Watt overrated/overhyped?

[Dre_80]

You know that sometimes the OL slides protection from side to side... once in a while they even audible blocking schemes

Um, defenses actually counter that by doing the exact same thing so they always have a leg up on you either way. Besides, most QB's don't even have the ability or the freedom to just change plays so even if Watt is unblocked and it's blatantly obvious he's gonna rock your QB the offense just goes right ahead and snaps the ball. The RT or LT will just let him walk by. Not saying that's what happens with Watt, but this happens all the time especially with young QB's.

 

[Dre_80]

Well Strahan did become the all time sack leader by facing the inferior tackle on every team he faced.... but of course he wasn't overrated/overhyped at any point

Strahan was strictly a LE. He lined up on the strong side all the time, he didn't pick the weakest link or the worst lineman and went after him, whether that's a LG, C or RG. He didn't move around at all so it was pretty easy to scheme for him.

 

[JB]

Strahan was strictly a LE. He lined up on the strong side all the time, he didn't pick the weakest link or the worst lineman and went after him, whether that's a LG, C or RG. He didn't move around at all so it was pretty easy to scheme for him.

Ummm, he didn't line up on the strong side all the time... he lined up on the left side all the time and went against either the RT or possibly the TE all the time. I didn't say worst lineman, I said worst tackle, and surely you agree that the RT is inferior to the LT on any given team with the possible exception of a team with a left handed QB.

 

[JB]

Um, defenses actually counter that by doing the exact same thing so they always have a leg up on you either way. Besides, most QB's don't even have the ability or the freedom to just change plays so even if Watt is unblocked and it's blatantly obvious he's gonna rock your QB the offense just goes right ahead and snaps the ball. The RT or LT will just let him walk by. Not saying that's what happens with Watt, but this happens all the time especially with young QB's.

One of the big grievances people had with Kubiak is the perception that the QB couldn't audible as most QB's could. And most teams have their defense shift around. You're acting like Watt is the only player in the league that plays multiple positions on the DL. Teams have been doing it for years

 

[Marshall]

I just went over the Jets game and he didn't do anything against their LT (Ferguson) or C (Mangold). He destroyed their RT (can't even spell his name) and the TE. Bengals? They have a great LT in Whithworth. So who did Watt line up against? Of course, their rookie backup RT. Who pretty much held him in check the entire game. If he wants to prove that he's the best he should go against the best and not avoid them. If he'd just line up on the right side vs the LT that would actually help out Crick, Clowney and Mercilus a ton...

Different goals. His job is to disrupt the offense. Not to secure bragging rights. He's the best at his job, even if you prefer the bragging rights championship.

 

[Scooter]

One of the big grievances people had with Kubiak is the perception that the QB couldn't audible as most QB's could. And most teams have their defense shift around. You're acting like Watt is the only player in the league that plays multiple positions on the DL. Teams have been doing it for years

A misconception that I think you're eluding to. While the call didn't change very often, since play design and route combinations were built to handle multiple situations, there were always 1 or 2 audible outlets available pre-snap. Also, line calls were made by the center instead of the quarterback. That's why Myers was such a Kubiak favorite (his Brad Ausmus), and also why you didn't see Schaub at the line barking orders.

 

[JB]

A misconception that I think you're eluding to. While the call didn't change very often, since play design and route combinations were built to handle multiple situations, there were always 1 or 2 audible outlets available pre-snap. Also, line calls were made by the center instead of the quarterback. That's why Myers was such a Kubiak favorite (his Brad Ausmus), and also why you didn't see Schaub at the line barking orders.

Yes I know it was a misconception, but many thought it a hard and fast rule that Kubiak had. My point was that almost all QB's audible to some degree to counter Dre_80's argument that "most QB's don't even have the ability or the freedom to just change plays "

 

[El Tejano]

Does anyone else take into consideration that offenses run the play away from Watt and he still makes the play?

Also the defensive fronts vs the Saints were pretty bad ass to get Mercilus and Clowney on the same field and that is what also forced Watt to different sides of the line. I guess you have to be on Dallas, NY Jets, Patriots or be Aaron Rodgers for NFL.com/Network to not question your ability.

 

[Scooter]

Does anyone else take into consideration that offenses run the play away from Watt and he still makes the play?

Also the defensive fronts vs the Saints were pretty bad ass to get Mercilus and Clowney on the same field and that is what also forced Watt to different sides of the line. I guess you have to be on Dallas, NY Jets, Patriots or be Aaron Rodgers for NFL.com/Network to not question your ability.

Certainly, which is actually somewhat new. Watt's chaotic guessing (inexperience) allowed teams to take him out of the picture by running right at him, but this season he's really corrected that by penetrating within his gap. Teams are finding it increasingly harder to attack Watt head on, and he's still able to climb the pocket for backside tackles.

A defensive line with Watt, Mercilus and Clowney is where we're going to kill teams in the future. This is something I brought up a few weeks ago - Romeo is getting better with our personnel and fronts, creating better matchups and it's showing. He's still brain dead on the back end with his zone-prevent shells, but that dial can hopefully be turned up. I still like Watt inside instead of a linebacker (it's just pandering to have our 300lb DE looping around as the free rusher), but I love that Romeo is exploring the combinations and how to get our best players singled up.

 

[El Tejano]

Certainly, which is actually somewhat new. Watt's chaotic guessing (inexperience) allowed teams to take him out of the picture by running right at him, but this season he's really corrected that by penetrating within his gap. Teams are finding it increasingly harder to attack Watt head on, and he's still able to climb the pocket for backside tackles.

A defensive line with Watt, Mercilus and Clowney is where we're going to kill teams in the future. This is something I brought up a few weeks ago - Romeo is getting better with our personnel and fronts, creating better matchups and it's showing. He's still brain dead on the back end with his zone-prevent shells, but that dial can hopefully be turned up. I still like Watt inside instead of a linebacker (it's just pandering to have our 300lb DE looping around as the free rusher), but I love that Romeo is exploring the combinations and how to get our best players singled up.

So lets look at that because you will see that not only Watt is continuously getting doubled but so is a lot of other guys on that line:



Here is the new D formation (didn't see a lot of it vs Buffalo) that puts Clowney and Mercilus on the same field. We got Mercilus ROLB, Clowney is standing DE, Simon lined up over Center, Watt is DE... Pleasant is covering the TE if he slips off the Double Team on Watt...and an ublocked Cushing stays on the RB.



Merc gets a one on one with the LT, Clowney gets dbld by the center and LG, Simon takes the RG and Watt gets dbld by TE and RT...notice how Simon takes his man into the doubles on Clowney and they cluster 3 OLs in the middle. This keeps the triple team off Watt.



Then the TE slips out into coverage, this leaves Watt and Mercilus one on one, Clowney and Simon then stay to make Brees pump the ball bcuz Clowney and Simon jump into the pass lanes.....



Brees has to pull the ball down. Watt forces pressure causing Brees to intentionally ground the ball while getting sacked. This is what is allowing Watt not to get many "doubles" because of the attention teams still have to give Clowney and Mercilus.

 

[TejasTom]

White is the greatest defensive player I've ever seen including taylor. No way does a 300lbs defensive lineman suppose to have 100 tackles and 20 sacks. Watt in this span has bern almost that good. I mean when white got 20 sacks, they threw the ball 20 timed a game vs 35 like now.

And DBs could maul receivers past 5 yards.

 

[Scooter]

Awesome photos.

I'm biased or an a-hole or something, but I strongly dislike that we're sacrificing players to create ways to get Watt opportunities - he can get there on his own. In this example it works to free up both Watt and Mercilus. Fantastic design. That's very unlikely to happen again though - there's only so much novelty to go around. What I want to see a lot more of is what I read into your earlier post. Matching these 3 pass rushers up. For me that's Watt at LDE, Clowney at ROLB and Mercilus at LOLB. If we're as good as we should be - the phrase 'you can't double everybody' comes into play. Let these guys attack. If teams are forced to keep an extra man or two in to block, we should win the down. Seeing our 300lb end in the wide position with our burst linebacker (Clowney was killing Watt off the line) lined up inside is pandering.

 

[El Tejano]

So

Awesome photos.

I'm biased or an a-hole or something, but I strongly dislike that we're sacrificing players to create ways to get Watt opportunities - he can get there on his own. In this example it works to free up both Watt and Mercilus. Fantastic design. That's very unlikely to happen again though - there's only so much novelty to go around. What I want to see a lot more of is what I read into your earlier post. Matching these 3 pass rushers up. For me that's Watt at LDE, Clowney at ROLB and Mercilus at LOLB. If we're as good as we should be - the phrase 'you can't double everybody' comes into play. Let these guys attack. If teams are forced to keep an extra man or two in to block, we should win the down. Seeing our 300lb end in the wide position with our burst linebacker (Clowney was killing Watt off the line) lined up inside is pandering.

I did too but it is not working for our team. That's why teams like ATL and Miami were able to slice through us like a hot knife through butter.

Wanna know why our run d got better? Becuz we put Simon back to his natural position LOLB to set edges and force the run back inside. When Clowney is in and on the same side as Watt, they were putting Mercilus at Simons spot. Mercilus isn't a run stopping LB that sets the edge as well as Simon. If they ran the play away from Watt and Clowney, its an easy 5 yards becuz no edge is set and Cushing gets blocked.

Watch the film:


Above is our base...Simon up top LOLB, Mercilus ROLB at bottom with Watt inside Merc at RDE.



above, Simom now drops back to cover/draw the TE....



above, Simon then recognizes run and takes the angle to set the edge....something Mercilus and Watt have not been consistent at or done as well as Simon.



The TE blocks Simon out wide and look who isn't blocked (which he has been a different player due to these changes) and Mercilus has cut back containment.



Cushing fills the gap forcing Ingram to a waiting JJWatt. Nice recognition by the staff to see who is best at doing what over the bye and make the adjustment IMO.

 

[Txn_in_FL]

Maybe I'm crazy, but shouldn't your goal be to stack your best player against their worst to receive positive results?

 

[Texanmike02]

Well Strahan did become the all time sack leader by facing the inferior tackle on every team he faced.... but of course he wasn't overrated/overhyped at any point

Well, he had a gap in his teeth like no Dlineman before him.

 

[Texanmike02]

So lets look at that because you will see that not only Watt is continuously getting doubled but so is a lot of other guys on that line:

View attachment 698

Here is the new D formation (didn't see a lot of it vs Buffalo) that puts Clowney and Mercilus on the same field. We got Mercilus ROLB, Clowney is standing DE, Simon lined up over Center, Watt is DE... Pleasant is covering the TE if he slips off the Double Team on Watt...and an ublocked Cushing stays on the RB.

View attachment 699

Merc gets a one on one with the LT, Clowney gets dbld by the center and LG, Simon takes the RG and Watt gets dbld by TE and RT...notice how Simon takes his man into the doubles on Clowney and they cluster 3 OLs in the middle. This keeps the triple team off Watt.

View attachment 700

Then the TE slips out into coverage, this leaves Watt and Mercilus one on one, Clowney and Simon then stay to make Brees pump the ball bcuz Clowney and Simon jump into the pass lanes.....

View attachment 701

Brees has to pull the ball down. Watt forces pressure causing Brees to intentionally ground the ball while getting sacked. This is what is allowing Watt not to get many "doubles" because of the attention teams still have to give Clowney and Mercilus.

I like the screen shots but to make it easier for yourself you might consider using the snipping tool.

 

[Double Barrel]

Strahan was strictly a LE. He lined up on the strong side all the time, he didn't pick the weakest link or the worst lineman and went after him, whether that's a LG, C or RG. He didn't move around at all so it was pretty easy to scheme for him.

You're just wrong. Do some basic research before posting bogus information.

It's not hard to find a highlight reel of Strahan. First two sacks of his career were from different positions on the line.

Besides, you just sunk your own point. Strahan did line up a lot at LE, which means he was not consistently facing the best offensive lineman on the opposing team.

And then let's talk about his "historic" sack record gifted to him by Brett Favre...

 

[Dre_80]

It's not hard to find a highlight reel of Strahan. First two sacks of his career were from different positions on the line.

Good thing you ignored the other 15 years when he was strictly a LE and stuck with his first 2 career sacks when he was still a kid out of college without a true position just to somehow make it look like you're making sense. Hats off to you, great effort.

And I'm not sure what his sack record has anything to do with Watt and how we're using him. Strahan played LE, that's it. He didn't go against the best LT in the league but he didn't go after the weakest link either. That's the issue with Watt, he's not playing LE all the time, he just goes ahead and looks for the best matchups for him to put up big matchups, whether that's playing NT, DT, LE, RE, whatever it takes. So it's impossible to gameplan around a guy like that. With Strahan it was easy because he didn't move around, that's the point. You can put a TE or an extra TE on the right side and Strahan would be double teamed all game, have the RB chip him on his way out to disrupt him, all that stuff. You can't do that with Watt.

 

[JB]

Good thing you ignored the other 15 years when he was strictly a LE and stuck with his first 2 career sacks when he was still a kid out of college without a true position just to somehow make it look like you're making sense. Hats off to you, great effort.

And I'm not sure what his sack record has anything to do with Watt and how we're using him. Strahan played LE, that's it. He didn't go against the best LT in the league but he didn't go after the weakest link either. That's the issue with Watt, he's not playing LE all the time, he just goes ahead and looks for the best matchups for him to put up big matchups, whether that's playing NT, DT, LE, RE, whatever it takes. So it's impossible to gameplan around a guy like that. With Strahan it was easy because he didn't move around, that's the point. You can put a TE or an extra TE on the right side and Strahan would be double teamed all game, have the RB chip him on his way out to disrupt him, all that stuff. You can't do that with Watt.

Wait... are you saying Watt isn't double and triple teamed most of the time? Strahan certainly wasn't All the time. Do you watch the games or only read crap like MJD puts out?

 

[PapaL]

This was going to be my next avatar but whatever...

 

[speedfreek]

>Watt overrated/overhyped?

Depends.. If he can get me a big stack of buddy bucks when
he makes his next HEB commercial -- then no.

If not, then yes..

 

[Scooter]

Wandering Youtube and this struck me as 'I told you so'. Watt gets pressure outside repeatedly. He's able to hit the quarterback and knife inside on runs and as he says '64 can't block me'. 64 got abused all day, but didn't give up a sack. Watch the video, but be sure to note 5:05 and 5:30. Watt lines up inside at both LDE and RDE with Mercilus outside each time ... and that's where both sacks come from. Not hits, not hurries - those are his sacks. We continue to leave results in favor of finding a box. Pass rushers go outside, so obviously big and slow Watt needs to be at a wide 9 - no. Watt is the greatest, so obviously we need to have his OLB be an edge setter or a stunt partner - no. That's not what Mercilus is going to do, he's paid to get to the quarterback. Get Watt inside, let him out-quick and out-maneuver interior linemen, because he has the hands and hips and burst to destroy in short area. Not as a gimmick, but because that's why he's GOAT. Get Mercilus on one side to draw the tackle and Clowney on the other to draw containment. Free up each with creative blitzing, not by putting somebody on cheerleading duty because Watt is double teamed 30 yards from the quarterback.

Long Friday night, not entirely sure who's behind the wheel.