Vince Young on PTI

[Vinny]

He said he was undecided about coming out at this point and stated he isn't thinking about anything but playing for his teammates right now... he did not say he was staying like he stated earlier. They asked him point blank if he would like to play for Houston and said he would love it and would like to play here in his hometown.

 

[edo783]

Great that he would love to play for the Texans, but IMO, he isn't what the teams needs at this point.

 

[God of Wine]

I have been wondering what Reggie Bush would say if they asked him the same question.

 

[hot pickle]

I think that reggie would play here, he doesn't seem like the kind of player that will refuse to play for a team, but i don't know him so i could be wrong

 

[ccdude730]

"i dont have a choice" was one of his answers also when asked if he would like to come to the houston texans.

young isnt needed here IMO

 

[kbourda]

"i dont have a choice" was one of his answers also when asked if he would like to come to the houston texans.

young isnt needed here IMO

The "I don't have a choice" was said after he was asked by Tony Kornheiser would he play for the Texans if his name was called on draft day by the Texans.

 

[kbourda]

Great that he would love to play for the Texans, but IMO, he isn't what the teams needs at this point.

That can be debated a great deal.

 

[Napa Auto Parts]

How sweet would it be if he did enter the draft there's no way we could pass up on him after all this is a business and nothing would sell more tickets than a M.vick type player hopefully only better.

 

[Fiddy]

YAY!!!!



Too bad I missed PTI today.

 

[bigcarlos]

He is what this team needs.......IMO

 

[MorKnolle]

Vince Young is about the last person in college football that we would need right now, and we should not draft him unless he somehow drops to the 3rd round or below, which won't happen.

 

[tulexan]

Well we aren't going to be drafting him so this shouldn't even be a discussion. John Clayton tonight said on Sportscenter that Bob McNair has said that he is planning on exercising the $8 million option on Carr because there isn't a quarterback in the draft that has the passing and running abilities that David has. Clayton also said that Capers will most likely be fired for not utilizing David's skills.

I think they are going to sign Kubiak because he has experience using strong armed mobile quarterbacks and has had a lot of success with them.

 

[Fiddy]

John Clayton tonight said on Sportscenter that Bob McNair has said that he is planning on exercising the $8 million option on Carr because there isn't a quarterback in the draft that has the passing and running abilities that David has.

Yeah it will be hard to find another QB that has the running ablility to break a good pocket and then get sacked outside the pocket. And it will also be hard to find another QB that throws the 2 yard hitch as well as Carr...

 

[tulexan]

David Carr does have the second highest rushing yards for a quarterback behind Michael Vick. There is also not much you can do when the plays called are short hitches and not moving the ball down the field. It is also hard to throw anything more than short hitches when you have to get rid of the ball in 1.3 seconds rather than 3. Like it or not, David Carr will be our quarterback for the next few years. Vince Young will not start his career as a Texan. It is not going to happen. Just because the guy is a good player, from Houston, and playing at UT does not make him a #1 overall pick. I have yet to see a mock draft where he is drafted over Reggie Bush, Matt Leinart, or D'Brickinshaw Ferguson. He is good, but he is still a project. You don't draft a project at #1.

 

[Hervoyel]

Yeah it will be hard to find another QB that has the running ablility to break a good pocket and then get sacked outside the pocket. And it will also be hard to find another QB that throws the 2 yard hitch as well as Carr...

Yeah, see the problem there is that your typical rookie QB doesn't have the "touch" to throw that 2 yard hitch and doesn't develop it until he's at least coming to the end of his second season.

 

[StarStruck]

David Carr does have the second highest rushing yards for a quarterback behind Michael Vick.

Since he's usually running for his life, I'm surprised that he doesn't have as many yards as LaDanian Tomlinson.

 

[PapaL]

How sweet would it be if he did enter the draft there's no way we could pass up on him after all this is a business and nothing would sell more tickets than a M.vick type player hopefully only better.

Thats what we said about Derrick Johnson last year. If Young comes out this year, we aim for Vick2 next year.

 

[MorKnolle]

They were talking about Vince Young on 610 radio this morning and they all agreed that they didn't see Vince being picked in the top 10 this year. I'm not totally sure I agree with that, but I still see him as being the 3-5 QB taken in the draft so it just depends on what teams are looking for a QB and where their picks are at.

 

[Texans Horror]

That's cause he had a bad game against A&M. Assume he wins the National Championship for Texas. Then let's see if he goes in the Top 10. I'm sure Arizona, Baltimore, and a lot of other teams would love to pass on a QB with his poise.

 

[Blake]

They were talking about Vince Young on 610 radio this morning and they all agreed that they didn't see Vince being picked in the top 10 this year. I'm not totally sure I agree with that, but I still see him as being the 3-5 QB taken in the draft so it just depends on what teams are looking for a QB and where their picks are at.

I dont think he is a lock for a top 10 pick. Here are the top 10 teams at this moment. I could see him going in the top 20.

1 Houston - Carr. They will look elsewhere.
2 New York Jets - Pennington. They have so much money invested.
3 San Francisco - Alex Smith
4 Green Bay - Aaron Rogers
5 Tennessee - Billy Volek.
6 Arizona - Should jump up and take Matt Lienart.
7 New Orleans - Brooks, and backing up brooks is Adrian McPherson.
8 Baltimore - Possible QB pick.
9 Miami - Possible QB pick.
10 Buffalo - JP Losman

Also, Jay Cutler is looking great this year. He might end up being the 2nd QB taken.

 

[Fiddy]

I don't pay to go to games to watch Mike Vick run up his personal yardage, listen to everyone fellate him for being such a prime athlete, and then see him lose when he coasts into the playoffs in the worst division (not any more, but years past) in all of football and gets beat down by a real team.

Didnt Mike Vick get to the NFC Championship game last year??? He has gone as far as Manning in the playoffs in less time.

And this is a fact: When Vick plays, Falcons win. When Vick sits, Falcons lose. Vick wins, and that's all that counts.

In 2003, the year Vick got injured in the preseason, the Atlanta Falcons went 2-10 without Vick and 3-1 with Vick.
In contrast, as Vinny has brought up a few times, the Houston Texans had their best stretch of the franchise in 2003 when Carr was on the bench and Banks was starting/getting most of the snaps in a game.

 

[Texans Horror]

I dont think he is a lock for a top 10 pick. Here are the top 10 teams at this moment. I could see him going in the top 20.

1 Houston - Carr. They will look elsewhere.
2 New York Jets - Pennington. They have so much money invested.
3 San Francisco - Alex Smith
4 Green Bay - Aaron Rogers
5 Tennessee - Billy Volek.
6 Arizona - Should jump up and take Matt Lienart.
7 New Orleans - Brooks, and backing up brooks is Adrian McPherson.
8 Baltimore - Possible QB pick.
9 Miami - Possible QB pick.
10 Buffalo - JP Losman

Also, Jay Cutler is looking great this year. He might end up being the 2nd QB taken.

Help me out here. The way I see this, there are potentially 3 teams looking for a QB, and IMO two others (Tenn and NO) who could be added. McNair is on his way out, and a lot of people are doubting Brooks. But regardless, let's say 3. Why wouldn't Baltimore or Miami, who have had QB woes for years now, not go for Vince? Just curious on your opinion.

 

[Texas_Thrill]

I don't even see VY going past the Jets honestly. This could be a toss-up out of him and bush for the jets but i dont think you toss out a curtis martin the way he has performed and i'm not sure you bring in a bush and sit him. A RB's time is limited.

Pennington can't stay healthy regardless of the money invested. I think the J E T S JETS JETS taking VY if he comes out.

 

[cadahnic]

Vince needs to keep his athletic, randall cunningham(not mike Vick), inaccuarate Houston behind in school one more year so he can compete with Brady Quinn for the top pick next year. This year though Leinhart and Jacobs rule the QB market. Leinhart will likely end up in Zona and Jacobs is a definate fit for Miami or Baltimore. Jay Cutler is my sleeper 1st rounder to go late to the lions. The Saints are thinking about getting rid of Brooks since he is due some serious cash next year. He may be dealt or dropped for someone else. NO may move to SA, OKcity, or LA and they will want some marquee name to help that transistion.

 

[Fiddy]

When Vick wins a Super Bowl or finishes his career as consistently one of the top quarterbacks in the league, we can talk about what a great player he is. In the meantime, drafting a completely substandard version of him (Vince Young: less speed, less arm, less accuracy, less upside, but more height: yay for that) is an utter waste.

Fiddy, I know you are not a fan of Carr, and though I disagree, I respect your right to the opinion, because even though statistics are not the end-all, be-all analysis of greatness, through them you can make a legitimate claim to your case. That's fine, so be it.

Great players dont need stats, they need wins. Vick wins, that's why he gets paid. How you can judge's Vince's game speed, arm and accuracy is beyond me. VY my not be as fast as Vick, but he makes DB's looks slow. At times it looks like his arm isnt the greatest but that is because he has learned how to put touch on his balls. He's had more than a few long balls this year. And he is the most accuarte passer in Texas Longhorn history if I recall correctly.

That said, how could Vince Young possibly be what we need? He could suit up next game and he would look positively rotten if he was playing under the same conditions Carr currently endures. Look at the candy *** collegiate schedule he has built his statistics against this year. Honestly look at our team as it sits now and tell me he is the most prominent answer to what ails us. We have so much else to deal with first.

What conditions did Carr endure against the Rams??? He had time and he was finding open WRs. And then the game got close and he couldnt do anything. Look at the drive in OT, Carr was going with first reads, he wasnt giving the play a chance to develop. He was playing not to lose. He did not want to throw the INT that went back for a TD, he didnt want the blame so he did quick throws where he is hoping for the WR or RB to do something. With the game on the line, there really is not a more clutch college QB than Vince Young. They flash his comeback record everytime the Longhorns are down in a game and it's impressive. That and his 18 game win streak. Two big, national television games, Ohio State and Michigan, and Vince Young has come up big in both of them and comes off as Superman. Yes, he turned the ball over a couple times in each game and yes he made dumb mistakes and yes he made big plays through the air and on the ground to win both.

Candy *** schedule??? That WAC schedule that Carr racked up yardage against must have been tough.

Carr's college schedule where he racked up over 4,000 yards passing:
Aug 25 at Colorado
Sep 1 Oregon St
Sep 8 at Wisconsin
Sep 15 Utah St
Sep 22 at Tulsa
Sep 29 La Tech
Oct 13 at Col State
Oct 20 Boise St
Oct 27 at Hawaii
Nov 3 Rice
Nov 10 at SMU
Nov 17 at Nevada
Nov 24 SJSU

That looks tough

I know you didnt mention him but to get this out of the way: Matt Leinart has been going up against a schedule that is, if I added right (there's a posiblity I didnt), 67-65 (.5076). Vince Young has been going up against a schedule that is 73-60 (.5489). I guess Leinart's is more candy ***.

 

[Blake]

But regardless, let's say 3. Why wouldn't Baltimore or Miami, who have had QB woes for years now, not go for Vince? Just curious on your opinion.

I guess I just feel that some teams would rather not gamble on a QB. You may be right. He may get scooped up at #5. But there are 2 QB's that should be NFL rated higher than him.

Also, the Ravens are a defensive team. I dont think they want to play QB carousel. Billick will probably opt for a lineman, or linebacker.

 

[BigBull17]

Great players dont need stats, they need wins. Vick wins, that's why he gets paid. How you can judge's Vince's game speed, arm and accuracy is beyond me. VY my not be as fast as Vick, but he makes DB's looks slow. At times it looks like his arm isnt the greatest but that is because he has learned how to put touch on his balls. He's had more than a few long balls this year. And he is the most accuarte passer in Texas Longhorn history if I recall correctly.

But he won't be able to make Pro DB's look slow. He is against substandard boys below his level. In the NFL it will be bigger, stronger, faster men who chase him. I'm not saying he has no hope of being a starter but there is NO guarentee(sp) that he is the next big thing. He could be Mike Vick or a peice of garbage who sits on our bench for 4 yrs. drawing a check.

 

[Fiddy]

But he won't be able to make Pro DB's look slow. He is against substandard boys below his level. In the NFL it will be bigger, stronger, faster men who chase him. I'm not saying he has no hope of being a starter but there is NO guarentee(sp) that he is the next big thing. He could be Mike Vick or a peice of garbage who sits on our bench for 4 yrs. drawing a check.

Every players we take has a chance of being a bust. David Carr isnt near what he was built up to be coming out of Fresno. Every pick is a risk but I'd rather take a risk on a player who has a history of being electric and winning.

 

[edo783]

What conditions did Carr endure against the Rams??? He had time and he was finding open WRs. And then the game got close and he couldnt do anything. Look at the drive in OT, Carr was going with first reads, he wasnt giving the play a chance to develop. He was playing not to lose. He did not want to throw the INT that went back for a TD, he didnt want the blame so he did quick throws where he is hoping for the WR or RB to do something.

Fiddy, that is just not true. Those decissions are coaching ones and our coaches turn turtle when ever they have a lead. Most of the time even when they don't have the lead, but to say that about is just not true.

 

[Fiddy]

Fiddy, that is just not true. Those decissions are coaching ones and our coaches turn turtle when ever they have a lead. Most of the time even when they don't have the lead, but to say that about is just not true.

I sat there watching it on the big screen in the bubble, and watched his body language. I knew he was playing not to lose. He didnt want the blame.

The OT Drive
1-10-HOU20 (15:00) D.Carr pass to M.Rivers to HST 33 for 13 yards (A.Hargrove).
1-10-HOU33 (14:25) D.Carr pass to M.Bruener to HST 36 for 3 yards (C.Johnson).
2-7-HOU36 (13:48) D.Davis right end to HST 48 for 12 yards (P.Tinoisamoa, Jerome.Carter).
1-10-HOU48 (13:10) D.Davis left guard to SL 47 for 5 yards (A.Hargrove, C.Ivy).
2-5-STL47 (12:33) D.Carr pass incomplete to A.Johnson (J.Kennedy). Play Challenged by Review Assistant and Upheld.
3-5-STL47 (12:26) D.Carr sacked at SL 47 for 0 yards (O.Atogwe).

Rivers and Bruener dont catch balls all game long, but now they appear in the first two plays of OT. Those plays werent designed for the TEs. How do I know this? I don't, it's speculation on my part but the coaches arent THAT stupid. They knew they had to get the ball to AJ, they were doing it all game. They didnt change it in OT, Carr's mentality changed.

And if someone could go back and check, was Davis run off left guard an audible??? I don't remember.

And am I the only one that feels on the sack, Carr should have just thrown it up in the air near one of his WRs??? It's as good as a punt in some ways and it gives your team a chance, especially in OT.

 

[tulexan]

Every players we take has a chance of being a bust. David Carr isnt near what he was built up to be coming out of Fresno. Every pick is a risk but I'd rather take a risk on a player who has a history of being electric and winning.

No, you would rather take a guy from Houston who plays at Texas. If Vince Young played in the Big 10 or SEC you would probably could care less if he played for the Texans. But because he is a local guy you want him. It is understandable, but you have a biased opinion.

 

[Porky]

Fiddy, you da man. All great points.

 

[Fiddy]

Quoting Carr's collegiate statistics might be relevant if the decision was between drafting him and Vince this year, but it's not so let's move on. Carr has proven in games and seasons past that he has the ability, Vince Young has not proven that he is anything against NFL defenses and, I reiterate, under the current staff and roster we currently possess.

What ability has Carr proven? He has not once in his career taken over a game and won it for his team.

As to how I can judge his speed, accuracy, and other attributes, it is simple: I watch the same tape you are watching, only I pay attention to all of it, not just the highlight reel. I visualize the player's future in the NFL, and how he would look against players and teams that resemble what he would be facing in the NFL.

Saying that Vince Young is the most accurate passer in Longhorns history again proves nothing, especially since I am struggling to remember the last time a QB came out of UT and did big in the League in the last two decades. But my memory doesn't go back that far, so if there is some big name lurking back there that I don't remember, by all means, refresh it.

Yeah, I guess you're right. Any scrub can come off the streets and complete 63% of his passes his junior year in college.

Young is the only player in the nation that can complete 63% of his passes and still be considered not accurate enough as a QB. It is quite amazing.

Chris Simms does start for a NFL team, now I'm not saying he is great but NFL caliber he is and he has done something in his career that Carr has never done: Throw for 250+ yards and 3 TDs in a win. Just throwing that out there.

This is all a moot point, however, because in the end, you contend that Carr is the source of the Texans problems, whereas I contend that his performance indicates that he cannot get it done in the system he has been provided with. Carr has the talent to get the job done, and I would hate that we bring your statistical circus onboard and think that he is going to be some dramatic improvement, which again, under our current team and management, he would look nothing like this titan of football glory that you fancy him as at UT.

I am of the belief that if Carr had shown more in practice and in games the coaching staff would have given him more freedom.

The only difference between Joey Harrigton and Carr is Harrigton has had coaches that will sit him on the bench when he sucks it up. Carr sucked it up in the Chiefs game but Capers stuck with him. Give me the name of another unproven 4th year QB in NFL history that would have been able to have the game Carr had without being benched???

None of this will be proven until he comes to the NFL: my only point is, stop looking at one of most dedicated, talented, and determined players on the Texans roster and heaping all of our problems on him. Like the game is a one-man sport all of a sudden.

I'm not putting all the problems on Carr, just the offensive ones. He can't play DB and cant help the secondary.

On another note, you compare UT's opponents' schedule versus USC's, and make the claim that on the basis of W-L alone, that "Leinart's" schedule is more candy *** than Vince's. However, USC has played four top 25 opponents to UT's 3, while UT's schedule has consisted of such perennial Big 12 powerhouses as:

Baylor
Kansas
Rice
Missouri
Louisiana Lafayette (not Big 12, but you get the point)

How you could even make that comparison and keep a straight face is beyond me, but as it is irrelevant to the discussion, I will ignore it from henceforth.

OH NO!!! One more top 25 team. OH, the greatness of USC.

Yeah, USC played those powerhouses of Washington, Washington State and Arizona.

 

[El Tejano]

Yeah it will be hard to find another QB that has the running ablility to break a good pocket and then get sacked outside the pocket. And it will also be hard to find another QB that throws the 2 yard hitch as well as Carr...

Ha Ha Ha. But Vince throws that same hitch pass with Texas. Sometimes you have to think Greg Davis and Chris Palmer are some kind of brothers and every now and then invite each other into their booths and let them call a couple of plays for a series.

But lets look at it this way. UT fans will know what I am talking about when I say that Greg Davis used to call a very conservative offense (understatement) but as Vince Young developed the offensive play calling has expanded. Much of that had to do with the fact that Vince Young single handedly changed all that through his athleticism but most of it was because of his hard work at becoming a better all around QB. Vince Young is Steve Mcnairs Godson so he goes to work out with him every offseason and it has shown this year. He is picking up defensive schemes better every year. I think you have to bring this kid in to give David the competition he needs for the job.

I am a Carr fan but if this kid is available you go for him.

 

[Fiddy]

No, you would rather take a guy from Houston who plays at Texas. If Vince Young played in the Big 10 or SEC you would probably could care less if he played for the Texans. But because he is a local guy you want him. It is understandable, but you have a biased opinion.

I'm not gonna lie, I do have bias towards Young, like Fresno boys have bias towards Carr. (Not saying your from Fresno) But I have been able to watch Vince Young grow dramatically over a 11 month period. If he played in the SEC or Big 10, I wouldnt have been able to see him as much and would have reserved judgement on him. I have never once talked about a player that I don't watch. I have only seen Brady Quinn play a couple of times this year so I dont talk about him.

 

[Fiddy]

He was 7-9 last year before bad management and injuries to the functioning OL and key players (Mathis, AJ, and Davis have missed quite a few games) screwed the pooch this year. Even at that, I will concede, he has looked rough at times. Rough enough to cut him and move on without ever really giving him a chance? No.

Strength of our schedule had something to do with that. Carr has never beaten a top notch team. Never. Banks beat the Panthers their Super Bowl year when Carr was hurt. He took the Pats to OT. He got most of the snaps in the Falcons game. Carr had the guts to finish it with the bum shoulder, but Banks put us in position to win before he broke his hand. The best stretch of this franchise came with Tony Banks at QB.

Speaking of offensive lines, Young plays behind one of the absolute best in the nation. You are right that he is a junior, and that he has even less experience against quality competition. I don't have time to type out the list of quarterbacks who put up good numbers in college (Jason White from OU, handed your Longhorns a stomping or two) but couldn't hack it in the League.

The WRs he was throwing to and the defense that shut down UT are hacking it in the league. You said I was making Carr the whole reason we lost, you just made White the whole reason OU won.

Way to pick a completely arbitrary statistical combination in defense of Simms' - what, 2? - career NFL W's, in an attempt to make a comparison of NFL ability.

Just pointing out a fact. I really dont even like Simms. He chokes too much for my liking. And I think he has around 4 career W's. I think.

You obviously think highly of our coaching staff. Do I really have to go through the list of where and why they were all previously fired? Second chance is over, fire them and then see what the new guys can do.

These guys arent total morons. Why would they risk their jobs by not playing to what Carr has shown??? The wouldnt. They figure the best way to win is to not give Carr too much responsiblity.

Do you know the reason we never went to the short drops like was promised in training camp??? Carr threw too many INTs which was evident in the last 2 preseason games. The coaching staff couldnt trust him to make the read. And dont blame the WRs or O-line on his inablity to throw short drops. Short drop throws are all on the QB unless it is dropped.

Now you are just talking crazy. I don't have that kind of time.

No, please, name me a QB that could have had that kind of game Carr had against the Chiefs and not get benched during it??? Except for the obvious (Manning, Vick, Brady, etc.) you probably couldnt think of one. Harrington throws a stinker, he is on the bench. Carr throws a stinker, we find another goat.

One more Top 25 and two less absolute lemons.

Like I say, we'll see who beats who in this year's championship.

Fine by me.

 

[Fiddy]

News flash: Pendry coaches Carr not to throw the long ball. Remember Jacksonville? Down 7 with less than a minute to go, Carr chucks it long to a wide, stank open Corey Bradford on fourth down, a fast receiver who had beaten his one-on-one coverage. It comes over Bradford's shoulder, into his hands ... and right f-ing through them.

As if it wasn't enough that Bradford dropped yet another clutch, perfectly thrown ball, Pendry actually bitches out Carr on the sideline for not going with the "safe" pass to Andre Johnson ... ten yards down the field and a good thirty away from the goalline. When Carr rightfully defends the play - one hell of a pass - Gary Walker bitches him out too.

Blame Carr all you want, but this is the coach's team, and right now, he is not remotely encouraged to think big play.

I didnt say the play was called for a long ball, I said throw it up in the air near a WR. You're gonna get sacked, give your WR a chance in OT especially since your defense is sucking air. If you get the INT, so what??? It's would be like a punt. Maybe you get a catch or an interference, but give your guys a chance...

 

[infantrycak]

Strength of our schedule had something to do with that. Carr has never beaten a top notch team. Never. Banks beat the Panthers their Super Bowl year when Carr was hurt. He took the Pats to OT. He got most of the snaps in the Falcons game. Carr had the guts to finish it with the bum shoulder, but Banks put us in position to win before he broke his hand. The best stretch of this franchise came with Tony Banks at QB.

This is cute for people who don't like Carr, but it implies something completely out of step with reality--that Carr vs. Banks is what controlled those games. So Banks beat the Panthers? Funny how 158 yds, 13 completions and 1 TD would be nothing but disappointment if it was Carr. Where is the theory that the O was dumbed down (as it clearly was in that game) because the coaches knew the QB couldn't take any more? How about some credit to Aaron Glenn for the INT, or to DD for averaging 6.2 ypc against a top D? Putting that aside, it is certainly clear that Banks' steller 40% passing day for 93 yds is what carried us into competition with the Pats, not Ramon Walker blocking both a punt and a field goal, or the two INT's from Eric Brown and Marcus Coleman. It is a team game. On those two days the team stepped up and played well with Banks, not him winning games or his steller play keeping them in games even.

 

[Fiddy]

This is cute for people who don't like Carr, but it implies something completely out of step with reality--that Carr vs. Banks is what controlled those games. So Banks beat the Panthers? Funny how 158 yds, 13 completions and 1 TD would be nothing but disappointment if it was Carr. Where is the theory that the O was dumbed down (as it clearly was in that game) because the coaches knew the QB couldn't take any more? How about some credit to Aaron Glenn for the INT, or to DD for averaging 6.2 ypc against a top D? Putting that aside, it is certainly clear that Banks' steller 40% passing day for 93 yds is what carried us into competition with the Pats, not Ramon Walker blocking both a punt and a field goal, or the two INT's from Eric Brown and Marcus Coleman. It is a team game. On those two days the team stepped up and played well with Banks, not him winning games or his steller play keeping them in games even.

I never said Banks was great those games but he did what he had to do. Ironically, the team never "steps up" when Carr is in the game. I'm not saying Carr influences the defense or speical teams but if Banks throws an INT in the Carolina game, we lose and the team stepping up is never looked at. Banks did what he had to do to win.

I feel the defense stepped up in the Bengals game by holding them to 16 points, now Carr has to direct his offensive to score more than 10. If Banks was in there and got one more TD, you probably would have said it wasnt Banks, it was the D stepping up and limiting the high powered offense to 16 points. Carr doesnt step up and fumbles the game away so the team doesnt look like it steps up when in reality they did.

If Carr went out every week and threw for 158 and 1 TD and we won, I'd be happy cause he is doing enough to win.

Like Kyle Orton in Chicago, he does what he had to and doesnt give the game away. He allows his defense to do what it does and makes one or two plays a game to win it and doesnt make one or two plays to lose it. We were in the KC game until Carr decided to lock onto a quick one step out route which was picked off and taken to the house. If Carr doesnt throw the INT, the game has a different complextion. Now Carr doesnt have Orton's defense, but he can't make stupid decisions like the INT at the end of the half in KC or not throwing the ball up on 3rd down in OT when he was about to be sacked and he is on his side of the field.

---------
And in the Pats game, Eric Brown got a INT at the goal line on 2nd or 3rd down I believe and then fumbled to give the Pats another 3 tries to get a TD, which I think they did. That INT acually hurt the team.

 

[real]

great post

 

[tulexan]

David Carr went into Miami the first week of the season in '03 and beat a Miami team which was one of the better teams in the AFC. He didn't have a great game, but he didn't turn the ball over at all like you praise Tony Banks for doing.

 

[Fiddy]

David Carr went into Miami the first week of the season in '03 and beat a Miami team which was one of the better teams in the AFC. He didn't have a great game, but he didn't turn the ball over at all like you praise Tony Banks for doing.

I praise him for that win, that was a great moment in his career and at that time I thought he was going to start his rise to stardom.

I don't know if it gets much clearer than as was said by infantrycak. You take a small handful of games, ignore the type of statistical facts you have been basing your entire "argument" upon all afternoon, and more or less explicitly state that it was Banks versus Carr that made the difference in this "lengthy" win streak.

I have to take a small handful of games because a small handful of games is all Banks played.

What other changes were made in those games other than Carr and Banks??? Not one that I know of. Davis was already the starter, AJ had shown what he could do and the defense was going through injuries. The only non-constant in the wins against top-notch teams were Banks and Carr.

Then, of all games, you bring up this year's Cincinnatti game, a game in which Carr was driving the ball downfield and slung out the incomplete, forward pass before the official screwed us out of one of the most ineptly-called, obvious replays in history. The NFL formally apologized to the Texans for the call. In condeming Carr's play, you conveniently ignore that the other twenty-one players on the field, but are quick to praise Banks for "getting the job done," again, in total isolation of the remainder of the picture.

How would you know if the NFL apoligized for the call??? They do not do that publicly. A apology is only between the team and NFL. And look at the replay, I think it is Herv that will agree (I think Herv was very adament that it was a fumble), Carr did not have complete control of the ball and nontheless, if Carr acts like a QB and takes one step up in the pocket the play never occurs.

Carr had a chance to get the job done in the Cinci game, he didnt. The 'D' held the Cinci 'O' down all game but Carr couldnt help muster a GW drive.

This alone should disqualify your argument for Vince Young, since he has yet to play an NFL down. Have we proven your logic void yet?

No, not yet.

 

[WWJD]

Funny how threads take on a life of their own.

I logged on because it said Vince Young and the majority of the thread is about David Carr.

 

[Hervoyel]

Just a couple of things because like WWJD I looked in here to see what was being said about Vince Young. Little did I know...

Anyway yes, it was a fumble. During the stretch of games Tony Banks started in 2003 the team settled down with him at QB. In the Indy game Carr was off to a great start (8 of 9 for 62 yards and a TD) but he looked kind of tight to me. He'd had a real bad game against Tennessee a couple of weeks prior and had lost a very winnable game against the Jets the week before.

Banks wasn't very good against the Colts but the team did seem to settle down and focus with him taking the snaps. At that point in the season I seem to remember that Carr looked like he was pushing too hard and the team was picking that up and doing it too. Banks just seemed to calm everyone down when he came in the game. The next week against Carolina it was the same thing. The Texans offense didn't have that generally confused "frantic" look about it.

Carr came back against the Bengals and had a reasonable game considering he was hurting some. The rest of the team played pretty hard for Carr (like they had for Banks against Carolina) but we lost. That couldn't have been good for Carr's confidence but honestly it was a close loss. Both teams were scoring that day, our offense just went quiet first.

Then it was Banks again for games against the Bills, Patriots, and Falcons. In all three of those games the team just seemed to play very, very hard and to borrow a Dom-ism the did a good job of "executing" the plays.

Carr could have won those games but nobody wins a game alone. I believe that Banks opportunity came along at a good time for the team because David Carr in 2003 was coming off of a very painful rookie year and he showed (and still shows) signs of being jittery and nervous. Banks was a calming influence during a bad season where we had a ton of injuries. It was veteran leadership and sometimes a less talented veteran can accomplish more than a more talented but less experienced QB.

It's not in Banks numbers, it's in the way the team held their composure while he was in there and in the way the team (read: offense) often came apart (and still comes apart) at the worst times when Carr was in there.

 

[GetItHowULive]

Well we aren't going to be drafting him so this shouldn't even be a discussion. John Clayton tonight said on Sportscenter that Bob McNair has said that he is planning on exercising the $8 million option on Carr because there isn't a quarterback in the draft that has the passing and running abilities that David has. Clayton also said that Capers will most likely be fired for not utilizing David's skills.

I think they are going to sign Kubiak because he has experience using strong armed mobile quarterbacks and has had a lot of success with them.

Can somebody please tell Carr to reveal these unreplaceable "passing and running abilities" that he has. He sucks. Vince needs to be drafted ASAP-along with a new coach-along with some other isht too....The Texans need a major makeover. Stop stickin to the trash we have now and maybe we can actually do something we have had a problem doing since we established...WIN!!!

 

[YoungTexanFan]

Can somebody please tell Carr to reveal these unreplaceable "passing and running abilities" that he has. He sucks. Vince needs to be drafted ASAP-along with a new coach-along with some other isht too....The Texans need a major makeover. Stop stickin to the trash we have now and maybe we can actually do something we have had a problem doing since we established...WIN!!!

i dont even know where to start with your post, but good luck in life and i pray you are sucessful with blind love and scapegoat tactics. I also pray that you dont become the scape goat for something you have very little control over.

 

[Fiddy]

Suffice it to say, I know. A source very close to the team, and I am not going to say anything else about it. Any other smart *** questions?

Yeah I got a couple questions but I'll refrain from asking them because someone seems a little touchy. I didnt even mean it as a smart *** comment. It was an actual question.

In the end, despite the gaping holes in your logic, we will see if Vince Young can parley his college success into a successful NFL career. Truth be told, I think he will do well for himself. No BS. He is a standout athlete who, after taking a few years of lumps and improving his unwieldy arm, will I hope have the good fortune to play for a good coach and in a good system, where, like Randall Cunningham before him, he will have the opportunity to flourish. Assuming that and his remaining free of injury, I think he will do well.

Gaping holes in my logic??? Please explain. You're the one that thinks Carr is a proven QB. Carr has only proved that he can take hits in 4 years. He has a very low football IQ, the reason why the 3-step drops were taken out. He can't excecute a 3-step drop. A 3-step drop is a necessity for a NFL QB and he can't do.

In the end, Carr is still the Texans QB, he will continue to be so for the forseeable future, and when McNair gets done with his spring cleaning, we all pray to God that he will have installed a new and improved coach and staff, the caliber of which that will take us to the heights we are capable of reaching. With David Carr at the helm. Indy is dominant and Jacksonville is knocking at the door, and I firmly believe that, soon, we will be a legitimate threat to them both.

Foreseeable future??? I dont see us competing with Indy and Jax for another 3 years. That's the year I turn 21 and am able to buy beer by myself.

Incidentally, I have met and briefly talked personally with Carr. Maybe this makes me biased, or maybe this only reinforces my belief that he is a fiery competitor, an athlete, a good QB, and the right man for the job.

I've never said Carr wasnt an athlete or competitor.

And this question is to everyone because jerek doesnt want to waste his time with it: What young unproven QB could have the type of game Carr had against KC and not get benched??? I know not Harrington, Orton or Simms. Palmer could because he is an MVP candidate. Can't think of anyone else. Alex Smith would get benched. Can't think of one.

 

[YoungTexanFan]

And this question is to everyone because jerek doesnt want to waste his time with it: What young unproven QB could have the type of game Carr had against KC and not get benched??? I know not Harrington, Orton or Simms. Palmer could because he is an MVP candidate. Can't think of anyone else. Alex Smith would get benched. Can't think of one.

leftwich, eli, vick, rothlisburger...just to start with.

 

[Fiddy]

leftwich, eli, vick, rothlisburger...just to start with.

Vick doesnt get benched, he is a proven superstar and when he is on the field he wins. I've stated this earlier in the thread.

Leftwich, maybe.

Big Ben, no. He has only lost 3 regular season games.

Big Ben and Vick are superstars. Leftwich may have been benched...not sure.

 

[GetItHowULive]

i dont even know where to start with your post, but good luck in life and i pray you are sucessful with blind love and scapegoat tactics. I also pray that you dont become the scape goat for something you have very little control over.

What are you even talkin about? I mean really...

blind love? scapegoat tactics? please spare me...

what does me and my good luck in life have to do with our piss-poor team...i know that I am not the only Houstonian that watches and agrees with my 1st comment...the truth hurts...i know

please reply with something worth reading.