it may feel too much to risk so close to getting that first potentially forever life-altering contract. For them and their families. I just can't hold it against them. It's their decision. I accept that.

 

[Texecutioner]

Show me when I said a coach can't leave for a new job? I've only spoken to them being full of sh*t about the promises they keep.

Oh, so now all of a sudden you see the fundamental flaw in your entire argument?

It was common sense from the beginning which is why I tried my best not to not even waste time discussing the comparison of a student athlete versus a HC who has a long established career and money is involved unlike with student athletes. You just wanted to argue so you totally ignored that HC's recruit every single year so there would never be a time where they could leave and wouldn't be considered liars based on your flawed logic you tried to pretend with. Yeah, if your that parent that thinks a HC can't get fired or may not leave for a higher paying job and are dumbfounded when it happens, then your son or daughter would be way better off not getting any advice from you. Thats just common sense at the end of the day. Head coaching positions are real world jobs, not prison sentences where they are doing community services and can't leave. :kubepalm:

 

[Texecutioner]

Fact is I'm not exactly thrilled with the idea of this for these kids/the game moving forward. I just ultimately can't hold their concerns totally against them in the risk/reward scenario of a superfluous bowl game that only looks to line the fat cat's pockets further. Not for the few whose draft stock is secure, who were leaving the next year anyway, and who those same fat cats aren't going to look out for if something terrible should happen in that game.

However unlikely that they get seriously injured I just get that it may feel too much to risk so close to getting that first potentially forever life-altering contract. For them and their families. I just can't hold it against them. It's their decision. I accept that.

So where does this end then? Two years from now some guy says he can't play in the conference championship game. Then some other guy says he can't play in the last 3 games. How and when can coaches and teams rely on the players they recruited to be there? You're talking about a really bad slippery slope that costs networks Millions of dollars after while. Just because you know they have money and won't go bankrupt over night doesn't make any of that right. HC's and other staff members end up losing jobs because of an extra loss or two because players don't want to be out there performing after while. I'm not even a huge college football fan due to all of the other awful politics involved with it, but I'd hate to see long rich history and the future of it go down in flames like college basketball did.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Oh, so now all of a sudden you see the fundamental flaw in your entire argument?

My argument is the same in that quote it's always been.

So much hostility, man. Everything ok at home? Sexual frustration? I know at a certain age a lot of guys start to have problems or all kinds of weird doubts about things. Just hope you don't pop or anything. Seems serious.

 

[Mollywhopper]

So where does this end then? Two years from now some guy says he can't play in the conference championship game. Then some other guy says he can't play in the last 3 games. How and when can coaches and teams rely on the players they recruited to be there? You're talking about a really bad slippery slope that costs networks Millions of dollars after while. Just because you know they have money and won't go bankrupt over night doesn't make any of that right. HC's and other staff members end up losing jobs because of an extra loss or two because players don't want to be out there performing after while. I'm not even a huge college football fan due to all of the other awful politics involved with it, but I'd hate to see long rich history and the future of it go down in flames like college basketball did.

My stance is like Saban, I don't know where it ends. And like him I know as of today, with McCaffrey and Fournette, I don't hold it against them.

But comparing meaningful games to frivolous cash grabs simply ain't where we're at today. And I'm ok with that.

Any bridges to cross will get crossed when we get there.

 

[Texecutioner]

My argument is the same in that quote it's always been.

So much hostility, man. Everything ok at home? Sexual frustration? I know at a certain age a lot of guys start to have problems or all kinds of weird doubts about things. Just hope you don't pop or anything. Seems serious.

Pretty obvious that you hit a dead end, because you just went way off topic and are just rambling now.

 

[Mollywhopper]

And I can understand why Fournette feels this way ...

7⃣ Leonard FournetteVerified account ‏@_fournette

Only person I owe something too.....

 

[Mollywhopper]

Pretty obvious that you hit a dead end, because you just went way off topic and are just rambling now.

I don't know why you aren't getting that I haven't once said coaches can't leave.

 

[Texecutioner]

I don't know why you aren't getting that I haven't once said coaches can't leave.

Your entire argument was centered around that to justify athletes leaving and you refused to acknowledge that they aren't the same entity to a program or the NCAA. I tried my best to avoid wasting time on such a stupid premise from the jump. And yes, you implied they can't leave or they are liars and deceivers completely ignoring reality and that they have a job market just like any other profession. So yeah, that was your argument whether you phrased it that way or not.

 

[Texecutioner]

And I can understand why Fournette feels this way ...

7⃣ Leonard FournetteVerified account ‏@_fournette

If he cared so much about that, then maybe he shouldn't be playing a sport where brain damage is so prevalent. Another useless point that addresses nothing in this equation. A college athlete with a kid. Never saw that before.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Your entire argument was centered around that to justify athletes leaving and you refused to acknowledge that they aren't the same entity to a program or the NCAA. I tried my best to avoid wasting time on such a stupid premise from the jump. And yes, you implied they can't leave or they are liars and deceivers completely ignoring reality.

Wasn't my entire argument. It was a point you jumped on with the Tom Herman comment.

Never said they were the same entity. Said they have their own justifiable futures to look out for all the same.

Didn't remotely imply they can't leave. Just said they make promises they never intend to keep and these kids don't need held to a different standard.

 

[Mollywhopper]

If he cared so much about that, then maybe he shouldn't be playing a sport where brain damage is so prevalent. Another useless point that addresses nothing in this equation. A college athlete with a kid. Never saw that before.

Wow, you've really gone past it now.

Would you tell no one to take on a profession with physical risk? Or maybe they don't care about their loved ones too?

And the point clearly wasn't just that he's a college athlete with a kid. You really are better than this. I've thought so.

 

[steelbtexan]

If he cared so much about that, then maybe he shouldn't be playing a sport where brain damage is so prevalent. Another useless point that addresses nothing in this equation. A college athlete with a kid. Never saw that before.

Aren't we a bit crusty tonight.

Seeing you 2 crusty.... go at it is the highlight of the night. (So far, wife is finishing Christmas shopping)

 

[Texecutioner]

Wasn't my entire argument. It was a point you jumped on with the Tom Herman comment.

Never said they were the same entity. Said they have their own justifiable futures to look out for all the same.

Didn't remotely imply they can't leave. Just said they make promises they never intend to keep and these kids don't need held to a different standard.

You'll argue to the end of time knowing you can't get out of the corner you painted yourself in. You've gone off topic already, and now you're just going in circles trying to re-explain something that you were actually told to drop from the beginning due to the failure of the comparison. I gave you that opportunity, and you rambled away being totally clueless that college coaches recruit every year making your criticism both uninformed and poorly thought out. I'm done wasting time listening to you comparing 21 year olds to grown men with established careers who have goals to get the best coaching job possible that you keep faking like you can't understand. Go find a wall.

 

[Texecutioner]

Aren't we a bit crusty tonight.

Seeing you 2 crusty.... go at it is the highlight of the night. (So far, wife is finishing Christmas shopping)

When you know someone is acting obtuse as hell just for the sake of arguing, sometimes you have to give them what they ask for. He begs for it daily and I usually let his bait float off with the current, but the attempt to put career HC's on the same pedastool as some flash in the pan student athlete was just to ironic. I let him get away with trolling me, and thats okay. He embarrassed himself in the process. I'm glad you got some entertainment at least.

PS: I sure did get lucky that my wife got most of the gift shopping done for both of us.

 

[Mollywhopper]

You'll argue to the end of time knowing you can't get out of the corner you painted yourself in. You've gone off topic already, and now you're just going in circles trying to re-explain something that you were actually told to drop from the beginning due to the failure of the comparison. I gave you that opportunity, and you rambled away being totally clueless that college coaches recruit every year making your criticism both uninformed and poorly thought out. I'm done wasting time listening to you comparing 21 year olds to grown men with established careers who have goals to get the best coaching job possible that you keep faking like you can't understand. Go find a wall.

Way to not really refute a thing I said in the post you quoted ... because, no corners painted.

Which, no sh*t, really.

You're frustration is actually pretty amusing, though. I've seen you do this thing before where you make someone's argument a giant ordeal it never was. It's gotta be taxing. Maybe breath a bit. Read the posts over if you like. Some warm milk. Little Metamucil perhaps. Get it all loose. Hell the posts will still be there later if you get a real spur for it again. Just woosa right now though.

You're gonna be ok, big guy.

 

[ObsiWan]

The school doesn't even allow them to coach for those games in many cases. They kick them the hell out.

Do the schools still pay them for that game in those situations? I would think so if the school is not allowing them to coach.

This point is irrelevant.
If Coach X is wooed by Big State U to leave Podunk College, then I would bet my retirement check that Coach X gets covered by Big State U for any loss of salary he missed out on by skipping the minor bowl game Podunk College got invited to so he could get started rebuilding the program at Big State U.

 

[ObsiWan]

So where does this end then? Two years from now some guy says he can't play in the conference championship game. Then some other guy says he can't play in the last 3 games. How and when can coaches and teams rely on the players they recruited to be there? You're talking about a really bad slippery slope that costs networks Millions of dollars after while. Just because you know they have money and won't go bankrupt over night doesn't make any of that right. HC's and other staff members end up losing jobs because of an extra loss or two because players don't want to be out there performing after while. I'm not even a huge college football fan due to all of the other awful politics involved with it, but I'd hate to see long rich history and the future of it go down in flames like college basketball did.

Soooo you want a young man to risk his future, for a meaningless bowl game, so the networks and their sponsors and the NCAA can keep making millions (which the young man gets NONE of by the way) and the kid gets "a degree" that may or may not turn into a paying job.

Said player knows (or must feel pretty strongly) that his NFL draft status will translate into cash - more than most of us will make - but that "degree" you keep going on about... there's no guarantee it will turn into a job.

 

[gs27]

LSU was 2-2 after the Auburn game and Stanford was 3-2 after the Washington St game. At those points both teams were out of the playoff picture. Are the Fournette and McCaffrey apologists also accepting of these players quitting on their teams at that point in the season? I keep hearing MEANINGLESS bowl games. Stanford's bowl against NC and LSUs bowl against Louisville are just as important as any game since their 2nd loss and more important than all but rivalry games.

If LSU loses with Fournette out and the AP doesn't rank them in the top 25 next season because they finished the season 8-5 with losses in their only two non-conference power 5 games, then I'm all good with it.

 

[gs27]

And I can understand why Fournette feels this way ...

7⃣ Leonard FournetteVerified account ‏@_fournette

I don't give a **** about anyone but me and my kid. Great attitude to have. Poor kid has to ride in a king ranch. Man, I got a lot of stuff to tie up before I go on vacation till after the 1st of the year, but my kids are on break and they are the only ones I owe anything to. **** it I'm going home. Plus if I stress to much I increase my chance of having a heart attack, then what will my wife and kids do?

 

[JB]

These guys are going about it wrong. Announcing early that they were gonna sit is just ready made drama. Football purists are going to question their love of the game. It MAY affect their draft stock. What good can come out of announcing something like this? They should have just sustained a "groin injury" or an "ankle sprain" to keep them out of the game and no one would raise an eyebrow. This is going to haunt them tho.