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Trade down IS only option.
- Thread starter Dime
- Start date
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
Dime said:
i 100% agree with you, we have D. Davis, D. Carr, now we need guys up front to make them 2 stars better.
Goldeagle
Veteran
Amen... Kubiak does not need a "STAR" running back who did not show up in the game of his life. We dont need to draft a glorified Punt returner or Eric Metcalf with our first pick. Kubiak turns average Running backs into stars
If we are not going to take advantage of the O-line talent in this draft then might as well Draft Young; He is faster and more athletic than Carr.
If we are not going to take advantage of the O-line talent in this draft then might as well Draft Young; He is faster and more athletic than Carr.
TexanSam
Hall of Fame
It seems that many of you all think that the draft is our only option to improve this team. There are 2 months of free agency between the Super Bowl and the draft. We can sign a good offensive lineman. We can find a good defensive end. The draft isn't the only way to rebuild a team.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
disturbedtexansfan513 said:
and u think 1 OL guy is gonna fix all our problems we need atleast 2 MAYBE IF POSSIBLE 3. Pitts is good and well thats about it..........
FILO_girl said:I have been in agreement with this philosophy. But we are drowned out by the Prospect of the Week buzz. We are the minority.
I am just getting tired of people who talk Bush and Young like they are already on the team when EVERYONE in the league knows what are NEEDS are. Our NEEDS are NOT QB or RB! We need many positions, and the first on the list is Online needs. Others deal will Defense from DT/DE for replacements to ILB. Many others, but not RB or QB.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
TexanSam said:
i wouldnt say we're rebuilding our team just making improvments and adjustments.
TexanSam said:
Less you forget that many teams need additional good O-line personel. The only reason a good o-lineman ends up in FA is because he cost to much or to free cap. We already are not having cap issues, but have over-paid several positions where we can run into cap trouble real quick if we arent not paying attention, and cant afford to many of those FA O-line.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
Dime said:
true look at pace last season.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Trade down is definitely an option. I would not come unglued if the Texans traded down. I personally wouldn't do it if I was making the call but that's just me. I'd take Bush in the first.
Just a question Dime. How many members of the offensive line would you replace this offseason? I don't need a big scenario or anything, I just want a number. 2? 3? Just asking.
Just a question Dime. How many members of the offensive line would you replace this offseason? I don't need a big scenario or anything, I just want a number. 2? 3? Just asking.
Hervoyel said:
I feel we need quite a bit of new personnel in there. I want at least 3-4 new online from FA and draft in there to compete with what we currently have. I would hope 2 or 3 might be able to out-perform what we have right now. I know of gel-time for the O-line, but I feel we really need a LT bad. Pitts does ok, but I would rather have Pitts inside. Also, I want those online to give 'hope' to Carr on protecting his backside. Mental games have to be horrible for Carr to manage the field and have it in the back of his mind that he has a colander for a oline.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
drew H, seemed to do ok at center when he was playing in his 2 games, cause mckinney just dont cut it, pitts i mean the best we got right now, lets trade our #1 get some extra picks and try to get enough talent where carr dont have to run for his life every play.
edo783
Hall of Fame
Dime said:
I agree fully. As you have stated EVERYONE knows what the problems are, but look at the posts here. Lots of folks using all sort of rationalizations to NOT do what is needed. It's a bit like the fat kid in front of the dessert counter. He knows it's not the RIGHT thing, but OH, how he WANTS to have that big chunk of cake and takes it. Instant satisfaction and long term self recrimination about doing it and not doing what was needing to be done.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
You do not address a NEED with a #1 overall pick. It's BPA on your war room board.Dime said:
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
Big B Texan Fan said:
maybe if you have a decent team without issues, but we got O(L)NE major issue buddy.
Napa Auto Parts
Veteran
the Thing about wanting to draft and O-line all of you say Kubiak is a magician and he is gonna fix all our offensive problems i dont remember the last time denver drafted and O-line in the 1st round. it just dumb how some people contradict their own post. hell lets not take the best player with the most upside V.Young we have carr so what if he has failed so far personally i wouldnt mind the trade down but Vince is special and im going to hate it when i see him lead a team other than the texans to a super bowl.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
Napa Auto Parts said:the Thing about wanting to draft and O-line all of you say Kubiak is a magician and he is gonna fix all our offensive problems i dont remember the last time denver drafted and O-line in the 1st round. it just dumb how some people contradict their own post. hell lets not take the best player with the most upside V.Young we have carr so what if he has failed so far personally i wouldnt mind the trade down but Vince is special and im going to hate it when i see him lead a team other than the texans to a super bowl.
ok i'm sorry you think he can come in and make all our OL suddenly pro bowlers ???
have u seen these guys play ?Napa Auto Parts said:the Thing about wanting to draft and O-line all of you say Kubiak is a magician and he is gonna fix all our offensive problems i dont remember the last time denver drafted and O-line in the 1st round. it just dumb how some people contradict their own post. hell lets not take the best player with the most upside V.Young we have carr so what if he has failed so far personally i wouldnt mind the trade down but Vince is special and im going to hate it when i see him lead a team other than the texans to a super bowl.
I dont care if a team that he or bush happens to make it to the superbowl. They probably have a NEED at rb or qb. We dont. We have a many needs and we need to address those! Period. I would love to have Young or Bush, seriously... but we cant right now. We have to much else we need. Oh... and just because Denver has had luck with O-line, doesnt not me we are in that position.
Napa Auto Parts
Veteran
TexansTrueFan said:ok i'm sorry you think he can come in and make all our OL suddenly pro bowlers ???
Yes and i ask when was the last time they wasted a 1st rounder on and O-line Player?
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
hmm 1843, hell i dunno so u saying they could of made victor riley a good OL player ? ok well lets just see if they do what ur suggesting ? i gurantee u casserly/mcnair wont allow that.
Napa Auto Parts
Veteran
TexansTrueFan said:
No im suggesting they could made Victor Riley a Pro Bowler
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
Napa Auto Parts said:No im suggesting they could made Victor Riley a Pro Bowler
ok whatever u think its cool.
even though that ones kinda out there.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
Dime said:
thank u that was my whole point
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
THAT'S WHAT I SAID, DID YOU EVEN READ MY POST.Dime said:
IT SAID BPA WITH #1 PICK, NEEDS LATER BASICALLY.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
Big B Texan Fan said:
u misunderstood him "i think"
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
lordy lordy lordy 
sometimes this board makes me wonder if 
sometimes this board makes me wonder if Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
OK, that makes a little more sense but you did not mention trading down in your response to so i did not catch it.Dime said:
I don't like trading pix cuz you turn 1 potential bust into many.
And casserly trading expertise for us with day one pix have all nearly blown up in our face or burned holes in his pockets and get used pre-maturely
The raiders rd 2 that we had the season after the crumbled the season after they went to the SB, we burned that one on Hollings.
Moved up to get Babin and gave up way too much to get him. A 2nd, 3rd, 4th, an swapped pix in the 5th with a division rival.
One of the pix we used to get P-Buch was the 3rd rd'r we bamboozled out of the cowboys for henson. Al returnred the favor to Jerry. Probably got a fruit basket out of it.
Let me see what else, oh, the trade down to get TJ and the Saints 3rd rd'r. We'll see on that but don't be surprised if we trade back in the early 2nd rd by giving a team both of those 3rd's. Coud be for a marquee TE that slips.
Sorry to ramble, just don't like CC's trax record with day 1 trades. He's gotten an F so far.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
Big B Texan Fan said:
no its more like if you roll 6 dice you have a better chance on having more land on 5 than if you roll 2 dice. Good Metaphor huh
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Dime said:
I think everyone agrees that we need to improve the Oline. That is a hard position to gain quality play at in a short time without slowly growing up players in our system and cherry picking key FA. Some thoughts on the trade down thinging to get lots of Olinemen.
1. More picks don't necessarily mean immediate improvement. See e.g.Vinny's link discussing the Ricky Williams blockbuster trade and what little came of it.
2. Rookies make mistakes. A bunch of rookie Olinemen drafted at the same time will have a hard time developing.
3. Fortunately this draft is deep in Olinemen. We can use some other picks to help.
4. I would be more interested in players versus just picks. We have difficulties attracting FA without overpaying.
5. As a side issue on this, fans in the stand = more wins. Home field loudness matters. If the public isn't convinced we didn't get enough value for the 1st pick, ticket brokers will be selling their tickets again next season at half price.
6. Our team still needs more playmakers. It is my belief that none of the Olinemen in this draft are top 10 kinda guys.
7. If we trade down, I think maybe the best thing we get outta of a trade would not be a lineman, but rather some more defensive help. Our experienced guys have been kinda dinged, I don't know how Wong is gonna come back after his knee stuff, and we are thin thin thin on the defense--lots of player playing hard, but not as many playmakers as you would like. I think TJ will continue to develop, but we need to grow some more defensive playmakers--hard to get in FA.
Ultimately, there is a lot of time between now and the draft. A lot of hype and a lot of evaluation to do. There are various free agents that may be available. So basically, we don't need to make a decision on anything in January, before we have a coach, an offensive and defensive scheme and all that.
(Though the Carr bonus situation does sorta complicate things sooner v. later).
dml923
Practice Squad
i would agree on trading down but could they pass up on players with a high possiblity on being hall of famers. as well as if we dont pick up one of them then our D would have trouble becasue of the chance one goes to the titans and probally would destroy our D. Also the texans need fan support. However the texans have no need for young, leinhart and bush so trading down for some more picks would be the better descision.
Dime said:
I know it is tempting to just focus on that Oline and bring in 5-6 rookies..overload the Oline with players and make sure we come out of this offseason with an improved Oline. But I really dont think that is the best move we can make at this point.
We dont need to take more than a couple Olinemen on the first day. It just isnt necessary. With ONE good FA selection we will have 3 spots on our Oline taken care of... maybe more. Dbrickshaw is no more a "sure thing" than Justice or McNeil or Scott.. and we can pretty much guarantee that one of the top OTs will slide to the second. Even if they didnt though.. Tackle isnt our greatest need. Pitts at LT is a good fit..he is talented.. we need interior olinemen more than tackles..and good interior linemen can be had in the 2-5th rounds.
If we DID trade down.. I would be looking for us to use our first pick(s) on defense..not offense.. because we can get that tackle or top guard at the #33 pick.
so really... I think we are fine not trading down, getting ourselves a top prospect.. and filling needs in the middle rounds.
michaelm said:
Thank you. I was scrolling through this thing and wondering when someone was going to point out the fact that the Denver offensive scheme will make some of these guys better. Or should I say, it will put them in position to be better players.
I'm not saying that Fred Weary or Seth Wand will be going to the pro bowl any time soon, but I see a lot of offensive line assessments being made by many fans in the context of the legacy scheme.
It's not going to look anything like what we've been seeing, even with the same personnel. I've been ranting for two years about how if you drop Tom Moore in here, all of a sudden our line isn't so bad after all. The same holds true for Denver's attack. Although there are limits to my argument ....like Todd Wade having to take more than one step in any direction other than forward....(good thing our GM tied him up with that $10 million dollar signing bonus and that multi-million dollar contract through '09). Guess that was Capers fault.... but I digresssss
Denver runs that inside outside zone stuff with a lot of bootleg play action. Defenses just can't rush to a point five yards behind the line of scrimmage against that scheme like they can against an archaic and unimaginitive offensive attack like the Texans used to run.
There's also a lot of talk in this thread about trading down and picking up several more draft picks. The Texans already have eight picks and there's this thing called the rookie pool that you can't exceed for purposes of the salary cap, plus the fact that you can only prorate new contracts 4 years now since there's no CBA extension. This means that rookie contracts have to be loaded up more and more in their second year because their first year base salaries are set and you can't prorate bonus out five or six years any more. Meaning, if you load up on low first rounders and second or even third rounders you can get yourself in a pickle pretty quickly salary cap wise by taking on too many of these higher round rookie contracts.
Spoda
Waterboy
wait this thread is ridiculous!! the fact that we already have a decent QB and HB are not important...taking a tweener scat back or even better a QB from the houston area is what is most important..i mean this message board hasn't waivered a bit...bush bush bush bush bush bush..oh wait then there was the rose bowl...VY VY VY VY VY VY VY!!! too bad theres not another bowl game, or better yet too bad lienhart isn't from katy or something..then whatever would we do?
trade the pick!! it is the most valuable pick maybe ever!!!!!
trade the pick!! it is the most valuable pick maybe ever!!!!!
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
aj. said:
I did not know that. Very interesting and very important tidbit when trading down for more picks is being considered.
Agreed. Although I'm not sold on Carr and I'd love to see Vince in a Texan's uniform, the team just has so many needs that go beyond QB. And drafting a RB isn't going to help us much either.
We need to focus on OL, defense, and also pick up a TE.
Would love to swing a deal that gets AJ Hawk and Michael Huff. Then pick up a TE in 2nd round.
We need to focus on OL, defense, and also pick up a TE.
Would love to swing a deal that gets AJ Hawk and Michael Huff. Then pick up a TE in 2nd round.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Despite a still lingering hangover from trading up for Babin, I would be OPEN to the possiblity of TRADING UP not trading down, specificly if we picked Vince Young with that 1st pick I would really go after Jonathan Scott his tackle from UT. in this new up and coming Kubes scheme I see the need for one more tackle to line-up with Pitts to wall-off the corners letting the inside blocking scheme rotate amongst the guards & Center.
I don't see Scott lasting past the Cowboys pick & just like last year I fear they are gonna draft my guy before the Texans could :brickwall
I don't see Scott lasting past the Cowboys pick & just like last year I fear they are gonna draft my guy before the Texans could :brickwall