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Welcome to Houston Marcus Cannon

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
I don't know if you give a crap about this or not. But, someone might. The Texans lost the equivalent of a late 5th round pick in draft points (31). About pick #150 if Caserio is the moving around the board type. Last year's 15th pich was the Giants OG Shane Lemieux. Started about 9 games. A guy who may or may not develop into a full time starter.

But, Lemieux may or may not develop while counting $700k against the cap. He'll make less than $4 million over the 4 years on his contract. Cannon will make $7 million for one season. A season that will see the Texans go nowhere. In my not so humble opinion. Bill O'Brien would make this move in a heartbeat. Tossing away draft capital for one year guys meant nothing to him.

How is Nick Caserio different? So far, we haven't seen a difference. The one caveat is that (maybe) Easterby put the screws on Nick. Maybe, Nick wouldn't make this deal if left to his own devices? Maybe he doesn't squander draft value and cap $$$ on has been vets, if the aren't Easterby's buds. Maybe?

But right now, this looks lile the kind of short-sighted move O'Brien would make. IMNSHO.
OB did always say that he was hand in hand with the Pastor on all of those deals. If things are still looking the same, what's the common denominator?
 

pirbroke

Veteran
Bla Bla all this about to be cut crap. If he was cut it’s his choice where he goes. If you really want that player you trade for him. Texans did not give up a lot for this right. And they assured themselves that he will be a Texan. Great job IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

michaelm

vox nihili
I don't know if you give a crap about this or not. But, someone might. The Texans lost the equivalent of a late 5th round pick in draft points (31). About pick #150 if Caserio is the moving around the board type. Last year's 15th pich was the Giants OG Shane Lemieux. Started about 9 games. A guy who may or may not develop into a full time starter.

But, Lemieux may or may not develop while counting $700k against the cap. He'll make less than $4 million over the 4 years on his contract. Cannon will make $7 million for one season. A season that will see the Texans go nowhere. In my not so humble opinion. Bill O'Brien would make this move in a heartbeat. Tossing away draft capital for one year guys meant nothing to him.

How is Nick Caserio different? So far, we haven't seen a difference. The one caveat is that (maybe) Easterby put the screws on Nick. Maybe, Nick wouldn't make this deal if left to his own devices? Maybe he doesn't squander draft value and cap $$$ on has been vets, if the aren't Easterby's buds. Maybe?

But right now, this looks lile the kind of short-sighted move O'Brien would make. IMNSHO.
Caserio didn't give up that draft pick, he dropped down the equivalent of 31 points.

What are the odds that a #150 pick will be more successful than a #181 pick? I don't know the answer, but that's the comparison to make (I'm using pick 181 to illustrate the point, the actual value is probably different).

And good on the Giants, but I'm not sure their outcome is representative of what to expect at that draft position.


But none of that was my original point at all. You moved the target yet again
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don't know if you give a crap about this or not. But, someone might. The Texans lost the equivalent of a late 5th round pick in draft points (31). About pick #150 if Caserio is the moving around the board type. Last year's 15th pich was the Giants OG Shane Lemieux. Started about 9 games. A guy who may or may not develop into a full time starter.

But, Lemieux may or may not develop while counting $700k against the cap. He'll make less than $4 million over the 4 years on his contract. Cannon will make $7 million for one season. A season that will see the Texans go nowhere. In my not so humble opinion. Bill O'Brien would make this move in a heartbeat. Tossing away draft capital for one year guys meant nothing to him.

How is Nick Caserio different? So far, we haven't seen a difference. The one caveat is that (maybe) Easterby put the screws on Nick. Maybe, Nick wouldn't make this deal if left to his own devices? Maybe he doesn't squander draft value and cap $$$ on has been vets, if the aren't Easterby's buds. Maybe?

But right now, this looks lile the kind of short-sighted move O'Brien would make. IMNSHO.
All of this over a pick swap. I bet if I looked hard enough that I could find a successful player drafted at the spot the Texans are now going to be drafting in the 5th rd. I'm hoping they use the 4th/5th rd picks to move back into the 3rd and find a guy that can start for them. A CB and a S or and edge would be a great start.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
The picks reported to be traded to New England in the Cannon deal were incorrect. These are the actual picks involved.

Instead of the two teams swapping picks in the fourth, fifth and sixth rounds of this year’s draft, the following selections have exchanged hands alongside the veteran lineman:

  • New England gets 4-122 and 6-187
  • Houston gets 5-158 and 6-194, plus Marcus Cannon
This trade just went from dumb to dumber.

From the same article:

Getting the second selection in the fifth round for a player who was expected to get cut anyway is certainly a positive for New England, especially when using the Trent Brown trade as comparison: acquiring Brown, who is younger than Cannon and a candidate to take over his job as the Patriots’ right tackle, cost the team a fifth-round pick next year. Oh, and it got a seventh-rounder back in return.

While the eventual impact of the players, draft picks and monetary savings involved cannot be properly assessed until further down the line, both of those trades turned out very favorably from New England’s point of view.
Very favorably from New England's point of view? No kidding.
 
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Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Do you know for a fact that Cannon would've been a Texan without the pick swap?
I don't know it for a fact. I just know that he would have signed with his best buddy Jack for the same money he got as a Patriot. Who else was going top offer a starting job to a 33 year old, oft injured RT who hadn't played since 2019? Can we please get real?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I don't know it for a fact. I just know that he would have signed with his best buddy Jack for the same money he got as a Patriot. Who else was going top offer a starting job to a 33 year old, oft injured RT who hadn't played since 2019? Can we please get real?
So you dont know.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Who else was going top offer a starting job to a 33 year old, oft injured
Is he getting top dollar?

Just looked at sport trac contract wise, $6.9M puts him at 9th highest paid RT. However, he's only getting $6M in real money which drops him down to 12th on that same list (I know it doesn't work that way).

But yep, for all intents & purposes top dollar. Still, I can't imagine him not getting $6M even on a 1 year deal.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Is he getting top dollar?

Just looked at sport trac contract wise, $6.9M puts him at 9th highest paid RT. However, he's only getting $6M in real money which drops him down to 12th on that same list (I know it doesn't work that way).

But yep, for all intents & purposes top dollar. Still, I can't imagine him not getting $6M even on a 1 year deal.
Spot on post, Lucky was just trying to get his narrative out there. (Again)

He sat out last yr and wasn't oft injured. This could actually be a good thing in terms of being able to preserve his body for next season. (Less wear and tear.)

Atleast he's been able to be healthy enough to be a starter on winning SB's teams.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Spot on post, Lucky was just trying to get his narrative out there. (Again)

He sat out last yr and wasn't oft injured. This could actually be a good thing in terms of being able to preserve his body for next season. (Less wear and tear.)

Atleast he's been able to be healthy enough to be a starter on winning SB's teams.
Marcus Cannon has not been healthy since 2017.
He missed most of 2017.
His snap count in 2018 and 2019 were 4th and 5th among the five starters.

So yeah, he's qualified as "often injured".

 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
So you dont know.
This is my last preseason post about Marcus Cannon. Because it's really not about Marcus Cannon.

The narrative is that Cannon had to be traded for. Due to his status on the free agent market could price the Texans out of his market. I guess Cannon would be pretty upset at missing his big payday, right?

“It was bittersweet because I have a lot of friends there. I have a lot of memories there,” Cannon told reporters, including the Houston Chronicle. “That was the bitter part, but the sweet part is that I’m playing in Texas again. I don’t have any woes about playing here.

“There’s only positives. It’s a change from where I was, but I’m ready to attack it, and I’m ready to do the best I can for this organization.”

Cannon is ready to take a whatever-they-ask approach with the Texans, as he always did in Foxborough.

“I don’t know what my role is going to be,” Cannon said. “I’ve met the offensive line coach (James Campen). I’ve met the head coach (David Culley). I’ve met everybody. I went down there last week and met everybody, and I do not know what I’ll be playing. I don’t know how much I’ll be playing. I don’t know what position I’ll be playing, but all I know is I’m on the team right now, and I have the chance to show how good I am and show them they can use me. Wherever they want to use me, I’m ready to play. I did the same thing in New England.

“I like playing right tackle. That was fun. I got into a really good rhythm. I like playing guard, on the right side playing guard. I don’t really have a super favorite position. I’m just happy to be out there. I’ll play any position they want me to play. I’ll put in the time to get as good as I can at whatever position it is. I’m just happy to be a Texan.”
"Only positives". "Wherever they want to use me, I’m ready to play." "I’m just happy to be a Texan.”

I'm surprised. Cannon doesn't sound like a guy upset about missing one last big payday in free agency. Which he surely would have been if Nick the Quick (to trade draft picks away) had not made the brilliant move to trade with the Patriots. Right?

I'm just confused about the unwavering support of Caserio, regardless of the facts. Do you have that much confidence in Kyle McNair's decision making? Or just trusting that his handler (Captain Jack Easterby) will lead Kyle in the right direction?

I'm not trashing every move Caserio makes. When he makes a good one, I've acknowleded it. And I don't have a clue if Nick can build this team into a winner. Or not. In that regard, I'm like everyone else. I just admit it.

But trading for Cannon was stupid and completely unnecessary. Just like trading for the QB that he cut before ever seeing the guy take a snap. And the people who refuse to admit that are total Caserio homers. How Caserio obtained this kind of fan adulation is puzzling. Other than the fact that Nick Caserio is not Bill O'Brien.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The narrative is that Cannon had to be traded for.
I know this isn't about me... I don't know that he needed to be traded for. I don't know that I heard that argument.

Steelbtexan's argument was that the pick swap was non consequential & being blown out of proportion. I agree (please don't tell steelbtexan).

I asked does anyone think he'd have gotten less than $6M. Matt Cieler got a $7M/yr deal from the Chargers. Kendall Lamm (yes, that Kendall Lamm) is getting $3M/yr from Pittsburgh.

Now we know Feiler is going to start in LA. Can't imagine Lamm is going to start for $3M....

So where would Cannon fit on that scale.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Steelbtexan's argument was that the pick swap was non consequential & being blown out of proportion. I agree
We don't know that. Not until these picks play out.

But, let's assume these moves to trade for players about to be cut are non-consequential. What about the next time Caserio does it? Or the next time? Eventually, a pick is going to bite the Texans in the arse. For no reason. It's bad practice and makes Caserio look like the rookie GM he is. Caserio was supposed to be groomed for this. He looks like a novice on moves like this.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
I asked does anyone think he'd have gotten less than $6M.
Caserio should have let Cannon hit the free agent market and found out. Feiler is 28 and has started 12 more games over the past 3 seasons. Of course, he's going to get more $$$. So yeah, Caserio wasted cap space & draft picks. It's Nick's calling cards thus far in his brief GM tenure.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This is my last preseason post about Marcus Cannon. Because it's really not about Marcus Cannon.

The narrative is that Cannon had to be traded for. Due to his status on the free agent market could price the Texans out of his market. I guess Cannon would be pretty upset at missing his big payday, right?




"Only positives". "Wherever they want to use me, I’m ready to play." "I’m just happy to be a Texan.”

I'm surprised. Cannon doesn't sound like a guy upset about missing one last big payday in free agency. Which he surely would have been if Nick the Quick (to trade draft picks away) had not made the brilliant move to trade with the Patriots. Right?

I'm just confused about the unwavering support of Caserio, regardless of the facts. Do you have that much confidence in Kyle McNair's decision making? Or just trusting that his handler (Captain Jack Easterby) will lead Kyle in the right direction?

I'm not trashing every move Caserio makes. When he makes a good one, I've acknowleded it. And I don't have a clue if Nick can build this team into a winner. Or not. In that regard, I'm like everyone else. I just admit it.

But trading for Cannon was stupid and completely unnecessary. Just like trading for the QB that he cut before ever seeing the guy take a snap. And the people who refuse to admit that are total Caserio homers. How Caserio obtained this kind of fan adulation is puzzling. Other than the fact that Nick Caserio is not Bill O'Brien.
My point is

1. You dont know
2. If doing a pick swap in the 4th rd to get the guy Caserio wanted is the worst move Caserio makes then the Texans org is in good shape.
3. If trading a 6th rd pick for a QB that's started games in the NFL to ensure you've got depth at the QB position is the 2nd worst decision Caserio makes, then the Texans have upgraded the GM position and See #2 for my reply.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
My point is

1. You dont know
2. If doing a pick swap in the 4th rd to get the guy Caserio wanted is the worst move Caserio makes then the Texans org is in good shape.
3. If trading a 6th rd pick for a QB that's started games in the NFL to ensure you've got depth at the QB position is the 2nd worst decision Caserio makes, then the Texans have upgraded the GM position and See #2 for my reply.
They aren't the worst moves. Those were extending contracts into future years in order to sign special teamers. But these were not good moves and indicate Caserio doesn't understand how to acquire players as cheaply as possible.

The big decisions come when Caserio has premium draft choices and a big chunk of cap room. If he doesn't get the little things right, how can you have confidence he gets the big things right?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Caserio was supposed to be groomed for this. He looks like a novice on moves like this.
Like you said, we'll have to see how it plays out.

Would you have rathered we did not swap picks & paid Kendall Lamm $3M?

Would you rather we continue with the status QUO, Tytus Howard at RT?

Personally I liked Tytus at RT, but I'd love to see him at LG. In that scenario I would have liked to see Sharping at RT.

But... still that's variations of the status QUO. & we don't know why we couldn't run the ball. On the one hand we can say the coaching was that bad.

On the other hand, as a staff coming in, being focused on a totally different team, I'm not going to come in thinking I've got the mojo to go from last to first with a bunch of guys I don't know.

& Kendall Lamm is jag I don't know. Where Marcus Cannon may be jag, I know him.


What about the next time Caserio does it? Or the next time?
Next time, or the time after is a different story.

First it starts from your frame of mind. I don't think Caserio is approaching 2021 as a wasted season. Neither is David Culley. With that in mind, I've got limited resources to turn the 3rd worse team in the league into a competitive squad I can build on in 2022 & 2023.

Next time the situation will be different, but I like the way NE worked the draft in previous years. Lot's of traded to get the players they want & collecting future picks.

So yes. If, like this year, there doesn't appear to be an eye on the future, I'd be upset.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Would you have rathered we did not swap picks & paid Kendall Lamm $3M?
I think I was pretty clear when the trade happened. Let the Pats cut Cannon, then sign him as a free agent for less than the $7 million on his Pats contract. Less money spent, no draft picks dealt.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
They aren't the worst moves. Those were extending contracts into future years in order to sign special teamers. But these were not good moves and indicate Caserio doesn't understand how to acquire players as cheaply as possible.

The big decisions come when Caserio has premium draft choices and a big chunk of cap room. If he doesn't get the little things right, how can you have confidence he gets the big things right?
If restructuring all pro guys like Tunsil and a 1,000 yd WR in Cooks is the worst thing Caserio does then the Texans are in good shape. I didn't like re-structuring of Cunningham, (They must like him more than I do) or DJ. I wouldn't have brought DJ back but I can understand why Caserio did this. I also wouldn't have restructured Lawson. The restructuring of Mercilus is supposed to make it easier to get out of his contract after this yr, according to the guys at 6110.

With all of the 1-2 yr deals the Texans should be in good cap shape after this yr.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
To keep count, the Texans spent the equivalence of the 146th pick in next year draft plus $1.3M+ in roster bonus to acquire Cannon.


His prorated pay for the first 6 games was nearly $1.7M


That's a total of $3M plus the pick for what?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
To keep count, the Texans spent the equivalence of the 146th pick in next year draft plus $1.3M+ in roster bonus to acquire Cannon.


His prorated pay for the first 6 games was nearly $1.7M


That's a total of $3M plus the pick for what?
If we had only known he was going to hurt his back.

Can you please give me tomorrow nights winning loto numbers since there's no doubting your Back to the Future abilities?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
If we had only known he was going to hurt his back.

Can you please give me tomorrow nights winning loto numbers since there's no doubting your Back to the Future abilities?
Well, I did tell you that the problem with signing Cannon is his injury history and he's not getting any younger.
What would you do when you know that it's the case?

I think you promised me that with a year out, Cannon would be healthy and good to go, didn't you?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Well, I did tell you that the problem with signing Cannon is his injury history and he's not getting any younger.
What would you do when you know that it's the case?

I think you promised me that with a year out, Cannon would be healthy and good to go, didn't you?
That would be Doc that said his knee would most likely not be a problem. (It wasn't) There was no way to know his back was going to go out.

This is like saying, you've got a case of the sniffles, so you're going to get E-D.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
2011 (rookie season): Missed first 10 games recovering from Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma
2012: No missed games
2013: Missed 2 games (no details on injury)
2014: No missed games
2015: Missed 4 games w/ toe injury
2016: Missed 1 game w/ lingering toe injury
2017: Missed 9 games w/ ankle injury (went on IR to end season)
2018: Missed 3 games (1 w/ calf injury and 2 w/ head injury)
2019: Missed 1 game w/ shoulder injury
2020: Opted out of season for COVID reasons as a Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma survivor

Not sure how a history of missing 20 games over 8 seasons with most related to various lower leg injuries is a told-told-you-so moment for the guy having a bad back this season, but OK.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
That would be Doc that said his knee would most likely not be a problem. (It wasn't) There was no way to know his back was going to go out.

This is like saying, you've got a case of the sniffles, so you're going to get E-D.
What do you get when you drive an old car that is known to have odd problem from time to time?

Just because the motor is still running doesn't mean that other parts can't break down.

Nick Caserio paid too much for an old car with no real back up plan.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
2011 (rookie season): Missed first 10 games recovering from Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma
2012: No missed games
2013: Missed 2 games (no details on injury)
2014: No missed games
2015: Missed 4 games w/ toe injury
2016: Missed 1 game w/ lingering toe injury
2017: Missed 9 games w/ ankle injury (went on IR to end season)
2018: Missed 3 games (1 w/ calf injury and 2 w/ head injury)
2019: Missed 1 game w/ shoulder injury
2020: Opted out of season for COVID reasons as a Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma survivor

Not sure how a history of missing 20 games over 8 seasons with most related to various lower leg injuries is a told-told-you-so moment for the guy having a bad back this season, but OK.
When he signed with the Texans, Ephraim Salam was 2 years younger and had more games under his belt in 8 years.
He had 3 years where he played in all 16 games.
Cannon only had one such season (and that was when he was a second year backup).

Cannon also chose to sit out 2020, like you noted, because he was a cancer survivor who had recovered before he was drafted.
(If anything, that should be a red flag not to bring him in.)

Cannon didn't even reported to the Patriots as he was traded.
Did Belichik know something that Caserio didn't?
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
When he signed with the Texans, Ephraim Salam was 2 years younger and had more games under his belt in 8 years.
He had 3 years where he played in all 16 games.
Cannon only had one such season (and that was when he was a second year backup).

Cannon also chose to sit out 2020, like you noted, because he was a cancer survivor who had recovered before he was drafted.
(If anything, that should be a red flag not to bring him in.)

Cannon didn't even reported to the Patriots as he was traded.
Did Belichik know something that Caserio didn't?
So Belichick knew that Cannon was going to have a bad back this season even though he has never had any injury history with his back? Even though he hadn't seen him play in a year and the year before that he missed one game with a bum shoulder. And as such he got over on the Texans with that trade? OK...

As to the rest of your post, you again have thrown out a bunch of data to argue a point that wasn't being made. I already stated and showed his injury history. No one was disputing that. What is being called into question is how one could know ahead of time that he was going to have a bad back simply because he has had a major ankle injury and toe injury. Because your "I told you so" crowing smacks of some amazing prognostication.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
So Belichick knew that Cannon was going to have a bad back this season even though he has never had any injury history with his back? Even though he hadn't seen him play in a year and the year before that he missed one game with a bum shoulder. And as such he got over on the Texans with that trade? OK...

As to the rest of your post, you again have thrown out a bunch of data to argue a point that wasn't being made. I already stated and showed his injury history. No one was disputing that. What is being called into question is how one could know ahead of time that he was going to have a bad back simply because he has had a major ankle injury and toe injury. Because your "I told you so" crowing smacks of some amazing prognostication.
Belichik should know that he has an old car.
Why do you think he gave him (Cannon) up so easily?

And in case you missed it, read post 135.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What do you get when you drive an old car that is known to have odd problem from time to time?

Just because the motor is still running doesn't mean that other parts can't break down.

Nick Caserio paid too much for an old car with no real back up plan.
Terrible analogy, I like my E-D analogy much better and it's alot more humorous. Under your theory anybody that's missed more than 20 games over an 8 yr period with lower extremity issues should never be signed. Duly noted.

A 4th/5th rd pick swap is too much for a proven 8 yr vet with jewelry?

With your way of thinking when it comes to injury no player with an injury history should be signed, due to another injury possibly happening even if those injuries are unrelated.

Where would theCards be this Sunday with your thought pattern? Off of the top of my head, No Watt/No Hopkins (He had a bad ankle before that trade that you hated. Wanting it both ways now) No A.J. Green/No Chandler Jones etc... All of these guys had injury histories as bad or worse than Cannon's injury history. Yet the Cards are sitting at 6-0 and the NFL's only undefeated team. Soon going to be 7-0.

God I'm glad you dont run the team.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Terrible analogy, I like my E-D analogy much better and it's alot more humorous. Under your theory anybody that's missed more than 20 games over an 8 yr period with lower extremity issues should never be signed. Duly noted.

A 4th/5th rd pick swap is too much for a proven 8 yr vet with jewelry?

With your way of thinking when it comes to injury no player with an injury history should be signed, due to another injury possibly happening even if those injuries are unrelated.

Where would theCards be this Sunday with your thought pattern? Off of the top of my head, No Watt/No Hopkins (He had a bad ankle before that trade that you hated. Wanting it both ways now) No A.J. Green/No Chandler Jones etc... All of these guys had injury histories as bad or worse than Cannon's injury history. Yet the Cards are sitting at 6-0 and the NFL's only undefeated team. Soon going to be 7-0.

God I'm glad you dont run the team.
Have you done any research on the situation of each of these guys?

Like how Hopkins only sit out game no. 16 since the Texans already qualify for the playoffs?

Or how many 16-game seasons Jones had played as an elite player?

Or how Watt doesn't command top dollar (many Texans fans don't even want to keep him).
But he can make up the money for the Cardinals due to name recognition?

Or how little Green signed for?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
That would be Doc that said his knee would most likely not be a problem. (It wasn't) There was no way to know his back was going to go out.

This is like saying, you've got a case of the sniffles, so you're going to get E-D.
Also, re-read posts 115 & 116
 


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