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We are number 1

stingray said:
Reggie white minus the heart.
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I don't know about the heart. I have watched 4 Ole Miss games this year and I was far more impressed with Nkemdiche's freshman year than anything I saw in Clowny's freshman year. I'm predicting Nkemdiche to be the #1 pick in the 2016 draft.
 
Texian said:
I don't know about the heart. I have watched 4 Ole Miss games this year and I was far more impressed with Nkemdiche's freshman year than anything I saw in Clowny's freshman year. I'm predicting Nkemdiche to be the #1 pick in the 2016 draft.
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I think he's trying to claim Clowney doesn't have the heart for football. :kubepalm:
 
Texian said:
I don't know about the heart. I have watched 4 Ole Miss games this year and I was far more impressed with Nkemdiche's freshman year than anything I saw in Clowny's freshman year. I'm predicting Nkemdiche to be the #1 pick in the 2016 draft.
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He very well could be.

But you're understating Clowney. He had 12 TFL and 8 sacks as a true freshman. 23.5 TFL and 13 sacks as a soph. In a scheme where he would rotate between a 43 strong end and a 34 weak end.

Nkemdiche has 8 TFL and 1 sack.

They play different positions so the numbers are obviously lower for Robert. Nkemdiche shows awesome skills and plenty of potential. Has played very well. But Clowney was killing SEC linemen.
 
I'm salivating at the possibility of Clowney & Watt on the same field. Imagine the luxury of applying pressure w/o blitzing. Every QB & OC won't sleep well in the weeks leading up to the game against the Texans.
 
What if Clowney decides he is going nowhere on this Texans team and does not want to get hurt? Rookie contracts are not what they used to be so why not take it easy and turn it on later for a new contract?
 
badboy said:
What if Clowney decides he is going nowhere on this Texans team and does not want to get hurt? Rookie contracts are not what they used to be so why not take it easy and turn it on later for a new contract?
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Because Clowney will have to produce or he wont get that contract.
 
badboy said:
So as the #1 NFL pick he gets no upfront bonus or guaranteed money? He can produce some at 50% as he has in college. He was not benched or cut or even disciplined.
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I'm talking about the big $$$$ 2nd contract.
 
badboy said:
So as the #1 NFL pick he gets no upfront bonus or guaranteed money? He can produce some at 50% as he has in college. He was not benched or cut or even disciplined.
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No, #1 picks usually get their entire contract GTD and that's in the neighborhood of $20 mil.
 
Texian said:
No, #1 picks usually get their entire contract GTD and that's in the neighborhood of $20 mil.
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Exactly my point! So we risk that on a guy who might show up at game time or might not? IMO, we have to hit on our first round pick and much more so than we did with Mercilus. I want an impact player that has proven in college that he plays 100%, one hundred percent of time. I don't want to wait for the pick's second year (if that soon) to beat out anyone ahead of him. Bridgewater. I think there are only two players ranked in first round that are as close to guaranteed day one starter for many years. C J Mosley and Jake Matthews. Hopefully both can be had after trading down a bit.
 
badboy said:
Exactly my point! So we risk that on a guy who might show up at game time or might not? IMO, we have to hit on our first round pick and much more so than we did with Mercilus. I want an impact player that has proven in college that he plays 100%, one hundred percent of time. I don't want to wait for the pick's second year (if that soon) to beat out anyone ahead of him. Bridgewater. I think there are only two players ranked in first round that are as close to guaranteed day one starter for many years. C J Mosley and Jake Matthews. Hopefully both can be had after trading down a bit.
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Jake Mathews will get lit up if he starts at LT his rookie season.
 
badboy said:
Exactly my point! So we risk that on a guy who might show up at game time or might not?
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Like SteelB pointed out, if he wants his next contract to be worth $100 million that's not likely to happen. What do think JJ's next contract will be worth?
 
Nothing about Clowney's tape suggests he doesn't show up at games, stop swallowing that media narrative wholesale.
 
badboy said:
So as the #1 NFL pick he gets no upfront bonus or guaranteed money? He can produce some at 50% as he has in college. He was not benched or cut or even disciplined.
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The number 1 pick this year should get about 4 years 23 million completely guaranteed. The split between salary and signing bonus is always negotiated, but it's generally about 50/50.

steelbtexan said:
Because Clowney will have to produce or he wont get that contract.
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Yeah, but some guys just don't think ahead like you're doing here. They get that 1st contract, get a signing bonus, and it goes to their heads. Clowney strikes me as the kind of guy where that would happen. He will show up his rookie year, decline years 2&3, then wake up in year 4 when he's due for a new contract. It's the Albert Haynesworth model.

I could see him end up like Mario Williams too. An athletic freak of nature, but lacks the heart and competitive drive to be the best he can be.
 
Texian said:
Like SteelB pointed out, if he wants his next contract to be worth $100 million that's not likely to happen. What do think JJ's next contract will be worth?
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Not as much as you and others do. It is quite possible he will not get a new contract for at least three more years and contracts will continue to dwindle as players and teams adjust to new cap restrictions.
 
Dutchrudder said:
He has 35 tackles, 10.5 TFL, 3 sacks and 1 FF through 11 games this year. Compare that to last year when he totaled 40 tackles, 13 sacks, 23 TFL and 3 FF. I think that sharp decline says a lot about him and validates the lack of conditioning reports.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jadeveon-clowney-1.html
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He also has the second-highest number of QB pressures, but even then my argument was about the tape. It would only take you ~8 minutes more to watch his Tennessee game from this year over the amount of time it took you to look up some stats. :smiliepalm:
 
badboy said:
Come on. No one has said to start him at LT. He is to play RT until Brown shifts or leaves. You have read that in several posts.
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I think he's responding to the fact that he's a LT prospect and you called him a day one starter. Is that just for us? Or for every team?

Obviously, if we draft Matthews he's playing RT for the foreseeable future. If someone else drafts him he's probably playing LT.

IIRC, Mussop has been on record before that he doesn't see Matthews as a "franchise LT". I personally think he's overrated as a prospect, but he's still a darn good player.
 
WolverineFan said:
I think he's responding to the fact that he's a LT prospect and you called him a day one starter. Is that just for us? Or for every team?

Obviously, if we draft Matthews he's playing RT for the foreseeable future. If someone else drafts him he's probably playing LT.

IIRC, Mussop has been on record before that he doesn't see Matthews as a "franchise LT". I personally think he's overrated as a prospect, but he's still a darn good player.
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Since the thread is about Texans, I just assumed all would know my comment about Mosley and Matthews is directed at us drafting him to play RT. All of us on this thread have read all the mocks and most of talk about Matthews playing RT for Texans and moving to LT when Brown no longer there.
 
bhsman said:
He also has the second-highest number of QB pressures, but even then my argument was about the tape. It would only take you ~8 minutes more to watch his Tennessee game from this year over the amount of time it took you to look up some stats. :smiliepalm:
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I could, but Tennessee isn't exactly tough competition. It certainly was a tough game for SC, but that doesn't mean it was a true test of Clowney's abilities. He had some good plays in that game for sure, and I'm not saying he isn't a great college player, but there are reasonable questions about him coming into the NFL.

He didn't seem like a number 1 overall pick in the Mizzou game, very Mario Williams-like to me. He eats up TEs and RBs when they are 1v1 on him, does OK vs OTs 1v1, but his overall effort leaves a lot to be desired. Every time they run a play away from him, he just kind of jogs towards the area of the ball. Several times it seems he could have saved some yards if he had put more effort into getting to the runners area, but he didn't seem to care. That's where all the motor questions come from, and then add to that his offseason conditioning questions and you have a lot of risk with this guy. The "Will he give a ****?" question is always important when selecting 1st rounders.

To me it's all going to be mental questions with him. He clearly has the tools and athleticism to be a top 5 DE/OLB in this league, but I don't know if he has the will power to be all he can be. I think the Texans will pass on him, but I bet Atlanta ends up picking him in the top 5. Might be a nice fit for him being so close to where he played in college.

All JDC snaps from Mizzou game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb-8ePTyOnQ
 
Seeing some of Clowney's post-game comments after losing a game makes me wonder if the Texans would even draft him. The guy might not even love playing football.
 
Dutchrudder said:
I could, but Tennessee isn't exactly tough competition. It certainly was a tough game for SC, but that doesn't mean it was a true test of Clowney's abilities. He had some good plays in that game for sure, and I'm not saying he isn't a great college player, but there are reasonable questions about him coming into the NFL.

He didn't seem like a number 1 overall pick in the Mizzou game, very Mario Williams-like to me. He eats up TEs and RBs when they are 1v1 on him, does OK vs OTs 1v1, but his overall effort leaves a lot to be desired. Every time they run a play away from him, he just kind of jogs towards the area of the ball. Several times it seems he could have saved some yards if he had put more effort into getting to the runners area, but he didn't seem to care. That's where all the motor questions come from, and then add to that his offseason conditioning questions and you have a lot of risk with this guy. The "Will he give a ****?" question is always important when selecting 1st rounders.

To me it's all going to be mental questions with him. He clearly has the tools and athleticism to be a top 5 DE/OLB in this league, but I don't know if he has the will power to be all he can be. I think the Texans will pass on him, but I bet Atlanta ends up picking him in the top 5. Might be a nice fit for him being so close to where he played in college.

All JDC snaps from Mizzou game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb-8ePTyOnQ
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You make very good points in this post and I don't disagree with you. I will merely point out that the bolded above is not quite true concerning Clowney. Tennessee might have the best tandem of OT's in the country.
 
WolverineFan said:
I think he's responding to the fact that he's a LT prospect and you called him a day one starter. Is that just for us? Or for every team?

Obviously, if we draft Matthews he's playing RT for the foreseeable future. If someone else drafts him he's probably playing LT.

IIRC, Mussop has been on record before that he doesn't see Matthews as a "franchise LT". I personally think he's overrated as a prospect, but he's still a darn good player.
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Thank you, that is exactly what I meant. And if he's not a franchise LT there is no way he is worth the first pick especially if you plan on playing him at RT. I do believe he is a very good player and could possibly turn into a highly rated OL. Right now he needs a great combine if he want to go top ten.
 
I guess ESPN would love us at no. 1 maybe a reversal..just show our offensive with no quarterback. ...and caption"what does your team need?"
 
WolverineFan said:
I think he's responding to the fact that he's a LT prospect and you called him a day one starter. Is that just for us? Or for every team?

Obviously, if we draft Matthews he's playing RT for the foreseeable future. If someone else drafts him he's probably playing LT.

IIRC, Mussop has been on record before that he doesn't see Matthews as a "franchise LT". I personally think he's overrated as a prospect, but he's still a darn good player.
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I think Mattews is just like his dad. He can play LT/RT more than adequately. But Mattews would be a HOF OG.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think Mattews is just like his dad. He can play LT/RT more than adequately. But Mattews would be a HOF OG.
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Hate to say this but, this will work in our favor. With The recent injuries and Mariota returning to school, it makes the healthy QB's available even more valuable. That is If our NEW coaching staff doesn't feel comfortable with drafting a QB first.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Yeah guys, listen to Texian. Nobody in the NFL is scouting college players during the season, or watching their games, or making up their draft boards. Nobody does any of that until March, when the NFL season is over. That's when they buckle down and get to work. It's not like these NFL teams have dozens of scouts and an entire division devoted to doing stuff like that! Take it from this guy, he's got an Insider subscription to ESPN, so he knows what he's talking about!
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FYI - I don't just make stuff up or post ad hominem. I watch many NFL related shows and read numerous Internet articles. I get most of my information from former GMs and HCs, Pioli, Casserly, Angelo, Devaney, Savage, Billick, Mariuci, Gruden, Edwards, Parcels, Johnson etc. and I also follow a couple of former scouts.

Example: http://sulia.com/channel/football/f/c7b8e011-f46f-488a-90a8-7b8ed78bc550/?source=twitter

What I have learned from reading/watching these guys over the years.

Not to long after the NFL draft, College Scouting Departments begin their preparation for the upcoming year. Up through and the completion of the Bowl Games scouts are evaluating, preparing and cataloging their respective scouting reports on players who were eligible for the next draft when the new seasons start. Beginning with the first underclassmen declarations until The Combine, scouts then begin the process of evaluating, preparing and cataloging underclassmen who have declared for the draft. After the Bowl Games and prior to The Combine is when team draft boards begin to take their initial shape. The end of February, College Scouting along with GMs and HCs are in Indy for The Combine. After the Combine, draft boards, as discussed by Jerry Angelo, make their biggest shifts. March the scouts are attending Pro Days and polishing their reports. After the Pro Days and before the Draft is when most teams final draft board are set.
 
Texian said:
FYI - I don't just make stuff up or post ad hominem. I watch many NFL related shows and read numerous Internet articles. I get most of my information from former GMs and HCs, Pioli, Casserly, Angelo, Devaney, Savage, Billick, Mariuci, Gruden, Edwards, Parcels, Johnson etc. and I also follow a couple of former scouts.

Example: http://sulia.com/channel/football/f/c7b8e011-f46f-488a-90a8-7b8ed78bc550/?source=twitter

What I have learned from reading/watching these guys over the years.

Not to long after the NFL draft, College Scouting Departments begin their preparation for the upcoming year. Up through and the completion of the Bowl Games scouts are evaluating, preparing and cataloging their respective scouting reports on players who were eligible for the next draft when the new seasons start. Beginning with the first underclassmen declarations until The Combine, scouts then begin the process of evaluating, preparing and cataloging underclassmen who have declared for the draft. After the Bowl Games and prior to The Combine is when team draft boards begin to take their initial shape. The end of February, College Scouting along with GMs and HCs are in Indy for The Combine. After the Combine, draft boards, as discussed by Jerry Angelo, make their biggest shifts. March the scouts are attending Pro Days and polishing their reports. After the Pro Days and before the Draft is when most teams final draft board are set.
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[IMGwidthsize=400]http://i.imgur.com/du4xsyT.jpg[/IMG]
 
The more I think about it , the more I don't want the #1 overall pick.

I don't see a player at any position that's worthy of the distinction at least as to how they fit on the current roster.

Bridgewater - Just don't think he's a "Franchise QB" , might be above average but not elite.

Clowney - Oh FFS .... what a waste of talent. If he has a motor , it came out of a moped.

Matthews - #1 overall for a RT ? (Sure he will eventually move to LT but still).

Anthony Barr - I think he's over rated.

Manziel - Boom or Bust , just too great a risk for the #1 pick.

Jace Amaro - Not for a TE.

Derek Carr - You have to be kidding me right ?!

C.J. Mosley - Might be the best football player in this draft but can you really spend the #1 pick on a guy who probably plays ILB ??

Ifo Ekpre-Olomu - Sure , the best CB in this draft but no where near being the best player or biggest impact.

Louis Nix - See Olomu.

Mike Evans - Another 1st round WR ??? I'd consider him if there weren't so damn many other holes to fill.

The quarterbacks just don't excite me. The "physical Freak" of this draft .... doesn't care and nothing else really fits.


I'd really like to see them move down in the draft somewhere around 8-10 pending the compensation is worth the move. (1+2 this year and at least another 1 next year)

@ 8 give me Mosely
@ 33 give me Antonio Richardson (OT - Tenn.)
@ 40 Shayne Skov


I'll take a QB in the 3rd and sign a veteran in FA ....
 
bhsman said:
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh OK buddy
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Hey , his own statements back that up .... I know he's your boy and all .... but he's been his own worst enemy in this process.

Yes , he's a physical freak with a questionable motor. There is the potential of him doing the same thing once he turns pro - only playing up to his capability in a contract year.
 
Becoming a shame that Mariota returns to college.

I hope some other team falls stupid in love with Teddy at 1/1.
 
Corrosion said:
Hey , his own statements back that up .... I know he's your boy and all .... but he's been his own worst enemy in this process.

Yes , he's a physical freak with a questionable motor. There is the potential of him doing the same thing once he turns pro - only playing up to his capability in a contract year.
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Feel free to quote these incriminating statements, then.
 
Texian said:
Hey DR, after you've watched the NFL for another 30+ years, you will know a lot more about the NFL. And that will be much more than you know today! :)
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Do you have any idea how dumb you sound throughout this thread? You jumped on a guy for making a simple generalization about the scouting community liking Bridgewater as the current top QB in the 2014 draft, which is an innocuous statement that really does seem to be the consensus. The guy is apparently well connected with scouting folks around the league (actual people), so you ignore that and continue onward with this silly meaningless crusade. Then we come full circle to your "sources" of knowledge, and it's ****ing Twitter feeds of select NFL related folks. Congrats, you fail.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Do you have any idea how dumb you sound throughout this thread? You jumped on a guy for making a simple generalization about the scouting community liking Bridgewater as the current top QB in the 2014 draft, which is an innocuous statement that really does seem to be the consensus. The guy is apparently well connected with scouting folks around the league (actual people), so you ignore that and continue onward with this silly meaningless crusade. Then we come full circle to your "sources" of knowledge, and it's ****ing Twitter feeds of select NFL related folks. Congrats, you fail.
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No offense to you if I choose to believe what Bill Polian, Scott Pioli, Charlie Casserly, Brian Billick, Steve Mariuci, Bill Parcels, Jimmy Johnson, Herm Edwards, Mike Mayock, Jay Glazer, Adam Schefter, dozens of NFL players, former NFL scouts have to say on many different TV SHOWS, media outlets, print articles along with your despised twitter over anything YOU and other message board hacks bring to the table. Your comments are a waste of time compared to what they have to say along with all their knowledge and experience.
 
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Texans fans are turning on each other.

The thing is Rick was Garys hand picked guy. He turned on Gary to save his own job. (Yet he touts his christian values. He should've gone down with the ship. As long as Rick runs this team it will never win a SB

Bets are now open and as proven you have an 8 yr window. Great job BoB

Instead of firing the people most responsible for this mess you fire Rick/Coach Joe.

Hope you enjoy your last decade BoB, just remember you cant take yor $$$$ with you.
 
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Corrosion said:
Hey , his own statements back that up .... I know he's your boy and all .... but he's been his own worst enemy in this process.

Yes , he's a physical freak with a questionable motor. There is the potential of him doing the same thing once he turns pro - only playing up to his capability in a contract year.
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Laziness is the hardest of all vices to break.
 
Texian said:
No offense to you if I choose to believe what Bill Polian, Scott Pioli, Charlie Casserly, Brian Billick, Steve Mariuci, Bill Parcels, Jimmy Johnson, Herm Edwards, Mike Mayock, Jay Glazer, Adam Schefter, dozens of NFL players, former NFL scouts have to say on many different TV SHOWS, media outlets, print articles along with your despised twitter over anything YOU and other message board hacks bring to the table. Your comments are a waste of time compared to what they have to say along with all their knowledge and experience.
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None of those people has ever said the scouting departments don't have rankings at all until tada its time to put the final draft order together. I don't care if it is little stars in the corner of the page with their notes on a player or talk over the water cooler about who they like better after last weekends games this whole process is geared toward evaluating and ranking.

You're acting like a child and its obvious.
 
Corrosion said:
The more I think about it , the more I don't want the #1 overall pick.

I don't see a player at any position that's worthy of the distinction at least as to how they fit on the current roster.

Bridgewater - Just don't think he's a "Franchise QB" , might be above average but not elite.

Clowney - Oh FFS .... what a waste of talent. If he has a motor , it came out of a moped.

Matthews - #1 overall for a RT ? (Sure he will eventually move to LT but still).

Anthony Barr - I think he's over rated.

Manziel - Boom or Bust , just too great a risk for the #1 pick.

Jace Amaro - Not for a TE.

Derek Carr - You have to be kidding me right ?!

C.J. Mosley - Might be the best football player in this draft but can you really spend the #1 pick on a guy who probably plays ILB ??

Ifo Ekpre-Olomu - Sure , the best CB in this draft but no where near being the best player or biggest impact.

Louis Nix - See Olomu.

Mike Evans - Another 1st round WR ??? I'd consider him if there weren't so damn many other holes to fill.

The quarterbacks just don't excite me. The "physical Freak" of this draft .... doesn't care and nothing else really fits.


I'd really like to see them move down in the draft somewhere around 8-10 pending the compensation is worth the move. (1+2 this year and at least another 1 next year)

@ 8 give me Mosely
@ 33 give me Antonio Richardson (OT - Tenn.)
@ 40 Shayne Skov


I'll take a QB in the 3rd and sign a veteran in FA ....
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I think we can get more from Browns than #8 and their second. I have #33 Cyril Richardson currently slotted OG in NFL but he was LT in 2012 for RG3 and should be able to resolve RT and push Q for LG if one of our roster guys can win RT.
 
badboy said:
I think we can get more from Browns than #8 and their second.
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That's just compensation from this years draft .... I'd expect no less than those two picks and a future first (would like two future #1's along with those picks).
 
Corrosion said:
That's just compensation from this years draft .... I'd expect no less than those two picks and a future first (would like two future #1's along with those picks).
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yep but we have to think like CLeveland and make the deal easy to swallow. Washington got #2 pick for 2012 first and second and first in 2013 and 2014. I think we need picks now especially with deep second and third rounds in 2014 with our needs. If they get #1 and keep their own second # 40, I could see them giving up both 8 & 25 their thirds and a first in 2015. I think that RG3 is having problems is going to lessen urge for a team to make that kind of deal.
 
badboy said:
yep but we have to think like CLeveland and make the deal easy to swallow. Washington got #2 pick for 2012 first and second and first in 2013 and 2014. I think we need picks now especially with deep second and third rounds in 2014 with our needs. If they get #1 and keep their own second # 40, I could see them giving up both 8 & 25 their thirds and a first in 2015. I think that RG3 is having problems is going to lessen urge for a team to make that kind of deal.
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In order for that trade to be offered, you would need at least two teams to be bidding for the pick. The only reason STL got so much for RG3 was due to the Browns bidding. If that happens, then great, but I wouldn't count on it. Although, it was rumored early this season that Josh Gordon was available. What if Cleveland offered #8 and Gordon for the #1? He's a phenomenal player, even if we don't really need him.
 
infantrycak said:
None of those people has ever said the scouting departments don't have rankings at all until tada its time to put the final draft order together. I don't care if it is little stars in the corner of the page with their notes on a player or talk over the water cooler about who they like better after last weekends games this whole process is geared toward evaluating and ranking.

You're acting like a child and its obvious.
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Chalk up one more who doesn't have a clue about what they're taking about. Who is posting childish Willy Wonks pictures, get a clue chief. Tell us again chief why you insisted that Kubiak wouldn't get fired.
 
Dutchrudder said:
In order for that trade to be offered, you would need at least two teams to be bidding for the pick. The only reason STL got so much for RG3 was due to the Browns bidding. If that happens, then great, but I wouldn't count on it. Although, it was rumored early this season that Josh Gordon was available. What if Cleveland offered #8 and Gordon for the #1? He's a phenomenal player, even if we don't really need him.
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:hurrah: My fantasy football team's savior
 
badboy said:
I have #33 Cyril Richardson currently slotted OG in NFL but he was LT in 2012 for RG3
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No I do not believe that is right. He played LG when RG3 was there. He didn't move to LT until this year. He will go high as a guard unless he shows really good agility and footwork at the combine. I think he's going to be a really really good guard. I wanted us to draft him last year if he came out.
 
Texian said:
Chalk up one more who doesn't have a clue about what they're taking about. Who is posting childish Willy Wonks pictures, get a clue chief. Tell us again chief why you insisted that Kubiak wouldn't get fired.
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Well since I never said that I have nothing to explain. The only thing I was wrong on was I thought McNair would wait until after the season to fire him.
 
Dutchrudder said:
In order for that trade to be offered, you would need at least two teams to be bidding for the pick. The only reason STL got so much for RG3 was due to the Browns bidding. If that happens, then great, but I wouldn't count on it. Although, it was rumored early this season that Josh Gordon was available. What if Cleveland offered #8 and Gordon for the #1? He's a phenomenal player, even if we don't really need him.
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I would want a 2014 3rd and a 2015 1st. Gordon although talented is 1 strike away from being suspended for a yr.
 
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