Support and keep Texans Talk going. Make a donation here.

Week 15 - The Battle of Dumpster Fires (Jags)

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
It means that likely the AFC title game is not going to involve any teams in our division.
3-0 against the Jags and Tits. IIRC, OB started 10-0 against those 2 teams.

And don't forget how Indy smashed us by a combined 62-3.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
With the lack of talent I would rather trade for more picks. Get quality players in the top 2-3 rounds then in the 2023 draft go get a QB if Mills is not going to be good
Give me 1 of the 5 star level players in this draft. Then go to work on the OL with rd 2-3 even if that means having to trade up to get the OL fixed. That's unless they pick Neal at 1-3 and I certainly would be very happy if Caserio took Neal at 1-3 and Kinnard at 2-35. The run game issues would be solved immediately. I just think Stingley is a multi pro bowl type guy. Take the talent over the need.

BTW, I'm not scared of Neal's weight, he seems to be very athletic and an extremely hard worker. I see Neal as a RT who can easily play LT if needed. A combination of Kinnard at RG and Neal at RT would mean 700 LBS of extremely athletic people movers. I would love to see this OL and signing cheap FA's like WR Washington and TE Howard to give Mills weapons. Then draft Charbonnet at 3-67.

Tunsil/Howard/Britt/Kinnard/Neal Swing OT Heck OG Taylor

QB's Mills/Taylor/ Drafted in the 6th Zappe

RB's Charbonnet/Burkhead/Phillips/ Drafted Ingraham

WR's Cooks/Washington/Dorsett/Collins/Late rd drafted guy. I like Phillips from UCLA.

TE's Howard/Jordan/Auclair

This could easily happen.

Then hopefully you could trade Derrick to fix the defense.

This will take a couple of yrs but it certainly could happen.
 

KA4Texan

Potatoes Have Eyes Everywhere!!
Contributor's Club
Not that I’m rooting for them, but the Colts seem to be getting hot at the right time.
Im rooting for them to overtake the Titans and Im not ashamed to admit it.

Block the Titans from the AFCS title and then I dont care what they do.

Would be an awesome season IF the Titans need that final game and they are unable to win it... but Titans losing out would put a big smile on my face too.

Taste like bile to say it but "Go Colts!" Still more welcome to say than "Titans AFCS Champs." Which leaves a taste in the mouth so disgusting not even the floor of a movie theater could remove it.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Im rooting for them to overtake the Titans and Im not ashamed to admit it.
I’m rooting for it because Taylor is my fantasy RB and it’s playoff time. Though I do hate the Titans a tad more than the Colts. But once the NFL playoffs start, I’ll be rooting for either to be one and done.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The completion to Aikins wasn't on a line as it went through the outstretched arms/hands of the defender no. 5, I believe.
If that pass was on a line, it would have been right at his head's level, thereabout.

On the next pass, Mills threw a bad pass.
That could have easily been an offensive pass interference by Cooks, but the ref didn't call it.
Without that contact, no. 32 would have an easy Int.

The outcome of the game, as expected, had been pre-determined, from my point of view.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
The completion to Aikins wasn't on a line as it went through the outstretched arms/hands of the defender no. 5, I believe.
If that pass was on a line, it would have been right at his head's level, thereabout.

On the next pass, Mills threw a bad pass.
That could have easily been an offensive pass interference by Cooks, but the ref didn't call it.
Without that contact, no. 32 would have an easy Int.

The outcome of the game, as expected, had been pre-determined, from my point of view.
Careful 76, you may give yourself the “twisties” with those mental gymnastics ;)
 
The completion to Aikins wasn't on a line as it went through the outstretched arms/hands of the defender no. 5, I believe.
If that pass was on a line, it would have been right at his head's level, thereabout.

On the next pass, Mills threw a bad pass.
That could have easily been an offensive pass interference by Cooks, but the ref didn't call it.
Without that contact, no. 32 would have an easy Int.

The outcome of the game, as expected, had been pre-determined, from my point of view.
Yeah and if the Seahawks had given Lynch the ball Brady wouldn't have to use a second hand to show off his rings. Point is no one cares about what coulda, shoulda or woulda happen they only care about what did happen. These theory crafting can work both ways. Here's an example using the pass you talked about.

Players line up and defense player is covering Cooks, suddenly he starts wondering if his shoe is untied, he looks down just as the play starts and that couple of seconds lets Cooks burn him and be wide open, the lack of coverage on Cooks means Mills can take a extra second to throw a perfect pass.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Yeah and if the Seahawks had given Lynch the ball Brady wouldn't have to use a second hand to show off his rings. Point is no one cares about what coulda, shoulda or woulda happen they only care about what did happen. These theory crafting can work both ways. Here's an example using the pass you talked about.

Players line up and defense player is covering Cooks, suddenly he starts wondering if his shoe is untied, he looks down just as the play starts and that couple of seconds lets Cooks burn him and be wide open, the lack of coverage on Cooks means Mills can take a extra second to throw a perfect pass.
You lost me.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Careful 76, you may give yourself the “twisties” with those mental gymnastics ;)
One more for you
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
So wait a second, now we are switching it over to the NFL games being rigged? Not that I disagree per say but thats a pretty big leap to explain why Mills played better and the Texans won. Dear Lord we are diving dig down the rabbit hole on this one.
It doesn't matter whether the call should have been made; the fact remains that it was a bad throw that could be easily intercepted.
That's a lucky QB, not a good QB.

The last time I check the definition in the dictionary, the meanings haven't changed.

And I didn't switch anything.
I was simply responding to a post, so please don't start to twist things again.
You're good at accusing people of doing things you don't want others to accuse you of.
What is that called?
Double standard?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So wait a second, now we are switching it over to the NFL games being rigged? Not that I disagree per say but thats a pretty big leap to explain why Mills played better and the Texans won. Dear Lord we are diving dig down the rabbit hole on this one.
That's the extent posters will go too in their quest to be right.

Question, do you think 76 would rather be wrong and Mills be a top 5 QB, or would he rather be right?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
When you see a week like this past week in the NFL it really makes you wonder:

Saints 9...TB 0...- a immensely talented tampa team...led by TB12..... scoring 0 points? when has that ever happened in his career?
Lions drop 30 on Ariz.....This 1 is less surprising, but the Arizona looked all kinds of out of sorts in that game.


When you think about it, All it really takes is for a Vegas insider to get ahold of 1 key guy that can influence a game...a starting CB.....an o-linemen...For that reason, I think point spreads and covers are definitely rigged, outcomes not so much.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I know I'm right.
You know I'm right.

You can't be saying Mills is going to be a top 5 QB, can you? 😆 LOL
I'm saying your opinion is biased and you would rather the Texans ( not just Mills) fail than be wrong.

And don't try to twist my words with slimey posts like this one. Nowhere in my post did I say I thought Mills was going to be a top 5 QB. What I did say ( to set the record straight for the 1,000 time) is we don't know how good or bad Mills is going to be as of right now.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
When you see a week like this past week in the NFL it really makes you wonder:

Saints 9...TB 0...- a immensely talented tampa team...led by TB12..... scoring 0 points? when has that ever happened in his career?
Lions drop 30 on Ariz.....This 1 is less surprising, but the Arizona looked all kinds of out of sorts in that game.


When you think about it, All it really takes is for a Vegas insider to get ahold of 1 key guy that can influence a game...a starting CB.....an o-linemen...For that reason, I think point spreads and covers are definitely rigged, outcomes not so much.
Then games like the RS/Saints playoff game happens that makes you even question this. I've got a gambling story to tell you that happened yrs ago, that was the final straw for me gambling on the NFL, but I've got work to do right now.
 
It doesn't matter whether the call should have been made; the fact remains that it was a bad throw that could be easily intercepted.
That's a lucky QB, not a good QB.

The last time I check the definition in the dictionary, the meanings haven't changed.

And I didn't switch anything.
I was simply responding to a post, so please don't start to twist things again.
You're good at accusing people of doing things you don't want others to accuse you of.
What is that called?
Double standard?
I’m not switching anything, I have consistently said that Mills, by the ways that QBs are measured, is currently the better QB. You are the one that has talked about numbers not showing the complete story, something you forget when you are using numbers, creating all kinds of what if scenarios, which can be used to make any point since they are basically fantasy, and talking about the games being rigged while posting articles from former NFL players.

Meanwhile I have just stayed on message in every post. Oh and by the way I haven’t accused you of anything so to paraphrase Shakespeare.

Me thinks the poster protests to much.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
I hope they trade down multiple times for multiple picks this year and next
And still get 4-5 starters this year
Very possible. Looks to me like players from the first five rounds could make our starting roster. Especially O linemen.
Not too hard to upgrade what we have. We could trade down and probably still get Fla. cb Elam w/ our first pick.
Maybe gamble on a late round camp arm. Eric Barriere Eastern Washington.
I too believe in a qb every draft, who/where depends on need of course. I like Mills

Probably 50/50 Taylor is here next year. IMQO

:coffee:
 
Last edited:

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I’m not switching anything, I have consistently said that Mills, by the ways that QBs are measured, is currently the better QB. You are the one that has talked about numbers not showing the complete story, something you forget when you are using numbers, creating all kinds of what if scenarios, which can be used to make any point since they are basically fantasy, and talking about the games being rigged while posting articles from former NFL players.

Meanwhile I have just stayed on message in every post. Oh and by the way I haven’t accused you of anything so to paraphrase Shakespeare.

Me thinks the poster protests to much.
And I respectfully disagree.
Like I said, stats need to have proper context.

For example, not all TDs are alike.
Those that occur when the outcome of the game is already clearly decided and the opponent was throwing out backups are not the same as those TDs that are thrown when the game is still undecided.

INTs are not alike either.
One that bounces of a receiver hands is not the same as one that resulted due to a bad throw.
Also, Interception rate per number of throws is more accurate than raw number.
A QB that throw 100 balls have more risk of having an Interception than one that only throw 50 passes.

Completion percentage must take into account the depth of the throw.
Down and distance need to be considered.
A highly accurate QB like Kellen Moore couldn't make it the NFL (but he's been proven to be a very good OC) exactly due to this reason.
He was a master with the short and intermediate passes.
(E J Manuel is another example.)

The weapons also matter, as well as pass protection.

And on and on.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
And I respectfully disagree.
Like I said, stats need to have proper context.

For example, not all TDs are alike.
Those that occur when the outcome of the game is already clearly decided and the opponent was throwing out backups are not the same as those TDs that are thrown when the game is still undecided.

INTs are not alike either.
One that bounces of a receiver hands is not the same as one that resulted due to a bad throw.
Also, Interception rate per number of throws is more accurate than raw number.
A QB that throw 100 balls have more risk of having an Interception than one that only throw 50 passes.

Completion percentage must take into account the depth of the throw.
Down and distance need to be considered.
A highly accurate QB like Kellen Moore couldn't make it the NFL (but he's been proven to be a very good OC) exactly due to this reason.
He was a master with the short and intermediate passes.
(E J Manuel is another example.)

The weapons also matter, as well as pass protection.

And on and on.
I kinda hear what you are saying, but it’s far & few between that we see good stats & bad QB.

& I’m not saying Davis Mills is good, or bad. But like most I’m saying for who he is & the history he’shad, I’m pleasantly surprised by the level of his play so far.

I don’t want him to be the QB of the future. Just our QB until we find our QB of the future.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I kinda hear what you are saying, but it’s far & few between that we see good stats & bad QB.

& I’m not saying Davis Mills is good, or bad. But like most I’m saying for who he is & the history he’shad, I’m pleasantly surprised by the level of his play so far.

I don’t want him to be the QB of the future. Just our QB until we find our QB of the future.
Does it matter who the bridge QB is?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Not really. But I would hope it’s one guy & not the dozen or so that O’Brien went through.
One guy or ten guys, same thing.
You don't have a QB.
Your preference.
I'd rather have a solid HC first and then go the route of the Colts of hiring a gun while building the team.
More fun to watch.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
One guy or ten guys, same thing.
You don't have a QB.
Your preference.
I'd rather have a solid HC first and then go the route of the Colts of hiring a gun while building the team.
More fun to watch.
I prefer stability at the QB position.

the Colts have a much better team than we do to plug in a hired gun that’s going to cost them a 1st & a 3rd, which we don’t need to be giving away.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
I prefer stability at the QB position.

the Colts have a much better team than we do to plug in a hired gun that’s going to cost them a 1st & a 3rd, which we don’t need to be giving away.
76 is right.

Like a rebuild to begin with a Jimmy Johnson. You need feet in field first after all it is football. This is why I was so opposed to Culley, clearly unqualified for position, no coordinator experience even, which begs question is Caserio all that? Maybe he suffered from being Belichick pigeon all those years, running the show and didn’t want to relinquish his new found power….

Speaking of QB stability, Chargers got lucky last year drafting Herbert. But that didn’t stop Telesco from firing Anthony Lynn (fine man, like Culley but with more head coaching and coordinator experience). Enter Staley, as noted his first interview was with Texans day after Rams lost in playoffs. I’m sure he was exhausted, probably not as sharp or impressive as usual, so he didn’t blow Cal and company away? Or Jack and Nick already had their plan in place, thinking they could right ship Watson?

Whatever, it’s been a learning experience one that I wish went Texans not Chargers way. Point is, most important piece is your head coach, he needs to be the guy in charge of Cal’s football team, assistant hiring/firing, schemes, drafting and free agency. The GM needs to work with him to address those needs and give him tools to build a Championship.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
76 is right
No, he's not. Well, yeah about the HC but I wasn't even talking about HC. That's a moved goal post, one I didn't argue.

Does it matter who the bridge QB is?

This is why I was so opposed to Culley, clearly unqualified for position, no coordinator experience even, which begs question is Caserio all that?
I know I'm in the minority here & it's hard to get past the Culley bias. But let's try.

Remove the names & age. How does one year as DC make one more qualified than another? I'm just not seeing it especially since the one did not build that defense that just happened to have the baddest man on the planet on it.

I don't mean to belittle what Staley did, nor am I saying he's not qualified. Just saying one year at DC doesn't make one qualified.

Look at Jason Garrett.

Enter Staley, as noted his first interview was with Texans day after Rams lost in playoffs. I’m sure he was exhausted, probably not as sharp or impressive as usual, so he didn’t blow Cal and company away?
Cal, Jack, & Korn Ferry wasted many people's time. They knew they weren't going to hire a HC until after they hired their GM.

Just like we believe the HC should hire his staff, some believe the GM should hire the coach. I don't think that's always the case, but with someone like a McNair as owner, that's the way it should be.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
76 is right.

Like a rebuild to begin with a Jimmy Johnson. You need feet in field first after all it is football. This is why I was so opposed to Culley, clearly unqualified for position, no coordinator experience even, which begs question is Caserio all that? Maybe he suffered from being Belichick pigeon all those years, running the show and didn’t want to relinquish his new found power….

Speaking of QB stability, Chargers got lucky last year drafting Herbert. But that didn’t stop Telesco from firing Anthony Lynn (fine man, like Culley but with more head coaching and coordinator experience). Enter Staley, as noted his first interview was with Texans day after Rams lost in playoffs. I’m sure he was exhausted, probably not as sharp or impressive as usual, so he didn’t blow Cal and company away? Or Jack and Nick already had their plan in place, thinking they could right ship Watson?

Whatever, it’s been a learning experience one that I wish went Texans not Chargers way. Point is, most important piece is your head coach, he needs to be the guy in charge of Cal’s football team, assistant hiring/firing, schemes, drafting and free agency. The GM needs to work with him to address those needs and give him tools to build a Championship.
The GM and HC need to be on the same page. The GM should be in charge of all personnel decisions in FA, Draft. The HC should have input but the GM makes the final calls.

Having your HC hopefully n place is important, but the timing is everything. If you really want a certain HC and he's unavailable, then you put a Culley in place until your guy becomes available.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Whatever, it’s been a learning experience one that I wish went Texans not Chargers way. Point is, most important piece is your head coach, he needs to be the guy in charge of Cal’s football team, assistant hiring/firing, schemes, drafting and free agency. The GM needs to work with him to address those needs and give him tools to build a Championship.
In one aspect I disagree... The shape the Texans were in, no way they were going to do anything but suck, no matter who the QB or HC was. Let the team get built a little before you bring in the guys you think will give you a shot. Do you want them Carr'd?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The GM and HC need to be on the same page.
Absolutely

The GM should be in charge of all personnel decisions in FA, Draft. The HC should have input but the GM makes the final calls.
We've seen it work both ways. Belichick in New England or Elway in Denver.

Identify that one person, & everything goes through him. Our problem has been that McNair for some reason thought he was the one person. He brought in Casserly & Capers both reporting directly to him. One minute he backs Casserly, the next Capers & the team never went in the same direction.

He brings in Kubiak & Smith both reporting directly to him & they were on the same page for a while, then they lost their way.

Hopefully this is now Nick's team & were going in a single direction. If not, Nick gets kicked to the curb & whatever baggage he brought with him (his coach).
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
No, he's not. Well, yeah about the HC but I wasn't even talking about HC. That's a moved goal post, one I didn't argue.





I know I'm in the minority here & it's hard to get past the Culley bias. But let's try.

Remove the names & age. How does one year as DC make one more qualified than another? I'm just not seeing it especially since the one did not build that defense that just happened to have the baddest man on the planet on it.

I don't mean to belittle what Staley did, nor am I saying he's not qualified. Just saying one year at DC doesn't make one qualified.

Look at Jason Garrett.



Cal, Jack, & Korn Ferry wasted many people's time. They knew they weren't going to hire a HC until after they hired their GM.

Just like we believe the HC should hire his staff, some believe the GM should hire the coach. I don't think that's always the case, but with someone like a McNair as owner, that's the way it should be.
OMG Thunderkyss, of all people, should know about Staley and his background -
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
OMG Thunderkyss, of all people, should know about Staley and his background -
Don't get all 76 on me. Focus.
no coordinator experience even,
I literally said I'm not denying Staley's qualifications. Just don't see one year as a coordinator making one person more qualified than the next.

If Staley was not DC for that one year & he interviewed with you for a HC position, would you pass on him?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Absolutely


We've seen it work both ways. Belichick in New England or Elway in Denver.

Identify that one person, & everything goes through him. Our problem has been that McNair for some reason thought he was the one person. He brought in Casserly & Capers both reporting directly to him. One minute he backs Casserly, the next Capers & the team never went in the same direction.

He brings in Kubiak & Smith both reporting directly to him & they were on the same page for a while, then they lost their way.

Hopefully this is now Nick's team & were going in a single direction. If not, Nick gets kicked to the curb & whatever baggage he brought with him (his coach).
I'm just glad that 1 guys in charge of everything now on the football side of things.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Don't get all 76 on me. Focus.


I literally said I'm not denying Staley's qualifications. Just don't see one year as a coordinator making one person more qualified than the next.

If Staley was not DC for that one year & he interviewed with you for a HC position, would you pass on him?
I tell you one thing, see why you and 76 get into it, consistently. Don’t think we ever had until now. Have a lot of respect for you built upon years and years on this board. But your not absorbing the message or even considering there are exceptions to the rule. Staley has been successful every step of the way in his process. Might of been only one year as Rams DC but he made them #1 defense overnight implementing his cover 2. 10th in NFL 2019 to #1 w/Staley. This year without Staley but still using his scheme #8th. But it’s not just about being a defensive coordinator it’s about overseeing his football team in every aspect. Being about to evaluate talent to fit his system, all encompassing. GM oversees him and rest of organization.
 

Earl34

All Pro
The GM and HC need to be on the same page. The GM should be in charge of all personnel decisions in FA, Draft. The HC should have input but the GM makes the final calls.

Having your HC hopefully n place is important, but the timing is everything. If you really want a certain HC and he's unavailable, then you put a Culley in place until your guy becomes available.
Here lies the root of the dysfunction that has plague this franchise. If you hire a GM, he should have a list of HC candidates he wants to hire/work with. If his first choice isn't available, there is no such thing as waiting until he is available or hiring a placeholder until he's available. When in NFL history has any team operated in this manner? I know in Nicky we trust, but that is some Stockholm syndrome type rationale to justify the nonsense going on at NRG. Placeholder HC. Only the Texans and Texans' fans would think this is normal.

Look at what McDaniels did to the Colts. He agreed to be their HC, they started hiring his coaching staff (Matt Eberflus) and then he reneged on the agreement. My point is even when your guy becomes available, conditions might change.
 
Last edited:

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Here lies the root of the dysfunction that has plague this franchise. If you hire a GM, he should have a list of HC candidates he wants to hire/work with. If his first choice isn't available, there is no such thing as waiting until he is available or hiring a placeholder until he's available.
You’re starting from the assumption that Culley is a placeholder.

Go back to the premise that a GM would have a list of HCs he wants to hire/work with. Nick only brought one name to the table & he hired that guy.

we don’t like that decision. Nick has made several decisions we don’t like.
 

Earl34

All Pro
You’re starting from the assumption that Culley is a placeholder.

Go back to the premise that a GM would have a list of HCs he wants to hire/work with. Nick only brought one name to the table & he hired that guy.

we don’t like that decision. Nick has made several decisions we don’t like.
I didn't start from the premise of Culley as a placeholder. I'm countering the posts that mentions waiting until McCown or McDaniels are available. It gets posted here as if it's normal for an NFL team to hire a placeholder coach and then wait for another coach to become available. It's nuts.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Here lies the root of the dysfunction that has plague this franchise. If you hire a GM, he should have a list of HC candidates he wants to hire/work with. If his first choice isn't available, there is no such thing as waiting until he is available or hiring a placeholder until he's available. When in NFL history has any team operated in this manner? I know in Nicky we trust, but that is some Stockholm syndrome type rationale to justify the nonsense going on at NRG. Placeholder HC. Only the Texans and Texans' fans would think this is normal.

Look at what McDaniels did to the Colts. He agreed to be their HC, they started hiring his coaching staff (Matt Eberflus) and then he reneged on the agreement. My point is even when your guy becomes available, conditions might change.
The reason the Texans haven't been a great org is the McNair's don't put winning 1st and foremost. They're more about the fan experience.

Also they meddle when they shouldn't. They have hired GM's that for different reasons weren't good at their jobs and last but not least they have the silly Not Texans Worthy rule.
 

banned1976

sleeper mode
The reason I find it hard to root for this team, or even watch them this year is because they have not yet even begun to rebuild. I can only hope Culley and Kelly are "placeholders" for the next guys because if not...regardless of the player talent they bring in, the ceiling will be limited. Kind of like it was with O'Brien.
 


Top