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Von Miller, Justin Houston or Brandon Harris?

PHAROAH said:
Alright guys it's time to start shifting our focus away from the 2010 season and now it's time to focus on what to do with our 1st round pick. I have been review film and the question that I have for everyone is if OLB - Von Miller isn't available at #11 who would be your choice? I was watching film on prospects and there are two players that most scouts are starting to move up the 1st round board and they are OLB - Justin Houston {UGA} & CB - Brandon Harris {UM}. I love all 3 prospects but we can only draft one of them and they are all at a position of need please add your thoughts. Justin Houston reminds me of Demarcus Ware & Von Miller is just a Beast and plays a lot like Clay Matthews up in Green Bay and CB - Brandon Harris can flat out cover, I know that this depends on what we do in free agency but give me your thoughts.



Von Millier: 6'3 240 40: 4.60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoQII6vrPHE


Justin Houston: 6'3" 260 40: 4.75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR0L2RVId90



Brandon Harris: 5'11 195 40: 4.45


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0yjcu9CJvc

:brando:
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Von Miller, really needs a better highlight reel. All I see is a guy that over persues the QB and lets him run for first downs.
 
I'm not sure why Justin Houston is ranked lower than both Akem Ayers & Aldon Smith on most mocks I've seen ? He looks like an intense, fiery competitor who's performance on tape vs a higher level of competition (SEC) is superior to either of the other two ?
 
IDEXAN said:
I'm not sure why Justin Houston is ranked lower than both Akem Ayers & Aldon Smith on most mocks I've seen ? He looks like an intense, fiery competitor who's performance on tape vs a higher level of competition (SEC) is superior to either of the other two ?
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And, he played as a 3-4 OLB right now. Smith and Ayers are 4-3 DEs projected to be 3-4 OLBs.
 
Doppelganger said:
And, he played as a 3-4 OLB right now. Smith and Ayers are 4-3 DEs projected to be 3-4 OLBs.
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Right though I think perhaps Ayers was actually a LB while Smith was a DE ?
But your point is well made, i.e., neither played in a 3-4 while Houston not only played that defensive alignment but played in it @ OLB, one of our primary needs in Wade's new 3-4. It's a postion that is vital to the success of the 3-4.
 
PHAROAH said:
.... if OLB - Von Miller isn't available at #11 who would be your choice?

Justin Houston reminds me of Demarcus Ware & Von Miller is just a Beast and plays a lot like Clay Matthews up in Green Bay...
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I'm just now starting to look at this years draft prospects. I'm just not into college football. I was under the impression that we (Texans' fans) were interested in Von Miller to be "our" Demarcus Ware. Our pass rush specialist, our 3-4 OLB rush LB..... the guy on the weak side.

Comparisons to Clay Matthews seem to be more apt.... but from what I've seen so far..... not really. & I'm looking at the highlights.... which should be pretty favorable.

Here is a highlight of Von Miller during the UT game. Is this indicative of his play? Was he just having a bad game? Is this what has you guys excited about him?

Just looking at what I've seen so far, I'm not impressed.
 
PHAROAH said:
I was watching film on prospects and there are two players that most scouts are starting to move up the 1st round board and they are OLB - Justin Houston {UGA}


Justin Houston: 6'3" 260 40: 4.75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR0L2RVId90
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Again, I know it's just highlights, but this guy looks slow & lacks explosiveness.

We're talking about using the #11 overall on this guy? or are we talking about trading back to the late first?
 
PHAROAH said:
Brandon Harris: 5'11 195 40: 4.45


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0yjcu9CJvc

:brando:
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I like this guy. He looks bigger than 5' 11" 195.... he looked fast enough to cover most of those guys, good instincts & technique.....

I would however like a guy who is flat out fast that can cover.

This guy fits what the Texans obviously want in a CB (other than definite cover skills... that's just a bonus) so who knows, maybe this is the guy their looking at.
 
steelbtexan said:
I've got a feeling that Pollard isn't long for Houston.

The S have to be able to cover in Phillips 3-4 scheme. That's not Pollard's strong suit.
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I think this is being overplayed. Pollard looked pretty good in coverage in 2009, bad in 2010. I think when we lose, we focus on every mistake. When we are winning, when we're making plays... not so much.

Last year I think the coaches got us away from what we did best (better), playing fast & making things happen.

Wade also likes to take a LB off the field & bring in a CB in his nickel packages. Let's say we do take Miller & he plays SOLB..... nickel package, he comes off the field & Quin comes off the bench... or KJac. We've still got 4 DBs on the field.... 3 CBs + FS & Pollard is a Hybrid SS/LB

I like that combination.

Let's say we draft Amukamarah (which moves either Quin or KJac to the nickle). We would never have to come out of our "nickle" package. Pollard is still the hybrid SS/LB who plays the run better than the pass (just like an OLB in the 3-4). Quin & KJac are also pretty good against the run, they're CB/FS hybrids.

Heck, we could move either KJac or Quin to FS & Allen could be our #2 CB or the nickel.
 
HOU-TEX said:
That very well may be true, but I went and took a gander at the top 10 teams and came away thinking he could easily fall. Then again, it only takes 1 to fall in love with him.

Carolina- They're in need of a QB and everything else. I think they're a 4-3 anyway.
Denver- Moving back to a 4-3, I think.
Buffalo- They need a QB among other things, but maybe
Cincinnati- They're a 4-3
Arizona- They need a QB, Oline, LBs, but maybe
Cleveland- I think they're going to a 4-3 too. If not, maybe here.
San Francisco- They need a QB
Tennessee- They need a QB, Dline and 4-3 LBs
Dallas- Maybe, but they have Ware and Spencer
Washington- Who friggin knows what the skins do, but they have Orakpo

So, in the end, I didn't prove a damn thing. Other than there are more teams that need a QB than I thought.
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From watching Von Miller, IMO he's a 4-3 Will.

Are there any top 10 QBs in this draft?
 
thunderkyss said:
From watching Von Miller, IMO he's a 4-3 Will.

Are there any top 10 QBs in this draft?
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Did you watch the senior bowl? Looks like Miller takes coaching very well. He was explosive and disruptive.
 
JB said:
Did you watch the senior bowl? Looks like Miller takes coaching very well. He was explosive and disruptive.
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Von Miller is a guy that if he slips to 11 , you take and find a place for him . Did anyone watch A&M play OU ? Miller is a game changer with great instincts and nummbers to prove it .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Von Miller is a guy that if he slips to 11 , you take and find a place for him . Did anyone watch A&M play OU ? Miller is a game changer with great instincts and nummbers to prove it .
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Yeah, I feel a lot better about him this morning than I did yesterday. I thought he was coached up and played with great instincts yesterday. Not just a one trick pony.
 
JB said:
Yeah, I feel a lot better about him this morning than I did yesterday. I thought he was coached up and played with great instincts yesterday. Not just a one trick pony.
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I'll be curious to see what he runs but he plays fast .

Smith , Quinn , and Houston may have more upside as a 3-4 backer but Miller is a much safer pick . Now if Miller is gone and I'm not giddy over anyone else , do I have the guts to take Taylor and pick up Reed or Acho in the 3rd ? Think Green Bay picking Raji then trading up and taking Mathews .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I'll be curious to see what he runs but he plays fast .

Smith , Quinn , and Houston may have more upside as a 3-4 backer but Miller is a much safer pick . Now if Miller is gone and I'm not giddy over anyone else , do I have the guts to take Taylor and pick up Reed or Acho in the 3rd ? Think Green Bay picking Raji then trading up and taking Mathews .
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Do you think Taylor goes in the first?
 
I would say Miller is more or a risky pick and could end up like Maybin or be amazing at OLB. We dont need any more youth in the secondary and it would be better to sign a CB during free agency. I like Houston and think he will be the best person to draft if available. Miller has speed but takes himself out of the play sometimes.
 
I like Miller & Houston. But I have to ask myself, would it be a better allocation of resources to find a vet ILB and have Cushing on the strongside and Barwin on the weakside? Then they could look at an edge rusher like Brooks Reed or Jeremy Beal in the 3rd. I didn't care for Cushing's tentativeness at MLB last season. He looked a lot more like Brian Cushing after moving back outside.

Hopefully, the QBs get hot by draft day and someone wants to sneak up ahead of Minnesota and take one. The Texans would be best served to move down, pick up additional picks (which they don't have), and take the best defensive player available. One player won't fix the Texans defense. And with the switch to the 3-4, they'll need depth at several positions.
 
Lucky said:
I like Miller & Houston. But I have to ask myself, would it be a better allocation of resources to find a vet ILB and have Cushing on the strongside and Barwin on the weakside? Then they could look at an edge rusher like Brooks Reed or Jeremy Beal in the 3rd. I didn't care for Cushing's tentativeness at MLB last season. He looked a lot more like Brian Cushing after moving back outside.

Hopefully, the QBs get hot by draft day and someone wants to sneak up ahead of Minnesota and take one. The Texans would be best served to move down, pick up additional picks (which they don't have), and take the best defensive player available. One player won't fix the Texans defense. And with the switch to the 3-4, they'll need depth at several positions.
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I was kinda thinking this also. Cushing has never played ILB in his life. He has played SLB in a 3-4 as well as WLB. While at USC.

I'm taking this into account when I do my post Sr.Bowl Mock draft. That will be coming out soon.
 
I count 3 teams among the top 5 in the Draft who operate out of the 3-4, and therefor I don't think Miller lasts beyond the 5th pick in the first round.
I watched him Saturday on TV, and he was very impressive as an OLB in the 4-3, which does not give him the ability to showcase his primary skill as an edge rusher in the 3-4 though he did rush the QB a couple times at a DE.
He's extremely quick and also fast and appeared to play with great intensity.
And I'm not concerned about his 40 time in Indy, though I wouldnt be surprised if its fast, maybe very fast. We learned back when Terrell Suggs came out 6 or 7 years and failed to break 4.7 that fast 40 times are unnecessary for a player to be a superior edge rusher.
 
40 times aren't everything.

Which is why I think Houston and Smith will be impact OLB's in the 3-4.
 
My major concern with Von Miller is his size. He's light for a 3-4 edge rusher and his frame looks maxed out. When an NFL OT gets their hands on Miller, it's over. It's pretty rare for a 3-4 OLB to get by on speed alone. Derrick Thomas did it. I can't think of many others.
 
Lucky said:
My major concern with Von Miller is his size. He's light for a 3-4 edge rusher and his frame looks maxed out. When an NFL OT gets their hands on Miller, it's over. It's pretty rare for a 3-4 OLB to get by on speed alone. Derrick Thomas did it. I can't think of many others.
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Lanze Zeirlien (1560 Radio) reported from the Senior Bowl this past week that he talked with several NFL persons and none had any concerns about Millers size, and Miller does have very well developed thighs with an impressive bubble and there's virtually no body-fat on his physique.
 
Maddict5 said:
alot of ppl think he plays around 230 or maybe even less. i agree that he scares me a bit aswell. his game is all about speed. fans will argue he compares to clay but he could just as easily be another maybin or the numerous other bust who just have speed and no moves. plus hes hasnt played 3-4 olb. big risk imo

dont know much about houston but his basement seems on another level to von's.. plus lets not forget his ceiling is a great edge rusher also. imo it seems a pretty easy decision between those two
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Wasn't Miller defensive MVP of the game and a Butkus award winner? Didn't he lead the NCAA in sacks last year? Sounds like a risk to me....

He is a player on the NCAA level and on to the next level. He is not a gamble or a project player.
 
JimBaker488 said:
Lanze Zeirlien (1560 Radio) reported from the Senior Bowl this past week that he talked with several NFL persons and none had any concerns about Millers size...
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I never said that Miller couldn't play in the NFL or that he wasn't a blue chip athlete. Just that few NFL 3-4 OLB are his size. And that successful pass rushers who rely strictly on speed are pretty rare. It could be that his best position in the league is a 4-3 Will linebacker.
 
Lucky said:
I never said that Miller couldn't play in the NFL or that he wasn't a blue chip athlete. Just that few NFL 3-4 OLB are his size. And that successful pass rushers who rely strictly on speed are pretty rare. It could be that his best position in the league is a 4-3 Will linebacker.
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Nagative Ghost Rider...OLB in 3-4 scheme for Miller. He can play anything because he is an Athlete. Isn't James Harrison 5'11" and 230-240?
 
Texaninlild said:
Wasn't Miller defensive MVP of the game and a Butkus award winner? Didn't he lead the NCAA in sacks last year? Sounds like a risk to me....

He is a player on the NCAA level and on to the next level. He is not a gamble or a project player.
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Every concern about Miller that has been posted in this thread is legit. He is undersized when you compare him to the guys in the NFL who play his position. That's a fact.

A lot of his game is based on speed. That's not necessarily a fact, but when you watch him on tape you can see it. He is not a one trick pony, but you are lying to yourself if you don't think that he relies a lot on his speed to make plays.

And statistical production in college does not mean that a guy will succeed in the NFL. Look at the OLB from Nevada for example. One of the greatest players in his conference's history based on stats. Very comparable career stats to Von Miller. So that means you hold him in the same regardas you hold Miller, right? What about past Heisman winners? Were they all great in the NFL?

When it comes down to millions and millions of dollars every first round pick is a gamble. I wouldn't call Miller a project. I think it is pretty clear what position he plays and that he has the required skills. But based on the above, yes, he is a gamble.

And just so nobody thinks I have a bias against him, I do think he will be a very good NFL player and I would snatch him up at #11, no problem. But that doesn't mean that there cannot be any arguments against him. There are valid reasons.
 
I'm betting Von Miller is going to be one of the most closely followed prospects @ the Combine. Raising these concerns now will only help his stock because it gives him time to focus & address those concerns. I really expect him to add 5 lbs & run a sub 4.5 forty. He shows explosiveness so he should broad & vertical jump top of his position. So I'm not worried as much about his measure-ables but how does he play the game on film. Along with his footwork I want to see exactly how he uses those long arms to shed & disengage blockers to the QB. This maybe one secret to why he becomes an elite pass rusher @ the next level.
 
Lucky said:
I never said that Miller couldn't play in the NFL or that he wasn't a blue chip athlete. Just that few NFL 3-4 OLB are his size. And that successful pass rushers who rely strictly on speed are pretty rare. It could be that his best position in the league is a 4-3 Will linebacker.
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Agree, if we were playing a 4-3, he'd replace Diles or Sharpton, or whoever our Wil is.
 
Lucky said:
I never said that Miller couldn't play in the NFL or that he wasn't a blue chip athlete. Just that few NFL 3-4 OLB are his size. And that successful pass rushers who rely strictly on speed are pretty rare. It could be that his best position in the league is a 4-3 Will linebacker.
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In part I hear you, but even though his size might be an issue once he hits the field in the NFL I don't think it's going to prevent him from being drafted very high, certainly higher than the 11th pick in the first round. And part of that is the "it only takes one team" reality of paying a huge premium for a player in todays NFL Drafts, even if the pick is risky. And after QBs, there's probably no position/skill that teams are willing to take a bigger chance on than pass rushers with big upsides like Miller.
 
The Texans biggest need is a space eating DT period. Anyone ever wonder what makes those LB's so effective on the Ravens and the Steelers in the 3-4 besides having great LB's? Casey Hampton and Ngata (Can't spell the Samoan guy's name). The Texans still have no pass rush and are just terrible in the trenches. Sure, they've used early picks on the D line in the past, but they've swung and missed and they still have those needs. They need to keep picking those guys until they find that real deal DT.

As far as LB's go the Texans have some pretty good LB's for the 3-4 already to what they could wait a year. Cushing should be really good for the 3-4 and Barwin is probably going to thrive in it along with Demeco and Diles. They need a DT much more.
 
Texecutioner said:
Sure, they've used early picks on the D line in the past, but they've swung and missed and they still have those needs. They need to keep picking those guys until they find that real deal DT.
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I agree with this. I know we drafted Amobi, Okam, & Mitchell in the last 5 years.

I wish we had gone after DTs the way we've gone after TEs. instead of waiting till after week 1 to fill the roster with cast-offs & never was.
 
JimBaker488 said:
In part I hear you, but even though his size might be an issue once he hits the field in the NFL I don't think it's going to prevent him from being drafted very high, certainly higher than the 11th pick in the first round.
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I don't think the question so much is will Miller be drafted high, or that Miller will find success. More so, what is the best fit for Von in the NFL.
 
The Texans may have to move up to get miller or we need to hope that 2 qb's sneak into the top 10 picks and that would make it better for the texans to have a shot at Von.
 
PHAROAH said:
The Texans may have to move up to get miller or we need to hope that 2 qb's sneak into the top 10 picks and that would make it better for the texans to have a shot at Von.
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Should we do this, because he is that calibre of an athlete?

or

Because he's from A&M?

The top 10 appears to be full of Defensive talent that could help this team. Why should we trade up for this one?
 
OLBs are hard to grade IMO as many just don't pan out. For the few DeMarcus Ware's of the world, there are a whole lot of Aaron Maybin's and Vernon Gohlston's.
 
Texan4Ever said:
OLBs are hard to grade IMO as many just don't pan out. For the few DeMarcus Ware's of the world, there are a whole lot of Aaron Maybin's and Vernon Gohlston's.
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It's because most NFL 3-4 OLBs in college are DEs in 4-3, and therefor talent evaluators are left to "project" their aptitide and performance capabilities for the next level at their new an untested postions. Lot of uncertainty in those scenarios.
 
JimBaker488 said:
It's because most NFL 3-4 OLBs in college are DEs in 4-3, and therefor talent evaluators are left to "project" their aptitide and performance capabilities for the next level at their new an untested postions. Lot of uncertainty in those scenarios.
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You're right! Sometimes I wonder if its even worth the risk taking a college DE and converting him into a 3-4 OLB. Several UDFA's have become successful 3-4 OLBs such as James Harrison as well as Cameron Wake so getting an UDFA and taking a gamble on him is better than taking a risk on a 1st rounder.
 
Just like any other position projects fluidley to next level. More than anything the system including personal & coaching more often than not dictate success rate, doesn't nessecarily mean the scout got it wrong or player was totaly invested in changes.
 
Texan4Ever said:
OLBs are hard to grade IMO as many just don't pan out. For the few DeMarcus Ware's of the world, there are a whole lot of Aaron Maybin's and Vernon Gohlston's.
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I think a big factor in the success of a 3-4 OLB, is the system they are in. Demarcus Ware ain't nothing like Clay Matthews.... both are successful, but they are used differently by their respective teams.
 
seen as we're talking about 4-3 de becoming 3-4 OLB.

aldon smith hasn't been mentioned much on these boards.
wondering what all you guys think about him?

supposedly is the best athlete in the draft.
a few mocks have us taking him as our 11th pick
 
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aussie_texan said:
seen as we're talking about 4-3 de becoming 3-4 OLB.

aldon smith hasn't been mentioned much on these boards.
wondering what all you guys think about him?

supposedly is the best athlete in the draft.
a few mocks have us taking him as our 11th pick
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I see Jason Pierre-Paul in last years Draft with this guy ?
Classic big upside, but also big downside as he's an athletic freak, but
coming out though leaving 2 years of eligibility on the table so limited tape.
But hey, Matthews only had one big year. And Smith played 4-3 DE at Mizzou
with the kinda frame where he could add lots of weight, but also looks to have potential as a stud 3-4 OLB. Big question is what does Wade think about him ?
 
aussie_texan said:
seen as we're talking about 4-3 de becoming 3-4 OLB.

aldon smith hasn't been mentioned much on these boards.wondering what all you guys think about him?

supposedly is the best athlete in the draft.
a few mocks have us taking him as our 11th pick
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I believe steelb has brought Aldon Smith up early and often. Prompted me to YouTube him and he looked good. Thank that for what it's worth. ;^)
 
One of the big things I like about Justin Houston beyond the obvious is that you don't have to "project" him to 34 OLB. He has already played there and produced.
 
bah007 said:
One of the big things I like about Justin Houston beyond the obvious is that you don't have to "project" him to 34 OLB. He has already played there and produced.
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If we traded down to around 18-20 pick Justin Houston and get an extra 2nd round pick in the process it would restore some of the little faith that I have left in Rick Smith. A trade like that is hard to pull of though since finding a trade partner is difficult at best. Probably just wishful thinking.
 
bah007 said:
One of the big things I like about Justin Houston beyond the obvious is that you don't have to "project" him to 34 OLB. He has already played there and produced.
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i do as well, i liked him all of this past season and really jumped on his bandwagon when the hiring of wade was official. he will be a beast in the NFL. barring anything unforeseen, i'm confident that this time next week talk about him at 11 will be the hottest discussion here.
 
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