Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

We may get some O-line help sooner than we think...

Mangler

Mangler

Toro de España
Think about it, the front office usually waits until something big/embarrassing hapens before they realize what is obvious to everyone and act on it. At this rate, it's only a matter of time before Brock goes down with a season ending injury.

Don't get it twisted, we all bash McNair but he's no different than any other business owner. If he senses that he's losing customers, he will make something happen. The end of last season proved it! No matter what the coaching staff/players/front office say, they really do pay attention to social media. We just have to make enough noise!
 
I think/hope O-line help will be coming, but it won't be until next offseason, draft and FA. I don't expect any trades or upgrades during the season. I do agree with your first sentence though, the organization doesn't seem to make any type of change until it's absolutely necessary when it's been blatantly obvious to fans that the O-line is in desperate need of help. The Texans didn't seem to learn anything from the failed David Carr experiment, still making the mistake of surrounding your franchise QB with a mediocre at best O-line.
 
Your basic premise may indeed be right mangler (I don't know one way or the other) but you should keep in mind that the Texans front office has "Dinosaur Reflexes" and the response you're hoping for once they realize that there is a problem and the fan base is discontented may take quite a while to get here.
 
Mangler said:
Think about it, the front office usually waits until something big/embarrassing hapens before they realize what is obvious to everyone and act on it. At this rate, it's only a matter of time before Brock goes down with a season ending injury.

Don't get it twisted, we all bash McNair but he's no different than any other business owner. If he senses that he's losing customers, he will make something happen. The end of last season proved it! No matter what the coaching staff/players/front office say, they really do pay attention to social media. We just have to make enough noise!
Click to expand...
How about some suggestions as to where we get this help from? Only two possibilities, free agency and trade. If any quality lineman (or any other position) existed that would make team better, McNair would buy them. He has before and no reason not to now. Texans have approximately $ 8 million that could bring at least one tackle in plus $20 million next season. A very good contract could be offered.

Trade? Identify a team that has an extra OT they would be willing to trade to us. Then tell me what we have on roster to trade that other team would want; or what draft pick(s) we should offer. Texans fans have been much more irate in the past than now; remind me how that worked out.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think McNair was more embarrassed than worrying about losing customers after the WildCard debacle.
Click to expand...

Really?

Everyting McNair has done since this franchise's inception is with customers in mind. To think otherwise is burying ones head in the sand.

Fans are starting to wake up to McNair's shell game.
 
badboy said:
How about some suggestions as to where we get this help from? Only two possibilities, free agency and trade. If any quality lineman (or any other position) existed that would make team better, McNair would buy them. He has before and no reason not to now. Texans have approximately $ 8 million that could bring at least one tackle in plus $20 million next season. A very good contract could be offered.

Trade? Identify a team that has an extra OT they would be willing to trade to us. Then tell me what we have on roster to trade that other team would want; or what draft pick(s) we should offer. Texans fans have been much more irate in the past than now; remind me how that worked out.
Click to expand...

Delete
 
Last edited:
badboy said:
How about some suggestions as to where we get this help from? Only two possibilities, free agency and trade. If any quality lineman (or any other position) existed that would make team better, McNair would buy them. He has before and no reason not to now. Texans have approximately $ 8 million that could bring at least one tackle in plus $20 million next season. A very good contract could be offered.

Trade? Identify a team that has an extra OT they would be willing to trade to us. Then tell me what we have on roster to trade that other team would want; or what draft pick(s) we should offer. Texans fans have been much more irate in the past than now; remind me how that worked out.
Click to expand...

Kirwanon NFLN today said Cleveland was looking to trade Joe Thomas. He said the asking price was 2017 2nd and a 2018 4th that could turn into a conditional 3rd. I believe Thomas has 3 yrs left on his contract.

A line of Tomas/Newton/Mancz/Allen/Brown looks alot better than what they're currently putting out there. Then in 2017 a line of Thomas/Newton/Martin/Brown or draft pick looks like the kind of OL that there would be no excuses for OS.
 
With all the O-line issues this team is having this year, where the hell is Tony Bergstrom? Why isn't he playing and why couldn't a veteran FA that we're paying good money to beat out a 2nd year UDFA? Is he injured?
 
steelbtexan said:
Kirwanon NFLN today said Cleveland was looking to trade Joe Thomas. He said the asking price was 2017 2nd and a 2018 4th that could turn into a conditional 3rd. I believe Thomas has 3 yrs left on his contract.

A line of Tomas/Newton/Mancz/Allen/Brown looks alot better than what they're currently putting out there. Then in 2017 a line of Thomas/Newton/Martin/Brown or draft pick looks like the kind of OL that there would be no excuses for OS.
Click to expand...

You know, if you're the Houston Texans and that rumor has any truth at all to it how in the hell do you not go get Joe Thomas? Quality linemen have long careers barring injury and him finishing his career here would buy the Texans much needed time to address their line plus he's just a year older than Duane Brown.

Add to that the fact that we rarely get more than 3-4 years out of players we draft anyway and I think it's a hell of a plan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB
Joe Thomas Injury History:

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/joe-thomas-player-injuries

Year - Week - Injury - Status
2015 - 17 - knee - Questionable
2015 - 16 - knee - Questionable
2015 - 15 - knee - Probable
2014 - 9 -not injury related - Probable
2013 - 17 - back - Probable
2013 - 16 - back - Probable
2013 - 15 - back - Probable
2013 - 6 - elbow - Probable

Turns 32 in December. Drafted in 2007

Salary Cap Info:
http://overthecap.com/player/joe-thomas/285/

2016: $9,500,000
2017: $10,000,000
2018: $10,000,000

These are the 3 cheapest years of his contract.
 
PapaL said:
Joe Thomas Injury History:

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/joe-thomas-player-injuries

Year - Week - Injury - Status
2015 - 17 - knee - Questionable
2015 - 16 - knee - Questionable
2015 - 15 - knee - Probable
2014 - 9 -not injury related - Probable
2013 - 17 - back - Probable
2013 - 16 - back - Probable
2013 - 15 - back - Probable
2013 - 6 - elbow - Probable

Turns 32 in December. Drafted in 2007

Salary Cap Info:
http://overthecap.com/player/joe-thomas/285/

2016: $9,500,000
2017: $10,000,000
2018: $10,000,000

These are the 3 cheapest years of his contract.
Click to expand...

All important stuff. I'm partial to the last two columns in this one. "Games Played" and "Games Started".

2016 Cleveland Browns 5 5
2015 Cleveland Browns 16 16
2014 Cleveland Browns 16 16
2013 Cleveland Browns 16 16
2012 Cleveland Browns 16 16
2011 Cleveland Browns 16 16
2010 Cleveland Browns 16 16
2009 Cleveland Browns 16 16
2008 Cleveland Browns 16 16
2007 Cleveland Browns 16 16

He's an older player admittedly but he's also a great player. A HOF player at a position where players who have not had major injuries tend to have long careers. A 10 year veteran OT like him is still a heck of a player. Munchak played 12 years, Matthews played 19 (atypical). Orlando Pace played 12 years. Munoz played 13, Joe Jacoby played 13.

Great offensive linemen can have very long careers if injury doesn't derail them. I'd look into it.
 
I think there's a good chance that I don't know good OL play from bad. I've watched the Minnesota game twice... once live, the second time focusing on Osweiler & the passing game & I think XSF & Mancz are doing a good job providing protection.

I don't particularly like XSF or Mancz, I'm just watching the game & commenting on what I see.

If you believe XSF & Mancz are a big part of what's going wrong, please point out their bad plays in this video. Like I said, I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just trying to learn what is good, what is bad, & what we expect.

 
Hervoyel said:
All important stuff. I'm partial to the last two columns in this one. "Games Played" and "Games Started".
Click to expand...

I didn't see that in the link I found. I had a hard time finding injuries history; even those were vague. But yes, while dinged up he still plays.


thunderkyss said:
If you believe XSF & Mancz are a big part of what's going wrong, please point out their bad plays in this video. Like I said, I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just trying to learn what is good, what is bad, & what we expect.

Click to expand...

I believe their pass blocking is passable, it's more so on the run plays. Yes they engage their defenders but don't do anything afterward. There is zero movement and not a hole to be found; never mind getting to the second level. A stalemate at the LOS on a run play is a win for the defense. A stalemate on a pass play is a win for the offense...well it should be if the play calling isn't terrible and your QB isn't crapping the bed.
 
badboy said:
How about some suggestions as to where we get this help from? Only two possibilities, free agency and trade. If any quality lineman (or any other position) existed that would make team better, McNair would buy them. He has before and no reason not to now. Texans have approximately $ 8 million that could bring at least one tackle in plus $20 million next season. A very good contract could be offered.

Trade? Identify a team that has an extra OT they would be willing to trade to us. Then tell me what we have on roster to trade that other team would want; or what draft pick(s) we should offer. Texans fans have been much more irate in the past than now; remind me how that worked out.
Click to expand...

I doubt that the Texans would do it and the Browns may not want to do it, but a trade for Joe Thomas makes some sense.

Would probably mean Duane sliding over to the right side and Newt going to guard. But then you'd either have a second round draft pick on the bench or a guy with a decent fa contract on the bench...UNLESS, one of those guys were included in the trade.

Plus, have to think about what all you'd be giving up.

But I think it makes some sense...Browns aren't going anywhere...Thomas has been in a terrible situation his whole career. He's older now. Browns could get a couple decent young players and some draft picks. Texans could get better on the oline for right now and the immediate future.
 
PapaL said:
Joe Thomas Injury History:

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/joe-thomas-player-injuries

Year - Week - Injury - Status
2015 - 17 - knee - Questionable
2015 - 16 - knee - Questionable
2015 - 15 - knee - Probable
2014 - 9 -not injury related - Probable
2013 - 17 - back - Probable
2013 - 16 - back - Probable
2013 - 15 - back - Probable
2013 - 6 - elbow - Probable

Turns 32 in December. Drafted in 2007

Salary Cap Info:
http://overthecap.com/player/joe-thomas/285/

2016: $9,500,000
2017: $10,000,000
2018: $10,000,000

These are the 3 cheapest years of his contract.
Click to expand...

Dang beat me to it.
 
PapaL said:
I believe their pass blocking is passable, it's more so on the run plays. Yes they engage their defenders but don't do anything afterward. There is zero movement and not a hole to be found; never mind getting to the second level. A stalemate at the LOS on a run play is a win for the defense. A stalemate on a pass play is a win for the offense...well it should be if the play calling isn't terrible and your QB isn't crapping the bed.
Click to expand...

Again, I don't know. In a ZBS, yeah, that makes sense. But in a power run game, I can see where a stalemate could be a win for the interior guys. Like if the LG is supposed to pull around to the left side, a stalemate provided by the C & RG would be a win if the LG gets around & blows the LB out of the hole created between the RG & RT.

Also, there's a play in that video at 9:01, Blue is in the backfield with Brock. He's lined up on Brocks left, takes the hand off running to the right. The line creates a wall, absolutely no penetration. If Blue would continue running to the right, he's got an easy five or six yards (running at an angle) & he's got two blockers ahead of him. Could have been a big gain, but he (like Miller) decides to dive into the line.

On that play, looks like a win for us if there's no penetration & Blue stays on his track running to the sideline.
 
PapaL said:
I believe their pass blocking is passable, it's more so on the run plays. Yes they engage their defenders but don't do anything afterward. There is zero movement and not a hole to be found; never mind getting to the second level. A stalemate at the LOS on a run play is a win for the defense. A stalemate on a pass play is a win for the offense...well it should be if the play calling isn't terrible and your QB isn't crapping the bed.
Click to expand...

It looked to me like X and Mancz spent most of the game double teaming on pass plays. There were at least two stunts/delays in the first half where Mancz failed to read it and stay in his lane that let someone through the middle to hit Oz. As you pointed out there was zero movement on run plays, and both of their assignments were able to get a hand on the runner every play. X got away with a hold or two on pass plays when left by himself, and was destroyed by a spin move. Basically when either of the two were isolated they were in trouble, but the Vikings didn't test Mancz very often because their edge rush was working so well. Much like the Patriots it looked to me like they were content to play safe in the middle and bracket our outside receivers.

And that was tough to watch again, Oz looked pathetic.
 
thunderkyss said:
Again, I don't know. In a ZBS, yeah, that makes sense. But in a power run game, I can see where a stalemate could be a win for the interior guys. Like if the LG is supposed to pull around to the left side, a stalemate provided by the C & RG would be a win if the LG gets around & blows the LB out of the hole created between the RG & RT.

Also, there's a play in that video at 9:01, Blue is in the backfield with Brock. He's lined up on Brocks left, takes the hand off running to the right. The line creates a wall, absolutely no penetration. If Blue would continue running to the right, he's got an easy five or six yards (running at an angle) & he's got two blockers ahead of him. Could have been a big gain, but he (like Miller) decides to dive into the line.

On that play, looks like a win for us if there's no penetration & Blue stays on his track running to the sideline.
Click to expand...

Direct link to the play we're talking about:

What I see is what we usually see for Blue. Take the handoff and runs right into the back of his OL. Had Blue right that out to the right #54 was waiting there, you see him come in at the very end of that run. A wall is great on a pass play but on a run now the runner either runs into the wall or has to run his ass off to get to the edge and beat one unblocked defender. We all know that isn't Blue's game. I cannot understand why we keep trying the same thing over and over and failing. Runs up the middle have gotten us damn near nothing all season. Have we run from a formation besides shotgun? Is Prosch even on the roster still?!?
 
Wolf6151 said:
With all the O-line issues this team is having this year, where the hell is Tony Bergstrom? Why isn't he playing and why couldn't a veteran FA that we're paying good money to beat out a 2nd year UDFA? Is he injured?
Click to expand...

Another Rick Smith move.
 
Scooter said:
It looked to me like X and Mancz spent most of the game double teaming on pass plays. There were at least two stunts/delays in the first half where Mancz failed to read it and stay in his lane that let someone through the middle to hit Oz. As you pointed out there was zero movement on run plays, and both of their assignments were able to get a hand on the runner every play. X got away with a hold or two on pass plays when left by himself, and was destroyed by a spin move. Basically when either of the two were isolated they were in trouble, but the Vikings didn't test Mancz very often because their edge rush was working so well. Much like the Patriots it looked to me like they were content to play safe in the middle and bracket our outside receivers.

And that was tough to watch again, Oz looked pathetic.
Click to expand...

Agreed

Looks ;ike XSF is going to be a bust.

Depression= Could have been Jimmy G

Great pick Rick and I called at that time.
 
Hervoyel said:
You know, if you're the Houston Texans and that rumor has any truth at all to it how in the hell do you not go get Joe Thomas? Quality linemen have long careers barring injury and him finishing his career here would buy the Texans much needed time to address their line plus he's just a year older than Duane Brown.

Add to that the fact that we rarely get more than 3-4 years out of players we draft anyway and I think it's a hell of a plan.
Click to expand...

Which is why Bob/Cal/Rick will never take a risk like that.

It will cost $$$$ and that isn't going to happen.
 
The Texans are paying Tony Bergstrom 2.5m a year to warm the bench with is butt, and as a veteran FA he couldn't beat out a 2nd year, essentially a rookie, UDFA making 527K. Also where is Oday Aboushi, he looked good last year in fill in duty. Why isn't Aboushi getting playing time, he's on the active roster?
 
Wolf6151 said:
The Texans are paying Tony Bergstrom 2.5m a year to warm the bench with is butt, and as a veteran FA he couldn't beat out a 2nd year, essentially a rookie, UDFA making 527K. Also where is Oday Aboushi, he looked good last year in fill in duty. Why isn't Aboushi getting playing time, he's on the active roster?
Click to expand...

Greg Mancz may have gone undrafted, but he's a talented & capable prospect. if not for injury issues his last two years of college, he'd have been drafted... 3rd, maybe 2nd round.

if they aren't swapping OLmen like you suggest, it's probably because they like what they see.

pass blocking I think the line is passable. Brock needs a better feel for when he's in trouble & when he isn't. And he needs to beat them when he's in trouble more times than not if it's ever going to get better.

An upgrade at the tackle positions would be nice, but not likely to happen mid season. We're going to have to scheme help like most other teams do.
 
steelbtexan said:
Kirwanon NFLN today said Cleveland was looking to trade Joe Thomas. He said the asking price was 2017 2nd and a 2018 4th that could turn into a conditional 3rd. I believe Thomas has 3 yrs left on his contract.

A line of Tomas/Newton/Mancz/Allen/Brown looks alot better than what they're currently putting out there. Then in 2017 a line of Thomas/Newton/Martin/Brown or draft pick looks like the kind of OL that there would be no excuses for OS.
Click to expand...
3 years left including 2016 & turns 32 Dec 4th. $26 million left as base salary. Browns should have grabbed offer from Denver 2015 trade deadline for their 1st and 2nd for Thomas + a 4th. They must have lots of trust in Spencer Drango. I just don't know...he is 9 year pro bowler with 6 all pro and if we could make trade immediately to get most of three season out of him...I am :overreact:after Ed Reed for any many year vet with big buck contract. Jeff Allen is only adding more concern. D. Brown got way more snaps than I had anticipated & I've not seen any (-) results. I don't see any value to reworking Thomas deal. He is reasonable contract for starting LT but would he be that for 2 2/3 seasons?:fortune:

I am still not very excited by left tackles in 2017 draft. I am mocking DE for first round and LTs in third and fourth so losing second round would be a reasonable risk. Man, I could argue either way.
 
Wolf6151 said:
The Texans are paying Tony Bergstrom 2.5m a year to warm the bench with is butt, and as a veteran FA he couldn't beat out a 2nd year, essentially a rookie, UDFA making 527K. Also where is Oday Aboushi, he looked good last year in fill in duty. Why isn't Aboushi getting playing time, he's on the active roster?
Click to expand...
IIRC about two games ago PFF rated Aboushi as Texans best OG so I agree why didn't he replace Allen who was out rather than move Newton to LG & put Lamm at RT? Again if Aboushi is better than Su'a Fila...of course that is PFF not coaches evaluation. So far I give our FA pick ups Os, Miller, Allen, Bergstrum and Devon Still (foot surgery) a 'C' at best. Ninja get a pass for only one game.
 
Aboushi I think is banged up with a foot injury but I agree, if healthy he should be starting or at the very least be on the active roster considering he can play tackle and guard and especially considering the fact that he played very well last year and the fact that PFF had him as the highest rated guard in football this preseason PERIOD. So like I said, if he's hurt there's nothing you can do about it but I don't think he's been hurt the entire season, so that's on the coaching staff. They need to get their head out of their asses soon.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top