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Ibar_Harry

Ibar_Harry

All Pro
This is from Kubiak's presser on Monday morning that is on this Web Site under Multimedia press.

(on clock-management at the end of the first half) “We definitely need to take a shot (at the endzone) right there. That was my fault. I’ll tell you what took place is, I felt like they called two time outs back-to-back (which should be a delay of game penalty), and I told the official that. As we discussed that the clock continued to move. They didn’t reset the clock, and after it was all said and done he told me that he thought it was a mistake. But that doesn’t matter. We have to handle mistakes. That’s our job. I should have seen it moving. I hurt (QB) David (Carr) there by not getting the call in quick enough. We did not have a time out, and we didn’t want to get caught on the field. So we have to handle the clock better. That was my fault.”

People were chidding David for this play during the game on Sunday. It was almost non-stop. I find it interesting to hear what the real story was. Again its like so much else going on out there. People think they know what Kubiak is doing and calling. If you go read the presser you will find out that Carr was suppose to dump it off as much as he did. We are using the short pass like a running game.

For the die hards out there we do have a team, they are coming along fine, and yes I think we are going to surprise a lot of people. Before the season everyone were shouting whoa is me with respect to defense. Its not what a lot of people thought it would be, its far better. The offense will be just fine once we get some more time. The only constants on offense are Wiegert(maybe not even him), Carr, AJ, and Pitts. The rest of the offense is new when you consider who was playing last year. Just give it a little more time and we will be having fun.

Without us making a couple of penalties on Sunday, Denver looses the game. Hey, the one penalty on special teams went from a field goal to a touchdown. That's 4 points and we lost by 3. I like our team and I like how they are coming along and how they are being treated by the coaching staff. Remember, Kubiak looks at film and has a different perception of what is happeing out on the field. I tend to like to listen to what he says. I have a bit of confidence in him as a coach.
 
Whenever I read your posts Ibar, I always have to remind myself that you're from Fresno. Your posts are coherent and thought out, but you need to be more objective about Carr, and admit he didn't play well at all overall. I'm not a Carr hater and you know that.
 
Whatever. When my team spends the first pipck in the draft on a QB and then we extend him into his fifth year I expect some leadership and imagination not Derek Zoolander. He has never had a finger on the pulse of a game, score and time situation in my opinion.

That TD opportunity should have been more importnat to DC, his unit, this team more so that Kubiak. And I would certainly guarantee that if Carr deviated and falied, Kubiak would have had his back, just like here, but would be thrilled that his QB took the next step.

In his Fresno days, did he ever have to run a live two minute drill?
 
Kaiser, do you think David should have just ignored what Kubiak told him to do, and done what he might have wanted to do? Surely you don't think that at this point, that that would have been the best decision on David's part??? Do you??? Just say shove it, Kubiak, I'm doing it my way?
 
Texanfan4ever said:
Kaiser, do you think David should have just ignored what Kubiak told him to do, and done what he might have wanted to do? Surely you don't think that at this point, that that would have been the best decision on David's part??? Do you??? Just say shove it, Kubiak, I'm doing it my way?
Click to expand...

It will need to happen at sometime. The sooner the better. As a former coach, captain and player in a collegiate sports environment you will never say this publicly or to the team, but the coaches are discussing it behind closed doors. Not looking for a loose cannon here, just looking for someone who wants to take ownership of the situation on the field of play.
 
I can percieve three things happening if Carr runs hiw own play.

1. Turnover to the Broncos D (possibly a return for a TD)
2. Texans score a TD
3. Carr is sacked and time runs out or RB tackled before the 1st Down with time running out.(No FG)

Sometimes it's the things you don't do that make the difference.
 
rittenhouserobz said:
I can percieve three things happening if Carr runs hiw own play.

1. Turnover to the Broncos D (possibly a return for a TD)
2. Texans score a TD
3. Carr is sacked and time runs out or RB tackled before the 1st Down with time running out.(No FG)

Sometimes it's the things you don't do that make the difference.
Click to expand...

Elway does not become the Elway we know by sitting idly waiting for instruction.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Whatever. When my team spends the first pipck in the draft on a QB and then we extend him into his fifth year I expect some leadership and imagination not Derek Zoolander. He has never had a finger on the pulse of a game, score and time situation in my opinion.

That TD opportunity should have been more importnat to DC, his unit, this team more so that Kubiak. And I would certainly guarantee that if Carr deviated and falied, Kubiak would have had his back, just like here, but would be thrilled that his QB took the next step.

In his Fresno days, did he ever have to run a live two minute drill?
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Im curious as to what your response would have been if Carr threw an INT because the recievers weren't on the same page, or the clock ran out and they didnt even get a field goal? I find it hard to believe you would be commending Carr for taking it into his own hands then.
 
Reddevil63 said:
Im curious as to what your response would have been if Carr threw an INT because the recievers weren't on the same page, or the clock ran out and they didnt even get a field goal? I find it hard to believe you would be commending Carr for taking it into his own hands then.
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I think he is saying that a veteran savvy QB takes control in that situation and doesn't let the game slip away with a rookie-esque posture waiting for the coach to tell him what to do.
 
Reddevil63 said:
Im curious as to what your response would have been if Carr threw an INT because the recievers weren't on the same page, or the clock ran out and they didnt even get a field goal? I find it hard to believe you would be commending Carr for taking it into his own hands then.
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Of course I would have been happy as this is something I have been wanting to see for some time as it would benefit the team immensely in my opinion. There has been a serious void when it comes to visible leadership on the offensive side of the ball.
 
Ibar

I think the responses here prove your point - without arguing your points that people overreacted by placing all blame on Carr for that specific play, or that Carr was told to dump off rather than throw downfield, the responses are all dedicated proposition that Carr is, was, and forever will be worthless.

While it's fun to draw immediate and iron-clad conclusions, let's at least wait until we get a few regular season games in under the new O system, eh?
 
Here is the bottom line, regardless if Carr is dumping off because of direct orders, there isn't a defensive coordinator that will be concerned about David Carr when preparing their game plan from what he has shown this preseason.

That is going to be David's biggest obstacle to overcome the first part of the season. Defensive coordinators are going to take away that short stuff or let it happen to extent to where it is three and out. In addition, he is going to get blitzed like crazy.

So you can say Kubiak is calling the shots so far on Carr's throws, but the offense hasn't really shown a lot from the passing game. Teams are going to stack the line to stuff the run and take away the short passing game because they will not be concerned about the deep ball unless Carr starts to show he can burn defenses.

As for Kubiak giving Carr direct orders, he has also said that he has shown them most of the offense but can't implement all of it during a game because they don't get it yet. Kubiak is running on a short play book right now as I understand it. Read into that what you will.

It appears Carr and the offense are going to have a tough first half of the season.

The Eagles game is huge. They drop that one and it's going to be tough going for the next 6 games or so.
 
Texanfan4ever said:
Kaiser, do you think David should have just ignored what Kubiak told him to do, and done what he might have wanted to do? Surely you don't think that at this point, that that would have been the best decision on David's part??? Do you??? Just say shove it, Kubiak, I'm doing it my way?
Click to expand...

That's not the point.. Kubiak didn't tell him to do anything.

Carr should be just as aware as Kubiak is about the clock...... field management. If he sees Kubiak is pre-occupied, it shouldn't be too much to look to sherman or even up at the booth........ if he's getting nothing from them, he should call a play, and get moving.

Now I never blamed Carr for that incident........ I blamed Hocculi...... the spike, I blame Kubiak....
 
Kaiser is right. It is obvious that Texanfan4ever, rittenhouserobz, Reddevil63, PoolMaster21 and myself are all from Fresno. We all have to be homers not to agree with your point of view. It couldn't be that the "give them more than three preseason games to gel" approach is a valid one.

I highly doubt that some fans even enjoy watching the games at this point. At some point you lose the perspective of being a fan of "your" team and morph into a combination of a pre-2004 Red Sox/Cleveland Browns fan: someone who looks for every excuse to predict doomsday for their "team".

The sky is falling... The sky is falling... :confused:
 
PoolMaster21 said:
Ibar

I think the responses here prove your point - without arguing your points that people overreacted by placing all blame on Carr for that specific play, or that Carr was told to dump off rather than throw downfield, the responses are all dedicated proposition that Carr is, was, and forever will be worthless.

While it's fun to draw immediate and iron-clad conclusions, let's at least wait until we get a few regular season games in under the new O system, eh?
Click to expand...

Peyton Manning turns the punting team around in a playoff game.... he knows they need a touchdown.

All we are asking, is David huddles the guys up, and call a play... at the goal line. What's the big deal??
 
FSUBulldog said:
Kaiser is right. It is obvious that Texanfan4ever, rittenhouserobz, Reddevil63, PoolMaster21 and myself are all from Fresno. We all have to be homers not to agree with your point of view. It couldn't be that the "give them more than three preseason games to gel" approach is a valid one.

I highly doubt that some fans even enjoy watching the games at this point. At some point you lose the perspective of being a fan of "your" team and morph into a combination of a pre-2004 Red Sox/Cleveland Browns fan: someone who looks for every excuse to predict doomsday for their "team".

The sky is falling... The sky is falling... :confused:
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is not giving the team time to gel.

We're waiting for Carr to step up.
 
hollywood_texan said:
They drop that one and it's going to be tough going for the next 6 games or so.
Click to expand...

You might reconsider how sure fire a loss the Washington game is--they have not looked good this preseason. 17 total points scored to 87 given up. They were so bad against the Pats the commentators were wanting to call the game early on a mercy rule.
 
FSUBulldog said:
Kaiser is right. It is obvious that Texanfan4ever, rittenhouserobz, Reddevil63, PoolMaster21 and myself are all from Fresno. We all have to be homers not to agree with your point of view. It couldn't be that the "give them more than three preseason games to gel" approach is a valid one.

I highly doubt that some fans even enjoy watching the games at this point. At some point you lose the perspective of being a fan of "your" team and morph into a combination of a pre-2004 Red Sox/Cleveland Browns fan: someone who looks for every excuse to predict doomsday for their "team".

The sky is falling... The sky is falling... :confused:
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And Kaiser is from Austin so he COULD be a little disgruntled that we didn't take Vince and is leaning toward the anti-Carr movement.

We all bring in our own mind and prejudices into the conversations. The problems arise when we don't let those of differing opnion have an opinion.
 
Overalls said:
And Kaiser is from Austin so he COULD be a little disgruntled that we didn't take Vince and is leaning toward the anti-Carr movement.
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Kaiser is not a VY fan either--what he doesn't believe in are high draft pick/high paid QB's, especially those not performing to their level of pay.
 
thunderkyss said:
Peyton Manning turns the punting team around in a playoff game.... he knows they need a touchdown.

All we are asking, is David huddles the guys up, and call a play... at the goal line. What's the big deal??
Click to expand...

The big deal was the coach. Lets once again detail the situation. Its 3rd down with the clock running down from 35 seconds. You can not call time out, because you have no time outs left. If you spike the ball he knows its field goal time, because they are not going to go for it on 4th down in that situation. So Carr is waiting for a play to be called to hopefully take one last shot, but the problem is the coaches are calling the plays, Carr has no leave way and the coaches forget to call the play. It was extemely important not to loose the opportunity of scoring some points in that situation.

Payton Manning's call of sending the field goal team off the field would have gotten him benched by most coaches. He literally disobeyed a direct order. He has great confidence and has coaches that have allowed him to be a field general and a decision maker. That has never been in Carr's make up. Not at Houston nor at FSU. The coaches have always been in total control of all game calling with relatively little lattitude for individual decision making.
 
infantrycak said:
You might reconsider how sure fire a loss the Washington game is--they have not looked good this preseason. 17 total points scored to 87 given up. They were so bad against the Pats the commentators were wanting to call the game early on a mercy rule.
Click to expand...

That is a great point and something that I have been thinking about. But I still haven't changed by prediction.

I have watched some of Redskin's camp on the NFL Network and a scrimmage they had with the Ravens. Their defense looked good and really fast. A good defense against David Carr really concerns me.

Washington starts off with Minnesota at home and then at Dallas on the road before coming to Houston.

We'll know by then if the preseason games for them was just a fluke.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Elway does not become the Elway we know by sitting idly waiting for instruction.
Click to expand...

I believe he might if it was his first fews months running the Denver offense.:shades:
 
Vinny said:
I think he is saying that a veteran savvy QB takes control in that situation and doesn't let the game slip away with a rookie-esque posture waiting for the coach to tell him what to do.
Click to expand...
I agree with this and believe that this is exactly what Kubiak is looking for in terms of leadership or when he said that he doesn't want to have to tell his players how to lead.

Carr needs to know this. It is what I was looking for in the game as well. Not making excuses for him but this could also be a result of the previous regime not allowing him to have any control over the offense.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
The big deal was the coach. Lets once again detail the situation. Its 3rd down with the clock running down from 35 seconds. You can not call time out, because you have no time outs left. If you spike the ball he knows its field goal time, because they are not going to go for it on 4th down in that situation. So Carr is waiting for a play to be called to hopefully take one last shot, but the problem is the coaches are calling the plays, Carr has no leave way and the coaches forget to call the play. It was extemely important not to loose the opportunity of scoring some points in that situation.

Payton Manning's call of sending the field goal team off the field would have gotten him benched by most coaches. He literally disobeyed a direct order. He has great confidence and has coaches that have allowed him to be a field general and a decision maker. That has never been in Carr's make up. Not at Houston nor at FSU. The coaches have always been in total control of all game calling with relatively little lattitude for individual decision making.
Click to expand...

If the clock ran out... and we got a delay of game, 5 yard penalty & loss of down, The popular opinion would be that Carr should've done something. Kubiak would have taken the blame, but Carr can't just sit there, and do nothing. That's like Pitts letting a CB run past him on a blitz, because the CB was not his responsibility, and the DT that was his responsibility dropped into coverage.
 
Great thread, great responces.

Bottom line, a 5 year vet should be able to tell his pro-bowl WR's "fade back corner" and take his shot. Worst case he throws it high and out.

Great oppurtunity to establish leadership missed.
 
thunderkyss said:
If the clock ran out... and we got a delay of game, 5 yard penalty & loss of down, The popular opinion would be that Carr should've done something. Kubiak would have taken the blame, but Carr can't just sit there, and do nothing. That's like Pitts letting a CB run past him on a blitz, because the CB was not his responsibility, and the DT that was his responsibility dropped into coverage.
Click to expand...
Kubiak will fall on the sword for his players . I would like to hear his thoughts after a 12 pack of Bud light .
 
LCROD said:
Great thread, great responces.

Bottom line, a 5 year vet should be able to tell his pro-bowl WR's "fade back corner" and take his shot. Worst case he throws it high and out.

Great oppurtunity to establish leadership missed.
Click to expand...

Exactly, missed opportunities are a killer.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
The only constants on offense is that Carr constantly sucks.

doug ftw
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Now, don't get all long-winded on us now, doug (for what it's worth). We always enjoy a thoughtful new perspective on the subject.:loser
 
...what do we know about David 'on the field' after 4+ yrs?

1) Carr is a slow learner, as he needs a lot of time to-not only learn something new-but to try and make it work on the field. Palmer had to ditch his playbook, and now Kubiak is 'slowing' his down.

2) Carr has to be told everything to do on the field, as he is not going to do anything he has not been told to do. If something arises-like the clock management scenario on Sunday- Carr will do nothing until he gets instructions from his HC.

3) Carr can not handle pressure of any kind.

4) Carr's favorite throw is the dump-off.

Ok-bottom line-what's all the arguement about? Carr is Carr. What you see is what you get... a QB who needs 'time to gel' in a perpetual 'roll-over' scenario that is fueled by a fan base that loves him...give the guy a break! The '$8 million dollar guy' is here to stay...'nuff said.:yahoo:

...almost forgot, saw on TV that 2 other QBs had more sacks than Carr in their 1st 4 yrs--one was Neil Lomax of the St Louis Cardinals--

345 560 61.6 4614 8.2 28 16 | 35 184 3 |

These are his 4th yr stats when he was all-pro.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Kubiak will fall on the sword for his players . I would like to hear his thoughts after a 12 pack of Bud light .
Click to expand...

As a true leader should. Then again, he better be laying it to Carr in private.
 
Texanfan4ever said:
Kaiser, do you think David should have just ignored what Kubiak told him to do, and done what he might have wanted to do? Surely you don't think that at this point, that that would have been the best decision on David's part??? Do you??? Just say shove it, Kubiak, I'm doing it my way?
Click to expand...
The thing is Kubes probably didnt say anything...Its not like he would say "hold on David, got to argue with the ref here for a moment". I have been a suporter of Carr throughtout his career here, I think he has potential, that magical word, but he does seem like he is missing something. I agree with Kaiser that it dosnt seem like he gets it all...I hope this is just getting used to the system, but after a while, he has to take the next step and truly become a leader of the offense....we're running out of excuses
 
It's pointless to say Carr should make the sorts of decisions P. Manning would. I like Carr, but his intellect does not stack up to Peyton's. There is not a more intelligent QB in the NFL. I'm 41 years old. I've been an NFL fan for a long time and I cannot remember any other QB in my lifetime as astute as Peyton. Bernie Kosar may have come the closest.

If you all will remember, when last year's coaching staff gave Carr an entire half to call his own plays, the Texans played their best offense of the season.

This is the pre-season. There are aspects of the game you are working on and there are aspects of your game you don't want regular season opponents to see yet. Here in the pre-season, Carr should be doing exactly and only what Kubiak directs him to do for the team to develop as Kubiak wants.
 
"This is the pre-season. There are aspects of the game you are working on and there are aspects of your game you don't want regular season opponents to see yet. Here in the pre-season, Carr should be doing exactly and only what Kubiak directs him to do for the team to develop as Kubiak wants."
__________________

If this is true, what does Kubiak mean when he keeps saying over and over that Carr "needs to step up" and Carr "needs to be a leader?"

IMO, this is impossible to do if Carr is on a 'leash'--maybe someone forgot to tell Gary!!??:confused:
 
thunderkyss said:
If the clock ran out... and we got a delay of game, 5 yard penalty & loss of down, The popular opinion would be that Carr should've done something. Kubiak would have taken the blame, but Carr can't just sit there, and do nothing. That's like Pitts letting a CB run past him on a blitz, because the CB was not his responsibility, and the DT that was his responsibility dropped into coverage.
Click to expand...


The situation revolved around a ruling that was cause for confusion on the sidelines. That confusion carries over to the field. There wasn't going to be any taking things into their own hands because the players didn't know what the hold-up was about at that point. They wouldn't have had that information. This idea of taking things into your own hands is completely irrational hoopla.
 
We have to remember the referees were making an annoucement during this time and had everyone confused including all the players and Kubiak because there was no reason for it. Yeah maybe Carr should have called something real quick but there was no reason for the ref to do what he did. Most cases a play would have been called but I think in the regular season the play is in there and done.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
The big deal was the coach. Lets once again detail the situation. Its 3rd down with the clock running down from 35 seconds. You can not call time out, because you have no time outs left. If you spike the ball he knows its field goal time, because they are not going to go for it on 4th down in that situation. So Carr is waiting for a play to be called to hopefully take one last shot, but the problem is the coaches are calling the plays, Carr has no leave way and the coaches forget to call the play. It was extemely important not to loose the opportunity of scoring some points in that situation.

Payton Manning's call of sending the field goal team off the field would have gotten him benched by most coaches. He literally disobeyed a direct order. He has great confidence and has coaches that have allowed him to be a field general and a decision maker. That has never been in Carr's make up. Not at Houston nor at FSU. The coaches have always been in total control of all game calling with relatively little lattitude for individual decision making.
Click to expand...


....sadddddddddddddddddddd
 
I think that it might be that Carr is so sponge-like about anything Kubiak says that he is not thinking on his own. Right now, he sees Kubes as the laeder of the team, and that is a problem.
 
Carr needs to step up and lead......that's it. This Mr. Nice Guy BS is getting old, he needs to grab his juevos and get that killer look in his eyes going or somethin'.
 
infantrycak said:
You might reconsider how sure fire a loss the Washington game is--they have not looked good this preseason. 17 total points scored to 87 given up. They were so bad against the Pats the commentators were wanting to call the game early on a mercy rule.
Click to expand...

Now... it's only pre-season but... when I was originally looking at the schedule, I was calling that one a loss given all the pre-season Skins hype. Now... I'm shifting that one over to the "we should win" column.
 
ESAD2-14 said:
Carr needs to step up and lead......that's it. This Mr. Nice Guy BS is getting old, he needs to grab his juevos and get that killer look in his eyes going or somethin'.
Click to expand...

By leading, I highly doubt that Kubiak meant that Carr should just ignore him and call his own game. Especially while it is in the newest stages of development. And Kubiak wouldn't have "taken the bullet" for Carr on that particular play if he hadn't called for the spike. Kubes doesn't come across to me as a man that would stand there and make that up to help Carr, or anyone. He calls it as he sees it, and he took that one on himself because of the confusion.

This talk about David calling his own plays is obsurd and ridiculous at this point. Let's move on.
 
Texanfan4ever said:
By leading, I highly doubt that Kubiak meant that Carr should just ignore him and call his own game.
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Nobody is asking David to ignore Kubiak. That was a perfect example for David to exert his leadership, & his grasp of the game.

He didn't....... it's no biggie. Nothing bad came of it...... we missed an opportunity to take a shot at the endzone, that's all.

By not doing anything, IMHO, it doesn't hurt David any. I just believe he missed an opportunity to say, "Hey I'm a leader of this team, I noticed something needed to be done, and I did something."
 
Ibar_Harry said:
This is from Kubiak's presser on Monday morning that is on this Web Site under Multimedia press.

(on clock-management at the end of the first half) “We definitely need to take a shot (at the endzone) right there. That was my fault. I’ll tell you what took place is, I felt like they called two time outs back-to-back (which should be a delay of game penalty), and I told the official that. As we discussed that the clock continued to move. They didn’t reset the clock, and after it was all said and done he told me that he thought it was a mistake. But that doesn’t matter. We have to handle mistakes. That’s our job. I should have seen it moving. I hurt (QB) David (Carr) there by not getting the call in quick enough. We did not have a time out, and we didn’t want to get caught on the field. So we have to handle the clock better. That was my fault.”

People were chidding David for this play during the game on Sunday. It was almost non-stop. I find it interesting to hear what the real story was. Again its like so much else going on out there. People think they know what Kubiak is doing and calling. If you go read the presser you will find out that Carr was suppose to dump it off as much as he did. We are using the short pass like a running game.

For the die hards out there we do have a team, they are coming along fine, and yes I think we are going to surprise a lot of people. Before the season everyone were shouting whoa is me with respect to defense. Its not what a lot of people thought it would be, its far better. The offense will be just fine once we get some more time. The only constants on offense are Wiegert(maybe not even him), Carr, AJ, and Pitts. The rest of the offense is new when you consider who was playing last year. Just give it a little more time and we will be having fun.

Without us making a couple of penalties on Sunday, Denver looses the game. Hey, the one penalty on special teams went from a field goal to a touchdown. That's 4 points and we lost by 3. I like our team and I like how they are coming along and how they are being treated by the coaching staff. Remember, Kubiak looks at film and has a different perception of what is happeing out on the field. I tend to like to listen to what he says. I have a bit of confidence in him as a coach.
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could not agree more. Nothing is pissing me off more than hearing everyone say how they thought we should have drafted reggie bush. Whether our improved D is a direct effect from Mario or not, who cares, we have a greatly approved D. I don't care about big names and exciting plays, I care about whether there is a W or an L next to our name in the monday morning paper. 50% of the teams have a W, 50% of the teams have an L, I want to be on the other side this year.
 
By leading, I highly doubt that Kubiak meant that Carr should just ignore him and call his own game. Especially while it is in the newest stages of development. And Kubiak wouldn't have "taken the bullet" for Carr on that particular play if he hadn't called for the spike. Kubes doesn't come across to me as a man that would stand there and make that up to help Carr, or anyone. He calls it as he sees it, and he took that one on himself because of the confusion.

This talk about David calling his own plays is obsurd and ridiculous at this point. Let's move on.
Click to expand...

Was'nt talking about him calling his own game or just referring to one play. I am talking about the past 4 years he has had to establish himself as the leader of the offense and even more, the Texans as a whole. Maybe it's not his personality to lead, if that's the case I hope he got a decent degree from FSU. I wish him nothing but the best, and I hope he leads us to the playoffs time and time again.
 
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