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Vince Young does not rule ass

People............VY has won the exact same number of games with this group.............that McNair had last yr............and he still has 5 games to go............he has 8 TD and 8 INT but four rushing TD's..............his numbers ordinary but he makes plays at crunch time and he is so poised in th epocket its hard to believe he is a rookie who everyone thought would take the two yrs to develop like Mac did...............bottom line he is 4-4 in his first 8 games.............How long did it take Carr to win 4 games? And his D then was awesome compared to what we have now in TN..............he also had more playmakers on O then we have...........but our OL is better no doubt.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
The funny thing about that argument is that if it were Carr that made that comeback the same way VY did, I believe that peoples tone would change....
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That's BS. Sure folks who love Carr would laud the win just like folks who love VY are acting as if PacMan, Kiawanuka and a sketchy roughing the passer call were all irrelevant but all the folks here who ardently don't like Carr would be saying they were given the game and Carr had little or nothing to do with it. One game changes very few peoples' minds.
 
Bongo59 said:
How long did it take Carr to win 4 games? And his D then was awesome compared to what we have now in TN..............he also had more playmakers on O then we have...........but our OL is better no doubt.
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The D was better, the OL was monumentally worse. The Texans did not have more playmakers on O. Jabar Gaffney is hanging in the league by a thread. Corey Bradford is only in the league due to injury and incompetence in Detroit. Neither is as good as Drew Bennett--basically both teams had/have weak WR's. Billy Miller is out of the league and not close to Scaife and Troupe. James Allen and Jonathan Wells are out of the league and can't touch any of the three TN backs.
 
Mr teX said:
Yep people said the same kind of crap when RB got over 100 TOTAL yds in his 1st game with the saints. The guy did good last week no hate here. Next keep that consistency for 16 + straight games.
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As of today VY has a 4-4 record and almost beat the colts in indy. If his WR's will catch the ball his stats would be alot better. Looks like the NFL speed is slowing down for him. Also his Defense is in last place!
 
Don't forget he juked past Demps like he was standing still for the 1s down! Can't get mad at the Giant's DE that let him go. Demps had VY dead to rights before the 1st down markers!
 
The only thing they have in common is that they are black. Young is 6'5 and doesn't have a big arm but is elusive in short space and has a knack for making clutch plays while Vick is Reggie Bush playing QB. Short, explosive runner with a big arm who tends to crumble when forced to make a big play in a clutch situation
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Word....I'm sorry to say this, but I think a lot of the hatred toward VY is flat out "cism" (that's racism for those who aren't up on their slang)....people act as is black quarterbacks are the only quarterbacks who are known for running and scrambling....Steve Young and Elway beat a lot of opponents with their feet.....yet Vince only gets compared to the "black guy"......Vick and Young are totally different (as Vinny stated), they were different in college and they're different now....some people need to start judging the guy on his play and not his skin color.
 
Superstar said:
Dude don't use the race card on this man. They don't like Vince because he is better than Carr.Its a plain simple fact bro.
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I agree. VY and Vick are two completely different players, except for one thing - they are extremely fun to watch because they have the potential to make a dynamic play with their arm or leg on every play. I cannot think of two other QB's that have that ability to dazzle outside of the pocket like the two of them.
 
Dude don't use the race card on this man. They don't like Vince because he is better than Carr.Its a plain simple fact bro.
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I'm not talking about VY vs. Carr specifically, but the fact that Vince always gets compared to Vick when their games aren't similar is racist, because the only thing people see is a black guy that can run.
 
The Dream said:
I'm not talking about VY vs. Carr specifically, but the fact that Vince always gets compared to Vick when their games aren't similar is racist, because the only thing people see is a black guy that can run.
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They're games are similiar in the case that they can both break big runs. I can't think of any other QBs who have the speed to break a big run like they can. It just happens that those two are both black. VY is the closest thing to a QB who can run for the big play like Vick can. That's why there are those comparisons...not because the two guys are black. They have other skill sets that are different...but this is a skill that they both share, and it doesn't seem like any other QBs in the NFL have that skill.

Some people can see racism anywhere...even if it doesn't exist. Nowadays, you have to watch where you throw the word racism around. Some people don't like being called a racist.
 
They're games are similiar in the case that they can both break big runs. I can't think of any other QBs who have the speed to break a big run like they can. It just happens that those two are both black. VY is the closest thing to a QB who can run for the big play like Vick can. That's why there are those comparisons...not because the two guys are black. They have other skill sets that are different...but this is a skill that they both share, and it doesn't seem like any other QBs in the NFL have that skill.

Some people can see racism anywhere...even if it doesn't exist. Nowadays, you have to watch where you throw the word racism around. Some people don't like being called a racist.
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I'm not buying it...yes they can run....but that's it....everything else is pretty much different....so why is it that one of the reasons that people on this board didn't want to draft Vince, because they feared he'd be another Michael Vick?.......he got the Vick comparisons from some while he was in college and he still gets them today.....because he's black.
 
The Dream said:
I'm not buying it...yes they can run....but that's it....everything else is pretty much different....so why is it that one of the reasons that people on this board didn't want to draft Vince, because they feared he'd be another Michael Vick?.......he got the Vick comparisons from some while he was in college and he still gets them today.....because he's black.
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You've got to work on your trust in people. I can assure you that 90% or more of the people that didn't want VY here did not even consider his race as a reason to draft or not draft him. I can't speak for everyone, obviously...but I know I can speak for most in this subject.

The comparisons are because he can break big runs like Vick can, as I said before. Pretty sure when people use that comparison, they are talking about the two QBs ability to run. Sure there are QBs who can run, but not ones who can break big runs like Vick and Vince Young. Would it make more sense to compare him to David Carr? No, because David Carr, while he can run, cannot break big runs like Vick can.

Granted...most people see that they are totally different players...but it is hard to not see that these two guys are the best at running from the QB position in the NFL.

P.S. I have no idea why people wouldn't have wanted Vince Young on our team, besides the money implications.
 
Charter PSL Fan said:
A total collapse by the NY Giants helped his cause. It's not everyday that a defensive lineman has a qb in his grasp and just lets him go because "I thought he threw the ball".
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You still have to take advantage of another team's collapse. A meltdown is nothing if not exploited by another team's opportunistic aggression.

The infamous Oiler meltdown would have been just a footnote if Frank Reich had not been able to take advantage of it. They go hand in hand, two sides of the same coin, and I take nothing away from Vince Young. He rose to the occasion and did not crumble when his team needed him most. I've got the utmost respect for these kind of players, because they are the ones you want on your team with the game on the line.
 
Double Barrel said:
You still have to take advantage of another team's collapse. A meltdown is nothing if not exploited by another team's opportunistic aggression.

The infamous Oiler meltdown would have been just a footnote if Frank Reich had not been able to take advantage of it. They go hand in hand, two sides of the same coin, and I take nothing away from Vince Young. He rose to the occasion and did not crumble when his team needed him most. I've got the utmost respect for these kind of players, because they are the ones you want on your team with the game on the line.
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Good post. Agreed.
 
Double Barrel said:
The infamous Oiler meltdown would have been just a footnote if Frank Reich had not been able to take advantage of it. They go hand in hand, two sides of the same coin, and I take nothing away from Vince Young.
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When one thinks of that game, it's the Oilers choke job that springs to mind. And nothing Reich did in that game was indicative of the results he would have in the future. TBD if this game will be a harbinger of Young's future, or just a Giant meltdown.
 
You've got to work on your trust in people. I can assure you that 90% or more of the people that didn't want VY here did not even consider his race as a reason to draft or not draft him. I can't speak for everyone, obviously...but I know I can speak for most in this subject.

The comparisons are because he can break big runs like Vick can, as I said before. Pretty sure when people use that comparison, they are talking about the two QBs ability to run. Sure there are QBs who can run, but not ones who can break big runs like Vick and Vince Young. Would it make more sense to compare him to David Carr? No, because David Carr, while he can run, cannot break big runs like Vick can.

Granted...most people see that they are totally different players...but it is hard to not see that these two guys are the best at running from the QB position in the NFL.

P.S. I have no idea why people wouldn't have wanted Vince Young on our team, besides the money implications.
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It's not about "trusting" people it's about looking at things in a realistic manner. Most don't see them as different players (read some of the comments in this thread including the following).

Just because both can break big runs doesn't mean that one will turn out like the other (like so many people thought)

Vick completes 51% of his passes
Young completes 49% of his passes

How much different are they?
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I'm guessing you don't watch much football.
 
Double Barrel said:
You still have to take advantage of another team's collapse. A meltdown is nothing if not exploited by another team's opportunistic aggression.

The infamous Oiler meltdown would have been just a footnote if Frank Reich had not been able to take advantage of it. They go hand in hand, two sides of the same coin, and I take nothing away from Vince Young. He rose to the occasion and did not crumble when his team needed him most. I've got the utmost respect for these kind of players, because they are the ones you want on your team with the game on the line.
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frank came in and what did he have to lose? just sling it around like no tomorrow..
 
That's a hollow slam. Not an honest response.
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So just because their completion rates are similar means they're the same type of players?

Well, I am done here...No sense in continuing as your mind will not change. Just watch where you use the word racist.
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I don't "watch" anything I just apply it when I feel it's neccessary.
 
Lucky said:
When one thinks of that game, it's the Oilers choke job that springs to mind. And nothing Reich did in that game was indicative of the results he would have in the future. TBD if this game will be a harbinger of Young's future, or just a Giant meltdown.
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Good point, Lucky. Reich even had a moment of greatness in college, too. IIRC, he was the QB for the greatest comeback in NCAA history, as well.
 
The Dream said:
So just because their completion rates are similar means they're the same type of players?
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Then, please expound on the vast differences in Vick's & Young's games. I'm aware of Michael's superior arm and speed. What else?
 
The Dream said:
I'm not buying it...yes they can run....but that's it....everything else is pretty much different....so why is it that one of the reasons that people on this board didn't want to draft Vince, because they feared he'd be another Michael Vick?.......he got the Vick comparisons from some while he was in college and he still gets them today.....because he's black.
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You are seriously fishing here. Vick and Young have been the two most dynamic QB's in college and soon to be in the NFL (does not necessarily translate to wins).

There is a buzz about them and that comes in the form of marketing, promotion and, consequently, endorsements. The buzz and the debate is a reflection of the market which includes you and me. We are not talking about Rohan Davey, Jared Lorenzen, Ty Detmer or Byron Leftwich because they do not fit into the same category or the ability to make things happen like Vick and Young.

Your point on people not wantinig VY because he is black is just flat out silly. I love watching Vick but he would make me go crazy as the QB of my team, moreover I do not believe in a highly drafted QB. I do seem to remember most of the board wanting two players in last year's draft and not sure if you knew this, but they were both black. I did not want either of them. Does that make me a racist? No, that makes me a realistic fan as I wanted a defensive player, thankfully he was black so I would not be called a racist. :rolleyes:

Take a mental step back every once in a while and realize that there is a fine line between racism and one's perception of racism.
 
One huge difference is their running styles.....I'd call Vick more of a wreckless runner than Vince. Vince seems a little more patient in the pocket before he decides to take off running.

You are seriously fishing here. Vick and Young have been the two most dynamic QB's in college and soon to be in the NFL (does not necessarily translate to wins).

There is a buzz about them and that comes in the form of marketing, promotion and, consequently, endorsements. The buzz and the debate is a reflection of the market which includes you and me. We are not talking about Rohan Davey, Jared Lorenzen, Ty Detmer or Byron Leftwich because they do not fit into the same category or the ability to make things happen like Vick and Young.

Your point on people not wantinig VY because he is black is just flat out silly. I love watching Vick but he would make me go crazy as the QB of my team, moreover I do not believe in a highly drafted QB. I do seem to remember most of the board wanting two players in last year's draft and not sure if you knew this, but they were both black. I did not want either of them. Does that make me a racist? No, that makes me a realistic fan as I wanted a defensive player, thankfully he was black so I would not be called a racist.

Take a mental step back every once in a while and realize that there is a fine line between racism and one's perception of racism.
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If I wasn't talking about you then there's no need to worry, but there has LONG been an association of black quarterbacks not being able to be successful in the NFL....AND there were people on this board and in the real world that thought Vince would be just another Michael Vick...eventhough the only similarities they really have are A.) They're black B.) they run......eventhough he repeatedly led his teams to victory in college AND beat teams with his arm, the comparison's still existed.....you can call it my "perception", but to deny that fans on this board and fans in general can't be racist is insane.
 
Wolf said:
VY = Cunningham
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No offense to you personally, Wolf, but I hate that comparison. One could again make the assertion that you are connecting the two players because of the color of their skin.

Randall Cunningham was a prima donna, crybaby, me-first player who made a lot of plays with his feet (especially early in his career). And when the chips were down, he was not a real winner. Vince Young is a true leader who just naturally compels his teammates to love him, believe in him, and to follow him. And he's got an indefinable magic about him that creates wins almost out of thin air....
 
TexansFanatic said:
No offense to you personally, Wolf, but I hate that comparison. One could again make the assertion that you are connecting the two players because of the color of their skin.

Randall Cunningham was a prima donna, crybaby, me-first player who made a lot of plays with his feet (especially early in his career). And when the chips were down, he was not a real winner. Vince Young is a true leader who just naturally compels his teammates to love him, believe in him, and to follow him. And he's got an indefinable magic about him that creates wins almost out of thin air....
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What the heck are you talking about? When people compare it is because of characteristics like body builds, speed, size and style of play. Not about intangible stuff like being a cry baby, a loser or magic.

Cunningham and VY are both very tall for the position, lanky, unorthodox release, athletic, great feet, strong arms, very mobile and a feel for pressure. Any yes they were both black. In most people's world that is a known similarity and for others it seems to be the defining similarity.
 
BattleRedToro said:
I have to disagree with one of your points and that is Cunningham's delivery. I don't remember him having an unorthodox delivery. I remember it being very much like most other quarterbacks, it was just that he was usually doing it on the run.
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He had lthat long lanky wind up. Looked pretty unique to me.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
What the heck are you talking about? When people compare it is because of characteristics like body builds, speed, size and style of play. Not about intangible stuff like being a cry baby, a loser or magic.

Cunningham and VY are both very tall for the position, lanky, unorthodox release, athletic, great feet, strong arms, very mobile and a feel for pressure. Any yes they were both black. In most people's world that is a known similarity and for others it seems to be the defining similarity.
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Fair enough I guess. I still hate the comparison simply because I see VY as an irrepressible winner and RC as a whiney loser....
 
Everybody loses now and then ... its what you do when on the big stage .

Vince Young - Madison / UT / TBD

Montana - ND huge 4th quarter comeback cotton bowl / NFL all time great .

Jordan -game winning shot as a frosh NCAA championship game / you know the rest .

Clements - CWS win 1983 / do I really have to go on .

I think some guys are just wired to be great when it counts .
 
Akeem also won two ... theres nothing wrong with having some swagger . The Texans need to get some swagger or change their colors to Deacon Blue .
 
TexansSeminole said:
They're games are similiar in the case that they can both break big runs. I can't think of any other QBs who have the speed to break a big run like they can. It just happens that those two are both black. VY is the closest thing to a QB who can run for the big play like Vick can. That's why there are those comparisons...not because the two guys are black. They have other skill sets that are different...but this is a skill that they both share, and it doesn't seem like any other QBs in the NFL have that skill.

Some people can see racism anywhere...even if it doesn't exist. Nowadays, you have to watch where you throw the word racism around. Some people don't like being called a racist.
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Forget all this racism! No one is talking how VY is able to look off the Safety and hit a WR in the skinny post! Knows his progressions already and DC is still looking for it after 5 years! VY's throwing motion looks like it will work also in the NFL. He just flicks his wrist and the ball is gone(which doesn't give the D backs a chance to react) which will open up the field because DB's will have to stay home. What happens when VY gets a play making WR? His TE is out for the season, titans D is ranked #32. Name me a O-Line for titans that will make the Pro-Bowl this year? How come he is not getting sacked like crazy like DC did in his Rookie year? I don't care what anybody says VY is a WINNER! He has the so called "IT". He is going to be like Tom Brady Winning QB. Not a statistical QB. IE: Both Brady and Young won their last 2 games on the last drive to set up there teams for Victory. Stats were avg. But in the 4th Q they don't make mistakes! Find a way to win For some reason this cannot be taught. Teams rally to their QB. IE: dallas is now a SB contender with Romo! So all you stat QB lovers come late January can take your mannings and watch the QB's that win ball games go deep in the playoffs vs stat QB's!
 
TexansFanatic said:
No offense to you personally, Wolf, but I hate that comparison. One could again make the assertion that you are connecting the two players because of the color of their skin.

Randall Cunningham was a prima donna, crybaby, me-first player who made a lot of plays with his feet (especially early in his career). And when the chips were down, he was not a real winner. Vince Young is a true leader who just naturally compels his teammates to love him, believe in him, and to follow him. And he's got an indefinable magic about him that creates wins almost out of thin air....
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Gag me. You forgot the princess fairies dancing enchanted stardust circles around Young.

Kaiser Toro said:
You are seriously fishing here. Vick and Young have been the two most dynamic QB's in college and soon to be in the NFL (does not necessarily translate to wins).

There is a buzz about them and that comes in the form of marketing, promotion and, consequently, endorsements. The buzz and the debate is a reflection of the market which includes you and me. We are not talking about Rohan Davey, Jared Lorenzen, Ty Detmer or Byron Leftwich because they do not fit into the same category or the ability to make things happen like Vick and Young.

Your point on people not wantinig VY because he is black is just flat out silly. I love watching Vick but he would make me go crazy as the QB of my team, moreover I do not believe in a highly drafted QB. I do seem to remember most of the board wanting two players in last year's draft and not sure if you knew this, but they were both black. I did not want either of them. Does that make me a racist? No, that makes me a realistic fan as I wanted a defensive player, thankfully he was black so I would not be called a racist.

Take a mental step back every once in a while and realize that there is a fine line between racism and one's perception of racism.
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No. Vince Young is black. You don't think he is the best choice for our football team. Ergo, you are racist.
 
Vince is already just abusing defenses in the open field by faking throw then running like a deer. He's causing all the problems the smarter, older guys predicted he would cause before he was drafted. He reminds me a lot of John Elway in the open although Elway is truly the mightiest QB to ever possess the rock.

Houston actually matches up well against Vince and I predict some picks if the front 4 comes to play.
 
Vince Young has thrown 1 interception for every 25.7 pass attempts compared to 1 every 33.75 attempts for Tom Brady. In case you are wondering how David Carr compares, he has thrown 1 interception for every 50.43 pass attempts
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what are you trying to prove here again?
 
Vince Young is really doing great imo and I would much rather him than reggie bush. i was the opposite before the draft. however....

who would we have drafted in the 2nd round if we did pick up VY in the 1st? I'm not sure if we still would have picked demeco ryans..
Even if we did, would he be performing the way he is now? I doubt without mario there he would be doing this good.
maybe this draft we would be looking at a DE in the 1st.

Kind of interesting think what everything would have been like..

Do you think we would have made a bigger effort to move back in the 1st to pick up maroney or deangelo williams to help vince out? How do you think the draft would have been different and what about this next draft?
 
BattleRedToro said:
No that isn't true. I was only trying to prove that Vince Young is not as great as he is being made out to be by many of those posting on this message board. He is 5-4 as a starter, and quite fortunate to be that, which is merely adequate. CaptionPatriot was comparing Vince Young to Tom Brady and stating that he didn't like statistical QB's. He claimed that Young did not have good statistics and that Brady didn't either, but that they were winning QB's. I decided to do a statistical comparison between Brady and Young, of their number of interceptions thrown, but to be fair to Brady I had to account for his far greater number of pass attempts. I only included David Carr in the comparison because I knew some Carr hater would claim that Young's numbers were still better than Carr's numbers without even first doing the analysis. I also included their rookie years for those that would complain that it was unfair to compare Brady and Carr to Young since he is a rookie. After all of this, the only response I get is that I'm a Carr :homer:. This doesn't suprise me since Vince Young fans don't understand objective analysis.
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your right, those 2, 1 point losses we should have been 7-2 now with VY at QB!
 
BattleRedToro said:
I'll give you a stat to consider. Interceptions. That is where Vince Young and Tom Brady greatly differ. Tom Brady is much better at protecting the ball. Sure Brady has thrown more interceptions this year than Young but he has also almost attempted twice as many passes. Vince Young has thrown 1 interception for every 25.7 pass attempts compared to 1 every 33.75 attempts for Tom Brady. In case you are wondering how David Carr compares, he has thrown 1 interception for every 50.43 pass attempts. But this is Vince Young's rookie season so I'll compare the others's rookie seasons for you. Tom Brady 1 interception for every 34.42 pass attempts and David Carr 1 interception for every 29.6 pass attempts.
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Good work on the Stats! But that is for the Whole game. Wonder what are Tom Brady, VY and DC INT's, 3rd down conversions and 4th down conversions stats in the 4th Q of close games not blow out games? IMO the other 3 Q's are to keep it close until the 4th Q. As for DC's stats they are deceiving. His 1 INT/29.6 PA how many of those PA's are 10 yards or less or dump off passes? Also for DC when the game is a blow out he looks great driving down the field padding up his stats. D starts to keep the ball in front of them. When the pressure is on IE: like 3rd down conversions as an example how many times have we seen DC fumble, trip on his feet or O-Linemen feet or look at 1 WR and not go threw his progression only to throw a INT. Allot of people on here talk about how strong DC's arm is and his Great Athletic ability BLAH BLAH BLAH. But under pressure it all disappears! Can anyone tell me a pass on 3rd or 4th down or winning drive that DC has thrown where the football goes up over the LB finger tips and down in front of a Safety and hit the WR in stride this year? (Since this is DC's so-called come out year). He doesn't have that touch! He either throws it hard and forces it in double coverage or up high down the sidelines for AJ. Lets all face it VY makes better Decisions under pressure than DC hands down! The last 2 games looks like the NFL Game has slowed down for VY and for DC it still too fast for him.Some people on here keep giving excuses for DC IE:line blocking. DC has better WR's and TE than VY has. No more excuses! Now the Texans are stuck with DC now :brickwall The window is now closed to trade him for couple of high draft picks. Forgot there still is Sage for next year.:dance3: Now that guy has good touch on the football and given the chance hopefully make better decisions than DC. Lets face it he can't do any worse than DC in pressure situations!
 
kingh99 said:
Vince is already just abusing defenses in the open field by faking throw then running like a deer. He's causing all the problems the smarter, older guys predicted he would cause before he was drafted. He reminds me a lot of John Elway in the open although Elway is truly the mightiest QB to ever possess the rock.

Houston actually matches up well against Vince and I predict some picks if the front 4 comes to play.
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Wonder what would have happen if the colts stuck to their guns and not buckle like little school girls to elway's demands to be traded and let his A** go play baseball? Just a thought
 
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