VY worked out and nobody cares?

[Hervoyel]

So I guess it was only Houstonians and UT alum at Vince's ProDay...... or does that lie fall to a different set of rules??

I didn't say anything about Vince's pro day so I don't know what "lie" you are talking about. Many people seem to think that he'll go the Raiders in the first round so obviously somebody other than the Texans wants him. If he miracled his way into the second round (I know it will never happen, I'm speaking hypothetically) then I'd be surprised if the Texans didn't take him and I'd think they got a steal.

I was responding to Nighthawks post where he suggested that nobody in the NFL wanted Reggie Bush. That was an absurd thing to say.

 

[jerek]

are those my only choices?? they weren't prone to running into sacks.... I don't think any of them ran out of bounds with the ball behind the L.O.S. & if they did, I'm sure it was only once. I can't recall Dante falling down, and curling up in the fetal position... I don't think staring at a reciever was a problem any of them had(I'm not a big Drew Brees Fan, so I may be wrong here, on all accounts).
for the most part, interceptions, sacks and all, Dante, and Kitna, I was very high on when they came into the league. I always thought of Kitna as a smart Bret Favre(I see the error in that now). I think both needed time to adjust to the NFL, learn their schemes, and the talent around them needed to be improved. But through all their faults, I saw many, many sparks of greatness.
In all honesty, I thought Holmgren held on to Kitna 1 year to many, but it seems to have worked out for Mike anyway...... great guy, you gotta love him.

I said no one expects Carr to turn it around in one year......... not that no one expects Carr to turn around in one year. It was in response to someone saying it'll take Reggie 2 years before he becomes a bigger part of the O

I will take Carr running out of bounds behind the line before I take Daunte fumbling or throwing a bonehead INT. Both are stupid mistakes, but one of them costs your team the ball, and the other doesn't. As for Kitna ... how long has he been in the league? Two pretty good years out of nine in the league ... that makes him better than Carr how? Do the math. Some people like Vince Young, some people don't like David Carr, and you've lost just about all objectivity in being both.

 

[thunderkyss]

I will take Carr running out of bounds behind the line before I take Daunte fumbling or throwing a bonehead INT. Both are stupid mistakes, but one of them costs your team the ball, and the other doesn't. As for Kitna ... how long has he been in the league? Two pretty good years out of nine in the league ... that makes him better than Carr how? Do the math. Some people like Vince Young, some people don't like David Carr, and you've lost just about all objectivity in being both.

I don't like Kitna........ I was a fan of his when he got drafted. I trusted Holmgrens judgement of talent, and was impressed with his play, the first 3 or so years of his carreer. I don't think he stepped up to what he needed to do...... I'll agree it's kind of hard to take control of an offense with Holmgren on the sideline, but Kitna needed to establish himself as Field General..... like Hassleback has done....... He also had to get better, and make less mistakes the more he played. He didn't do either...... he didn't take charge in Cincy, and he kept making the same mistakes, so he's not in Cincy either.......

Dante hasn't had a running game since Robert Smith retired. They've been one dimensional for the longest time, with a WR who "takes" plays off. Robert Smith, and Chris Carter...... that's what made the Vikings back in the day. no doubt, Randy helped, but I don't think he was worth keeping trough all his baggage.

I can't wait to see Dante in Miami.... with Chris Chambers, and Ricky Williams(fingers crossed) or Ronnie Brown....... oooohhhh... oooooohhh.... weeeee........ very exciting indeed....

 

[texan279]

I don't like Kitna........ I was a fan of his when he got drafted. I trusted Holmgrens judgement of talent, and was impressed with his play, the first 3 or so years of his carreer. I don't think he stepped up to what he needed to do...... I'll agree it's kind of hard to take control of an offense with Holmgren on the sideline, but Kitna needed to establish himself as Field General..... like Hassleback has done....... He also had to get better, and make less mistakes the more he played. He didn't do either...... he didn't take charge in Cincy, and he kept making the same mistakes, so he's not in Cincy either.......

Dante hasn't had a running game since Robert Smith retired. They've been one dimensional for the longest time, with a WR who "takes" plays off. Robert Smith, and Chris Carter...... that's what made the Vikings back in the day. no doubt, Randy helped, but I don't think he was worth keeping trough all his baggage.

I can't wait to see Dante in Miami.... with Chris Chambers, and Ricky Williams(fingers crossed) or Ronnie Brown....... oooohhhh... oooooohhh.... weeeee........ very exciting indeed....

Robert Smith retired after 2000, he and Daunte only played one season together. Minnesota's running game didn't go to crap until last season. In 2004 their rushing offense was ranked 18th in the NFL, in 2003 it was ranked 4th in the NFL, in 2002 it was ranked 1st in the NFL.

 

[jerek]

I can't wait to see Dante in Miami.... with Chris Chambers, and Ricky Williams(fingers crossed) or Ronnie Brown....... oooohhhh... oooooohhh.... weeeee........ very exciting indeed....

I could agree with that. Saban is making himself a squad out there.

 

[tulexan]

If Daunte is healthy, Miami could very well be the team to beat in the AFC next year.

 

[Chicagotexan1]

This is the triumph of the small-minded. I'm stunned. This board has gone dead.

Yeah, I know it's unlikely we'll make the smart move and take Young, or better yet, trade down and still take Young, but for his workout here not to cause the slightest stir is thought prokoking.

Maybe it's just as well. Bush will be fine, or, if we're lucky, somebody else will want Bush enough to make a decent offer for him (and I think we'd trade the #1 for anything approaching a decent offer).

Right now Bush is the greatest college football player who ever played the game who nobody in the NFL really wants! Crazy!

Nope, he's not the player I want. At least not at #1 overall. The fervor for VY coming to Houston is only contained to Houston. And mainly because he's from Houston. That's not good enough. ConVINCE me he is the BPA, then I'll want him, but Reggie Bush is the BPA and that's who I want.

 

[hollywood_texan]

Nope, he's not the player I want. At least not at #1 overall. The fervor for VY coming to Houston is only contained to Houston. And mainly because he's from Houston. That's not good enough. ConVINCE me he is the BPA, then I'll want him, but Reggie Bush is the BPA and that's who I want.

We shouldn't draft the best player available. We should draft the best player that fits our system.

First figure out the system that has the best chances of winning championship and then evaluate the talent and draft accordingly.

Bush will probably have an amazing career, but that doesn't guarantee he will win a championship. It's amazing how many one-in-a-lifetime talents are unable to win a championship in any sport at the highest level.

My opinion, the best system to win a Super Bowl is a stout defense and churning up yards between the tackles. Living off of creating mismatches with defenses works in the regular season and can put up gaudy stats, but when crunch time hits, those teams have a hard time succeeding. Most recent example is the Colts.

 

[thunderkyss]

Robert Smith retired after 2000, he and Daunte only played one season together. Minnesota's running game didn't go to crap until last season. In 2004 their rushing offense was ranked 18th in the NFL, in 2003 it was ranked 4th in the NFL, in 2002 it was ranked 1st in the NFL.

Hey, I've always said I've got a bad memory...... I thought he Smith & Dante were together for two years....... I'm almost sure of it. as for the Vikings running game ranking 18th, 4th, and 1st......... shew, I can't remember that either....... who was doing all that runnig?? I didn't think they had a running back worth taliking about.

 

[DRAMA]

That's true at 25 but not necessarily true at 1. If we could pick a player that would guarantee championships then of course we should do it. However, there are no guarantees so you take best player in the country. Granted, there are several who could be considered BPA - Bush, Vince, Mario, Brick but how do you decide? None are locks to be champions.

Kubiak, I believe, thinks with Bush he'll have a weapon that is unique at this point in the NFL. It's not a bad strategy if the other holes are filled as well...which have been pretty well addressed so far. Add Winston at #2, Hali, Tapp, Colledge or Eslinger at 3's and maybe a fast WR like Orr at 4 and you're doing pretty well, IMHO.

 

[JAXwithanX]

I personally believe we will be taking Bush because of more than anything...our circumstances. First year head coach, team who tumbled from average to abyssmal, and the need to win now in this city are all aspects that have to be considered. These are the times when you take the player that best insures an immediate impact. To draft someone with the Number 1 pick right now....and have them bust....would be detrimental to all levels of the organization. More FO staff would be fired, people would lose faith in coach, player morale would be down further. Because even if Number 2 goes on to be better than the player you drafted number 1, as long as your pick did his part to improve the record and fill a need, no one is going to revolt. To sum up my feelings really, I think VY will end up being the best player, I think Bush is going to great maybe even as good, and I don't blame our team one bit for not gambling on VY. We just can't do it in this situation. Especially after the way people are excited from our offseason transactions already.

 

[Chicagotexan1]

We shouldn't draft the best player available. We should draft the best player that fits our system.

First figure out the system that has the best chances of winning championship and then evaluate the talent and draft accordingly.

Bush will probably have an amazing career, but that doesn't guarantee he will win a championship. It's amazing how many one-in-a-lifetime talents are unable to win a championship in any sport at the highest level.

My opinion, the best system to win a Super Bowl is a stout defense and churning up yards between the tackles. Living off of creating mismatches with defenses works in the regular season and can put up gaudy stats, but when crunch time hits, those teams have a hard time succeeding. Most recent example is the Colts.

No one player guarantees a championship. Not Reggie, not Vince not a one. As far as drafting for our system, well we have a O-minded HC so why not give him the best Offesive player available. Reggie Bush.

 

[thunderkyss]

I personally believe we will be taking Bush because of more than anything...our circumstances. First year head coach, team who tumbled from average to abyssmal, and the need to win now in this city are all aspects that have to be considered. These are the times when you take the player that best insures an immediate impact.

Well.......
Trust me..... if Houston picks up Vince Young, The need to win now is greatly diminished......... even if we start Carr.

Prior to Jan 5, we all thought our biggest need was OL...... so much so, that taking an OL with the #1 overall wasn't out of the question. Things said about Pitts, Resigning Weary, and solidifying McKinney's position at LG pretty much killed that idea.
Next, we thought our pass rush was the next biggest need to pick up our defensive play. We thought Mario Williams would be a good pick with the #1 overall. Gary Kubiak seems to have the stop the run first defensive mindset, and picked up Anthony weaver...... $13 million contract, big bonus, he's going to start. GK has said that he believes A.Peek, an J.Babin will provide a decent if not good pass rush. Then we've got Nd Kalu........ who I believe is a pretty balanced end...... decent against the run, strong enough to bull rush the QB...... IF we keep Weaver, Peek, Babin, and Kalu, that'll be a really nice defensive rotation.
I'm more than happy giving Buchanon the starting job to open the season, especially in the 4-3. I think he & Faggins will play alot better with the CB responsibilities more streamlined. I like CC Brown at Free Safety........ I've never thought CB, FS, WR was that big of a need.
T.E. we did need. Jeb Putzier is young, he's good, and he is versatile. Good size, good hands, and good speed. He was the top rated T.E. in FA, with other notables, like Chad Lewis, and Dan Campbell. Two Prety good TEs.
And that's it...... our biggest needs.

We're down to two runnigbacks....... we need to add another RB to our roster. I've got a mancrush on a particular QB... though. For me, a perfect Draft would be to trade down with New York. They take Reggie, we take Vince @4, then we take D'Angelo, Mauroney, or Addai with the 29th....... or put our 32nd & 33rd together to move up and get one of them.

To draft someone with the Number 1 pick right now....and have them bust....would be detrimental to all levels of the organization. More FO staff would be fired, people would lose faith in coach, player morale would be down further.

I don't think so. We've dealt with #1 overall busts pretty well so far. Capers is gone, Cass will be leaving pretty soon. If the NFL front office rumors are true. So we don't have many more F.O. positions we really care about. I mean No one even remembers Feren....Pheren(sp)??

Now, I addressed needs earlier.......... Let's talk about wants.
There are alot of Texans fans that wanted another playmaker to take pressure off David Car, and Andre Johnson. Reggie Bush was/is thought to be that guy. But think about it. Andre, Moulds(two #1 WRs, two ProBowlers)... Jeb Putz..... let's look at his scouting report:

Acquired: Draft #6 (191st overall), 2002

• Putzier enjoyed the finest season of his career in 2004 as he ranked fourth among AFC tight ends (9th in NFL) with 572 yards receiving and placed 12th in receptions by an AFC tight end with 36.
• His 15.9 yards-per-reception average led the AFC (2nd in NFL) among eligible tight ends and was the best average by a Broncos tight end in 25 years (No. 3 all-time).

2004: Putzier’s athleticism gave Denver the ability to stretch the field during the 2004 regular season game, and the former college receiver led the Broncos’ tight ends with 36 catches for 572 yards (15.9 avg.) in 16 games (5 starts). He ranked fourth in the AFC (9th in NFL) among tight ends in receiving yards while he placed 12th in receptions by an AFC tight end. He led the AFC (2nd in NFL) among eligible tight ends with a 15.9 yards-per-reception average, which was the best average by a Broncos tight end in 25 years (No. 3 all-time). In addition to his duties at tight end, Putzier took on added responsibility as an H-back for Denver in certain formations. In Denver’s regular-season finale vs. Ind. (1/2), he recorded a career-high 67 yards receiving on three catches (22.3 avg.) as Denver clinched a playoff spot for the second consecutive year. He enjoyed one of his strongest games of the season at Tenn. (12/25) with four receptions for 60 yards (15.0 avg.). He used his speed to pick up 34 yards on a reception against the Titans that moved Denver to the Tennessee 6-yard line on its way to a touchdown. With the Broncos opening their game at K.C. (12/19) in a two tight-end set, he started and caught three passes for 30 yards (10.0 avg.). Putzier converted a fourth-and-6 in the fourth quarter vs. Mia. (12/12) with a 19-yard reception, and he totaled two catches for 30 yards (15.0 avg.) in Denver’s win against the Dolphins. He kept the Broncos’ comeback attempt alive at S.D. (12/5) with a career-high 39-yard catch, his only reception, in the fourth quarter. Putzier’s lone catch vs. Oak. (11/28) was an 18-yard reception in the first quarter. He was significantly involved in Denver’s offense at N.O. (11/21), catching four passes for 36 yards (9.0 avg.). In the third quarter against the Saints, he caught three passes (10, 9 and 11 yds.) that went for first downs. Putzier hauled in a highlight-reel worthy 34-yard touchdown in the first quarter vs. Hou. (11/7) as part of a two-catch, 48-yard (24.0 avg.) receiving day against the Texans. On his touchdown reception, Putzier caught the pass from Jake Plummer and then froze Texans cornerback Dunta Robinson with a stutter step along the left sideline before he raced in for the score. His speed turned a short catch into a career-long 38-yard reception in the second quarter vs. Atl. (10/31) during a two-catch, 47-yard (23.5 avg.) day against the Falcons. On Monday Night Football at Cin. (10/25), Putzier was held without a catch for only the second time this season. With three catches for 52 yards (17.3 avg.) along with his first career touchdown, Putzier led all Broncos in receiving at Oak. (10/17) while making his first start since the opener. Putzier’s day against the Raiders was highlighted by a 12-yard scoring catch in the first quarter as well as a 28-yard reception, which tied a career high, in the second quarter.

mmmm..hmmm....... pretty exciting stuff.

So we've got 2 #1 WRs on the field for every play. Both ProBowlers. then we have another WR playing T.E. who can be split out to the slot or moved to the HB position if needed. We've already got a pass catching H.B.who has avg 4.1 YPC over 3 years & a pass catching F.B.

Without Reggie Bush, or Vince Young, we've got one heck of a team..... a heck of a team........ Offense anyway....... a capable defense.

 

[jerek]

If Daunte is healthy, Miami could very well be the team to beat in the AFC next year.

Let's not go that far.