What are we gonna do with Banks & Ragone?

[U4ikrob]

What I find so puzzling is why everyone is so eager to trade Ragone right now. Even if the Texans had the best offensive line in the league, Carr is always one hit away from being out for the season. Anyone who has watched the NFL for more than a couple of games knows that backup QB's are extremely valuable.

What would happen if the Texans trade Ragone and then Carr goes down with an injury? And then Banks? With a playoff spot on the line? Remember how bad Ragone looked his rookie year? That would be what Symons would look like this year.

I say keep Ragone at least until he becomes a restricted free agent. Then we can find out how much interest other teams have in him and if he gets a huge offer we could get a first rounder for him.

As I stated at the beginning of this topic when I suggested the trade idea - "Strike while the iron is hot" is the reasoning. He has a good name, has put up starting quality stats for a QB against NFL level of talent. That's starting quality enough for me and much better than any - unproven college talent out there. IMO The NFLE experience has very little gameplay differences than the NFL - only the level of talent and competition. He's shown his skillz, MVP talent and thus why I am hot to trade him while he is a hot commodity.

Honestly I dont see why fans and folks around here devalue him so much and think he's not even worth the third rounder he was originally picked for. I have a hard time rationalizing that sense of value. To me hes shown alot better valeu than that and will only improve given playtime. Unfortuantely without trading him elsewhere - I dont think he will get it anytime soon. Banks is our #2 - expereinced, knows the playbook and is low cost value. A #2 QB thru and thru. He's had mutlitple chances to start for other teams. Ragone - needs to go elsewhere to get those same chances for himself is my point. - I think we could get value out of the deal, help him and help our team too.

As for CArr goign down and insurance policies - We have banks, and Symons and Mock and the new guy too. Plenty of depth and if we are down to our 3rd QB and going to the playoffs - and your expecting that 3rd string guy to lead the team to the playoffs - your fooling yourself IMO. He's there as insurance in case we need to get thru a game. A quick fix - not a long term one IMO. IF were down to our 3rd QB because the other 2 are injured - I think i'm pointing my fingers at other places [O-line] for blame than a 3rd string QB.

 

[ojthecat]

Honestly I dont see why fans and folks around here devalue him so much and think he's not even worth the third rounder he was originally picked for. I have a hard time rationalizing those folks sense of value

I would agree that his value is up from the 3rd where we selected him. The only question to his value is with the length of his contract. Teams would be relcutant to pay a first unless they know that a deal could be reached for x numbers of years. That said I beleive that his best value to the Texans is as a number 2 for Carr. Understanding that you can never have enough quality QB's

 

[keyfro]

i think a lot of ya'll are getting too far ahead here...remember last year there was the same talk about rohan davey who led berlin to a world bowl championship and nfle mvp...where is he now...still in new england and he might not even be the #2 QB on the depth chart with them bringing in flutie i believe...i believe the partiots were willing to listen to offers for him but the highest was a 5th round pick...so don't get too excited

 

[dalemurphy]

i think a lot of ya'll are getting too far ahead here...remember last year there was the same talk about rohan davey who led berlin to a world bowl championship and nfle mvp...where is he now...still in new england and he might not even be the #2 QB on the depth chart with them bringing in flutie i believe...i believe the partiots were willing to listen to offers for him but the highest was a 5th round pick...so don't get too excited

Keyfro's right. As Texan fans we should be very encouraged by Ragone's play. However, teams don't trade away high draft picks for QBs with zero successful experience in the NFL. I think he'll eventually prove to be valuable to us. At some point he's going to play and I think he'll do very well. No way we get anything above a 3rd round pick for him until then, though.

 

[U4ikrob]

DaleMurphy - Honestly man- what does it take to impress you ?? Sheesh - The guy wins MVP has a 97.5 passer rating and thru 13 tds - to only 2 picks out of 245 attempts. David Carr has not even come close to putting up comparable numbers, yet you thik this guy still isnt worth more than the third rounder we picked him with???

My hunch is he will have to go to another team before you see that happen - he will never see starting time here if at all possible. Banks is our backup and will remain so for a while IMO. He's good at that role and has no trade appeal [See off-season]. Ragone on the other hand I think has the starter qualities and is young enough and would be a good financial signign by any team as he's not in RFA until next year. But if we wait too long [06] we loose him and he can just leave go wherever he wants to play. His numbers speak for themselves now and are on display for all teams and GM's to see. We wil lsee if the phone starts ringing who was right and wrong just like the O-line debates and other topics on the board.

It's just part of the juices flowing during the off-season that makes the Real thing that much fun.

I found this part of the Chronicle article on him interesting

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3210896

Hold the one-liners
If you're laughing, stop. If you're about to make level-of-competition wisecracks, save them. If you think NFL Europe is a joke, consider some of its alumni.

Super Bowl quarterbacks Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson and Jake Delhomme cut their teeth in NFL Europe. Quarterback Jon Kitna, receivers Matthew Hatchette and Dane Looker and return specialist Dante Hall are former NFL Europe stars.

"Coming over here, I knew I wasn't playing the highest NFL-caliber (competition), but that wasn't a big concern for me," said Ragone, speaking by phone from Germany. "It was more about being able to prove to myself that I could lead a team to win.

"It's not the Super Bowl, but any time you're playing for a championship, I don't care if it's pool, golf or tennis, it can only help you down the road."

...............At some point, Texans general manager Charley Casserly will get a call from another GM hoping to uncover the next Warner, Johnson or Delhomme. Or teams could just wait. Ragone will be a restricted free agent after this season and an unrestricted free agent after 2006.

 

[Texas_Thrill]

Texans I"m wondering with Ragone having such a good season there in NFLE and possibly holding the #2 job this season if some teams might consider him a future starter in the league. Obviously not with us so what kind of pick do you guys think we could get for him?

 

[TexanExile]

I'm just not inclined to deal a QB away as soon as he proves he can contribute something. I agree with the comparison to Rohan Davey, by the way. The Texans wouldn't get much for Ragone based on his minor-league season performance, even though it was great. But I think he's come a long way and should challenge for the #2 job. If so, that's fantastic.

Dave Ragone is worth more to the Texans as a backup QB right now than as tradebait--especially considering the tendency of the entrenched starter to be treated like a pinata throughout the season.

 

[bingbing]

He's in a league that has 6 teams and Blitzing is illeagal. Sorry but Ragone inst even a decent backup. The line up will be be:

Carr
Banks
Parsons

The Coaching staff is high on Preston Parsons. He's looked really good in practice and has the prototypical QB body and a serious gun for an arm. Wish the Seahawks wouldhave picked him up. Hey, wanna trade? you can have Seneca Wallace!

He just broke nearly every record in NFLE history putting up better #'s than Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, and Jake Delhomme....hmmmm.....haven't all three of those QB's PLAYED IN THE SUPER BOWL?????? You're right though, obviously he is a scrub if he had better success than 3 Super Bowl QB's.

 

[BornOrange]

There are only three different levels of offers--low, mid and high. You don't get a right of first refusal without making one of those three.

The collective bargaining agreement specifies four levels.

The dollar figures have changed over the years, but there haven't been any amendments to change the section on restricted free agents.

If a team makes the lowest qualifying offer and it isn't 110% of the prior contract, the team maintains right of first refusal but doesn't get any compensation if they don't match another team's offer.

Collective Bargaining Agreement

Section 2. Restricted Free Agents:

(a) Any Veteran player with three or more Accrued Seasons, but less than five Accrued Seasons (or less than four Accrued Seasons in any Capped Year), shall, at the expiration of his last Player Contract during such period, become a Restricted Free Agent. Any such player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any such player, subject to the restrictions set forth in this Article.

(b) In order to receive the following specified Rights of First Refusal and/or Draft Choice Compensation with respect to a Restricted Free Agent, the Prior Club of a Restricted Free Agent must tender the player a Qualifying Offer on or before the first date of the Restricted Free Agent Signing Period, as follows:

(i) For Restricted Free Agents with three Accrued Seasons:

(1) Right of First Refusal: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least $275,000;

(2) Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at Player’s Original Draft Round: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $275,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged (this subsection is subject to the rules of subsection (c) below);

(3) Right of First Refusal and One First Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $600,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged;

(4) Right of First Refusal, One First Round Draft Selection, and One Third Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $800,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged;

(ii) For Restricted Free Agents with four Accrued Seasons (in Uncapped Years):

(1) Right of First Refusal: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least $325,000;

(2) Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at Player’s Original Draft Round: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $325,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged (this subsection is subject to the rules of subsection (c) below);

(3) Right of First Refusal and One First Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $700,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged; and

(4) Right of First Refusal, One First Round Draft Selection, and One Third Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $900,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

He just broke nearly every record in NFLE history putting up better #'s than Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, and Jake Delhomme....hmmmm.....haven't all three of those QB's PLAYED IN THE SUPER BOWL?????? You're right though, obviously he is a scrub if he had better success than 3 Super Bowl QB's.

Those guys all had to take some funky routes to get to the Superbowl. Trent Green has a severe injury or Warner would have been stuck behind him. Delhomme had sign with another organization and then wait for Rodney Peete to suck. Brad Johnson had every Qb in the world play before him in Minnesota and then went to Tampa Bay.

Basically, dominating the world league is like a pitcher in baseball dominating AAA, it is a good sign, but by no means a signal that he is a good Qb. Ron Powlus played very well in world league, so did the aforementioned Rohan Davey. I am sure the list is much longer of guys who played really well in NFLe than were never heard from than the huge success stories.

 

[bingbing]

Those guys all had to take some funky routes to get to the Superbowl. Trent Green has a severe injury or Warner would have been stuck behind him. Delhomme had sign with another organization and then wait for Rodney Peete to suck. Brad Johnson had every Qb in the world play before him in Minnesota and then went to Tampa Bay.

Basically, dominating the world league is like a pitcher in baseball dominating AAA, it is a good sign, but by no means a signal that he is a good Qb. Ron Powlus played very well in world league, so did the aforementioned Rohan Davey. I am sure the list is much longer of guys who played really well in NFLe than were never heard from than the huge success stories.

I wasn't saying he was gonna win a Super Bowl, but it is a fact that he has had a better season than all of the stars that have come out of NFLE.

Injuries happen, and Carr is not exactly the best protected QB in the league with that O-Line, so you never know, Ragone may get his chance to play some time this season and if he plays well then the Texans will really be able to make a trade and get a high pick, or they can hold on to him and have confidence in their depth at the most important position.

 

[TexansNeedRBin05]

I wasn't saying he was gonna win a Super Bowl, but it is a fact that he has had a better season than all of the stars that have come out of NFLE.

Injuries happen, and Carr is not exactly the best protected QB in the league with that O-Line, so you never know, Ragone may get his chance to play some time this season and if he plays well then the Texans will really be able to make a trade and get a high pick, or they can hold on to him and have confidence in their depth at the most important position.

Id rather us be bad if Carr gets hurt for more than 3 games. Means a higher and better chance in 06!

 

[Beaverhunter]

Carr hasn't shown he is the man for sure and Ragone has lots of heart let them battle it out in camp and may the best man win. Everybody else is tradeable or can be released what we need to let these guys know is nothing is for sure either play like a winner or get down the road and that should mean everybody no sacred cows. :brickwall

 

[hellojohnnyboi]

Honestly this is what i think the Texans quaterback situation will look like...

Opening Day
David Carr
Dave Ragone
BJ Symons
Preston Parsons

What I think will happen is....get rid of Tony Banks(trade, waive)...I think that of course will give Dave Ragon the green light to back up Carr full time...BJ Symons will bump up on to the active roster mainly because he is a Texas hero(went to the same Jr. High that I just graduated from...im in 9th grade) and i think Preston Parsons will move onto the PS or the Texans will find an excuse to put him on the IR.

Tell me what y'all think of this?

 

[infantrycak]

What I think will happen is....get rid of Tony Banks(trade, waive)...

They may not be infallible, but folks need to read the tea leaves. The Texans just resigned Banks to a two year deal. That in and of itself means nothing as the contract isn't guaranteed. BUT, they gave him an $800k signing bonus. Cut him now and they take an $800k hit on the cap for having him attend 5 weeks of mini-camp. If the Texans had any thought of not keeping Banks this year they would have made his contract more salary adn less signing bonus. Banks will be in Houston standing on the sideline this season.

 

[edo783]

They may not be infallible, but folks need to read the tea leaves. The Texans just resigned Banks to a two year deal. That in and of itself means nothing as the contract isn't guaranteed. BUT, they gave him an $800k signing bonus. Cut him now and they take an $800k hit on the cap for having him attend 5 weeks of mini-camp. If the Texans had any thought of not keeping Banks this year they would have made his contract more salary adn less signing bonus. Banks will be in Houston standing on the sideline this season.

And for me, that's a comforting thought. We need to have Tony around at least one more year, probably 2, if for nothing else but to see how things play out with Rags. If by chance we trade him this season or the next off season, there isn't anyone besides Tony on the staff with the experience that I would trust a game to. We have a couple of PROSPECTS, but no one that I would feel even reasonably comfortable with as a back up.

 

[U4ikrob]

Honestly this is what i think the Texans quaterback situation will look like...

Opening Day
David Carr
Dave Ragone
BJ Symons
Preston Parsons

What I think will happen is....get rid of Tony Banks(trade, waive)...I think that of course will give Dave Ragon the green light to back up Carr full time...BJ Symons will bump up on to the active roster mainly because he is a Texas hero(went to the same Jr. High that I just graduated from...im in 9th grade) and i think Preston Parsons will move onto the PS or the Texans will find an excuse to put him on the IR.

Tell me what y'all think of this?

Heya Johnny,

Covered this one above too and would agree with the last 2 posters.

Banks is our #2 QB - hands down. No other guy on the roster has the experience or grasp of the offense better than him outside of Carr and Bank has been signed thru next year also. They haev full confidence in Tony going in if David goes down. While RAgone has done an outstanding job this year in NFLE - he's oru 3rd QB on the chart and will remain there unless traded this year.
Symons may be cut or put on IR unless Ragone is traded. Talking of Texas heroes - how about Chance Mock?? Certainly think he might make the Practice Squad this year. I think him and Preston will be cut before camp and one will be added to the PS.

IMO Ragone's best bet is to get to a team he can compete for the #2 job on. That wont be here with the Texans for at least a few more years IMO. Banks is not that great, but he's inexpensive, reliable and knowledgeable of our offense enough to step in and play at anytime for at least a few more years.

Ragone will be up for contract next year as an RFA or will become an FA in the year following. IMO our best bet is to trade him now or next year before he becomes a street FA and can try-out with any team.

 

[MojoMan]

Ragone will be up for contract next year as an RFA or will become an FA in the year following. IMO our best bet is to trade him now or next year before he becomes a street FA and can try-out with any team.

In order for the Texans to make a good trade, Ragone is going to need to play at least a little in some real games. This may be a good reason to place Ragone as number two, even if Banks appears to be the better overall quarterback. Ragone has to show that he can do it at the NFL level.

Aside from the marketing considerations for trading Ragone, I agree that Banks appears to be the better overall quarterback at this point. We need to keep Banks on the roster in case Ragone does not show that he is good enough to play in the NFL. Despite Ragone's excellent showing in the NFLEL, he still has a lot to prove at the NFL level.

 

[Vinny]

We aren't going to trade Ragone this year...or Banks. This is one of the more stable positions on our team. We have worked for years to get to this point.