VY is a great passer

[BuffSoldier]

On TexasSports.com there is an article on the spring 2005 and it states that Vince Young is one of the most accurate passers in school history. They also blame his TD/INT ratio on their reliance on running in the red zone, taking away easy TD passes and the lack of goos WRs.

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/
Vince Young is the winningest quarterback after two years in school history at 17-2. Major was 17-6 and James Brown was 14-2-1. Vince has the highest percentage of passing completion after two years. He has been an outstanding passer for us. The ratio that needs to improve is 18 touchdowns and 18 interceptions. The thing that hurts his touchdown completion percentage is that he runs so well. We don't throw the ball as much down around the goal line as we used to. We are taking away some of his easy touchdown passes and we are making it more difficult for him. Where Vince separates himself from the bunch is with his feet.
In two years, Vince has gained 2,077 yards rushing, while after two years Donnie Little had gained 820 and Bret Stafford 351 yards. Obviously what Vince brings to us is the most accurate arm we've had with fewer passes. He has a touchdown to interception ratio we feel that can improve, and is the best quarterback with his feet. He's becoming one of the great passers in our school history, as well. He also probably had less experienced receivers than any of those other guys. Hopefully that will improve drastically as we improve.

Alot of people have been hating on Vince, saying he should play WR. Mack Brown doesnt think so.

 

[Fiddy]

I love Vince Young but the reason his completion rate is so high is because the main passing plays Mack runs for him is when Young bootlegs to the right where a TE comes free and he just dumps it off 7 yards and then the TE picks up another 5...

 

[Grid]

sounds like another one of Casserlys QB projects.

im REAL interested in BJ and Ragone over in europe. those guys are trade bait for the future. if one of them really shines.. we could use em to start stockpiling draft picks.

 

[Panther5407]

Vince may have a gun for a arm but there is no way this guy is really accurate. He can run, throw the ball a mile but games show that he isn't that great of a short yardage passer, not being able to fit balls were they need to be. He will make it to the NFL someday, but very doubtfull as a QB.

 

[BuffSoldier]

Vince may have a gun for a arm but there is no way this guy is really accurate. He can run, throw the ball a mile but games show that he isn't that great of a short yardage passer, not being able to fit balls were they need to be. He will make it to the NFL someday, but very doubtfull as a QB.

Give me a break I wouldnt be suprised if hes the second QB picked in the draft next year.(only behind Matt Leinhart) He has too much potetial. Did you see the Rose Bowl? Did you see how well he passed,as well as ran, he completely took over that game. I mean his Tes dropped 2 passes each, Benson dropped a pass, and Jeffrey dropped 2 but he still completed 16 of 28 passes. I see as much promise in him as I did Mike Vick coming out of college.

 

[texasguy346]

Give me a break I wouldnt be suprised if hes the second QB picked in the draft next year.(only behind Matt Leinhart) He has too much potetial.

I'd be hard pressed to put him as the #2 QB in the draft next year. Guys like Chris Leak out of Florida and Darell Hackney out of UAB (similar to Culpepper or McNair) could declare for the draft, and they're both already more of a finished product that the NFL looks for than Young.

 

[BuffSoldier]

Yes they are more polished QBs than VY but neither have the potential or athleticism that Vince has. He will improve from last year, and thats the scary thing, you already cant stop him running but as he progresses as a passer hell become more and more unstoppable.

 

[Vinny]

Vince Young reminds me of a very young, very unpolished Randall Cunningham. Cunningham went on to win 3 MVP's and was a great runner early in his career (he split time with Ron Jawarski at first), and later developed his similar long throwing motion into a viable NFL QB.

 

[Rovator]

I've seen him play a few times, and honestly have to see he is a pretty bad passer. A lot of his mid-long range throws have fairly low velocity, which leads to his high interception/pass attempt ratio.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Vince Young has a really strong arm . If you saw him the Army high school all star game he thew a ball 60 yds against the wind . I think their trying to shorten his delivery to get the ball out faster .

 

[BuffSoldier]

He has no problem getting the ball out with velocity, his right arm is a rocket, it all boils down to if he can learn to make better decisions and better throws.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

It just seems like he short arms the ball . I like watching Vince Young play . If Major Applewhite could work with Vince it would help . Major was a little guy with a weenie am and bad knees but he somehow got by .

 

[Panther5407]

Give me a break I wouldnt be suprised if hes the second QB picked in the draft next year.(only behind Matt Leinhart) He has too much potetial. Did you see the Rose Bowl? Did you see how well he passed,as well as ran, he completely took over that game. I mean his Tes dropped 2 passes each, Benson dropped a pass, and Jeffrey dropped 2 but he still completed 16 of 28 passes. I see as much promise in him as I did Mike Vick coming out of college.

I saw him beat them in the rose bowl with his legs and a couple boot legs to the TE, beyond that his passing wasn't that great. The guy is a great athlete but hasn't shown enough to be a dominate passer yet. Plus because of Mack Brown at Texas, VY won't leave untill after his senior year like everyone else has.

 

[texasguy346]

Yes they are more polished QBs than VY but neither have the potential or athleticism that Vince has. He will improve from last year, and thats the scary thing, you already cant stop him running but as he progresses as a passer hell become more and more unstoppable.

I'm not sure who you're watching but both Leak and Hackney have loads of potential. Leak's accuracy is already of NFL caliber, and he too will only improve. Not to mention he has a new head coach in Urban who likes to throw the ball around so Leak will have plenty of oppurtunites to improve. Hackney has a cannon for an arm, and his accuracy, although not as good as Leak's, is better than Young's. He's got good pocket awareness, and he too will likely improve as he matures as a QB. Leak has decent running ability, and he'll be able to run to get you a first down when he needs too. Hackney is able to run to move the chains too, but he's not the burner that Young is. The best attribute about Hackney is he's built like a LB or DE (kind of like Culpepper) and guys just bounce off of him when they try to hit him. Also, he has that Brady/Manning/McNabb like quality where they're constantly looking down the field to find the open receiver. I don't know about you, but I want my QB to get the ball into the hands of my playmakers down the field. Either way I'm pretty sure that both Leak and Hackney will be juniors next season, and they have as much time as Young to improve. Given that I think it will be hard for Young to be the 2nd QB taken with Leinhart likely to be the first one gone.

 

[Panther5407]

at-comp-yards-%-avg-td-int
11/13 @Kansas Win 27-23
22 40 289 55.0 7.2 1 2
Vince Young Texas

9/11 Wyoming Win 31-0
17 24 298 70.8 12.4 1 0
Reggie McNeal Texas A&M

9/14 @Bowling Green Loss 51-28
28 50 334 56.0 6.7 2 1
Brad Smith Missouri

10/5 @Arizona State Win 38-35
25 40 417 62.5 10.4 5 2
Darian Durant North Carolina

10/2 Arkansas Win 45-30
23 38 322 60.5 8.5 3 0
Chris Leak Florida

www.espn.com

I found these 5 QBs, getting there best game they have played (not all games from this past year). All of them have good running ability but what I'm focusing on is the passing. Vince still has to time to improve but he hasn't shown to be the premier passer. In two years, he has had only three games with 200+ passing yards where as Reggie McNeal has had 10 out of 13 games this season (including bowl game). And notice both Reggie and Vince came into college at the same time.

 

[Wolf]

On TexasSports.com there is an article on the spring 2005 and it states that Vince Young is one of the most accurate passers in school history. They also blame his TD/INT ratio on their reliance on running in the red zone, taking away easy TD passes and the lack of goos WRs.




Alot of people have been hating on Vince, saying he should play WR. Mack Brown doesnt think so.

Mack Brown is funny. I have yet to hear him say anything negative about anybody or anything. UT could be playing Gonzaga in football and Mack brown will find something positive to say about them and how dangerous of a football team they are.


VY to me has a ways to go in the throwing department. Granted he doesn't have the WR's that Simms and Applewhite had.

 

[BuffSoldier]

In two years, he has had only three games with 200+ passing yards where as Reggie McNeal has had 10 out of 13 games this season (including bowl game). And notice both Reggie and Vince came into college at the same time.

Dont you think that having a RB named Cedric Benson on your team had anything to do with that. When was the last time you heard someone say Courtney Lewis was a 1st rounder. Not to mention that they run so many QB sneaks and draws that they take away from his natural play making ability, hes gonna run the ball sometimes anyway, so why not drop him back and give him some WRs to look at? Thats another reason his passing game is so lacking, the OC or Mack Brown would call for him to throw 1 out of every 6 or 7 plays. H

 

[Huge]

On TexasSports.com there is an article on the spring 2005 and it states that Vince Young is one of the most accurate passers in school history. They also blame his TD/INT ratio on their reliance on running in the red zone, taking away easy TD passes and the lack of goos WRs.

I think there's an enormous difference between being an accurate QB and having a high completion percentage. Young's not even the most accurate QB on the team now. He's just the best college QB on the team.

Give me a break I wouldnt be suprised if hes the second QB picked in the draft next year.(only behind Matt Leinhart) He has too much potetial. Did you see the Rose Bowl? Did you see how well he passed,as well as ran, he completely took over that game. I mean his Tes dropped 2 passes each, Benson dropped a pass, and Jeffrey dropped 2 but he still completed 16 of 28 passes. I see as much promise in him as I did Mike Vick coming out of college.

And how many of those passes covered more than 15 yards thru the air? I saw the Rose Bowl. I saw a slow defense that was shredded by another QB that could run just 4 weeks earlier. Outstanding performance by Young. But one that would catapult him up the charts in the draft? Hardly.

Vince Young reminds me of a very young, very unpolished Randall Cunningham. Cunningham went on to win 3 MVP's and was a great runner early in his career (he split time with Ron Jawarski at first), and later developed his similar long throwing motion into a viable NFL QB.

I believe Favre is the only player to win 3 MVPs. In fact, I don't believe Cunningham won any.

Vince Young has a really strong arm . If you saw him the Army high school all star game he thew a ball 60 yds against the wind . I think their trying to shorten his delivery to get the ball out faster .

He has no problem getting the ball out with velocity, his right arm is a rocket, it all boils down to if he can learn to make better decisions and better throws.

It just seems like he short arms the ball . I like watching Vince Young play . If Major Applewhite could work with Vince it would help . Major was a little guy with a weenie am and bad knees but he somehow got by .

He doesn't short arm it...he's just got a flicted throwing motion. And sadly, it's getting worse. I think his other problem is he tries to aim the ball too much instead of just passing it. He has way too many overthrows and passes that are behind his receivers or hit the ground two feet short. If he could work on his footwork and step into his throws, this would fix some of those problems.

I found these 5 QBs, getting there best game they have played (not all games from this past year). All of them have good running ability but what I'm focusing on is the passing. Vince still has to time to improve but he hasn't shown to be the premier passer. In two years, he has had only three games with 200+ passing yards where as Reggie McNeal has had 10 out of 13 games this season (including bowl game). And notice both Reggie and Vince came into college at the same time.

Is it really a good idea to point out the lack of 200+ yard passing games for a QB that plays in a running offense? How many 100 yard rushing performances did those other teams have last year?

Young averaged 20 passes per game last season. It's pretty hard to top 200+ yards when you're not throwing the ball (or when you are throwing it you're dumping it off to your TEs).

He can throw the ball. But he's not the "2nd most accurate QB in Texas' history". And he won't be the 2nd QB taken in the draft behind Leinart if he decides to leave early. He's not a great passer but he doesn't have to be...at least not at this level.

Just don't confuse the greatness of a college QB with what's required to be a good NFL QB.

 

[Vinny]

Well, there were multiple awards back then and none were given officially by the NFL. He was never the "AP" winner if that is what you mean. It took Randall Cunningham 7 seasons to throw for 60% for the first time in the NFL. I'm not calling Young RC, but he is probably the guy closest to his bodytype and skill-set I have seen in the NFL if Young matures into a real NFL QB. Cunningham won the mvp in *1988, *1990, and *1998 and rushed for 3437 yards in his first 81 games (and he was a part time QB at first).

1988
• Boomer Esiason, QB - Cincinnati (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, "The Sporting News")
• Roger Craig, RB - San Francisco (Newspaper Enterprise Association)
• Randall Cunningham, QB - Philadelphia (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1990
• Randall Cunningham, QB - Philadelphia (Pro Football Writers Association of America)
• Joe Montana, QB - San Francisco (Associated Press)
• Jerry Rice, WR - San Francisco ("The Sporting News")

1998
• Terrell Davis, RB - Denver (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, "The Sporting News")
• Randall Cunningham, QB - Minnesota (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

http://football.about.com/od/nflhistory/l/bl_awardsmvp.htm

The NFL began awarding the Joe F. Carr Trophy (Carr was league president from 1921-39) to the league's most valuable player in 1938, and continued to do so until 1946. Since that time, the NFL's Most Valuable Players and Players of the Year have been named by a variety of sources including some of the top football publications.

The principle organizations presenting MVP awards over the years include the United Press, the Associated Press, the Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, and the Pro Football Writers Association of America. Magazines such as "Pro Football Weekly" and "The Sporting News" have also presented their own awards for a number of years.

 

[TexansCanes]

i wouldn't try to compare leak with young at all. leak is a way better thrower but young is a way better runner. leak isn't a run first player and is always looking to throw the ball down the field when he is scrambling. leak's throw motion is amazing, every single one of his throws is a perfect spiral. right now if i was an nfl gm i would take leak before young. once again i will say that young is one of the best college qbs but isn't ready to be in the nfl.

also randall hasn't won 3 mvps, it was 2. i can see we looked at different lists.
http://www.win-football.de/html/nfl_mvps.html

 

[Huge]

You listed '90 twice. But I think I see what you mean. I just don't give much weight to the "Maxwell Club of Philadelphia" where two of his "MVPs" have come from.

And I also agree with the comparison to Young/Cunningham.

Another list of past MVPs...

 

[Panther5407]

Dont you think that having a RB named Cedric Benson on your team had anything to do with that. When was the last time you heard someone say Courtney Lewis was a 1st rounder. Not to mention that they run so many QB sneaks and draws that they take away from his natural play making ability, hes gonna run the ball sometimes anyway, so why not drop him back and give him some WRs to look at? Thats another reason his passing game is so lacking, the OC or Mack Brown would call for him to throw 1 out of every 6 or 7 plays. H

I'm talking about what they are able to do when the coach gives them the ball and tells them to go out and throw. Vince threw 40 times in the game I posted, and 40 is alot of attempts. I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's just not a great passer and isn't one of the top 5 or maybe even top ten QBs in college football. He makes plays, but mainly with his legs, not his arm.

 

[Vinny]

You listed '90 twice.

Geez. I should wear my contacts more often. I went back and fixed it.

 

[Huge]

I'm talking about what they are able to do when the coach gives them the ball and tells them to go out and throw. Vince threw 40 times in the game I posted, and 40 is alot of attempts. I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's just not a great passer and isn't one of the top 5 or maybe even top ten QBs in college football. He makes plays, but mainly with his legs, not his arm.

Yeah but in his other 200+ yard games he only had 25 attempts (213 yards vs Tech '03) and 21 attempts (278 yards vs Oklahoma State '04).

Like I said...he can throw from time to time but it's certainly not his strength.

But he is one of the top 10 QBs in COLLEGE football because the role of the QB in college is much different than that of the NFL. Eric Crouch was a tremendous COLLEGE QB.

 

[Panther5407]

Yeah but in his other 200+ yard games he only had 25 attempts (213 yards vs Tech '03) and 21 attempts (278 yards vs Oklahoma State '04).

Like I said...he can throw from time to time but it's certainly not his strength.

But he is one of the top 10 QBs in COLLEGE football because the role of the QB in college is much different than that of the NFL. Eric Crouch was a tremendous COLLEGE QB.

I agree with the point that he can throw, I've said he has a gun but if he had better accuracy, he would be unstopable, just thats the one real weak spot outside of deciscion making (18 td passes, 18 ints i believe). Even though I'm an aggie, I can reconize and admitt that other teams do have great talents, and VY is talented. I just can't think of a time he took over a game with his arm, I know he can with his leg.

 

[Huge]

Thing is, when has it been required that take over a game with his arm? It's a general rule in football...if you don't have to throw the ball...don't.

He's 17-2 as a starter. I can't recall too many games where his arm was called for duty. Maybe the Kansas game when he had 40 attempts but that might be an example of his arm taking over (sans the 4th and 18 he picked up with his legs).

 

[gg no re]

There were the Oklahoma games where the run game was absolutely shut down, and the passing game did not make a big impact. This, the same OU that Reggie McNeal and Matt Leinhart owned through the air.

VY is one giant freak. Maybe if Mack Brown wasn't such a moron in terms of QB management [c'mon, Chris Simms over Major Applewhite?!!], Vince would be a passing beast.

 

[TexansCanes]

Maybe this year. Last year he wasn't even in the top 3 in the Big 12.

it depends, i would take him ahead of smith and maybe mcneil. so that means that white is only ahead of him. i always thought that a qb was suppose to win the game any means neccesary. a ut fan can check me on this, but he has lost 4 games over the last two years (2 ou, wsu, ark), plus he split time with mock. that is a very good record. as much as i dislike ut and young as a throwing qb, i still wouldn't mind him at lsu, the guy can make plays, but we got rp so its ok.

Yeah, Mack knows alot about QBs. If you actually watched VY in any football games besides the bowl game this year, you would know why people say he isn't accurate. Reggie McNeal is light years ahead of him at this point in their careers.

besides the bowl game, he didn't do anything throwing the ball down field that game. the only time he tried he throw an int to prescott burgess. he did very well on the short passes, but you expect that from your qb.

 

[Rovator]

Just because you can throw a ball 60-70 yards doesn't mean you have good velocity when you are trying to throw an accurate pass on a 15 yard route. Young floats a lot of those passes that he's trying to throw accurately, which leads to a lot of his interceptions.

It's like if you're trying to throw a football at a target 20 yards away. If you throw as hard as you can, you'll be less accurate, so you let up on some of the velocity to add accuracy.

 

[Wolf]

Just because you can throw a ball 60-70 yards doesn't mean you have good velocity when you are trying to throw an accurate pass on a 15 yard route. Young floats a lot of those passes that he's trying to throw accurately, which leads to a lot of his interceptions.

It's like if you're trying to throw a football at a target 20 yards away. If you throw as hard as you can, you'll be less accurate, so you let up on some of the velocity to add accuracy.

funny you mention that.. That is what I thought about Chris Simms.. He was acurate but, to me seemed to lob the ball to receivers iinstead of drilling it in there at times.

 

[Huge]

There were the Oklahoma games where the run game was absolutely shut down, and the passing game did not make a big impact. This, the same OU that Reggie McNeal and Matt Leinhart owned through the air.

So if you planted McNeal or Leinart into Texas' starting QB position, they would've torched OU's defense? Or do you think Greg Davis' offensive schemes have something to do with that?

VY is one giant freak. Maybe if Mack Brown wasn't such a moron in terms of QB management [c'mon, Chris Simms over Major Applewhite?!!], Vince would be a passing beast.

Don't get me started on Simms/Applewhite.

Maybe this year. Last year he wasn't even in the top 3 in the Big 12.

Really? Pull up the stat that shows how many points Young led Texas to then compare that to the other QBs in across the country. And in college football, that's what it's all about. How pretty you throw is completely irrelevant. It's the same lame *** argument that those who were saying Eric Crouch didn't deserve the Heisman because his passing stats didn't add up. People can't seem to differentiate between the two position (college QB/NFL QB).

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Bottom line is Vince Young has two more years left . How many schools would like to have Vince Young ? Its to early to worry if he is a pro QB , instead enjoy him for the next two years .

 

[gg no re]

So if you planted McNeal or Leinart into Texas' starting QB position, they would've torched OU's defense? Or do you think Greg Davis' offensive schemes have something to do with that?

Like I said, Mack Brown and his staff cannot teach QBs very well... VY needs to be taught accuracy, but with Brown changing the offense to suit the athleticism of Young instead of actually working on his mechanics, he ain't improving.

Heck, he had Major Applewhite as graduate assistant.... put that guy to work!

Don't get me started on Simms/Applewhite.

What's there not to see?

You tell me who is winless against Oklahoma, and who owned Oklahoma?

 

[Huge]

Like I said, Mack Brown and his staff cannot teach QBs very well... VY needs to be taught accuracy, but with Brown changing the offense to suit the athleticism of Young instead of actually working on his mechanics, he ain't improving.

Heck, he had Major Applewhite as graduate assistant.... put that guy to work!

You're under the impression they haven't been working on his mechanics?

What's there not to see?

You tell me who is winless against Oklahoma, and who owned Oklahoma?

"Owned" Oklahoma? Me thinks you're not too caught up on the recent history of Texas vs Oklahoma. The last Texas QB to "own" Oklahoma was Peter Gardere and he hasn't played for quite some time.

Major was not a better QB than Simms. He was just better at getting more out of his talent which made him the underdog story that everybody wanted to root for.

 

[wags]

The last Texas QB to "own" Oklahoma was Peter Gardere and he hasn't played for quite some time

And wasn't he drafted as a punter. eek:

 

[gg no re]

You're under the impression they haven't been working on his mechanics?

C'mon, they didn't change Vince Young to make him better, they changed the offense so they didn't have to bother with it.

I mean, if VY is restricted to basic short-distance dump off passes to his TEs, he should be godly by now in terms of short distance accuracy. Given that he passes out of playaction and bootlegs, where he gets a lot of open looks, there are two people to blame for VY's lack of accuracy.

"Owned" Oklahoma? Me thinks you're not too caught up on the recent history of Texas vs Oklahoma. The last Texas QB to "own" Oklahoma was Peter Gardere and he hasn't played for quite some time.

If you recall, OU has owned UT for the last 4-5 years. Who were the starting QBs then? Chris Simms, Chance Mock, and Vince Young.

If you extend it by two-three years, you will see a Major Applewhite who helped destroy OU in all his starts.

That said, Mack Brown is stupid when it comes to QBs and OU.

 

[Huge]

C'mon, they didn't change Vince Young to make him better, they changed the offense so they didn't have to bother with it.

I mean, if VY is restricted to basic short-distance dump off passes to his TEs, he should be godly by now in terms of short distance accuracy. Given that he passes out of playaction and bootlegs, where he gets a lot of open looks, there are two people to blame for VY's lack of accuracy.

I see. So you're under the impression that it would be better to change Vince to fit the offense instead of the other way around.

In reality, they have been working on his mechanics. This is not earth shattering news. Problem is, he still has a long way to go so the efforts aren't seen yet. Compounding this problem is he has Greg Davis as his coach.

If you recall, OU has owned UT for the last 4-5 years. Who were the starting QBs then? Chris Simms, Chance Mock, and Vince Young.

If you extend it by two-three years, you will see a Major Applewhite who helped destroy OU in all his starts.

That said, Mack Brown is stupid when it comes to QBs and OU.

Actually Major was the losing QB when the streak began.

Major was the starter in '98 when Texas won 34-3. OU was 5-6 that year.
Major was the starter in '99 when Texas won 38-28. OU was 7-4 that year.
Major was the starter in '00 when OU won 63-14. OU was 13-0 that year.

See the difference? This would be like me pointing out how Major went winless against Kansas State (and had some really terrible games in the process) while Simms was undefeated against the Wildcats.

 

[gg no re]

In reality, they have been working on his mechanics. This is not earth shattering news. Problem is, he still has a long way to go so the efforts aren't seen yet. Compounding this problem is he has Greg Davis as his coach.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say here. Could just nod your head in agreement that the coaching staff is not doing VY any favors.

Actually Major was the losing QB when the streak began.

Right, Major still beat OU more times than Simms though, and Kansas State was really nothing after Bishop left, which was around the time Major left.

 

[Wolf]

not sure about that .. Kansas state went to bcs in 2004 after beating Oklahoma.. say what you want but they got to a big game

 

[Huge]

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say here. Could just nod your head in agreement that the coaching staff is not doing VY any favors.

No...you said they've been working on his mechanics. See?

Like I said, Mack Brown and his staff cannot teach QBs very well... VY needs to be taught accuracy, but with Brown changing the offense to suit the athleticism of Young instead of actually working on his mechanics, he ain't improving.

Now, nod your head in agreement that you said they haven't been working on his mechanics (which in reality, they have). In that sense, they have been "doing him favors" by trying to help. They just don't have the capability (IE: Greg Davis is not a good QB coach).

Right, Major still beat OU more times than Simms though, and Kansas State was really nothing after Bishop left, which was around the time Major left.

So it's okay for Major to go 0-fer against KSU because they were good but not okay for Simms to go 0-fer against OU when they were good? That makes a ton of sense.