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Week 7 @ Arizona

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Mills' play has suffered b/c his 2 starting tackles are out...but i'm not sure how much it has suffered. @Texansballer74 points out that his ball fakes are awful & i couldn't agree more. alot of the times he's no where close to the RB when he's executing thoses & its probably why he's had so much trouble throwing the ball over the middle of the field. Those fakes are designed to bring the LB's up...at the very least freeze them long enough to allow for the TE's WR's slide in that void in the zone between them and the safety. With his shitty ball fakes, the LB's don't have to do anything but drop in their zones.

He just needs to sit...work on the nuances of the game and get himself ready for next year. Tired of looking at him checking down for 1 yard pass plays & throwing the ball all soft and ****.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Perfect example of why stats without narrative are crap.

The Jags defense is even worse than the Texans. They give up 29 points a game just like the Texans, have the 2nd worst pass defense and have two total takeaways all year.

It would be beyond irresponsible to attempt to extrapolate TT's performance against five of the top ten scoring defenses this season based primarily on the Jags game. Because Urban Meyers and Trevor Lawrence in their first real NFL games is not a valid measurement.

Would the Texans have scored more points over the last 5 games? I would expect so. But the regression to the mean would have come hard and fast even for TT. Because an injury prone QB with no RB's and a shoddy OL can only do so much. At best this team is 2-6 with the only other win being New England. You don't get to play the Jags every week.
No you don’t get to play the Jags every week. Probably be a playoff team if we did. You play who’s on your schedule. You can make what you want of it, doesn’t change any of the results.

To be honest, if you really wanted to draft and develop a QB like Mills, you don’t put him in the position the Texans have, where he’s 1 play away from being the starter on a trash team. You make him QB3, let him watch the game, study the film, learn from whoever and whatever it is you do to bring along a project. But the Texans are gonna Texan.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
No you don’t get to play the Jags every week. Probably be a playoff team if we did. You play who’s on your schedule. You can make what you want of it, doesn’t change any of the results.

To be honest, if you really wanted to draft and develop a QB like Mills, you don’t put him in the position the Texans have, where he’s 1 play away from being the starter on a trash team. You make him QB3, let him watch the game, study the film, learn from whoever and whatever it is you do to bring along a project. But the Texans are gonna Texan.
They were kinda forced into this position by DW4 TBH...makes no sense to carry 4 qbs under any circumstances which is what they've had to. With Taylor's injury history & Driskel being utter garbage, it was inevitable Mills would see the field this year no matter what they did.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
They were kinda forced into this position by DW4 TBH...makes no sense to carry 4 qbs under any circumstances which is what they've had to. With Taylor's injury history & Driskel being utter garbage, it was inevitable Mills would see the field this year no matter what they did.
Like I had posted before, the Saints carry 4 QBs; and they're contending for a playoff spot.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
No you don’t get to play the Jags every week. Probably be a playoff team if we did. You play who’s on your schedule. You can make what you want of it, doesn’t change any of the results.

To be honest, if you really wanted to draft and develop a QB like Mills, you don’t put him in the position the Texans have, where he’s 1 play away from being the starter on a trash team. You make him QB3, let him watch the game, study the film, learn from whoever and whatever it is you do to bring along a project. But the Texans are gonna Texan.
Agree. Mills should never have even been in a position to be critiqued ad nauseum like he has been over the last 5 weeks.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Hill’s probably listed as a qb, but he ain’t no damn qb…theyre depth also hasn’t been challenged with injuries either. Winston has been healthy.
Still.
Book isn't going to play unless the other 3 guys get injured.
Heck, Payton might sign another veteran QB while Book is still on the inactive list.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Still.
Book isn't going to play unless the other 3 guys get injured.
Heck, Payton might sign another veteran QB while Book is still on the inactive list.
I doubt that's Peyton's reasoning & your examples misrepresents the situation of the Saints. I stated that Hill was probably listed as a qb...he's actually not, he's listed as a WR..which means they don't look at him as being a factor in the qb rotation at all. & Trevor Simien's injury history is hardly a roadblock preventing Book from seeing action...Further i doubt Peyton would hesitate to play him if Siemien got in there & started stinking up the joint. It's really Winston a guy who just doesn't miss time. Anyway, So technically they're only carrying 3 qbs.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I doubt that's Peyton's reasoning & your examples misrepresents the situation of the Saints. I stated that Hill was probably listed as a qb...he's actually not, he's listed as a WR..which means they don't look at him as being a factor in the qb rotation at all. & Trevor Simien's injury history is hardly a roadblock preventing Book from seeing action...Further i doubt Peyton would hesitate to play him if Siemien got in there & started stinking up the joint. It's really Winston a guy who just doesn't miss time. Anyway, So technically they're only carrying 3 qbs.

Their official depth chart has Hill as the back up QB.
They paid him too much money to play as a no. 3-4 receiver.

Siemian missed only one game in 2016.
Then he was out in 2019 for an ankle.
That stuff just needed time to heal, and he had had 2 years to rest.
That guy is a capable back up.
I had watched plenty of his tapes when he started for the Broncos.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
They were kinda forced into this position by DW4 TBH...makes no sense to carry 4 qbs under any circumstances which is what they've had to. With Taylor's injury history & Driskel being utter garbage, it was inevitable Mills would see the field this year no matter what they did.
Or they could've made him play and if he refused, suspend and get in his money. Go sign a vet qb and keep Mills inactive
 

EllisUnit

Trump 2024
The only thing that was accomplished by giving Johnson more touches than Ingram was to give the Cardinals fans another opportunity to laugh at the Texans. I bet it was a hoot watching the turf monster trip him up on that screen play or falling at the first sign of contact.
Yeah, I figured oh great it's trash time. Culley will go into turtle mode and surely Ingram will see a few more touches.... FML
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
We can't see Mills with better supporting talent, so I'd like to see what Taylor can do, for a couple of games, with the same supporting talent Mills has. We have the Rams next Sunday followed by an easy game against Miami, then the bye and then Tennessee.

The Rams and the Titans games should be a good indication how a veteran qb can perform with our team talent.
I think Taylor might have some rust if he is cleared to play (and starts) vs the Rams. Culley said that he is going to practice and then they will have to see how he feels and looks
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
He had a knee injury before the start of his senior season in high school and he missed first two games of season. Surgery was needed but assume minor or a cleanup as he missed a total of three weeks.

State championship game the same knee buckles (non-contact) and coaches keep him out for rest of game (they were winning). Misses the All American Bowl (?) out of caution for the tender knee.

Redshirt freshman. Understand the knee might have still been tender but he was behind an established starter and Costello who was the highly recruited heir apparent. He wasn't going to play that year but my understanding is he was the practice squad QB.

Backup as sophomore to Costello, who accounted for all but 8 pass attempts that entire season, so hard to tell if he missed any time.

Injury starter as Junior as Costello went out a few times. Only game he missed as best I can tell was the UCLA game when neither he nor Costello were available and third string QB played. The other two games he didn't play in all season, Costello was the starter and played all game.

Starter as a Senior, played 5 of 6 games in shortened season missing the opener against Oregon.

I'm seeing two missed games in three seasons of being the back-up or starter, but I can't seem to find why he missed the UCLA and Oregon games.

Happy to be provided additional data that fills in the blanks or shows more injuries/missed games. I seem to remember seeing a story about missing a few games with a thigh contusion or something like that, but I can't find the details again.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Looks like there is a "vengeance curse" for those coming back for injury early just to play the Texans (TY Hilton).................or having left the Texans, then coming back to play them..................Watt and Hopkins. Watt will miss at least the next game for a shoulder injury he sustained............and Hopkins hasn't practiced since last game when he sustained a hamstring injury, making him unlikely to play the next game. :thinking:
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Looks like there is a "vengeance curse" for those coming back for injury early just to play the Texans (TY Hilton).................or having left the Texans, then coming back to play them..................Watt and Hopkins. Watt will miss at least the next game for a shoulder injury he sustained............and Hopkins hasn't practiced since last game when he sustained a hamstring injury, making him unlikely to play the next game. :thinking:
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Looks like there is a "vengeance curse" for those coming back for injury early just to play the Texans (TY Hilton).................or having left the Texans, then coming back to play them..................Watt and Hopkins. Watt will miss at least the next game for a shoulder injury he sustained............and Hopkins hasn't practiced since last game when he sustained a hamstring injury, making him unlikely to play the next game. :thinking:
Update: Watt will miss the remainder of the season.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
From what I've been able to discern......a severely torn labrum with damage also to the rotator cuff.
You know.....I thought Watt said he was going to hang up his cleats when he couldn't play the game at the level he expected of himself. I think his ego has got a hold of him now and he's looking for one more big season so he can go out on a high note.....damm if ego doesn't catch almost every NFL player.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
You know.....I thought Watt said he was going to hang up his cleats when he couldn't play the game at the level he expected of himself. I think his ego has got a hold of him now and he's looking for one more big season so he can go out on a high note.....damm if ego doesn't catch almost every NFL player.
It's the elusive ring that keeps them going past their prime.

I've had my left arm ripped off with a torn labrum and damaged rotator cuff. I wasn't a professional athlete but I was playing basketball in college, in my physical prime, with all the resources to help heal. I'm left-handed and that injury haunted me all the way until I stopped playing ball competitively about a decade later.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It's the elusive ring that keeps them going past their prime.
He's still a heck of a player past his prime. Still affecting the game. Making sure NFL teams know they need someone better than Max Scharping protecting their QB, or opening holes for their running back.

He didn't say I'm going to stop playing when I can't realistically expect 20 sack seasons, or play 16 games. Or earn $15M/yr.

He's still playing well. Maybe not better than "most" but still better than some.

& I'm not a fan of Jj "give me the microphone" Watt.
 
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sandman

Brexit Advisor
He's still a heck of a player past his prime. Still affecting the game. Making sure NFL teams know they need someone better than Max Scharping protecting their QB, or opening holes for their running back.

He didn't say I'm going to stop playing when I can't realistically expect 20 sack seasons, or play 16 games. Or earn $15M/yr.

He's still playing well. Maybe not better than "most" but still better than some.

& I'm not a Jj "give me the microphone" Watt.
I love me some JJ and what he did both on and off the field for the city of Houston is immeasurable. His 5-year run was one of the best ever in the history of the game. But this makes 4 of the last 6 seasons cut short for injury and he has had 9 total sacks in the last three years. At some point, you gotta see it for what it is.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Yikes - this sounds really bad for Watt:
Sources say he actual tore his labrum, his bicep, and his rotator cuff — and dislocated his shoulder.

Doc - What's the recovery time for something like this, and the prognosis for recovery of strength...???
Speakers from a person training POV this is a nasty injury. The recovery from surgery varies depending on the degree of the tears. A bicep on average is 3 to 4 months. That's if everything goes 100% and it's just the bicep. Seeing it pulls the hand, wrist and forearm upward unknown to many it also aids in rotation of the lower arm. Getting back to training will be about 2-3 months with light weight. However he also tore the rotator cuff which in most cases takes about 6 months. Again, with no other hang ups during surgery and recovery. The torn labrum takes about 3-6 months.

All things considered depending on age, previous scar tissue (whichmay need removal to heal properly) degree of tear and JJ is on the shelf for around 5-6 months. But, to heal enough to return to playing could take longer. My guess would be that if he has no set backs, he should be ready for training camp...next year. However, any issue in rehab or recovery could have a big affect on the healing time.

This is speaking as a certified personal trainer. Not as a doctor. He also has a strong work ethic which can in cases help speed up the process. The average person reading this would not have the same medical care or rehab team involved. Which means that we would probably be back as close to 100% in about 1 year. JJ only has 2 sticking points. His age and any unfortunate set backs. While early 30's isn't old, the wear and tear of football could have left micro tears, bone fragments and other things that are going to make surgery take more time. I also have not read if they plan a all at one time repairs or a step by step. Some doctors will repair the rotator and labrum first and move to the bicep later. As it, depending on degree, heals a bit faster.
 
Speakers from a person training POV this is a nasty injury. The recovery from surgery varies depending on the degree of the tears. A bicep on average is 3 to 4 months. That's if everything goes 100% and it's just the bicep. Seeing it pulls the hand, wrist and forearm upward unknown to many it also aids in rotation of the lower arm. Getting back to training will be about 2-3 months with light weight. However he also tore the rotator cuff which in most cases takes about 6 months. Again, with no other hang ups during surgery and recovery. The torn labrum takes about 3-6 months.

All things considered depending on age, previous scar tissue (whichmay need removal to heal properly) degree of tear and JJ is on the shelf for around 5-6 months. But, to heal enough to return to playing could take longer. My guess would be that if he has no set backs, he should be ready for training camp...next year. However, any issue in rehab or recovery could have a big affect on the healing time.

This is speaking as a certified personal trainer. Not as a doctor. He also has a strong work ethic which can in cases help speed up the process. The average person reading this would not have the same medical care or rehab team involved. Which means that we would probably be back as close to 100% in about 1 year. JJ only has 2 sticking points. His age and any unfortunate set backs. While early 30's isn't old, the wear and tear of football could have left micro tears, bone fragments and other things that are going to make surgery take more time. I also have not read if they plan a all at one time repairs or a step by step. Some doctors will repair the rotator and labrum first and move to the bicep later. As it, depending on degree, heals a bit faster.
Thanks for that perspective - MUCH appreciated. From what I understand this injury is also on his left side...so in 2012 he had a left elbow dislocation (and has played with a brace ever since), and in 2015 he broke his left hand and also had multiple torn adductor muscles in the left and right side (but the left was reported to be worse) that had to be surgically repaired. He tore his left pectoral muscle in 2019, and now has more or less shredded his left shoulder in 2021. It's hard to see at his age, injury history, and back issues that he could possibly be near the same level after this latest injury. A weak back, plus injuries to the pec, shoulder and elbow all on the same side has got to be a really bad combination. Even his tibial plateau fracture in 2017 was on the left side. All of these injuries to the same side make me wonder if any were compensatory for weakness caused by a previous injury...

At least if he's right handed he should still be able to play catch after his playing days are over...
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Thanks for that perspective - MUCH appreciated. From what I understand this injury is also on his left side...so in 2012 he had a left elbow dislocation (and has played with a brace ever since), and in 2015 he broke his left hand and also had multiple torn adductor muscles in the left and right side (but the left was reported to be worse) that had to be surgically repaired. He tore his left pectoral muscle in 2019, and now has more or less shredded his left shoulder in 2021. It's hard to see at his age, injury history, and back issues that he could possibly be near the same level after this latest injury. A weak back, plus injuries to the pec, shoulder and elbow all on the same side has got to be a really bad combination. Even his tibial plateau fracture in 2017 was on the left side. All of these injuries to the same side make me wonder if any were compensatory for weakness caused by a previous injury...

At least if he's right handed he should still be able to play catch after his playing days are over...
The sad part is that yes everything has been on the left side, minus back. The body by nature tends to try to cope with an injury of one side by doing much with the other. In JJs case, his body is the same. Meaning that he has almost for certain and for years...been dealing with soreness in the left side of the body. So, he wakes up with a sore knee, he puts more weight on his right leg (unknown to him) and goes about his day. Same with any body part. Meaning his left side is damaged but, we don't know what (if any) damage has been done to his right while compensating for aches and pains in the left
 

Earl34

All Pro
Seeing Watt walk off the field with Hopkins, it didn't appear he was hurt. Anyone knows the play when his shoulder exploded?
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Seeing Watt walk off the field with Hopkins, it didn't appear he was hurt. Anyone knows the play when his shoulder exploded?
I did not go back and watch, but I heard it was the 2nd quarter, he was chasing Davis towards sidelines and hurt diving. So Scharping proves he cannot even hurt people right
 
Yikes - this sounds really bad for Watt:
Sources say he actual tore his labrum, his bicep, and his rotator cuff — and dislocated his shoulder.
@CloakNNNdagger - What's the recovery time for something like this, and the prognosis for recovery of strength...???
Now the Cardinals are saying that he may not even have surgery....say what...all that damage is just supposed to 'get better' without a surgical repair?!

Cardinals GM Steve Keim says J.J. Watt could still possibly return, and calls Murray-Green interception learning lesson (azcardinals.com)

GM Steve Keim, during an appearance on the "Burns and Gambo" show Friday on 98.7, Arizona's Sports Station, said that the veteran defensive end was consulting with additional specialists, and at this point, Keim would not rule out a return in 2021.

"I know surgery is an option, but at the same time I think there are some things that are possibly put in place where we want to play this thing out with a little bit more time and see how he responds," Keim said. "To me, if there is anybody who can bounce back and can do it, it's J.J. Watt."
"As far as I know, there is a possibility (of return)," Keim added. "I don't want to rule that out yet. I'm not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express."
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Now the Cardinals are saying that he may not even have surgery....say what...all that damage is just supposed to 'get better' without a surgical repair?!

Cardinals GM Steve Keim says J.J. Watt could still possibly return, and calls Murray-Green interception learning lesson (azcardinals.com)

GM Steve Keim, during an appearance on the "Burns and Gambo" show Friday on 98.7, Arizona's Sports Station, said that the veteran defensive end was consulting with additional specialists, and at this point, Keim would not rule out a return in 2021.

"I know surgery is an option, but at the same time I think there are some things that are possibly put in place where we want to play this thing out with a little bit more time and see how he responds," Keim said. "To me, if there is anybody who can bounce back and can do it, it's J.J. Watt."
"As far as I know, there is a possibility (of return)," Keim added. "I don't want to rule that out yet. I'm not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express."
IF the official reports were true...he will require surgery. While resting it and allowing it to heal could work. You would never be back to 100% let alone to NFL player.
 


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