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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

Texazan

Our HOF 34
I dont hate anybody. I see you left out the part where I said some of the same things about Schaub/Os, I wonder why? BTW, I didn't hate them either. Speaking of comedy thanks for giving me a good laugh. It's quite entertaining.

What is Clutchcity?
It’s actually cluthfans. Rockets BBS
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You know it's going to happen.

I'm not blaming DW4 for all that's wrong with the Texans. He's their beest player. (Part of the problem.) But he does share responsibility for this lost season and what's going to be a lost decade.
Well it seems like you've blamed Watson for everything since Rick left. You were blaming Rick since Kubiak left & you were blaming Kubiak when he was here.

If Watson retired I'm sure you'll find someone
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Well it seems like you've blamed Watson for everything since Rick left. You were blaming Rick since Kubiak left & you were blaming Kubiak when he was here.

If Watson retired I'm sure you'll find someone
Nope

I blamed Rick because he wasn't good at his job. I blamed Kubiak because he was to conservative. I blamed BOB for being to conservative and said that he should've held onto Hopkins for 1 more yr.

I blamed Schaub for his inconsistencies after he got hurt. I said Os sucked from the 3rd game and I've said the Texans will never win a SB with DW4 because after next yr he's going to eat up to much cap room to put a team around him and although he's a good QB, he's not an elite top 5 QB.

Most of all since 2010 I've blamed the McNair's for this clusterfvck.

So to say I'm only blaming DW4 is not only wrong, but it's an attempt by some to try to make me look like I'm a racist because I disagree with them (I said some of the same things about Os but that's not good enough for the DW4 nuthuggers) and for them to call out posters who like my posts just make them look like the petty POS they are. (Not you)
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Nope

I blamed Rick because he wasn't good at his job. I blamed Kubiak because he was to conservative. I blamed BOB for being to conservative and said that he should've held onto Hopkins for 1 more yr.

I blamed Schaub for his inconsistencies after he got hurt. I said Os sucked from the 3rd game and I've said the Texans will never win a SB with DW4 because after next yr he's going to eat up to much cap room to put a team around him and although he's a good QB, he's not an elite top 5 QB.

Most of all since 2010 I've blamed the McNair's for this clusterfvck.

So to say I'm only blaming DW4 is not only wrong, but it's an attempt by some to try to make me look like I'm a racist because I disagree with them (I said some of the same things about Os but that's not good enough for the DW4 nuthuggers) and for them to call out posters who like my posts just make them look like the petty POS they are. (Not you)
That's what I said. Cliff note version
 

Texazan

Our HOF 34
You know it's going to happen.

I'm not blaming DW4 for all that's wrong with the Texans. He's their beest player. (Part of the problem.) But he does share responsibility for this lost season and what's going to be a lost decade.
Wait, he’s not responsible for a lost decade but I do agree he gets to take blame for this season also and he’s said as much himself.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Wait, he’s not responsible for a lost decade but I do agree he gets to take blame for this season also and he’s said as much himself.
Well of course he does but let’s be real here for a split second or two. How many game winning drives did he have this season, only to watch JJ and his defense give it away? How is any of that his fault? And of course he’s going to say the political correct response. He’s a leader like that.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Wait, he’s not responsible for a lost decade but I do agree he gets to take blame for this season also and he’s said as much himself.
His cap hit is what's going to lead to the lost decade even if he changes the way he plays.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Well of course he does but let’s be real here for a split second or two. How many game winning drives did he have this season, only to watch JJ and his defense give it away? How is any of that his fault? And of course he’s going to say the political correct response. He’s a leader like that.
I'm going to say he needs to play better against top defenses and figure out a way to learn how to play better on 1st drives against ALL teams.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I’m back. Have you looked through history to see what happens? Watson’s contract won’t be a problem.
Yes I have and no QB making more than 13.2% of the cap has ever won a SB and I dont expect DW4 to be the guy to break this trend.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yes I have and no QB making more than 13.2% of the cap has ever won a SB and I dont expect DW4 to be the guy to break this trend.
Aaron Rodgers will probably do it this year.

still, neither you or I think this team will be contending for a Super bowl in 2021 or 2022. By the time 2023 comes around I’m sure his salary will be more in line with history
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Take a look at history and get back with me.
History.....is in the past. Unfortunately, history doesn't always identify the future. The Mahomes and Watson contracts have ushered in a new era in the pay level of top tier NFL QB's. That will not regress for QB's considered some of the best at their postion. As with every pay jump in the NFL......the league will adapt and move forward.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Aaron Rodgers will probably do it this year.

still, neither you or I think this team will be contending for a Super bowl in 2021 or 2022. By the time 2023 comes around I’m sure his salary will be more in line with history
Maybe Rodgers will be the one to do it. Somebody eventually will reset that number. DW4 Ain't gonna be the one to do it.

Hope you're right.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
History.....is in the past. Unfortunately, history doesn't always identify the future. The Mahomes and Watson contracts have ushered in a new era in the pay level of top tier NFL QB's. That will not regress for QB's considered some of the best at their postion. As with every pay jump in the NFL......the league will adapt and move forward.
The league hasn't adapted since 1994.

That's over a quarter of a century worth of evidence.

Somebody will break through. (Probably Mahomes or Rodgers) But it hasn't happened yet and until it does then teams should prepare accordingly.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
The league hasn't adapted since 1994.

That's over a quarter of a century worth of evidence.

Somebody will break through. (Probably Mahomes or Rodgers) But it hasn't happened yet and until it does then teams should prepare accordingly.
Well QB contracts have never jumped like this in the NFL in the past. It'll be up to Mahomes or Watson to prove who can be the first to do it. At some point, some other QB will be paid even more.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Aaron Rodgers will probably do it this year.

still, neither you or I think this team will be contending for a Super bowl in 2021 or 2022. By the time 2023 comes around I’m sure his salary will be more in line with history

That's what the Texans were thinking when they gave him the deal , by the time he got to the tail end of it , it would be <15% of the total.

Question is if revenue recovers at a rate suitable to make that happen or not and I'm not so sure that's a reasonable expectation.
The NBA has 5 teams with fans in seats with percentages between 18% and 1.5% capacity. The other 25 teams are at 0 capacity.

That's why I would have waited to the end of this year to give him that extension when we have a clearer understanding of league economics going forward.
They lost 31% of revenue as compared to last season .... What's the projection for 2021 ?!
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
You have to win games to be elite.
I'm going to say he needs to play better against top defenses and figure out a way to learn how to play better on 1st drives against ALL teams.
Question for you. For the sake of this discussion let’s talk QBs in general vs Watson specifically. How are QBs supposed to win games with the defense we’ve been trotting out there this year? We have no pass rush outside of Watt. We have DBs that can’t cover and blow assignments at a high rate. We run defensive schemes that allow teams to complete passes in the flats and run for 7-8 yds before encountering defenders. We are one of the worst run defenses in NFL history. I think these are facts vs opinions. I don’t know what Rodgers, Brady or Manning would do differently. For us to win games right now our offense has to play perfect football, and they haven’t. We’ve had terrible snaps by the center, WRs fumble the ball and drop catchable passes, T getting blown by like they’re standing still, ect ect.

For QBs to beat high level defenses a running game, or at least the threat of a running game would help. When there’s no need to worry about the run the DL can pin their ears back and rush with no fear of negative consequences. Play action isn’t anywhere near as effective so it’s harder to create space for receivers to operate. There’s no need for opposing defenses to load the box, allowing the safeties to stay back. Again, IMO, these are facts on FB in general.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Question for you. For the sake of this discussion let’s talk QBs in general vs Watson specifically. How are QBs supposed to win games with the defense we’ve been trotting out there this year? We have no pass rush outside of Watt. We have DBs that can’t cover and blow assignments at a high rate. We run defensive schemes that allow teams to complete passes in the flats and run for 7-8 yds before encountering defenders. We are one of the worst run defenses in NFL history. I think these are facts vs opinions. I don’t know what Rodgers, Brady or Manning would do differently. For us to win games right now our offense has to play perfect football, and they haven’t. We’ve had terrible snaps by the center, WRs fumble the ball and drop catchable passes, T getting blown by like they’re standing still, ect ect.

For QBs to beat high level defenses a running game, or at least the threat of a running game would help. When there’s no need to worry about the run the DL can pin their ears back and rush with no fear of negative consequences. Play action isn’t anywhere near as effective so it’s harder to create space for receivers to operate. There’s no need for opposing defenses to load the box, allowing the safeties to stay back. Again, IMO, these are facts on FB in general.
I agree with you. The defense sucks the offense sucks, the team sucks and DW4 has contributed to that suckage. Some around here want to absolve him of all or atleast most responsibility for anything and everything.

But lets see them start scoring on 1st drives. The fact also is this offense has negative trends that go back to the end of last yr.

For your real answer read Corrosions post # 1282 in the DW4 good plays thread. He explained this far better than I ever could. He used numbers that maybe some of the numbers geeks (Not You) can understand. (Doubtful.)
 
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banned1976

All Pro
Ya know the old saying, the QB gets too much credit and too much blame. How do we apply that with the current situation?
How do you apply it to the current situation? In 2019 the Texans finished the regular season 10-6, won a playoff game and took a big lead into the 2nd quarter in KC in their second round match-up. The year before that, the Texans finished with a 11-5 record. Now they're 4-11. Did Watson regress or did something else happen?

We can either be drawn in by cliche's or use some common sense. The defense has been steadily regressing for a few years now. They gave up nearly 4300 yards passing yards and close to 2000 yards on the ground last season. The powers that be decided not only were they not going to add pieces to help that defense, they depleted it of talent once again. I wrote about the issues with the defense before the season began. I mean, how can you be so bad on defense for pretty much the back half of one season and say, "I like that, I'm going to try to keep THAT defense together".

But not helping the defense wasn't the only blunder, as we all know. They decided to trade one of the best receivers in the game while taking on a horrible contract attached to a reclamation project at RB. And up until week 14 that RB has been a massive failure.

TBH, I was pretty disappointed in Watson's 2019 campaign. He continued to hold onto the ball too long and created too many sacks. And I wrote when it happened, I liked Watson but I didn't think he was worth the price the Texans paid to move up in the 2017 draft to get him. But finally this season, Watson blossomed into the quarterback that I honestly didn't think he was capable of becoming. He's had an MVP season and I'm convinced he would be a front runner, maybe even winning it, if only the defense and running game was just average. No doubt in my mind about that.

In my estimation, any blame thrown at Watson for this "lost" season is unwarranted. That's just how I feel about it, if others think differently, that's fine. I will end with this - I don't think for a second any member here blames Watson for anything other than for his play. I don't believe anyone here hates Watson, or criticizes him because of who he is. It's purely football related. I disagree with their assessment of his play if they are to blame him for this crummy season, but that's it.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
How do you apply it to the current situation? In 2019 the Texans finished the regular season 10-6, won a playoff game and took a big lead into the 2nd quarter in KC in their second round match-up. The year before that, the Texans finished with a 11-5 record. Now they're 4-11. Did Watson regress or did something else happen?

We can either be drawn in by cliche's or use some common sense. The defense has been steadily regressing for a few years now. They gave up nearly 4300 yards passing yards and close to 2000 yards on the ground last season. The powers that be decided not only were they not going to add pieces to help that defense, they depleted it of talent once again. I wrote about the issues with the defense before the season began. I mean, how can you be so bad on defense for pretty much the back half of one season and say, "I like that, I'm going to try to keep THAT defense together".

But not helping the defense wasn't the only blunder, as we all know. They decided to trade one of the best receivers in the game while taking on a horrible contract attached to a reclamation project at RB. And up until week 14 that RB has been a massive failure.

TBH, I was pretty disappointed in Watson's 2019 campaign. He continued to hold onto the ball too long and created too many sacks. And I wrote when it happened, I liked Watson but I didn't think he was worth the price the Texans paid to move up in the 2017 draft to get him. But finally this season, Watson blossomed into the quarterback that I honestly didn't think he was capable of becoming. He's had an MVP season and I'm convinced he would be a front runner, maybe even winning it, if only the defense and running game was just average. No doubt in my mind about that.

In my estimation, any blame thrown at Watson for this "lost" season is unwarranted. That's just how I feel about it, if others think differently, that's fine. I will end with this - I don't think for a second any member here blames Watson for anything other than for his play. I don't believe anyone here hates Watson, or criticizes him because of who he is. It's purely football related. I disagree with their assessment of his play if they are to blame him for this crummy season, but that's it.

I don't necessarily blame him for the crummy record .... The defense is pathetic and just like you complained about it early on , so did I .... particularly letting Reader walk. Teams have run all over them , just as I predicted in before the first snap of the season.

Last years running game was at least respectable and the only change this season is DJ for Hyde. The rest of the team in regards to running the football is identical .... Yet the results are dramatically different averaging 34 fewer yards a game.

They are scoring a similar amount of points this year as compared to last 23.6 last season to 23.1 this year. Last years scoring total was good for 14th and this years is 22nd.

Holding the ball too long .... It's still happening. Remember the sack numbers I posted above 46% of plays he's holding the ball longer than 3 seconds? People just don't notice it because of the Houdini highlights and the other numbers appear so good. His highlights are spectacular and they are what we remember .... the OL's lowlights are pretty comical and the narrative is that they are bad on a high percentage of plays but that's not the case. Those are actually relatively rare but they are the plays that the Tweet monsters post to further their narrative.
Incidentally , he has one more sack this season thru 15 games than he did in 15 games last year 45/44. And an identical 8.2% sack rate.
Another incidental stat - All of his interceptions this year have come on plays where he held the ball greater than 3 seconds. 8 out of 12 picks last year came on 3+ second plays as well.

We've blamed everything on OB the system & playcalling yet since he's left , nothing's really changed.
They still start slow , haven't scored on opening drives 2 TD's and 2 FG's over the last two seasons.
 
History.....is in the past. Unfortunately, history doesn't always identify the future. The Mahomes and Watson contracts have ushered in a new era in the pay level of top tier NFL QB's. That will not regress for QB's considered some of the best at their postion. As with every pay jump in the NFL......the league will adapt and move forward.
Thats just it moving forward its going to be worse because the cap is going down. Now maybe the big money contracts will get redone with that in mind but really why should they. If i got a 160 million contract and knew one wrong hit and my career is over I'm not dropping my price.

The league hasn't apapted like you think it has or think it will. It has adapted by either a QB taking a pay cut like Brady or trying to win it in a QBs rookie year like KC. IF GB wins it this year then they will have done something no other team has figured out how to do. Win the big game with a big money contract. Even then its not proof that it can be done regularly, every rule has an exception.
 

ClemsonTexan

Waterboy
Holding the ball too long .... It's still happening. Remember the sack numbers I posted above 46% of plays he's holding the ball longer than 3 seconds? People just don't notice it because of the Houdini highlights and the other numbers appear so good. His highlights are spectacular and they are what we remember .... the OL's lowlights are pretty comical and the narrative is that they are bad on a high percentage of plays but that's not the case. Those are actually relatively rare but they are the plays that the Tweet monsters post to further their narrative.
Do you ever think you post the same information over...

...and over...

..and over again...without providing much in the way of context...to further your narrative?

Incidentally , he has one more sack this season thru 15 games than he did in 15 games last year 45/44. And an identical 8.2% sack rate.
Another incidental stat - All of his interceptions this year have come on plays where he held the ball greater than 3 seconds. 8 out of 12 picks last year came on 3+ second plays as well.
Does anyone else find it odd that the same names that are invoked day-in/day-out (Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes) as models of what Watson should aspire to be hold the ball longer than Watson and/or take sacks at a higher rate?

Let's take Rodgers for example. During the 2012 season, his numbers were fairly comparable to Watson's this season (39 TDs, 8 INTs, 4,295 yards, 108.0 passer rating) while getting sacked on 8.5% of his dropbacks. In fact, Rodgers has the lowest sack rate of his career this season (3.4%)--it only took him 13 seasons as an NFL starter to achieve a single season sack rate that is lower than Drew Brees' career sack rate (3.8%). Russell Wilson has been sacked on 8.4% of his dropbacks over the course of his entire career. These are features, not bugs, of these players because they have a more high risk/high reward style of play. And that's as much a function of the offense as it is the decision-making of the QBs. Josh Allen's sack rate has dropped from 7.7% last year to 4.4% this year and that is as much a credit to Brian Daboll's playcalling as it is to Allen.

And how silly is it to point out that his INTs have come when holding the ball more than 3 seconds? He only has 6. And he actually has the fewest turnover worthy throws of any QB according to PFF. Your argument would probably have some merit if he weren't taking good care of the football, but that's not the case. He's slinging the ball through tight windows all over the field while simultaneously minimizing the risk of turnovers.
 

amazing80

Fire Easterby
Do you ever think you post the same information over...

...and over...

..and over again...without providing much in the way of context...to further your narrative?



Does anyone else find it odd that the same names that are invoked day-in/day-out (Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes) as models of what Watson should aspire to be hold the ball longer than Watson and/or take sacks at a higher rate?

Let's take Rodgers for example. During the 2012 season, his numbers were fairly comparable to Watson's this season (39 TDs, 8 INTs, 4,295 yards, 108.0 passer rating) while getting sacked on 8.5% of his dropbacks. In fact, Rodgers has the lowest sack rate of his career this season (3.4%)--it only took him 13 seasons as an NFL starter to achieve a single season sack rate that is lower than Drew Brees' career sack rate (3.8%). Russell Wilson has been sacked on 8.4% of his dropbacks over the course of his entire career. These are features, not bugs, of these players because they have a more high risk/high reward style of play. And that's as much a function of the offense as it is the decision-making of the QBs. Josh Allen's sack rate has dropped from 7.7% last year to 4.4% this year and that is as much a credit to Brian Daboll's playcalling as it is to Allen.

And how silly is it to point out that his INTs have come when holding the ball more than 3 seconds? He only has 6. And he actually has the fewest turnover worthy throws of any QB according to PFF. Your argument would probably have some merit if he weren't taking good care of the football, but that's not the case. He's slinging the ball through tight windows all over the field while simultaneously minimizing the risk of turnovers.
It's amazing how we finally have a star QB who is playing at an all-time high level and posters on this board continually try to tear him down. No wonder players don't take the fans seriously.
 

CWTexansFan

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contributor's Club
What heat. Lol man you’re too freaking comical. Both you and the guy who likes everything you post. Dude this stuff is not that serious but your hate is known already these parts and probably on Clutchcity
Why do you keep bringing me up? I don't hate anyone, even you, precious, little snowflake.
Speaking of comical, digging your new screen name.
 

banned1976

All Pro
Why do you keep bringing me up? I don't hate anyone, even you, precious, little snowflake.
Speaking of comical, digging your new screen name.
This one is just hanging out there, marinating in the hot sun...lol. I've had my arrow over the "like" prompt since you wrote it but I just can't pull the trigger....oh, the heck with it!
 


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