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Travis Johnson v. Derrick Johnson

Derrick Johnson all the way baby. Can't miss with a Longhorn. Bring him to Houston with Roy Williams and Cedric Benson. Then go out and draft Vince Young. I know it'll never happen.
 
Huge said:
I didn't realize Wong had that many tackles.

That gives him more than Chad Brown or Monty Biesel (Patriots' ILBs), more than James Farrior or Larry Foote (Steelers' ILBs) and more than Derek Smith or Jeff Ulbrich (49ers' ILBs).

That's pretty good company.
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So Derrick Johnson is better than all those you mentioned? I am not sure where you are going with this.
 
SESupergenius said:
So Derrick Johnson is better than all those you mentioned? I am not sure where you are going with this.
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Nowhere really...just wasn't aware that Wong's standing was that good among the other ILBs around the league.

Although one could argue that Wong's stats are a reflection of the job that's being done up front by guys like Walker, Payne, and yes...Travis Johnson.
 
Huge said:
Nowhere really...just wasn't aware that Wong's standing was that good among the other ILBs around the league.

Although one could argue that Wong's stats are a reflection of the job that's being done up front by guys like Walker, Payne, and yes...Travis Johnson.
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well considering we've scored 14 points in 2 games, yea I'd say that has a lot to do with it, whereas KC's offense is failry good and keeps the defense off the field longer.
 
Just thought I might point out, that KC has been rotating into a 3-4 defense off and on against the broncos. But no DJ is not a good fit.
 
caddy said:
What a difference he made with the Chiefs defence... LMAO ... Broncos ate them up, they looke like a high school unit. Talk about a bad beat down..... :texflag:
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The chiefs looked like the texans today. Everything went wrong with them. DJ didnt play well with 5 tackles, but he did get another FF giving him 2 for the season.
 
ComstockLode said:
The chiefs looked like the texans today. Everything went wrong with them. DJ didnt play well with 5 tackles, but he did get another FF giving him 2 for the season.
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He is still more productive than Babin and Peek put together... :brickwall
 
Porky said:
IMO, Gary Walker played the best game by a dlineman. True, statistally it may not be a fair comparison. How about we just put those numbers in place of Moron Greenjeans.

Greenwood:

T-A SCK INT FF
2-3 0.0 0 0

Another brilliant offseason move by CC and Company. The Chickens are coming home to roost.
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Well the chicken (P-Burnt) got put on the roost. The other guys just seem confused and overmatched most of the time. Jack Lambert, Jack Ham and Mel Blount need to be brought in and show this D how to be aggressive, intimidating and just plain mean. I want to see someone other than Peek and D-ROB knocking the snot out of people.
 
The chiefs looked like the texans today. Everything went wrong with them. DJ didnt play well with 5 tackles, but he did get another FF giving him 2 for the season.
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Where did you get your stats from? DJ had 2 tackles and 2 assists last night, and no FF...
 
DJ probably would not have been a good Outside Backer in our 3 -4 because he was never a Defensive End in college. He never had to consistently beat an Offensive lineman to get to the QB. Both Babin and Peek were Defensive Ends, now called "tweeners" He would not have been running free like he is in the KC Defense.

Plus after 2 games you really dont have enough scouting footage on him to see his weaknesses. Granted his production is extraordinary... yea you can argue He might have been a great linebacker here... You can present statistics, facts, personal info... You can say all you want but look at the successful linebackers from the Capers D.

Greg LLoyd - Linebacker, Lamar Lathon - Former DE, Kevin Greene - Former DE, Pat Swilling - Former DE, Rickey Jackson - Former DE... Is it just me or do I see a trend?

Personally I like the TJ pick... He wasnt supposed to beat out our veterans he was brought in here to inject youth into the D-line and allow us to rest the D-line we have now, without having a huge talent level drop off. From what I have seen he has done that. I don't see him getting manhandled by linemen, In fact I have seen him push his lineman into the backfield ona few occasion he needs to learn how to tie up more than one O-lineman by firing into the gap between not just taking on the man.

I love how you question draft choices... the same team you critcize for drafting Babin, Joppru and TJ, Is the same ones that drafted DD, AJ, Drob.

Lots of teams passed on DJ... Do you think a lot of other teams are kicking themselves for passing on Randy Moss?, Tom Brady?, Emmitt Smith?

Heck in Philly I thought they were gonna string the eagles up for drafting McNabb instead of Ricky Williams. How did that turn out?

And for those who suggest Harrington was the correct QB choice, wasn't his job in question this year when the Lions brought in Jeff Garcia? Yea I am sure kicking myself for not drafting a guy that now has 3 big time young NFL rec. prospects, but still only puts up 110 yards. I can only imagine the success he would have here.

:violin for all you post draft critics who didnt get the player they wanted..

Question though - If DJ came here and totally sucked but TJ went elsewhere and was a monster would you still say we should have drafted DJ?
 
saw DJ on monday night- he is a monster. (seems to have spent his entire signing bonus on 'roids, but that is another matter as far as i am concerned).

casserly is a disgrace for picking TJ over DJ.
 
lucky13 said:
saw DJ on monday night- he is a monster. (seems to have spent his entire signing bonus on 'roids, but that is another matter as far as i am concerned).

casserly is a disgrace for picking TJ over DJ.
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Seriously can we just drop this subject. We all know capers and casserly have made bad decisions. Can you at least wait until TJ gets a chance to show what he can do.
 
Bubbajwp said:
Seriously can we just drop this subject. We all know capers and casserly have made bad decisions. Can you at least wait until TJ gets a chance to show what he can do.
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Not going to happen, Bubba. Most aren't smart enough to realize production isn't always translated by stats.

By their logic, teams would be better off playing 7 linebackers instead of having 3/4 widebodies taking up salary space w/o contributing anything.

'Cause it's the linebackers that get all the tackles, sacks, etc.

Nice try though. Just don't hold your breath for results.
 
How do you know DJ wouldn't have made a good 3-4 linebacker? Here ya go, here's a few LB's in college that are, wouldn't you know it, LB's on an NFL team using the 3-4 system:

James Farrior - LB
Jamie Sharper - LB
Larry Foote - LB
Earl Holmes - LB
Chad Brown - LB
Ben Leber - LB
Randall Godfrey - LB

They were NOT tweeners, but were solid linebackers. Whoever said DJ was to be draft just for his blitzing? The cover can cover from end to end with good speed....ala Greenwood. Imagine a linebacking corps of
Wong, DJ, Sharper and Haggans or
Boulware, Bell, Sharper and DJ, or
Wong, Bell, Sharper, and DJ or
Boulware, Bell, DJ, Haggans if you want to revamp the LB corps.

Please, the possibilities were endless. All the while we had our starting DL set, Walker, Payne, Smith. that's a lot of money tied up into the line already, too much if you ask me since our LB's are the featured set. Then you add first round TJ to the mix and it looks like it could break the bank. Instead of gutting our team of veterans we should have brought in more talented players from the draft and used free agency to our fullest advantage. Bring back Sharper, Glenn, Wright and McCree, trade up for Luis Castillo( a pick I was big on before the draft and rated better than TJ) with our 2nd and 3rd rounds picks instead of P-Burnt, sign Bell, Boulware or Haggans instead of Greenwoods and our defense would have been very solid. With all bumblings in the off season our defense is worse than last year.
 
Whoever said DJ would/should be drafted because of his blitzing has nothing to base it on. Oh, he can run a fast 40? He must be a good blitzer.

DJ finished his career at Texas with almost as many INTs (9) than sacks (10.5). I don't see how that translates into "great blitzer".

The biggest reason why he didn't blitz often (and the same reason why he's not a fit for a 3-4 defense) was his style of play. It has nothing to do with size so hold all "But he's 6'3, 246...that's bigger than Peek". Just about every scout said he had a bad habit of running around blockers. And they were right. Not to say he wasn't effective at it...but he did do it. You can get by with doing that in college and to a lesser extent, this league.

But line him up outside in a 3-4 and let him go up against OTs without a DE on the end or put him inside where he gets to deal with OG's not occupied by the front 3? It's not a fit.

If you disagree, fine. But don't pretend you have presented an argument based on his first 3 games that proves you're correct.
 
I think it is more of a reach to draft a de out of college and make a tweener out of him. You don't know how he will adjust to the lb position. With DJ at least you are drafting a lb to play lb.
 
I looked at DJ to play more the ILB than an OLB. I don't see anywhere really that he was touted as the speed pass rusher that opponents to us not drafting him make him out to be. Could he not have easily replaced Foreman? Good God Yes. Do we still need pass rushing LB's? Yeppers. Ray Lewis doesn't blitz the QB often, he's more of a speed tackler and in the field kind of guy, he is an ILB/MLB. They are just different positions. In fact all positions in the 3-4 are not the same and your really can't compare them too much. To say that DJ was not a fit in the 3-4 is not a good term to use, is he not a good fit for the 3-4 OLB? There I would say no, but definitely he would make a good 3-4 ILB. State your case otherwise.
 
Yeah, that's a good point. I've been saying he's "not a fit" in the 3-4. What I should've been saying is that he's a "better fit" in a 4-3.

And while he could've easily replaced Foreman, so could a ton of other LBs that weren't drafted in the first round.
 
The combination IMO of TJ and Greenwood is not as good as DJ and a possible player we could have traded up in Castillo. The jist of it is that DJ would be an immediate starter taking over Foreman's slot and Castillo would have been groomed and added depth.
 
someone please explain to me why he wouldnt work as a 3-4 ILB. he's too fast? tackles too well? too big? made an immediate impact?

tj's getting pushed around by a single blocker.
 
Scooter said:
someone please explain to me why he wouldnt work as a 3-4 ILB. he's too fast? tackles too well? too big? made an immediate impact?

tj's getting pushed around by a single blocker.
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Try he isnt a pass rusher. Which is the biggest problem on our Defense. DJ wouldnt help with this. TJ will its simple.
 
Scooter said:
someone please explain to me why he wouldnt work as a 3-4 ILB. he's too fast? tackles too well? too big? made an immediate impact?

tj's getting pushed around by a single blocker.
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You'll get a hundred excuses before the night is over. He's not big enough, he's not a pass rusher, etc.

Bottom line - Another personnel mistake by the organization.
 
the wonger need food said:
You'll get a hundred excuses before the night is over. He's not big enough, he's not a pass rusher, etc.

Bottom line - Another personnel mistake by the organization.
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How about we just completly forget about it the draft is long gone. I think I speak for most Texans fans when I say im sick and tired of hearing you B!t3h about DJ and Carr and how were the worst team ever. Didnt you mom every tell you if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all.
 
Bubbajwp said:
Try he isnt a pass rusher. Which is the biggest problem on our Defense. DJ wouldnt help with this. TJ will its simple.
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made no sense whatsoever. TJ's not a pass rusher, cant do his job of tying up multiple blockers, and cant even get leverage against a single blocker. how is he helping?

DJ's bigger than greenwood, faster, and more of a playmaker. we've yet to force a turnover on the entire defense and dj's recorded 2 himself. i'm really having trouble finding the arguement. so many folks dogged the dj backers because there was no chance he'd fall to us, now they're saying he doesnt fit the system. i can see it now ... he becomes a free agent down the line and yall say we shouldnt look at him because he smells funny.
 
Scooter said:
made no sense whatsoever. TJ's not a pass rusher, cant do his job of tying up multiple blockers, and cant even get leverage against a single blocker. how is he helping?

DJ's bigger than greenwood, faster, and more of a playmaker. we've yet to force a turnover on the entire defense and dj's recorded 2 himself. i'm really having trouble finding the arguement. so many folks dogged the dj backers because there was no chance he'd fall to us, now they're saying he doesnt fit the system. i can see it now ... he becomes a free agent down the line and yall say we shouldnt look at him because he smells funny.
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Ok well go with this scenario. We dont sign Greenwood because we want DJ. All the other teams know we want DJ so they trade ahead of us and take him wich means D Polk is starting. Then Gary walker gets hurt and Ioane starts.
Just because TJ doesnt put up numbers doesnt mean he isnt doing what he gets paid to do. The war is won in the trenches. If we didnt draft a dline this year when would we. G Walker gets hurt every year and will be retiring soon. Payne is well past his prime and will be retiring in a few years. R Smith isnt exactly young. We already have a young group of linebackers.
 
you dont force drafts or select lesser talent, if it be home grown or whatever. Casserly ****'ed up point blank, heck I would much rather have Pollack. you can still get optimum value on the D-Line in the latter rounds ala the O-Line. was'nt Chris Canty a 4th rd pick of the Cowboys?

the point is this draft set the Texans back at least one year which may manage to install an entirely new regime because the 5 year plan has failed :homer:
 
Bubbajwp said:
If we didnt draft a dline this year when would we. G Walker gets hurt every year and will be retiring soon. Payne is well past his prime and will be retiring in a few years. R Smith isnt exactly young. We already have a young group of linebackers.
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The D-line should have been addressed in the offseason or through the draft, not necessarily with our 1st pick. We could have drafted DJ and drafted a DL in the 2nd round or traded up to get a player who has equal or better talent than TJ. I would mind us having traded up to get Castillo, who's stock fell because of bogus drug rumors, instead of trading up to get ***cough*** ***cough*** P-Burnt.
 
Youngstown Colt said:
I didn't catch what was so bogus about admitted steroid use.
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He took a banned substance but not an anabolic steroid. You won't find what he took on the Federal illegal scheduled drug table. You can find it at GNC though.
 
I think my issue is not with the drafting of TJ (ok so some of it is.)

My issue more lies with the Texans logic that was put out there of why we didn't draft DJ. Because he played in a 4-3 in college he couldn't play in a 3-4 in the pros. But then we draft a DT who played in a 4-3?

You can argue that DT is different but a DT in a 4-3 plays very different scheme than a DT in a 3-4 so its all relative.

A playmaker is a playmaker and a football player is a football player. Coach him up in your system and LET HIM GO!!!!

Oh well maybe our NEW staff next year will do something sensible with the #1 pick in the draft.
 
Very few Colleges run a 3-4 and he is supposed to supply some pass rushing skills from the DT position...although he needs more time to get used to the league. If we only drafted players from the systems we run we would only draft from a few teams.
 
Just so you non beleivers can test it. Buy Madden 06. Create a 99 Overall DT. Throw him on the line. Then watch the stats after each game and notice he doesnt place in the top 50 the whole season for tackles/sacks/fumble recovery average, but yet he still makes the Pro-Bowl. My Point is like what has already been said, his job is to tie up linemen and open opportunities for the LB's.
 
We aren't arguing over TJ's job.

What most of us are saying is why pass up a proven playmaker.....NCAA RECORD FOR FORCED FUMBLES.

We need a playmaker in our front seven and yet when an opportunity to get one....we pass up b/c he played in a 4-3.....yet draft a DT who played in one as well. :brickwall
 
Gino Toretta was a proven playmaker in college as well.

Should I run down a list of other examples of players that excelled in college but proved that doesn't guarantee anything in the NFL?
 
Texas said:
Just so you non beleivers can test it. Buy Madden 06. Create a 99 Overall DT. Throw him on the line. Then watch the stats after each game and notice he doesnt place in the top 50 the whole season for tackles/sacks/fumble recovery average, but yet he still makes the Pro-Bowl. My Point is like what has already been said, his job is to tie up linemen and open opportunities for the LB's.
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There's an awesome way to get a real life indication on a player's impact...
 
Texas_Thrill said:
My issue more lies with the Texans logic that was put out there of why we didn't draft DJ. Because he played in a 4-3 in college he couldn't play in a 3-4 in the pros. But then we draft a DT who played in a 4-3?
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That wasn't the logic. At Texas DJ was asked to drop into coverage more than pass rush. When he did get sacks etc. it was as a blitzer rather than a pass rusher--something Casserly makes a big distinction on. DJ was also noted to have trouble getting off blocks which spells more trouble in a 3-4 system than a 4-3 where there is an extra guy to soak up blocks in front. Basically because of the lack of pass rushing moves he wouldn't have played OLB here. At ILB the supposedly concerned with his ability to stop the run. I totally understood the concerns about DJ playing OLB here. Where the Texans lost me was picking up Greenwood who seems like a coverage speed not necessarily physical run stuffing ILB--hmmm sounds like DJ. But anyway the logic wasn't just that he came from a 4-3--they thought it out or mis-thought it out much more than that.
 
caddy said:
What's his face... has really turned around the Chief's defence... Gee just 60+points, given up in last two games.. Wow did we miss having what's his face, how will we live. :texflag:
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...wow, only one player on KC's defense instead of eleven
 
wrestler4life said:
The freaking draft has happened already! Why are we still contemplating this?
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Derrick Johnson is a possibly one of the best players at his position in just his rookie season. At the same position the Texans sorely need playmakers.

I don't think anything is being contemplated. The point is... management made another personnel mistake. One of many.
 
Wong (3 games) 26 total tackles, 9 assists, 1 sack

DJ (4 games) 31 total tackles, 4 assists, 1 sack, 1 fumble recovery

I don't know how this organization can go on without DJ...Do some realize we had our LB's in place before the draft? We had already signed Greenwood and do you think anyone anywhere thought that DJ would have fallen to us?
 
the wonger need food said:
Derrick Johnson is a possibly one of the best players at his position in just his rookie season. At the same position the Texans sorely need playmakers.

I don't think anything is being contemplated. The point is... management made another personnel mistake. One of many.
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I think managment's intentions were to draft a playmaker along the defensive line (where a playmaker was needed more than at LB). When you compare Derrick's to Travis' stats coming out of college, I think they accomplished that (because before the draft, it's all you have to go on)...

Derrick - 19 TFLs, 2 sacks, 8 QB hits
Travis - 18 TFLs, 2.5 sacks, 12 QB hits

Now if you want to label Travis a "mistake" after 3 games, by all means do so.
 
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