Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

Watson bad play thread

76Texan

Hall of Fame
A couple of members suggested it.
At least one, MrTex, even insisted that Watson should have known that they will blanketed his receivers and therefore, needed to go to the dump off right away, to give one of his two options (the RB and the TE) a chance to get some yards.

I use the Game Play Finder feature on PFR to look up similar situations to see how the other QBs performed.
I limited it to this year, saw a lot of plays, so I decided to narrow it down to Tom Brady first.

He had 4 such situations.
This was how they played out:

Buccaneers Panthers
2 1:01 3 15 TAM 26 Tom Brady pass complete short right to Ronald Jones for 2 yards (tackle by Rasul Douglas)
Buccs in 11P, TE strong left, 3 receivers Right (play side).
Screen pass to RB.
Buccs in 10P, 3 receivers Left, 1 receiver Right.
Up 21-0 late in the second half, the Buccs played it safe and called a screen pass.
Went nowhere.

...............................

3 4:56 3 15 CAR 46 Tom Brady pass incomplete short middle intended for Leonard Fournette
Buccs in 10P, 2 receivers on either side.
The Buccs set up another screen pass, up 21-7.
It still got snuffed off.

....................................................................................................

Buccaneers Broncos
3 6:49 3 16 TAM 27 Tom Brady pass complete short right to LeSean McCoy for 15 yards (tackle by P.J. Locke)
Buccs up 25-10

Buccs in 11P, TE strong left, XZ left, Y right.
3 deep routes, TE right flat left, RB left flat.

Brady did not go to the dump off right away.
He looked to go deep but no receiver was open.
He only went to dump off just before the 6:45 second mark (nearly 4 seconds off the play clock).
LeSean McCoy made it happen, but the fact here is that Brady never took the dump off right off the bat like Mr Tex suggested.
"That the QB should know the deep routes will be covered and take the dump off immediately, forgetting the first read".
That was NOT what happened here.

Brady had time to throw the ball, so he waited and waited.

........................................

4 10:51 3 28 TAM 10 Tom Brady pass complete deep middle to Scott Miller for 26 yards (tackle by Justin Simmons)
Buccs up 28-10

Buccs in 11P, TE strong Right, X left, YZ right.
TE stayed back to block, RB left flat, 3 deep routes.

Even backed up at his own 10 yards line, Brady went with one of the 3 deep routes;
he never even look at the dump off.
He had a clean pocket and the ball left his hand around the 3-sec mark.

.......................
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Next is Rogers, who had two chances.

Packers Saints 1 8:16
3 22 NOR 43 Aaron Rodgers pass complete short right to Robert Tonyan for 9 yards (tackle by Chauncey Gardner-Johnson)

Packers in empty shotgun
3 deep routes, 2 late flat routes to either side.

Rogers surveyed the field; nobody was open.
He waited until the pressure got close and didn't dump the ball off until at least 4 seconds had elapsed on the time clock.

..............................................

Packers Lions 3 9:30
3 20 DET 28 Aaron Rodgers sacked by Jamie Collins for -11 yards

Packers in 11P, TE strong right, XZ left, Y right.
X 8yd quick hook along the left sideline, Y deep route (look like a seam route on the same side), RB left flat, delayed released.
In another word, Rogers had 3 targets on the same line of sight, to his left.

He looked deep first, then went to the quick hook second, seeing that the defender had played off the X receiver.
It was only then that he attempted to throw a pass.
But the pressure came bursting in up the middle at the 3 second mark and got to him for a sack.

Again, Rogers did not look at the dump off first (the RB).
It was deep and then onto medium short on his progression.

....................................................................................
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Both Brady and Rogers had easy throws too, but they didn't take them early.
......no....No....NO!!! That's not the narrative!!! Only Watson makes those mistakes. All other NFL QB's (31) are successful and cognizant of their position.....only 1 fails to do the job on 9 of his passes. I really hope the Houston Watsons figure this out before it gets out of hand and someone possibly loses their job.
 
Last edited:

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Chiefs Texans
1 10:20 3 18 HTX 44 Patrick Mahomes pass incomplete short right intended for Demarcus Robinson

11P, TE strong right, X left, YZ right.
3 deep routes, one blocker, RB right flat.

Mahomes looked deep first, and did not go to the dump off until the 3-sec mark, when the pocket collapsed.
The ball was innacurate and way over the outstretched arm of the RB.

........................................................

Chiefs Chargers 3 4:04
3 25 KAN 50 Patrick Mahomes pass complete short left to Clyde Edwards-Helaire for 10 yards (tackle by Chris Harris and Nasir Adderley)

11P, TE strong right, XZ left, Y right.
Another 3 deep routes, one blocker, RB left flat.

Again, Mahomes looked deep first and didn't dump the ball off to the RB until more than 3 seconds had elapsed;
he DID NOT go to it right away.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
......no....No....NO!!! That's not the narrative!!! Only Watson makes those mistakes. All 31 QB's a cognizant of their position.....only 1 fails to do the job on 9 of his passes. I really hope the Houston Watsons figure this out before it gets out of hand.
Who has claimed only Watson makes those mistakes? We only discuss Watson because he's the Texans QB, neither Brady nor Rogers or any other is
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
The prerogative really lie mostly with MrTex and Corrosion who said that a good QB should know to dump that ball off early.
But as I had shown, great QBs don't even do it.
Difference is, neither Brady nor Rogers do it often
 

deucetx

Rookie
It was a third and long so sure he could have taken the dump off and left it to the offensive player to try and make it to a first down though each dump off opportunity had a tackler in position to prevent that. Four Steelers defenders were up top of the two underneath receivers who Watson could have dumped it to. As shown in the image below both options were at around 10 yards away from the first down marker with Steelers players in position.

1601488672049.png

So Watson could have done that which was unlikely to get the first down but it would have given us the opportunity at a field goal (maybe?). I disagree with Watson in saying the INT was like a punt because of this. I know our faith in our kicker isn't exceptional but Watson has to remember that part of the situation. Either way, he tried to make a play and pass beyond the sticks. But if folks went back and looked at the play, Kenny Stills completely slows down before the pass is made making it possible for the defensive back to step in front of him. The steps of hesitation and slowing down cost Stills a chance at a reception and opened the window for the DB.

I would put the interception more on Stills. At the same time it was a risky throw and Watson trying to make that play ended up costing the team a chance at least 3 points. Nothing huge to harp on Watson about as much as Stills though.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
It was a third and long so sure he could have taken the dump off and left it to the offensive player to try and make it to a first down though each dump off opportunity had a tackler in position to prevent that. Four Steelers defenders were up top of the two underneath receivers who Watson could have dumped it to. As shown in the image below both options were at around 10 yards away from the first down marker with Steelers players in position.

View attachment 6712

So Watson could have done that which was unlikely to get the first down but it would have given us the opportunity at a field goal (maybe?). I disagree with Watson in saying the INT was like a punt because of this. I know our faith in our kicker isn't exceptional but Watson has to remember that part of the situation. Either way, he tried to make a play and pass beyond the sticks. But if folks went back and looked at the play, Kenny Stills completely slows down before the pass is made making it possible for the defensive back to step in front of him. The steps of hesitation and slowing down cost Stills a chance at a reception and opened the window for the DB.

I would put the interception more on Stills. At the same time it was a risky throw and Watson trying to make that play ended up costing the team a chance at least 3 points. Nothing huge to harp on Watson about as much as Stills though.
He couldn't throw because the RDT was getting around the LG and ready to bat the ball down.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
The steps of hesitation and slowing down cost Stills a chance at a reception and opened the window for the DB.

I would put the interception more on Stills. At the same time it was a risky throw and Watson trying to make that play ended up costing the team a chance at least 3 points. Nothing huge to harp on Watson about as much as Stills though.
Watson also said the ball sailed on him (reportedly) so maybe Stills had to slow down to have a chance at it? The pass wasn't leading Stills to open territory
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
He didn't have to throw the ball at head height
I have no idea how he intended to throw (but didn't) that ball .
The fact remains that he wanted to, but pulled it back.

And, as I had also stated, even QBs like Brady, Rogers, and Mahomes, they always looked to go deep first before coming back to the second read in all the chances they had on third and 15 or longer this year.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Drew Brees.

Saints Buccaneers 3 6:28
3 15 NOR 50 Drew Brees pass incomplete short middle intended for Jared Cook
Saints leading 24-14

Empty shotgun, 2 left, 3 right.
RB left flat (from outside of LT), TE drag left (from outside RT)
Basically, this gave Brees two short routes to the left side of the field and 3 deep routes.

Brees looked deep, then pressure came within 2 seconds;
he had to take off and threw the ball away.
NO, Brees did not go to either of the short routes early.
...............................

Saints Packers
2 8:50 3 15 NOR 20 Drew Brees pass complete short left to Alvin Kamara for 21 yards (tackle by Darnell Savage)

Brees was looking downfield, but pressure came early so he dumped the ball off to the RB in the left flat.
Kamara made people missed.

Here, Brees was aware, but again, he did look deep first and didn't throw the pass until he saw the pressure coming on. He did not look to take the dump off first.

........................................................................................
Saints Raiders

3 6:33 3 22 NOR 49
Drew Brees pass complete short left to Ty Montgomery for 8 yards (tackle by Damon Arnette)

Saints set up a screen pass.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I mean, it's over and over again that we saw from all these great QBs.
That they all went to their first read deep before coming back to the second read.
I don't know how it can be any clearer.

Who knows, there might be instances in the past (last year or whatever) that they purposedly go to the dump off as their first read, but these examples are plenty enough.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
As did Watson, but it wasn't there so take the check down is what we've been saying. The other qb's do
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I wish he would have thrown the ball underneath. But I don’t think that one play was the pivotal play of the game. Those kind of plays happen all the time in the NFL.
Yep. I wish Watson would stop trying to be Superman all the time and stayed in his lane within this offensive system, simply to expose O'Brien's lack of creativity, lack of exceptional talent around Watson, and lack of overall dynamics in the scheme.

When Watson goes off script, it allows the debate to shift focus to his failures instead of allowing serious analysis of the misfit scheme itself.

There is no DC in the league worried about O'Brien's offensive system. What they worry about is the only playmaker on offense going off-script, and defenses try to force him to do it and he tends to go for the bait.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
Yep. I wish Watson would stop trying to be Superman all the time and stayed in his lane within this offensive system, simply to expose O'Brien's lack of creativity, lack of exceptional talent around Watson, and lack of overall dynamics in the scheme.

When Watson goes off script, it allows the debate to shift focus to his failures instead of allowing serious analysis of the misfit scheme itself.

There is no DC in the league worried about O'Brien's offensive system. What they worry about is the only playmaker on offense going off-script, and defenses try to force him to do it and he tends to go for the bait.
I agree. OB is the root of the problem. Always was and always will be. We saw his scheme when Savage, a 4 year qb who grew in this system, looked like in the first game when he was given the start. 7 years and I've seen enough of OB to keep giving him chances.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I agree. OB is the root of the problem. Always was and always will be. We saw his scheme when Savage, a 4 year qb who grew in this system, looked like in the first game when he was given the start. 7 years and I've seen enough of OB to keep giving him chances.
Man I have never seen these same people going off on Fitzpatrick, Hoyer, or any other quarterback that’s played in this broke back mountain of a system. The argument then was mainly on Rick Smith.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
He can't because he had to run for his life.
It was either throw the ball away (Punt) or throw deep (=Punt when unsuccesfull)
But you just said:

Slow it down to a crawl.
Look at the 3:16 mark.
Watson stepped up the pocket and tried to set up to pass.
He was in his throwing stance.
He was looking at the direction of both the TE and the deep route (they were both on his line of sight).
But he pulled the ball back.
It wasn't like he didn't want to throw the ball.
He had plenty of time to throw it after he stepped up and before he broke to his right
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Yep. I wish Watson would stop trying to be Superman all the time and stayed in his lane within this offensive system, simply to expose O'Brien's lack of creativity, lack of exceptional talent around Watson, and lack of overall dynamics in the scheme.

When Watson goes off script, it allows the debate to shift focus to his failures instead of allowing serious analysis of the misfit scheme itself.

There is no DC in the league worried about O'Brien's offensive system. What they worry about is the only playmaker on offense going off-script, and defenses try to force him to do it and he tends to go for the bait.
Absolutely. Don’t remember where I heard it, or maybe read it, that the Steelers knew what the Texans were going to do.

I’d like Watson to stop trying to be Superman too, but most of the time he’s forced to because this scheme ain’t fooling anyone.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
But you just said:



He had plenty of time to throw it after he stepped up and before he broke to his right
No he did not have time to throw the ball to the second read.

He set up, wanting to go to the first read, saw the RDT, and pulled the ball back.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Russell Wilson
Seahawks Falcons
1 5:04
3 23 SEA 49 Russell Wilson pass incomplete deep left intended for Tyler Lockett. Penalty on Ricardo Allen: Defensive Pass Interference, 41 yards (no play)

Wilson had plenty of time and no pressure. (Over 4 seconds)
He did not take the check down, but threw the ball way way downfield into double coverage and got the PI call.
..............................................


4 12:06
3 19 ATL 40 Russell Wilson pass complete short left to Freddie Swain for 17 yards (tackle by Isaiah Oliver and Keanu Neal)
One block , 4 short routes .

This play was designed specifically to get into FG range since they're already at the opponent's 40.
Quick throw for 5 yard in the left flat. The runner did the rest.
.............................................

.......................................
Seahawks - Patriots
2 1:43
3 19 SEA 45 Russell Wilson pass incomplete deep middle intended for Tyler Lockett. Penalty on Jonathan Jones: Defensive Holding, 5 yards (no play)

Nope.
Wilson did not take the check down here either.
He went deep after the 3-second mark and get a Defensive Holding Call.
......................................................

2 0:33 3 16 SEA 44 Russell Wilson pass incomplete deep left intended for D.K. Metcalf

Nope.
No check down here either; he went for a 15yd route down the left sideline at around the 3-sec mark that went incomplete.

................................
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
No he did not have time to throw the ball to the second read.

He set up, wanting to go to the first read, saw the RDT, and pulled the ball back.
The RDT was still behind Scharping and clear and easy throw to the TE

1601497493648.png
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Man I have never seen these same people going off on Fitzpatrick, Hoyer, or any other quarterback that’s played in this broke back mountain of a system. The argument then was mainly on Rick Smith.
Every QB the Texans have had, regardless of system, has been heavily criticized. The difference is that Watson is making $160M and some posters think he's JIC
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Man I have never seen these same people going off on Fitzpatrick, Hoyer, or any other quarterback that’s played in this broke back mountain of a system. The argument then was mainly on Rick Smith.
Honestly, low expectations vs. high expectations.

Fitz and Hoyer had clear ceilings, which is why they have played on multiple teams without ever being considered franchise QBs.

Watson is clearly more talented and has more potential, and that brings with it high expectations (especially in a city starved for QB talent ever since Warren Moon).

The inherent problem is a bad fit in H-town. It's like putting 4x4 tires on a Lamborghini.

Folks are entitled to their opinions, but it is curious (to me) that I have yet to see even one professional football analyst claim that Watson is overrated and mediocre. Not.Even.One.

So take all analyis - critical and/or agenda-driven - with a grain of salt. It's just an opinion and nothing more.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Another difference is that Brady and Rogers are three times the quarterback that Watson is now or is ever capable of being.

It's kind of like justifying that David Johnson missing holes over and over by saying that Barry Sanders used to miss holes too.
Sorry, but you missed the mark widely.
Please reread my OP carefully and then read all the similar situations I haf posted regarding those great QBs.

They did EXACTLY like what Watson did, and that is to look for the first read before going back to the underneath route(s).
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Maybe we'll get to watch that play together one of these days.
......

Why do you think he pulled the ball back?
Because he decided he wanted to wait for the deep shot to come open
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Every QB the Texans have had, regardless of system, has been heavily criticized. The difference is that Watson is making $160M and some posters think he's JIC
OB had everyone of those QB's during his tenure and hasn't done jackshite with any of them. It doesn't matter who got paid what, when the common denominator just got a promotion to wear the GM hat as well and still maintains a staff that has no ability to coach up the players......GM/HC/OC as well.

OB should go far sooner than Watson b/c he's had 7 years and essentially 3 drafts to get this team straightened out and into his desired image. Watson has had a shortened rookie season (NFL Records) then 2+ seasons with OB....only OB....and OB's horrific offensive scheme. No one has gotten his offense except DC's. Watson deserves a new HC and a better staff that makes the team better. Bottom line, Watson's upside is far-far greater than OB's.
 
Last edited:

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
OB had everyone of those QB's during his tenure and hasn't done jackshite with any of them. It doesn't matter who got paid what, when the common denominator just got a promotion to wear the GM hat as well and still maintains a staff that has no ability to coach up the players......GM/HC/OC as well.
He didn't have Carr or Banks or Schaub or Leinart or ...

OB should go far sooner than Watson b/c he's had 7 years and essentially 3 drafts to get this team straightened out and in the image he's desired. Watson has had a shortened rookie season (NFL Records) then 2+ seasons with OB....only OB....and OB's horrific offensive scheme. No one has gotten his offense except DC's. Watson deserves a new HC and a better staff that makes the team better. Bottom line, Watson's upside is far-far greater than OB's.
That wasn't the discussion nor am I trying to absolve OB of anything
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Because he decided he wanted to wait for the deep shot to come open
He wanted to go deep, but pull the ball back for maybe two reasons:
- The double team downfield (even though it's not apparent unless you really look for it)
- The RDT threatening to bat the ball down.

I assume that he looked deep first just like all those great QBs that I had mentioned in the plays in the above posts; it certainly looks that way. When it wasn't there, he did not have time to go the second read (the TE) so he scrambled out of the pocket.
(Don't forget the threat of the RDE from behind besides the threat of the RDT outside the LG.)

Since he had to pull the ball back, it took away any possible time to make another attempt.
 

KarlK

Waterboy
Sorry, but you missed the mark widely.
Please reread my OP carefully and then read all the similar situations I haf posted regarding those great QBs.

They did EXACTLY like what Watson did, and that is to look for the first read before going back to the underneath route(s).
Unless anything you’ve said prior demonstrates Watson should so much as even be mentioned in the same breath as Brady or Rodgers, which you haven’t because he can’t hold either of their jocks, there’s no reason to go back and reread any meager point you’ve attemped to make.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Honestly, low expectations vs. high expectations.

Fitz and Hoyer had clear ceilings, which is why they have played on multiple teams without ever being considered franchise QBs.

Watson is clearly more talented and has more potential, and that brings with it high expectations (especially in a city starved for QB talent ever since Warren Moon).

The inherent problem is a bad fit in H-town. It's like putting 4x4 tires on a Lamborghini.

Folks are entitled to their opinions, but it is curious (to me) that I have yet to see even one professional football analyst claim that Watson is overrated and mediocre. Not.Even.One.

So take all analyis - critical and/or agenda-driven - with a grain of salt. It's just an opinion and nothing more.
I respect everyone’s opinions but my thing is why aren’t those few selective members dissecting Watson’s good plays. Those same members did this same exact thing with Rick Smith. They only highlighted his down fall and never talked about what he did good for this organization. Why aren’t these same people dissecting everything every other player mistakes?
 


Top