Support and keep Texans Talk going. Make a donation here.

Week 18 Titans @ Texans

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
Heard a strange comment on 610 following the game ( strange because it is contrary to popular opinion ).

It was OB who wanted a strong running game. After OB was fired last year, TK was free to run his offense. The Texans threw the ball more than most other teams.

This year, it's Culley who wants to run the ball. TK again is simply following the HC.

Implied was the thought that the Texans were not running TK's offense.
Who cares. TK needs to go
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Why? If the first half is indicative of Culley's run offense and the second half is indicative of TK's pass offense, why do you want to replace TK?
Usually what happens in these situations is the coach has to explain why the bell cow didn't get more carries. He has to explain why the team got pass happy.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Because he sucks.
Why would you keep him? What has he done in like 7 years to think he needs to stay?
How do you know a TK offense would suck?

I didn't watch the 2020 season, but the 610 conversation was that after OB was fired, TK was free to run his offense and the Texans became a passing offense.

I know statistically Watson had a big year. Those of you who paid attention, how much of this was because of a change in game planning philosophy.

I don't recall any discussion of TK's offense last year (other than from a Watson perspective). How was the offense from a TK perspective?
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
It may be Culley's decision to run the ball alot, but it is TK that makes the actual plays
Disagree. I'm speaking of offensive philosophy. We didn't have the talent to run the ball. This lack of talent is not TK's fault. The Texans were most suceasful this year going away from the run game and going to an uptempo pass game. How do you know this isn't a better reflection of a TK offense?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
How do you know a TK offense would suck?

I didn't watch the 2020 season, but the 610 conversation was that after OB was fired, TK was free to run his offense and the Texans became a passing offense.

I know statistically Watson had a big year. Those of you who paid attention, how much of this was because of a change in game planning philosophy.

I don't recall any discussion of TK's offense last year (other than from a Watson perspective). How was the offense from a TK perspective?
Offense never changed after OB left... Uptempo, like this year was a rarely seen animal
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Not necessarily an uptempo game, but what about the different split between running and passing. For Watson to get the stats he did, I wouldn't think the Texans were pounding the ball in a run oriented game.
A fairly typical game... this from week 6, a 42-36 loss to the Titans
  • 1st & 10 at HOU 20
    (14:11 - 1st) (Shotgun) Da.Johnson left guard to HST 21 for 1 yard (J.Simmons).
  • 2nd & 9 at HOU 21
    (13:37 - 1st) (Shotgun) D.Watson sacked at HST 18 for -3 yards (D.Jones).
  • 3rd & 12 at HOU 18
    (12:53 - 1st) (Shotgun) D.Watson pass short middle to W.Fuller pushed ob at HST 40 for 22 yards (A.Hooker).
  • 1st & 10 at HOU 40
    (12:16 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) D.Watson pass incomplete short middle to W.Fuller.
  • 2nd & 10 at HOU 40
    (12:11 - 1st) (Shotgun) Da.Johnson right tackle to HST 44 for 4 yards (K.Byard).
  • 3rd & 6 at HOU 44
    (11:30 - 1st) (Shotgun) D.Watson pass incomplete short middle to Da.Johnson.
  • 4th & 6 at HOU 44
    (11:27 - 1st) B.Anger punts 56 yards to end zone, Center-J.Weeks, Touchback.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Not necessarily an uptempo game, but what about the different split between running and passing. For Watson to get the stats he did, I wouldn't think the Texans were pounding the ball in a run oriented game.
Check out this play by play... 14 play drive in first half a bit atypical but last 4 plays of drive pretty typical
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
Disagree. I'm speaking of offensive philosophy. We didn't have the talent to run the ball. This lack of talent is not TK's fault. The Texans were most suceasful this year going away from the run game and going to an uptempo pass game. How do you know this isn't a better reflection of a TK offense?
Makes sense. Any defense can shut down the run when they fully commit to it. Surprised it wasn't recognized early and exploited, but hey, we got the best outcome: A demonstration of Mills' end-year development while not losing draft position. It's such an ideal outcome that maybe it was deliberate.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
They were playing from behind a lot but Watson did have a good year... an awful lot of runs on 1st and 2nd downs
1st play of the series -Run up the middle for little to no gain.

2nd play - it didn’t work the first time but let’s try it again. They will never expect it.

3rd play - Wow. Third and long. Let’s try throwing it. They will never expect it.

Rinse repeat.

That was the play book for several years.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
1st play of the series -Run up the middle for little to no gain.

2nd play - it didn’t work the first time but let’s try it again. They will never expect it.

3rd play - Wow. Third and long. Let’s try throwing it. They will never expect it.

Rinse repeat.

That was the play book for several years.
Alot of those were RPOs. The QB has to read & react very quickly. If he doesn't trust what he sees it's easy to pass it off to the RB into an overloaded box.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He made his assumption that Watson isn't a superbowl caliber qb after his 32 starts. Yet, I'm sure he knew Foles, Eli,and Flacco were superbowl caliber qbs . 😆
There are exceptions to the rule.

And yes, when he was drafted I thought Eli would win a SB.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He made his assumption that Watson isn't a superbowl caliber qb after his 32 starts. Yet, I'm sure he knew Foles, Eli,and Flacco were superbowl caliber qbs . 😆
It must be eating you up that Mills has been the 2nd best QB in last draft and was the best rookie QB the last month of the season.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
It must be eating you up that Mills has been the 2nd best QB in last draft and was the best rookie QB the last month of the season.
What does 2nd best qb get you? I personally don't care where he ranks 1st yr. RG3 was offensive rookie of the year and where did that get Washington? Its about the long game. Take the afc playoffs and the young qbs. Can Mills get to their level with his talent level? Its been shown that the qb is going to have to be a force multiplier. There will be situations that only your qb can negotiate.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What does 2nd best qb get you? I personally don't care where he ranks 1st yr. RG3 was offensive rookie of the year and where did that get Washington? Its about the long game. Take the afc playoffs and the young qbs. Can Mills get to their level with his talent level? Its been shown that the qb is going to have to be a force multiplier. There will be situations that only your qb can negotiate.
2nd and ascending to 1st in the last month.

What were/are your expectations of Mills since he was so inexperienced. What makes you think he's not a franchise QB? He's got the mind, the arm and enough athletic ability to become a franchise QB. We're not talking about Matt Schaub athletic ability with a weak arm here. This guys accurate and on time for the most part and he's doing this without a good OL/Run Game and limited weapons.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
2nd and ascending to 1st in the last month.

What were/are your expectations of Mills since he was so inexperienced. What makes you think he's not a franchise QB? He's got the mind, the arm and enough athletic ability to become a franchise QB. We're not talking about Matt Schaub athletic ability with a weak arm here. This guys accurate and on time for the most part and he's doing this without a good OL/Run Game and limited weapons.
He looks like Matt Schaub/Kirk Cousins to me. His ceiling is close to his floor. I don't see the pop or the jump off the page ability. Thats not to say he's not an nfl player, he is. When you're that dude, even as a rookie, you jump off the page. Could he pop in year 3 like Brees? I guess, but even then they were bad enough to draft Rivers. Just as they should look to improve the talent on the coaching staff, they should look to upgrade the roster talent.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He looks like Matt Schaub/Kirk Cousins to me. His ceiling is close to his floor. I don't see the pop or the jump off the page ability. Thats not to say he's not an nfl player, he is. When you're that dude, even as a rookie, you jump off the page. Could he pop in year 3 like Brees? I guess, but even then they were bad enough to draft Rivers. Just as they should look to improve the talent on the coaching staff, they should look to upgrade the roster talent.
This is where we disagree.

Leading the NFL in RZ rating and top 4 since 1970 in completion % by rooke QB's. Plus his YPA the last month says he's got as good a chance to be a special QB. Do you not like his arm strength/accuracy or his improving ability to read defenses? Pep's done a fantastic job with him. If I was the Bears/Jags Pep would be on my short list of HC hires and I probably would hire him if I was in the McCaskey's shoes.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
It may be Culley's decision to run the ball alot, but it is TK that makes the actual plays
To be fair to Kelly, O'Brien and Culley have made the running game a point of emphasis. Which is fine. A good running game is great to have. It's just that the Texans haven't had one of those in the past 2 seasons.
 

Toro Bravo

Waterboy
How do you know a TK offense would suck?

I didn't watch the 2020 season, but the 610 conversation was that after OB was fired, TK was free to run his offense and the Texans became a passing offense.

I know statistically Watson had a big year. Those of you who paid attention, how much of this was because of a change in game planning philosophy.

I don't recall any discussion of TK's offense last year (other than from a Watson perspective). How was the offense from a TK perspective?
You can see our 2020 offensive stats here; 2020 NFL Team Total Offense Stats | ESPN

TK offense sucks. 2021 stats:
32nd in total yards & yards/game
30th in total points & points/game.
32nd in total rushing yards & rushing yards/game.
28th in total passing yards & passing yards/game.
30th in total points & points/game.

For Culley to say he is happy with TK is terrible. I am not happy with his offense - he needs to go.
I want the last vestiges of the BOB regime gone.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Schaub, Cousins, and Flacco as comparisons.

Mills was a third round. Schaub was a third round, Cousins a fourth, and Flacco a first.

Good value if all we were looking for was a stop gap or place holder QB.
 

frethack

Rookie
This is where we disagree.

Leading the NFL in RZ rating and top 4 since 1970 in completion % by rooke QB's. Plus his YPA the last month says he's got as good a chance to be a special QB. Do you not like his arm strength/accuracy or his improving ability to read defenses? Pep's done a fantastic job with him. If I was the Bears/Jags Pep would be on my short list of HC hires and I probably would hire him if I was in the McCaskey's shoes.
Yeah, pretty impressed with the work that Pep Hamilton has put in. Hopefully we can offer him OC and he stays, but youre correct...he should be on many teams HC short list. His first two years as OC of the Colts were pretty good...especially 2014. If I remember correctly, Luck really started showing wear and tear in 2015, which was the same year PH was replaced. Also, the Colts kept the wrong HC when they let Arians go and kept Pagano. Not making excuses for Hamilton...its his job to adjust.

I would be excited to see what he can do running the offense. Can it be worse?

As far as Mills, until recently, I was impressed with his growth, but thought of him as Mr. Right Now...a bridge to 2023. Last game (and the one two weeks ago), his ball placement was amazing and he makes good, quick decisions. Thats what jumps off the screen for me. It may be that I am still used to watching Schaub and the other scrubs after him (not including The Oily One) throwing behind receivers and not able to throw them open. It may also be that Im used to watching the quitter hold the ball all day.

Watsons overall talent is certainly better, but Im hopeful that Mills is an upgrade between the ears (time will tell). Lets get the kid around some massage parlors just to make sure. I wouldnt want to just hand the reins for 2022 to Mills...he needs competition, but Ive seen enough to be very interested.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
He looks like Matt Schaub/Kirk Cousins to me. His ceiling is close to his floor. I don't see the pop or the jump off the page ability. Thats not to say he's not an nfl player, he is. When you're that dude, even as a rookie, you jump off the page. Could he pop in year 3 like Brees? I guess, but even then they were bad enough to draft Rivers. Just as they should look to improve the talent on the coaching staff, they should look to upgrade the roster talent.
My current projections for him is:
floor - AJ McCarron
ceiling - Kirk Cousins

At least this season, there's nothing that popped out that has me thinking "this kid can be something special". He looks more serviceable than special.
 
He looks like Matt Schaub/Kirk Cousins to me. His ceiling is close to his floor. I don't see the pop or the jump off the page ability. Thats not to say he's not an nfl player, he is. When you're that dude, even as a rookie, you jump off the page. Could he pop in year 3 like Brees? I guess, but even then they were bad enough to draft Rivers. Just as they should look to improve the talent on the coaching staff, they should look to upgrade the roster talent.
Pretty sure if someone was to go look up 2002-2004 Pats posts they would find similar things being said about Brady. I'm not saying Mills will be the next Brady but all your talk that a guy has to "jump off the page" doesn't pass the history test. Wilson didn't jump off the page, everyone said it was the run game and defense until he didn't have those and then they had to say "oh yeah guess the guy is good". Manning didn't jump off the page except into the trash bin his rookie year. The other Manning also didn't jump off the page but he made the Giants look the best they have in the last 30 years and ruined Brady's off season. Speaking of Brady everyone called him a game manager up until his third or so SB win. Sounds to me like you are looking for a highlight reel player, someone that makes a 30 second clip look really good even if the overall game, and win record, is crap.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
My current projections for him is:
floor - AJ McCarron
ceiling - Kirk Cousins

At least this season, there's nothing that popped out that has me thinking "this kid can be something special". He looks more serviceable than special.
So the best QB in this class is Cousins.

4th best completion % of QB's since 1970 is kinda special. Best RZ rating in the NFL from a rookie QB with 26 combined starts in the NFL/College is kinda special.

Tell me what it would take for you to think he's special? I'm guessing your answer would be Derrick but you would be wrong. Historically those typesof QB's dont win championships. Steve Young was that type of QB and he only won 1 championship, while the other style of QB, Montana won 4. Historical reference.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Pretty sure if someone was to go look up 2002-2004 Pats posts they would find similar things being said about Brady. I'm not saying Mills will be the next Brady but all your talk that a guy has to "jump off the page" doesn't pass the history test. Wilson didn't jump off the page, everyone said it was the run game and defense until he didn't have those and then they had to say "oh yeah guess the guy is good". Manning didn't jump off the page except into the trash bin his rookie year.
Brady had won 3 Super Bowls by 2004. I've already posted the numerous records Peyton set as a rookie. Stop going off the deep end comparing Mills to possibly the top QBs in football history. Russell Wilson had a tremendous rookie year (26 TDs). There are plenty of flattering comparisons to make with Mills without going bonkers. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, and Andy Dalton, for instance.
 
Brady had won 3 Super Bowls by 2004. I've already posted the numerous records Peyton set as a rookie. Stop going off the deep end comparing Mills to possibly the top QBs in football history. Russell Wilson had a tremendous rookie year (26 TDs). There are plenty of flattering comparisons to make with Mills without going bonkers. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, and Andy Dalton, for instance.
I wasn’t comparing Mills to any of them and if you read my post you’ll see that. I was saying QBs that don’t make a flash do not mean they won’t be great QBs.

Also Brady hadn’t won his 3rd SB by 2004. He won in 02, 04, 05, 15, 17, 19 and 21. Oh and by the way one of the records Manning also set was most interceptions at 28. Before telling me to “stop going off the deep end” get your facts rights.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Brady had won 3 Super Bowls by 2004. I've already posted the numerous records Peyton set as a rookie. Stop going off the deep end comparing Mills to possibly the top QBs in football history. Russell Wilson had a tremendous rookie year (26 TDs). There are plenty of flattering comparisons to make with Mills without going bonkers. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, and Andy Dalton, for instance.
I see Mills in the Ryan/Rivers light.

Both Franchise QB's let's hope Mills has the clutch gene.
 


Top