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Vince young
- Thread starter College Texan
- Start date
tulexan
Hall of Fame
Actually you can because if you turn the ball over a lot, that is a problem. I have watched Vince Young play a lot and he is impressive, but he also makes a lot of dumb mistakes. Not as much as he used to, but he is still a work in progress at the position. He still tends to hold the ball around his hips instead of around his ears. He still throws the occasional unnecessary looping soft rainbow pass that would be an interception in the NFL. And he still fails to make the pass when there is someone wide open. That is why I think that he needs one more year at Texas. With one more year at school he will turn into a much better pro much sooner. That is all that I am trying to say. I am not trying to dog him and say that he is garbage and will never be a good pro. I am just saying that he needs more time.
If Vince Young really wants to be a NFL QB, he needs to get to the league ASAP. He's gone as far as UT coaching can take him. Vince needs pro coaching and lots of it. He's not close to being able to execute an NFL offense.tulexan said:
Personally, I think Young is years away from becoming a starting NFL QB. I do believe he could be a revolutionary player in a slash role (QB/RB/WR), right out of the box. But, that's just me. If Vince wants to win the heisman...stay in school. If he wants to be a NFL QB, leave after this season.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
You just described Steve McNair coming out of Alcorn St. The Oilers drafted him and coached him up for two years before turning over the offense to him. He was extremely raw and they didn't run much more than a playground offense with McNair running around making plays at Alcorn St.Lucky said:
I agree and it took a couple years of on the field experience, and a couple of different OCs, before the light bulb turned on for Steve. That's what it would probably take for Vince, and you're paying the guy an 8 figure bonus to sit and learn. Whereas if he lined up anywhere and everywhere on offense, that team would see the benifits (and the TDs) right away.Vinny said:
Kordell was a much better slash than QB. And Vince would be more extraordinary because of his size and physicality.
Huge
All Pro
It's not that difficult to be the consensus top RB when your competition is Duece McCallister, Michael Bennett and Lamont Jordan. All fine players but none of them are in the class of Tomlinson or Bush.tulexan said:
Tomlinson also didn't have/get to split carries with a talent like Lendale White or play with a Heisman QB as well as having two WRs that could top the 1,000 yard mark this season. So it's bad that he hasn't had the big number games like Tomlinson did?
And why does Bush need to add 20 lbs? Look up Warrick Dunn's current standing in the league rushing leaders then check his weight. You know who leads the league in attempts? Willis McGahee. He's averaging just over 23 carries a game. So why does Bush need to carry the ball 20-30 times a game?
Bringing up that Vince isn't in the top 30 in passing yards while leaving out the fact he plays on the #3 rushing offense is pretty short sighted. Have you seen Troy Aikman's career stats? They're not that impressive. But I bet most would consider him to be in the top 20 QBs to ever play the game. Why were his stats not that impressive? Because Emmitt Smith's were.
Brad Smith - 156 attempts, 903 yards (5.79 avg.), 9 TDs
Vince Young - 103 attempts, 725 yards (7.04 avg.), 8 TDs
But Vince isn't the 'top running QB' because Smith has more yards. You betcha. And shame on Vince for being just the 7th rated passer in college (presently) and 'only' being the 2nd highest rushing QB.
The other top two running QBs (Reggie McNeal and Brad Smith) both rank 48th and 83rd in passing efficiency.
I don't disagree with this. Just everything else you said.tulexan said:
S
SESupergenius
Guest
I had wished that Carr would be a backup when he initially got here and they put a good emphasis on him learning the position and speed of the game before he took one snap. That being said, I don't have the confidence in this coaching staff to bring Young or anyone else along if Carr were somehow out of the picture. I'd rather have a pocket passer than a hybrid. Young is exciting, but the on the edge of your seat if he's going to get nailed kind of exciting.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I love watching Vince play, but cringe when he feels the pressue and has that ball wavering in the air. I also do not like his release and the way he flicks the ball. However, his passing is beginning to morph into something much better. I never thought of him as a viable NFL QB. But I am beginning to think with one more year at UT and a year or two with the clipboard he will be able to man his own team. If his passing game continues to progress, we will be looking at something no one has ever seen before.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I don't know why you cringe when he hits his target on a regular basis. I saw a guy with a beautiful release last night in Marcus Vick throw horrible passes to wide open WR's throwing passes only Yao Ming could dream of catching over and over but everyone thinks that Vick is such a better passer than Young...I guess because of the way Young "flicks" the ball for 40 yards as we cringe while the ball bounces off his WR's hands.
texplayer2
Waterboy
tulexan said:
Sc has beaten Auburn and Virginia Tech within their 30+ winning streak. I don't think the conference stops talent. Auburn went undefeated last year and VT was undefeated this year. Neither could say that the year they played USC and it wasn't because of their mighty conferences. It happened at the hands of the Pac-10 leader. The style of play differs a cross the country, and there are as many philosophies on what is the best way to play football, but talent wins.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Vinny said:
Probably need to elaborate. When the pocket collapses Vince sometimes tries to salvage the play with the pass rather than with the run. It is at these times where the ball is very vulnerable. Vince has a bad habit that when he is in the grasp he exposes the ball. This is where I cringe.
Vince in my opinion is getting better every game, especially his passing game.
Napa Auto Parts
Veteran
I really hope this cat comes out this year i dont see how the texans could pass him up with the 1st overall pick i used to be want Matt ******** but i rather have Vince young leading this team.
BattleRedRaider
Rookie
Vince Young? Please, there are better choices in the draft. We just extended Carr's contract, so he isn't going anywhere. Even if we draft VY, he looks like he'll be knocked out after one hit in the NFL. He'll take one hit and be out for the year. He would probably be converted to WR, and even then, I still wouldn't want him. I'd rather have Reggie Bush; the guy makes plays at will. Yeah, we got DD and VM, but hell, I don't want to see Reggie Bush becoming a superstar on another team when we had the chance. Or simply, draft a much-needed OL first. VY can go to some other team.
BattleRedRaider said:
I was around when folks thought McNair wasn't good enough and needed about five years of bench experience behind any quarterback, so the Vince Young comments don't surprise me the least bit. IMO, Young is a play maker, and will do whatever it takes to make something happen for his team. The question I have, is what team will see that as an asset, and choose accordingly.
BattleRedRaider
Rookie
I don't expect anyone to be surprised. We just don't need Vince Young. We need others. Oh sure, people said that about McNair, but Young is no McNair. Young wouldn't play with the injuries McNair has sustained over the years.
BattleRedRaider
Rookie
Either he's really good at avoiding hits, or he's just afraid of being hit. I'm not saying either one yet. Or maybe it's both.
BattleRedRaider
Rookie
Yeah, I've watched him play. I was forced to watch him play against my Red Raiders. I will actually admit he's got good skills, but I don't know, the Texans don't need him.
MorKnolle
All Pro
Yes Young is big for a QB and pretty fast, but WE DON'T NEED A QB. That is the absolute last of our needs in the draft, and we especially don't need to spend another 1st round draft pick on a QB. That would be the most retarded draft decision our team has made yet, and we've made several in four years.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
He runs high because he is 6'5". He has enough body control to keep from those big hits though. Just because you are tall doesn't mean you can't be elusive. You can see that clearly in Vince Young. There hasn't been anyone like him to prove he can't cut it. Until he fails there is no one to point at and say he has a failed style.
He's not McNabb either. He is just pretty unique.
He's not McNabb either. He is just pretty unique.
Htown34s
Waterboy
I agree with Vinny. VY is the first VY. I've watch him here in Austin for years. The guy is simply amazing, and he has been getting better and better for the last year and a half. He amazes every single game. I've never seen anything like him.
It will be a shame if he doesn't get a least one Heisman, but man is he exciting to watch. I'm just soaking it all in...
It will be a shame if he doesn't get a least one Heisman, but man is he exciting to watch. I'm just soaking it all in...
Huge
All Pro
I agree with those that say the Texans don't need to draft Vince. I completely disagree with your reasoning though.
Doesn't have NFL breakaway speed? How many times have you seen Young get caught from behind?
Plays in the depleted Big 12? How effective was a legitimate defense (Ohio State) at stopping Young?
The Texans don't "need" Young but they could really use Reggie Bush. Yeah, you betcha. Because he'd make up for all the OL woes of this team.
Doesn't have NFL breakaway speed? How many times have you seen Young get caught from behind?
Plays in the depleted Big 12? How effective was a legitimate defense (Ohio State) at stopping Young?
The Texans don't "need" Young but they could really use Reggie Bush. Yeah, you betcha. Because he'd make up for all the OL woes of this team.
MorKnolle
All Pro
Huge said:
Vince Young is playing in college at the moment, he does not have the speed to break away from NFL defenses, that's why I said NFL breakaway speed. Michael Vick is the only QB in the NFL that is fast enough to not get caught from behind by NFL defenses, and Young is nowhere near as fast as Vick. That aside, we definitely have bigger holes to fill that drafting Reggie Bush, but if we can trade down a few spots to pick up an extra pick and Bush is still available, I'd have a hard time not drafting him because he does have undeniable palymaking skills, but I would likely move him to WR. That said, I still think the Texans have several offseason issues to deal with and QB and RB are right at the bottom of the list.
HomeBred_Texan
Veteran
He wont even be picked in the first round. He will not make it in the NFL as a QB or WR and we sure dont need him as a WR..Nawzer said:
MorKnolle
All Pro
beerlover said:Vince Young has breakaway speed in space which translates into the WR position. if Vince was coming out this year (I would put him in the same class with AJ) Vince would be #1 WR on the draft board
I hope you're not saying that Vince Young is as fast as Andre Johnson. Let's put it in terms of Madden ratings. Andre Johnson has 95 speed on that game, as does Michael Vick (maybe 94, I don't remember cause I haven't played it in a while). Vince Young will probably be somewhere in the range of 82-85 speed, good enough for second-fastest among QBs, but nothing special for a WR, nor is his catching ability likely anywhere near Andre's.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
MorKnolle said:
I put him in the same class of AJ as a game breaking WR, speed is not everything included in this package but if he does go to the combine I think that Vince can run a 4.4 maybe under? while AJ is about a 4.3-4.35. his size and athletic ability is what's intriqueing, I'm going to assume he has excellent hands based upon playing QB, his break away moves for his size are amazing. remember its just a projection based upon his skills, but I cannot think of a better WR prospect in the upcoming draft should he decide to turn pro.
MorKnolle
All Pro
beerlover said:
I still think VY would not be a great WR. Catching a ball is different from throwing a ball, and while he might be able to make the routine catches well trying to adjust to catching balls no matter where they're thrown and with people around you/hitting you is completely different, especially if he hasn't played WR before. I also don't know what his vertical jump is like, it's probably pretty good but nothing special. I doubt he would run under a 4.4, probably more like a 4.45 to 4.5. He would probably be similar to Matt Jones of Jacksonville only probably a little faster. Like I said, I think he can be a quality QB but it will take him a couple years to be a consistent starter, and it sounds like he wants to stay at QB. His match of size and speed would be a rarity among NFL QBs as most quick ones are much shorter. As for WRs, USC has two stud WRs (Steve Smith and Dwayne Jarrett), Santonio Holmes (Ohio St.) is definitely a top candidate just to name a few. I haven't followed college football as a whole very well this year so at the moment I don't have an extensive list of the elite WRs.
Huge
All Pro
Vince has played against players in college that are now in the NFL (Fabian Washington...top 3 fastest 40 in the last Combine is the first to come to mind) and he didn't have much trouble running past them.MorKnolle said:
And as fast as Vick is, he has been caught from behind before (as has Vince). But more times than not, even the fastest players get caught from behind when the defensive player has the angle. Ladanian Tomlinson was "run down" by a LBer earlier this season. And if you'll remember, LT put up a pretty eye popping 40 at his Combine/Pro Day. It's not always about the 40. If you put Vince 5 yards ahead of any NFL defender and they've got 60 yards to go, Vince is going to score. Anybody that's fast enough to catch him isn't going to be big enough to bring him down.
Everything else, we see eye to eye.
Htown34s
Waterboy
I've watched Vince develop over the last 3 years here in Austin. Every single game. Most of the home games in person. And let me tell all of you this right now:
Vince Young is THE MOST DOMINANT and EXCITING PLAYER I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE. He does unbelievable things every game. He does not get rattled no matter what is on the line. He is a leader. He has not had ONE bad or "off" game in over a year. He has learned how to take control of the team and will them to do what is needed. His has an incredible touch on his throws that Carr could use a little more of.
He is a beast of a player that is a hybrid mixture of Michael Vick's elusiveness, Roy William's size and speed, and Joe Montana's leadership.
Now, here is my take. His passing was pretty bad early on, but is has come a very long way in the past year. Even though he has the arm strength to throw 50 yards flat footed with ease, his accuracy needs to be developed more for the pros. His weakness is throwing a laser on slants to account for the quicker DB's in the NFL.
I think that he realizes this and intends to stay for his Senior year. If his passing continues to improve for another year he could possibly be the most amazing pro QB ever. We'll see. But he will be a QB in the NFL. Everyone needs to forget this WR talk.
Vince Young is THE MOST DOMINANT and EXCITING PLAYER I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE. He does unbelievable things every game. He does not get rattled no matter what is on the line. He is a leader. He has not had ONE bad or "off" game in over a year. He has learned how to take control of the team and will them to do what is needed. His has an incredible touch on his throws that Carr could use a little more of.
He is a beast of a player that is a hybrid mixture of Michael Vick's elusiveness, Roy William's size and speed, and Joe Montana's leadership.
Now, here is my take. His passing was pretty bad early on, but is has come a very long way in the past year. Even though he has the arm strength to throw 50 yards flat footed with ease, his accuracy needs to be developed more for the pros. His weakness is throwing a laser on slants to account for the quicker DB's in the NFL.
I think that he realizes this and intends to stay for his Senior year. If his passing continues to improve for another year he could possibly be the most amazing pro QB ever. We'll see. But he will be a QB in the NFL. Everyone needs to forget this WR talk.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
beerlover said:sorrynot going to happen when the majority of scouts think his natural position is WR in the NFL. for starters just ask John McClain
I would have agreed with you up to about 4 games ago, but this kid is really starting to mature as a signal caller and passer. He is in a zone right now and I do not see it going away.
I have no basis for this, but Vince will be back next year and I expect to see the same incremental growth we have seen his 20+ games.
What a homer post this is.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
THE NFL DRAFT said:
AHHHHH! The voice of reason.
Now.....just wait the following year and draft Brady Quinn.
How many longhorn fans were touting the Simms kid as the next great pro QB??
Each year it seems that there is some longhorn player that we should take no. 1.....
Last year it was the texas linebacker.
Guess I just made a lot of new friends.
cac:
Htown34s
Waterboy
cuppacoffee said:
Ummm, none. Simms wasn't liked in Austin for good reason. He doesn't play with passion and he has no leadership qualities on the field. Major Applewhite was a crowd favorite.
I'm a Horn fan but I'm honest about our players like I am with the Texans. Last year I saw VY as WR only in the NFL. The past year has changed my mind.
I think everyone should at least watch last year's Rose Bowl game and this year's UT/Ohio St game before commenting on VY.
Mack Brown almost got fired for playing Simms over Applewhite. Nobody likes Simms. I'm not saying we should draft Young. Hell, he's not even gonna be in this years draft. Texans need O-Line help before anything. You can't win games when your only giving your QB 1.7 secs to throw the ball. Have fun watching the Horns in the Rose Bowl!!!