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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

I have been a Texans fan since 2002, but only on this forum for several weeks. You can not expect me to know everything that has been said on this forum in its entirety. I go based on the interactions I have with people and the threads that I have read so far, and most the fans in real life that I have known since 2002. If you think my posts are somewhat ignorant, oh well. Not much I can do. You can not expect me to read the history of this entire forum. I base my opinions based on who I talk to and what I read, and the people I have talked to in real life for the past 18 years. If you aren't happy with that, not much I can do.

You see I'm trying to be nice and you are making this personal. Frankly I don't care how long you have been a Texans fan or on these forums but understand that there is a lot of history and a lot of these people have been on these forums for literal decades. No one said you had to "read the history" but maybe stop and look to see what all is going on before you jump in both feet and assume you know what everyone's stance is and what everyone thinks just based off less than a month of posts.

What I think is ignorant is you coming in here and calling people a "Watson hater" or telling us how we aren't realistic when someone says something you don't like. Argue your points, put someone on ignore if you just can't stand them but don't act like you know everything about every ones based on less than a month of posts.
 
I've brought up all types of scenarios for this team or that team to trade for the Burrows pick. I just don't want to see the kid end up on the Bengals.

He's going to though unless he refuses to sign which he almost can't do that because he is an Ohio boy. Think about it, home grown football hero for a state and city that has been one step above the Browns for over a decade and that states team has the number 1 pick. Its almost like a Hallmark movie. Plus it fits in great with the Bengal ownership because they well sell tickets and jerseys like crazy before even the first game AND they get him on a rookie contract for cheap for at least 4-5 years. Yeah Bengals aren't giving that up anytime soon cheap bastards.
 
You see I'm trying to be nice and you are making this personal. Frankly I don't care how long you have been a Texans fan or on these forums but understand that there is a lot of history and a lot of these people have been on these forums for literal decades. No one said you had to "read the history" but maybe stop and look to see what all is going on before you jump in both feet and assume you know what everyone's stance is and what everyone thinks just based off less than a month of posts.

What I think is ignorant is you coming in here and calling people a "Watson hater" or telling us how we aren't realistic when someone says something you don't like. Argue your points, put someone on ignore if you just can't stand them but don't act like you know everything about every ones based on less than a month of posts.
I have never said that someone is not "realistic" because they said something "I didn't like". My opinion was that it wasn't realistic, so I gave my opinion. It's not about liking something or not, it's simply giving my opinion. I am going to continue to speak how I speak, and enjoy this forum for what it is. I give opinions and discuss issues based on WHAT I READ. You seem to have a beef with me because I don't have decades of history on this forum, so my advice to you would be to just ignore me. A lot easier, because your continued backlash will be ignored. I am as respectful as I can be to everyone and discuss in an appropriate manner, and if you are going to continue to judge me based on one post where I said "Watson hater" in a sarcastic joking manner, then that is your problem.
 
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You're right, the QB of my choice in that draft was Mahomes and I wouldn't be as critical of him because he has progressed into a true superstar. Unlike what DW4 has done despite what many here think. The Texans have a slightly above avg young QB that seems to have topped out.


U was critical of the Howard pick and my thoughts on him changed as he improved once he moved to RT. I've often said the IL isn't as good as it's talent level says it should be and Devlin should be fired. So you're FOS on this point.

BTW, I called for BOB to be fired after 51-7 so I'm beginning to think you have DW4DS disease.


He has progressed because he has a great teacher who tailored his offense to fit the talent. Reid is proven and Obrien is not. Mahomes would not be lightening it up under Bill Obrien. He would perform just like Watson. Why because O'Brien's flawed offense is too inconsistent.


BTW I'm not blind like you and I don't hold grudges on any of these people. If it's a player or coach I don't like, I would still give them a chance to prove themselves.
 
He has progressed because he has a great teacher who tailored his offense to fit the talent. Reid is proven and Obrien is not. Mahomes would not be lightening it up under Bill Obrien. He would perform just like Watson. Why because O'Brien's flawed offense is too inconsistent.


BTW I'm not blind like you and I don't hold grudges on any of these people. If it's a player or coach I don't like, I would still give them a chance to prove themselves.

I dont have grudges against anybody, I can just evaluate who's the better QB in both body and mind. The fact that I called for the Texans to draft BOTH of the QB's in the SB should make you take notice, but it wont.
 
There is an entire thread about this so maybe go check it out, there are some really well crafted and thought out strategies in there. Yes you can make the case of "We don't know if X would agree to that" no we sure don't but the same can be applied to the "2020 HC candidates" and the "2020 Free Agents" threads so that's a weak argument. Also the only person you might could say has "given up" on Watson is Steel and to be fair he wasn't very high on him to begin with.

Some of you seem to have trouble with the "what if" way of thinking or at least a "what if" that you don't agree with or like. That's fine but just realize that not every conversation is centered around "we should do this and do this right now" like the fire OB conversations tend to become. No Watson isn't going anywhere, everyone knows that and most everyone agrees with that but news flash OB isn't going any where either and if you think its a sure thing that OB will go before Watson does you haven't been paying attention the last 6 years.
Hold your horses geez.. I didn’t want to be specific but thats who I was talking about. And it seems like some more are being serious No big deal playing fantasy trade on here as most do, I know its a long offseason. Im talking about when people are being dead serious.
 
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I dont have grudges against anybody, I can just evaluate who's the better QB in both body and mind. The fact that I called for the Texans to draft BOTH of the QB's in the SB should make you take notice, but it wont.
I wanted Jimmy or Teddy B as our draft pick in the second round in 2014 and I wanted Mahomes slightly over Watson in 2017... As many did, that doesn’t make me a draft expert, lol..
 
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I wanted Jimmy or Teddy B as our draft pick in the second round in 2014 and I wanted Mahomes slightly over Watson in 2017... As many did, that doesn’t make me a draft expert, lol..

It makes you have a better eye for QBs than RS had.
 
He has progressed because he has a great teacher who tailored his offense to fit the talent. Reid is proven and Obrien is not. Mahomes would not be lightening it up under Bill Obrien. He would perform just like Watson. Why because O'Brien's flawed offense is too inconsistent.


BTW I'm not blind like you and I don't hold grudges on any of these people. If it's a player or coach I don't like, I would still give them a chance to prove themselves.

Reid didn’t tailor his offense to fit his QB he found a QB that’s fits his offense. This is basically the same offense he has run since McNabb and it’s designed for a duel threat QB. It’s why he could never make it work with Smith who was an above average QB. Not elite but certainly no scrub.

The complaints people have about Reids scheme, no running game and a completely ignored defense, are the same complaints they have had about him for decades. Again he just got the kind of QB his scheme is designed for so it makes it look better than it has in the past.
 
I'm on record as wanting both Jimmy G and Mahomes when they were potentially available to us..

I also like, and believe we can win with, Watson..

Suppose I should sorta take notice..

I believe despite all the back and forth - This is the consensus.

Most like Watson (just not as much as Mahomes) and most think you can win with him - with the right pieces around him - that includes coaches , players , scheme , playcalling and decision making / clock management.


A LOT has to go right to get to the big dance and a great QB doesn't guarantee a spot.


Problem for us , and Watson is he doesn't have many of those "pieces" around him.
 
I believe despite all the back and forth - This is the consensus.

Most like Watson (just not as much as Mahomes) and most think you can win with him - with the right pieces around him - that includes coaches , players , scheme , playcalling and decision making / clock management.


A LOT has to go right to get to the big dance and a great QB doesn't guarantee a spot.


Problem for us , and Watson is he doesn't have many of those "pieces" around him.
Agreed. I have thought this for a while. Unfortunately, by the time we have all of the right coaching staff, defense fixed, etc., Watson will be gone. I think this year was our year to win it, and we will probably take a step back next year. Rookie QBs thrive when they are thrown to the wolves in their first year when they have a solid coaching staff, steady offensive weapons, etc. Watson was thrown to the wolves with none of this and is just in the wrong place at the wrong time. No time to sit back and learn, no strong support.
 
I believe despite all the back and forth - This is the consensus.

Most like Watson (just not as much as Mahomes) and most think you can win with him - with the right pieces around him - that includes coaches , players , scheme , playcalling and decision making / clock management.


A LOT has to go right to get to the big dance and a great QB doesn't guarantee a spot.


Problem for us , and Watson is he doesn't have many of those "pieces" around him.

Well they did invest in the OL and it still didn't help all that much.
 
Well they did invest in the OL and it still didn't help all that much.

Yes, they did invest in the OL. (finally) They got Tunsil late, and they drafted Scharping, who as rookie, made some rookie mistakes, but looks very good, and then Howard went down with the injury, but when he comes back next year, he has the marks of a stud RT. So, to keep it in perspective, I’d say the ‘investment’ will pay off more and more each year from now on, don’t you think?

You’ll have a young, but talented offensive line that will benefit Watson tremendously. So, I don’t get how you can state that Watson has peaked.

And to keep it in perspective a little bit, when Reid drafted Mahomes, he had already built one of the league’s best offensive lines to start with.

And please stop tooting your horn about the Super Bowl QBs. I don’t think you‘ll find anyone here that DID NOT want to take Jimmy G in the 2nd round that year. I’m stilled pissed that they didn’t, but that doesn’t make me smarter than anyone else.
 
And please stop tooting your horn about the Super Bowl QBs. I don’t think you‘ll find anyone here that DID NOT want to take Jimmy G in the 2nd round that year. I’m stilled pissed that they didn’t, but that doesn’t make me smarter than anyone else.

It will get tooted, and I'll be bumping that thread soon actually because there were a ton of idiots in here that were constantly saying "We don't need or want any other QB"s out of NE" over and over. Guys were blackballing NE QB's practically all because of Mallet and Hoyer as if their skill set and history had anything to do with his. I explained the differences, and told people to watch him, and there were plenty that pushed this narrative that he was just some product of Belicheck not even knowing that Belicheck never ran the offense at all or that none of the other QB"s had ever performed well like that in NE before other than Cassel. I started an entire thread on why we needed to go out and get Jimmy G when he was still in NE. He was the perfect guy at the time.
 
Agreed. I have thought this for a while. Unfortunately, by the time we have all of the right coaching staff, defense fixed, etc., Watson will be gone. I think this year was our year to win it, and we will probably take a step back next year.

Based on what? Why were the Texans the top contender entering the season to you? I don't remember anyone feeling that way anywhere else. Explain that please.
 
Based on what? Why were the Texans the top contender entering the season to you? I don't remember anyone feeling that way anywhere else. Explain that please.
No one said they were the top contender entering the season. Who said that? Why put words in my mouth? My point was as the season progressed and we made the playoffs, it was our last hope to win it before we take a plunge next year. You easily misinterpreted what I was saying.
 
It will get tooted, and I'll be bumping that thread soon actually because there were a ton of idiots in here that were constantly saying "We don't need or want any other QB"s out of NE" over and over. Guys were blackballing NE QB's practically all because of Mallet and Hoyer as if their skill set and history had anything to do with his. I explained the differences, and told people to watch him, and there were plenty that pushed this narrative that he was just some product of Belicheck not even knowing that Belicheck never ran the offense at all or that none of the other QB"s had ever performed well like that in NE before other than Cassel. I started an entire thread on why we needed to go out and get Jimmy G when he was still in NE. He was the perfect guy at the time.

I was talking about before New England drafted him. We had the pick before New England’s pick. I kept saying, “take Garrapolo, take Garrapolo”, but they didn’t, and then the Patriots grabbed him with the next pick.

We wouldnt have needed to trade with New England if we would have drafted him to begin with 4 years earlier.
 
No one said they were the top contender entering the season. Who said that? Why put words in my mouth? My point was as the season progressed and we made the playoffs, it was our last hope to win it before we take a plunge next year. You easily misinterpreted what I was saying.

So, what makes you think we‘re “taking a plunge” next year?
 
I was talking about before New England drafted him. We had the pick before New England’s pick. I kept saying, “take Garrapolo, take Garrapolo”, but they didn’t, and then the Patriots grabbed him with the next pick.

We wouldnt have needed to trade with New England if we would have drafted him to begin with 4 years earlier.


Actually, we should have taken him at pick 33... we took XSF instead and then NE took him at 62, while RS thought he would make it to 65
 
I was talking about before New England drafted him. We had the pick before New England’s pick. I kept saying, “take Garrapolo, take Garrapolo”, but they didn’t, and then the Patriots grabbed him with the next pick.

We wouldnt have needed to trade with New England if we would have drafted him to begin with 4 years earlier.

Yeah, I didn't know a lot about him before the draft since he played at a smaller school I think. I do remember certain people having some admiration about him. I just knew what I watched the minute he got to NE in pre season games and in time when Brady sat down, and he always looked great every time. He just had the look and the feel of a guy that was a good franchise QB while watching him where you knew he likely had a very high ceiling one day potentially.
 
Actually, we should have taken him at pick 33... we took XSF instead and then NE took him at 62, while RS thought he would make it to 65
I stand corrected. I wanted him taken at 33. It was the first pick of the 2nd round, and I knew he would be gone by the time we picked next. Like I said, it still infuriates me.
 
Yeah, I didn't know a lot about him before the draft since he played at a smaller school I think. I do remember certain people having some admiration about him. I just knew what I watched the minute he got to NE in pre season games and in time when Brady sat down, and he always looked great every time. He just had the look and the feel of a guy that was a good franchise QB while watching him where you knew he likely had a very high ceiling one day potentially.

I had the very same impression. That’s what made me so mad. We had a chance to take him. But then he just languished behind Brady, because we all know Brady won‘t hang it up until he’s 65. I actually was surprised that Belichick let him go, but Brady didn’t really give him a choice.

But we would have probably ruined him like we ruin everybody else around here.
 
I had the very same impression. That’s what made me so mad. We had a chance to take king him. But then he just languished behind Brady, because we all know Brady won‘t hang it up until he’s 65. I actually was surprised that Belichick let him go, but Brady didn’t really give him a choice.

But we would have probably ruined him like we ruin everybody else around here.

Belicheck didn't. He screwed up that entire situation by not being upfront with Brady and Kraft about the fact that he planned on keeping Jimmy regardless of anything. Brady started off that season on fire, and was the MVP favorite and once the trade deadline was approaching and Jimmy wasn't traded before the season it became apparent that Bill was going to try and keep him and trade Brady in the off season. Brady went to Kraft and Kraft forced it and rightfully so. Brady went on to win the MVP that year and threw for 500 yards in the SB breaking records. Belicheck then just trades Jimmy Garropolo away FOR NOTHING (2nd rounder) as a **** you it seemed like to Kraft. Belicheck sulked the rest of that season being extremely grumpy and his relationship with Brady and his trainer strained some. That whole situation in the SB where it looked like Belicheck either threw the game away or had the worst coaching performance ever in the SB is still mind boggling from it all and a big bizarre mystery. Brady goes on to win another SB last season with Belicheck despite all of that, so it was the right thing to do to keep Brady. Belicheck tried to move on though. It wasn't the worst way of thinking, but he miscalculated how much time Brady really had left at a high level.
 
I think Jimmy G is a nice QB, but TBH, nothing spectacular to me. I think he has an excellent shot at winning the Super Bowl this season, but I wouldn't consider him a top-tier guy. I would put him at the same level as Matt Ryan.

In other words, if we drafted Jimmy G, I highly doubt we're any better than what we are today. Good enough to get into playoffs, not good enough to advance.
 
Mainly:
1 - Our schedule.
2 - Our division will be a lot tougher and improved next year.
3 - I don’t trust we’ll make significant changes in the off-season.

But a good offensive line makes up for a lot negatives. Say what you want about O’Brien, but his moves, as controverial as they are, seems like he feels that way also. In that regard, I have no issue.
 
I think Jimmy G is a nice QB, but TBH, nothing spectacular to me. I think he has an excellent shot at winning the Super Bowl this season, but I wouldn't consider him a top-tier guy. I would put him at the same level as Matt Ryan.

In other words, if we drafted Jimmy G, I highly doubt we're any better than what we are today. Good enough to get into playoffs, not good enough to advance.

Are you asking him that‘s his opinion, or is it also your opinion?
 
I'm on record as wanting both Jimmy G and Mahomes when they were potentially available to us..

I also like, and believe we can win with, Watson..

Suppose I should sorta take notice..

Most of us wanted those two. I’m on record saying that as well. But i was extremely happy drafting Watson.

Now if we did draft Jimmy or Patrick, we would still be in the predicament that we’re in.

I guess we all are draft experts. Lol
 
Most of us wanted those two. I’m on record saying that as well. But i was extremely happy drafting Watson.

Now if we did draft Jimmy or Patrick, we would still be in the predicament that we’re in.

I guess we all are draft experts. Lol

The difference between Mahomes and Watson and Jimmy G is this...

...in order to get Mahomes we would have had to move up in the 1st, and we had to do just that with Watson. There was no need to move up to get Jimmy G. He was there for the picking. :gun:
 
You‘ll have to pardon my confusion. He was good enough to advance to the SB with the Niners, but not good to advance with the Texans? That’s a pretty damning statement that’s got nothing to do with Jimmy.

Not what I'm saying at all. I believe the 9ers are a better team than the Texans, that's why they're going to the SB and the Texans aren't. I DON'T think 9ers are going to the SB just because they have Jimmy G and we have Watson.

Call me old school, but I'm still a believer in the better team wins games, not the better QB.
 
Honestly you don't know if a new regime is going to do any better but …. 6 years in , its pretty darn obvious that this one isn't capable of anything more than mediocrity.
Same mistakes year after year …. with a few new ones thrown in for good measure.

We've been shown for 6 years what this guy is capable of and it tops out at getting trounced in the divisional round. If you are content with the status quo , maybe a wildcard win and then getting sent home …. I can understand your disagreement.

To me , this team has a lot more potential than that and OB isn't getting it out of them.

I read that in a 100 years of NFL history, no HC with 6 or more years at a team that has not led it to a conference championship game, has ever accomplished anything significant.

The Texans (and O'Brien) are not that special to break a 100 year historical trend.

We've seen O'Brien's peak with the Texans. It will not get better under his leadership. This is as good as it gets with O'Brien.

How many seasons are you going to give him before you realize whats wrong with DW4 can't be fixed.

4-5, maybe 10?

Most of what you perceive as needing to be fixed could be solved with a better scheme for his talents. It really is that simple.

You don't ask Tom Brady to run an RPO. It is not a scheme that caters to his talents.

By the same token, you don't use a scheme not fitted for Watson and expect Tom Brady.

Andy Reid would have Watson kicking even more ass right now, possibly in the SB. Coaching and schemes make a helluva' difference when it is matched with the the right talent.

This is basic Football 101 stuff.
 
Still no #1, b/c he already lost to Brees..not his fault, but still. #2, b/c all those guys have led teams to championships. Foles shouldn't even be in any convo for a top 5 anything..

Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Mahomes
Wilson / Rivers / Rothlisberger

The absolute only argument that can be made to insert DW4 ahead any of the 3 i listed in the 5th spot is for him to either lead us to a SB, or for him to have an MVP year like Mahomes did last year accompanied by a deep playoff run. Beyond that he's not top 5.
Had Foles remained in Philly he would for sure ascend to a top 5 Qb. If he ever gets with another team that utilizes him correctly he has the talent to be among the best Qb's of today.
 
I read that in a 100 years of NFL history, no HC with 6 or more years at a team that has not led it to a conference championship game, has ever accomplished anything significant.

The Texans (and O'Brien) are not that special to break a 100 year historical trend.

We've seen O'Brien's peak with the Texans. It will not get better under his leadership. This is as good as it gets with O'Brien.



Most of what you perceive as needing to be fixed could be solved with a better scheme for his talents. It really is that simple.

You don't ask Tom Brady to run an RPO. It is not a scheme that caters to his talents.

By the same token, you don't use a scheme not fitted for Watson and expect Tom Brady.

Andy Reid would have Watson kicking even more ass right now, possibly in the SB. Coaching and schemes make a helluva' difference when it is matched with the the right talent.

This is basic Football 101 stuff.

Grossly hyperbolic statement DB...How DW4 is used within BoB's scheme is not at all on the same order as TB12 being asked to run RPO.



It's not a matter of BoB's scheme not fitting him...Its a matter of what you guys think DW4 could be doing in another scheme....when dude has averaged around 4000 yds and 30+ TD's every season he's started 16 under BoB..........And contrary to what you guys think, that's not all the brilliance of DW4. They added RPO....They've added more play action. They've added more talent on the o-line and around him. That extra little bit that ya'll think he could be doing in another scheme...that falls on DW4 improving his game, not the scheme changing more to fit him.

You guys also talk about DW4 like he's some guy with significant flaws. The best thing about him is that he fits any scheme. He can sit back and pick you apart as a passer or he can pace you with his ability to run.

People here said "well, what was he supposed to say?", when DW4 got questioned after the Chiefs game about how he felt about BoB. Well for starters, he didn't have to say anything. he could've just ignored the question or gave some canned, generic answer. But i think it speaks volumes about how DW4 responded. Not only did he endorse BoB, he went over and beyond what he had to say in doing so. IOW's that dude knows. Scheme is only as good as the players in it & how well they execute it.
 
I read that in a 100 years of NFL history, no HC with 6 or more years at a team that has not led it to a conference championship game, has ever accomplished anything significant.

The Texans (and O'Brien) are not that special to break a 100 year historical trend.

We've seen O'Brien's peak with the Texans. It will not get better under his leadership. This is as good as it gets with O'Brien.



Most of what you perceive as needing to be fixed could be solved with a better scheme for his talents. It really is that simple.

You don't ask Tom Brady to run an RPO. It is not a scheme that caters to his talents.

By the same token, you don't use a scheme not fitted for Watson and expect Tom Brady.

Andy Reid would have Watson kicking even more ass right now, possibly in the SB. Coaching and schemes make a helluva' difference when it is matched with the the right talent.

This is basic Football 101 stuff.

Well, DW4 had a 24-0 lead and BOB blew it.

DW4 wasn't complicit at all. Tell me what you think about the last 6 weeks of his play this season.
 
It's not a matter of BoB's scheme not fitting him...Its a matter of what you guys think DW4 could be doing in another scheme....when dude has averaged around 4000 yds and 30+ TD's every season he's started 16 under BoB..........And contrary to what you guys think, that's not all the brilliance of DW4. They added RPO....They've added more play action. They've added more talent on the o-line and around him. That extra little bit that ya'll think he could be doing in another scheme...that falls on DW4 improving his game, not the scheme changing more to fit him.
Where to begin. *Sigh*
Let's start with we had a better line before DW4 got here and did what with it exactly?

Where are those other 4000 Yd passers?

2014 - Fitzmagic - 2483, 17 Passing TDs (with Foster running and AJ/Hopkins)
2015 - Hoyer - 2606, 19 Passing TDs
2016 - Assweiler - 2957, 15 Passing TDs (actual TE stats)
2017 - Watson - 1699, 19 Passing TDs in 6 starts
2018 - Watson - 4165, 26 Passing TDs in his first full season
2019 - Watson - 3852 , 26 Passing TDs

Yeah, Watson didn't make any difference at all, even with a turnstile at LT.

So, unless you're trying to sell us that O'Brien becoming a better play-caller miraculously coincided with the arrival of DW4...
 
Grossly hyperbolic statement DB...How DW4 is used within BoB's scheme is not at all on the same order as TB12 being asked to run RPO.

It's not a matter of BoB's scheme not fitting him...Its a matter of what you guys think DW4 could be doing in another scheme....when dude has averaged around 4000 yds and 30+ TD's every season he's started 16 under BoB..........And contrary to what you guys think, that's not all the brilliance of DW4. They added RPO....They've added more play action. They've added more talent on the o-line and around him. That extra little bit that ya'll think he could be doing in another scheme...that falls on DW4 improving his game, not the scheme changing more to fit him.

You guys also talk about DW4 like he's some guy with significant flaws. The best thing about him is that he fits any scheme. He can sit back and pick you apart as a passer or he can pace you with his ability to run.

People here said "well, what was he supposed to say?", when DW4 got questioned after the Chiefs game about how he felt about BoB. Well for starters, he didn't have to say anything. he could've just ignored the question or gave some canned, generic answer. But i think it speaks volumes about how DW4 responded. Not only did he endorse BoB, he went over and beyond what he had to say in doing so. IOW's that dude knows. Scheme is only as good as the players in it & how well they execute it.

You perceive hyperbole, but many of us perceive truth.

For instance, it is well documented (by the media pros, not just fans) that O'Brien's schemes are not utilizing some basic concepts to negate the pass rush. As many have studied and posted in the forum, TV, and radio, there is often nobody open when Watson hits his third step in the drop back.

That's not the QB, that's the scheme.

Many of Watson's plays are fantastic (and even sometimes a car wreck) AFTER that point because he refuses to throw the ball away or take a sack. He starts playing sandlot football because he's athletic and extremely competitive. That mobility also happens to be one of his primary strengths, NOT sitting in a pocket.

That's not the coach, that's the QB.

I never said Watson has "significant flaws". <----now THAT is a grossly hyperbolic statement that I never said.

But, ALL QBs have flaws. Nobody is perfect.

A good coach takes the talent he's got and customizes a scheme to compliment the strengths of the talent.

Why can't O'Brien's offense be consisistent with out ONE injury-prone QB? That's scheme, not QB.

O'Brien is a coach with a scheme that he makes every QB learn. This is simple fact. Study the history of O'Brien. He's done it with every QB that has been in Htown. It's that "game plan offense" that he learned in NE, but what he appears to miss is that NE would still customize their scheme according to the talent on their roster. That's why they could go from a deep threat with Moss to a two TE set to a scheme that utilizes the short passing game. Plus, he had a GOAT QB that was already HoF when O'Brien got there.

As far as Watson being a company man, he's a professional. He's not going to rock the boat, especially when contract time is around the corner. And he knows that he's a team leader and has to tow the line. He does not have the egotistical personality to bring that negative attention to his head coach.

And maybe he's just drinking the koolaide. More power to him. It's his career that's going to be wasted with O'Brien.

Well, DW4 had a 24-0 lead and BOB blew it.

DW4 wasn't complicit at all. Tell me what you think about the last 6 weeks of his play this season.

The last time I checked the roster, Watson doesn't play defense.

Watson became the first QB in NFL history to lose a playoff game with 300-plus pass yards, 3-plus total TDs (two passing, one rushing) and 0 giveaways. You can't pin the loss on the quarterback.

The defense had no answers for Mahomes and Andy Reid's playcalling. The Chiefs are just a better team, coached by a better head coach and offensive coordinator.
 
You perceive hyperbole, but many of us perceive truth.

For instance, it is well documented (by the media pros, not just fans) that O'Brien's schemes are not utilizing some basic concepts to negate the pass rush. As many have studied and posted in the forum, TV, and radio, there is often nobody open when Watson hits his third step in the drop back.

That's not the QB, that's the scheme.

Many of Watson's plays are fantastic (and even sometimes a car wreck) AFTER that point because he refuses to throw the ball away or take a sack. He starts playing sandlot football because he's athletic and extremely competitive. That mobility also happens to be one of his primary strengths, NOT sitting in a pocket.

That's not the coach, that's the QB.

I never said Watson has "significant flaws". <----now THAT is a grossly hyperbolic statement that I never said.

But, ALL QBs have flaws. Nobody is perfect.

A good coach takes the talent he's got and customizes a scheme to compliment the strengths of the talent.

Why can't O'Brien's offense be consisistent with out ONE injury-prone QB? That's scheme, not QB.

O'Brien is a coach with a scheme that he makes every QB learn. This is simple fact. Study the history of O'Brien. He's done it with every QB that has been in Htown. It's that "game plan offense" that he learned in NE, but what he appears to miss is that NE would still customize their scheme according to the talent on their roster. That's why they could go from a deep threat with Moss to a two TE set to a scheme that utilizes the short passing game. Plus, he had a GOAT QB that was already HoF when O'Brien got there.

As far as Watson being a company man, he's a professional. He's not going to rock the boat, especially when contract time is around the corner. And he knows that he's a team leader and has to tow the line. He does not have the egotistical personality to bring that negative attention to his head coach.

And maybe he's just drinking the koolaide. More power to him. It's his career that's going to be wasted with O'Brien.



The last time I checked the roster, Watson doesn't play defense.

Watson became the first QB in NFL history to lose a playoff game with 300-plus pass yards, 3-plus total TDs (two passing, one rushing) and 0 giveaways. You can't pin the loss on the quarterback.

The defense had no answers for Mahomes and Andy Reid's playcalling. The Chiefs are just a better team, coached by a better head coach and offensive coordinator.

Good stuff as usual DB unfortunately these jokers will still find away to refute everything you just said. Man I can’t believe people are trying to put that meltdown on Watson.

1. The failed fake punt on the wrong side of 50.
2. Carter’s horrendous fumble on that kickoff return.
3. RAC defense going into the wrong side of the history book.

Yeah that’s on Watson.
 
Where to begin. *Sigh*
Let's start with we had a better line before DW4 got here and did what with it exactly?

Where are those other 4000 Yd passers?

2014 - Fitzmagic - 2483, 17 Passing TDs (with Foster running and AJ/Hopkins)
2015 - Hoyer - 2606, 19 Passing TDs
2016 - Assweiler - 2957, 15 Passing TDs (actual TE stats)
2017 - Watson - 1699, 19 Passing TDs in 6 starts
2018 - Watson - 4165, 26 Passing TDs in his first full season
2019 - Watson - 3852 , 26 Passing TDs

Yeah, Watson didn't make any difference at all, even with a turnstile at LT.

So, unless you're trying to sell us that O'Brien becoming a better play-caller miraculously coincided with the arrival of DW4...

Reading is fundamental. Never said DW4 didn’t make a difference...what I said was not all those numbers he put up is all him and his brilliance...2nd, none of those guys was able to start 16 games in any 1 season they were here. In fact only 2 came close...but I think most HC would find it difficult to tailor their schemes around guys who literally nothing well. We’ve seen that over the years with many a HC who you guys regard as good ones.

Bottom line is again DW4 spoke to how he feels about BoB as his HC...the media took the opportunity to try to get DW4 to endorse their trash narrative and thought he was gonna throw him under the bus and he did the complete opposite.

Reminds me of the press conference earlier in the year where some media guy thought he knew what was going on with the play calling and offense and DW4 had to school his ass and basically just told him it was his play and execution not the play...not the scheme.

Like I said, DW4 is telling ya’ll what’s up, ya’ll just don’t want to hear it.
 
Reading is fundamental. Never said DW4 didn’t make a difference...what I said was not all those numbers he put up is all him and his brilliance...2nd, none of those guys was able to start 16 games in any 1 season they were here. In fact only 2 came close...but I think most HC would find it difficult to tailor their schemes around guys who literally nothing well. We’ve seen that over the years with many a HC who you guys regard as good ones.

Bottom line is again DW4 spoke to how he feels about BoB as his HC...the media took the opportunity to try to get DW4 to endorse their trash narrative and thought he was gonna throw him under the bus and he did the complete opposite.

Reminds me of the press conference earlier in the year where some media guy thought he knew what was going on with the play calling and offense and DW4 had to school his ass and basically just told him it was his play and execution not the play...not the scheme.

Like I said, DW4 is telling ya’ll what’s up, ya’ll just don’t want to hear it.


You're evidence that OB is a good coach after all is the fact that Watson won't go on television and trash him as a HC?

As if Watson has the type of history where he would try to humiliate someone like that.

Very few players act like Richard Sherman or Baker Mayfield. To act like Watson would even do that in the first place is disengenious.
 
You perceive hyperbole, but many of us perceive truth.

For instance, it is well documented (by the media pros, not just fans) that O'Brien's schemes are not utilizing some basic concepts to negate the pass rush. As many have studied and posted in the forum, TV, and radio, there is often nobody open when Watson hits his third step in the drop back.

That's not the QB, that's the scheme.

Just as well there are many in the media...pros that point out basic things that DW4 doesn't do in situations that he should do...that make things harder on himself....that he needs to improve upon to take that next leap...for us to take that next leap. Furthermore, Every HC in the league has holes in their schemes that they at times fail to utilize fairly consistently & it costs them. For all the love Andy Reid gets around here & the league, it is well documented that he tends to get too pass happy........
..& it costs him....See 2013 AFC wildcard game against the colts where he blew a 30 pt lead in the 3rd....See his massive failures in Philly....


A good coach takes the talent he's got and customizes a scheme to compliment the strengths of the talent.

& that has been done with DW4...too

Why can't O'Brien's offense be consisistent with out ONE injury-prone QB? That's scheme, not QB.

No offense is the same or even consistent when they lose key guys....not consistent long term anyway. Besides, consistency on offense rests mostly with the QB. & until DW4 himself gets more consistent, you can expect the offense to continue to be inconsistent. We saw it with Schaub as well.

O'Brien is a coach with a scheme that he makes every QB learn. This is simple fact. Study the history of O'Brien. He's done it with every QB that has been in Htown. It's that "game plan offense" that he learned in NE, but what he appears to miss is that NE would still customize their scheme according to the talent on their roster. That's why they could go from a deep threat with Moss to a two TE set to a scheme that utilizes the short passing game. Plus, he had a GOAT QB that was already HoF when O'Brien got there.

Lol of course it's"simple fact" b/c every HC in the league does that..& all of them customize their scheme to their qbs too....to a point. What we saw in Baltimore where the entire offense is completely overhauled to accentuate a qbs talents, that's not the norm. Even still, you saw where that got them in the playoffs.

As far as Watson being a company man, he's a professional. He's not going to rock the boat, especially when contract time is around the corner. And he knows that he's a team leader and has to tow the line. He does not have the egotistical personality to bring that negative attention to his head coach.

And maybe he's just drinking the koolaide. More power to him. It's his career that's going to be wasted with O'Brien.

Or..............perhaps he just understands that at the end of the day, its players not plays......and execution beats scheme everyday & twice on sundays. You get insights into what he really thinks about that stuff in his explanation of that trick play they ran in NE.."We didn't really get the look we wanted but me and Nuk, we were just gonna make it work.." or something to that effect. Giving some canned response wasn't gonna rock the boat....he could've done that & left it up to the media to do what they were all ready to do anyway. Dismissing his response as him being "a company man" or him "drinking the koolaid"..that implies the young man doesn't know or understand the role his coach is supposed to play in his development...he's just happy to be here.

At the end of the day, we can all speculate, but that dude as well as alot of dudes in that locker room ride for BoB. If he was 1/2 as terrible as some of ya'll say he is, I gotta believe there'd be a whole helluva lot more grumblings coming out of that locker room.
 
You're evidence that OB is a good coach after all is the fact that Watson won't go on television and trash him as a HC?

As if Watson has the type of history where he would try to humiliate someone like that.

Very few players act like Richard Sherman or Baker Mayfield. To act like Watson would even do that in the first place is disengenious.

Try to keep up. I know DW4 wasn't going to "trash him"..that's not in his nature. But he damn sure didn't have to go as far as he did in endorsing him either...& i don't think he would've if he felt BoB was in anyway holding him or the team back.

He went above and beyond in saying what he said and answered quickly and emphatically when that question came..."i love that man..." "As long as i'm qb here he's got my heart.." The assertion that he's being a company man b/c he's got a big pay day coming......Look that dude is getting paid regardless of who his HC is. Could've easily gave a middling response that doesn't indicate his feeling either way about him. Of course that could change in the future....but right now........

He is the only one in that locker room who really knows..Not Clint Stoerner, not Seth Payne, not Greg Cossell or Nick Wright. Dude is trying to tell ya'll. Ya'll just don't want to listen...
 
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