STEEL BLUE TEXANS
Hall of Fame
We need to wait until at least 2010 before we can decide whether or not David Carr is the answer at QB for this team. He will be playing in his second offensive scheme in 6 years. Give him time. 
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- Thread starter swoldier
- Start date
Battle Red Flash
Waterboy
Personally, I like it. I've liked A.P. since he was a freshman. I would be just as happy to trade back for two picks. But, if we take Pete first, then lean toward a safety, corner, or LB next. Heck, Texans need everything but FB and TE now.
Sage, Andre, and Peterson. It ain't the triplets, but it would be the best we ever had.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Haha no that was just love for David Carr, It would have been nice to have chosen Julius Peppers in that draft though huh?
IMO, his value (a scat-back/slot receiver who is quick and can catch out of the backfield/return kicks, etc) could be matched by a 2nd or 3rd round RB on any given year.
And that is exactly how Maurice Jones Drew was valued. Same as DD when he came out of college.
R
real
Guest
What I meant was that speculation is rampant in all team sports about how player A fits with team B....It is up to the respective coaches to find a system that suits his team, and the players on it....Just like N.O has done...
.
Again...This is something that can be debated for ever....We could say the same thing about our QB situation here in Houston...
C'mon Vinny, get real ! Chris Taylor got 99 yards rushing (and Bush got what ? 55 yardes rushing in that game), and Taylor also got a cute little TD around the end after he bounced outside just like your west coast celebrity did, and he's an undrafted FA ! Oh, and we got another rookie back who I believe also had a 100+ yard game. He was a 6ht rounder as I recall. Now I concede that neither of our rookie backs is as "talented" as Sir Reggie, though both are more productive.
R
real
Guest
Yeah and since Dayne is going to be here forever.....
Like I said...He'd probably be used the same way wherever he went...
He's on the field more than Duece....And he'd be on the field more than Dayne or whoever the other back was....
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Oh, no doubt in my mind that N.O. made a great decision with their choice and it has worked out well for them...I just don't think it would be the same story if he were drafted by us.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
But what helps him out so much and is probably alot of the reason for his success in NO is that he has Deuce. Deuce bangs up the defense and usually gets a decent amount of yardage per carry (something you would expect your regular running back to do). Reggie provides a great change of pace. But we don't have anyone like Deuce to help him like N.O. does.
dirty steve
Veteran
in all fairness Cleveland had little to play for and had even less to play with. while taylor's 100-yard game is encouraging, it doesnt really give me the feeling that our RB situation is in good hands with him and ron dayne. if a playmaker like peterson is there at #8 we should be in no way thinking of passing on him because we have ron dayne and chris taylor shoring up the RB situation.
R
real
Guest
You're going to have to tell me what your defenition of "productive" is...
R
real
Guest
That's why we have free-agency, and drafts...It kind of gives you a choice on how to build your team...
You don't shy away from players with elite level talent because you are afraid they won't fit your system...Grab said player, and change your system a little to fit that player...
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Well duh, who doesn't want a hall of fame running back?
What I find funny about his whole deal is that our fans scream for patience from our own fan base stating that it takes Carr and Mario years and years to find their games...but if Bush doesn't light up the league in year one he is horrible pick. This stuff never ceases to amaze me.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Why? You thinking maybe there's a workout warrior out there that the Texans might fall in love with?
It's not like it's never happened before, I'll give you that. The Texans have always loved their "measurables".
The Combine is great and you find out a lot about these young men there. I don't think it's as important as what they did on the football field though.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Yea, I agree with all of this post.
That's true but I would imagine that works alot better when you already have a good running back and you draft a guy like Bush. Not so sure it would work the other way around. How much money are you going to pay this free agent after already putting so much money in Bush? Seems like that running back would have to choose our team (if we had Bush) over other teams that would probably be offering him more money. IMO Deuce won't be staying there for too long...N.O. just will not have enough money to satisfy the both of them...and even if they do that's alot of money to have invested in your running back position.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Agreed. Did you see Mario Williams in college? Teams RARELY even ran the ball to his side. Even the dominant running teams that played NC State rarely ran to his side. He dominated lineman play after play. Measurables were not all that got Mario to the #1 selection. I dont know if you are saying that Mario was the "workout warrior" but I have heard people say that about him before. I think the only reason people say that is because they saw Reggie Bush play that whole year and never saw (or rarely saw) Mario.
tulexan
Hall of Fame
Deuce has an 8 year $50 million contract. He is making more than enough money.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
phuleeeeze, he padded his stats against the sisters of the poor and he wasn't even the best defender on his team. Lawson was. Mario wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardi Throphy...that's the award for the best linemen of the nation.
AustinJB
Rookie
Okay, I see your point w/ that...of course everyone wants a Hall of Fame RB. Maybe I didn't explain well enough.I just don't see Bush as ever being close to the type of backs that I mentioned.
I see Bush as being a Brian Westbrook type of back. I just don't think that is worth what the Saints gave him...or what we would have had to give him. Obviously the Texans FO didn't either. Judging by their talent evaluation and the great production that we got out of the draft as a whole, I trust their judgement for the time being.
Obviously, Westbrook stepped up his game in the playoffs and is a very crucial part of the Eagles offense. However, I doubt Westbrook will ever be a Hall of Fame type back and is not considered a workload back. As I mentioned in my previous post, this type of back can be successful in the right system, but that is just not my personal preference for a running back style.
IMO, Bush will never be someone that you can hand the ball to at the end of the game to eat up the clock and protect a lead. He'll make plays w/ his speed and elusiveness occasionally, but when opposing teams are behind and they stack the box to stop the run, he is not who I would want in my backfield.
Also, I know very well that there is the possibility that Bush could blossom into the greatest thing ever....one year doesn't make a career. However, what I've seen from him so far is exactly what I thought he would be.....and I just don't think it's worth the price.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
If you wouldn't have a Brian Westbrook on your team then I gotta question your football IQ. Westbrook is one of the biggest reason's that the Eagles went as far as they did...he is a hell of a back. Westbrook, Marshall Faulk and Bush are the same type player for the most part.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Funny how this turned into a Carr and Bush thread..
A)Peppers would have been cool here...but would he be the same dominant force he is now? i'd hopeso. Does that mean Carr would have gone to carolina or a different team? I think its safe to say there is a 100% chance he would have done better elsewhere...what if he did completely awesome...we'd look like fools.
B)Reggie Bush is a playmaker..but we've come to find out that he doesn't get them every game like he did in college. He'll have that 25 yd gain from nothing....then the TD run was nice. The 6 yd loss wasn't nice at all and he has a few of those trying to make those big plays. That hit on the 2nd play of the game wasn't nice ..but a hell of a hit. If bush were here in houston that would have happend proabably 8 times this season and he'd have a short career. That fumble at the end of the game wasnt nice that almost lost it for the saints...but i will admit any back could have dropped it...although it was a nice pitch.
C)I don't really understand the Vince Young pick at #1 anyways besides the fact that he was the 'hometown kid'. that shouldn't make you the number 1 overall. He wasn't even rated as the #1 QB last year so why would he be taken 1 overall. I think we would have been very criticized for that..but they could say he would sell tickets and jerseys. I'd be more worried about winning games and building a respectable franchise than selling jerseys. With that said he has outperformed everyone else. I'd take him 1 overall now after the fact but not before last year. hindsight is a wonderful thing.
D)Peterson is someone I wanted here...then I found out through the season how horrific our secondary and pass rush really are.
If Cleveland passes on Peterson there is a very big chance he falls to us. I would be happy if we took him...assuming J.Thomas is off the board and C.Johnson are as well.
What if Oakland waits on a QB or gets one in FA ..or carr.lol they take Calvin Johnson. Detroit takes Quinn? Thomas?...suddenly JaMarcus Russell may fall to us. I wouldn't mind picking him up and letting him sit a year behing Carr, Sage or Plummer.
If they are gone I wouldn't mind DLine. BUt would most likely prefer LaRon Landry. I started with him...likened up to Reggie Nelson but think LaRon would be my pick. It'd be nice to trade down a bit but would be fine if we took someone at 8. True we may be able to get a decent FS/CB later in the draft but thats also true about DT. I'd rather have the best FS and a good DT that can do his job.
What group would you rather have for the texans over the 06/07 drafts:
Reggie Bush and Gaines Adams or
Adrian Peterson and Mario Williams
I know I'd take peterson and williams. If you look at it that way..this doesnt look so bad..even at the spots they were picked.
but of course cleveland may take peterson...or we may pass on him if he gets to us .
A)Peppers would have been cool here...but would he be the same dominant force he is now? i'd hopeso. Does that mean Carr would have gone to carolina or a different team? I think its safe to say there is a 100% chance he would have done better elsewhere...what if he did completely awesome...we'd look like fools.
B)Reggie Bush is a playmaker..but we've come to find out that he doesn't get them every game like he did in college. He'll have that 25 yd gain from nothing....then the TD run was nice. The 6 yd loss wasn't nice at all and he has a few of those trying to make those big plays. That hit on the 2nd play of the game wasn't nice ..but a hell of a hit. If bush were here in houston that would have happend proabably 8 times this season and he'd have a short career. That fumble at the end of the game wasnt nice that almost lost it for the saints...but i will admit any back could have dropped it...although it was a nice pitch.
C)I don't really understand the Vince Young pick at #1 anyways besides the fact that he was the 'hometown kid'. that shouldn't make you the number 1 overall. He wasn't even rated as the #1 QB last year so why would he be taken 1 overall. I think we would have been very criticized for that..but they could say he would sell tickets and jerseys. I'd be more worried about winning games and building a respectable franchise than selling jerseys. With that said he has outperformed everyone else. I'd take him 1 overall now after the fact but not before last year. hindsight is a wonderful thing.
D)Peterson is someone I wanted here...then I found out through the season how horrific our secondary and pass rush really are.
If Cleveland passes on Peterson there is a very big chance he falls to us. I would be happy if we took him...assuming J.Thomas is off the board and C.Johnson are as well.
What if Oakland waits on a QB or gets one in FA ..or carr.lol they take Calvin Johnson. Detroit takes Quinn? Thomas?...suddenly JaMarcus Russell may fall to us. I wouldn't mind picking him up and letting him sit a year behing Carr, Sage or Plummer.
If they are gone I wouldn't mind DLine. BUt would most likely prefer LaRon Landry. I started with him...likened up to Reggie Nelson but think LaRon would be my pick. It'd be nice to trade down a bit but would be fine if we took someone at 8. True we may be able to get a decent FS/CB later in the draft but thats also true about DT. I'd rather have the best FS and a good DT that can do his job.
What group would you rather have for the texans over the 06/07 drafts:
Reggie Bush and Gaines Adams or
Adrian Peterson and Mario Williams
I know I'd take peterson and williams. If you look at it that way..this doesnt look so bad..even at the spots they were picked.
but of course cleveland may take peterson...or we may pass on him if he gets to us .
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Are you kidding me? Mario was getting blocked by two or three defenders every game and still made plays. Lawson was just a good player taking advantage of a 1 on 1 with his lineman. Lawson was a good player (still is) but he was not the best defender on that NC State team. You wonder why NC State had 2 OTHER defensive lineman taken in the 1st round it is because MARIO allowed them to make their plays. I am not saying Lawson would not have been good if Mario was not there, but Mario had alot to do with him being so successful at NC State.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Yea but I'd take both those players over Bush. I like westbrook a lot...he really was a huge part of philly this year.
AustinJB
Rookie
Ease up Vinny...no need to start questioning someone's football knowledge. Read the post; I didn't say that I would not want Brian Westbrook on my team. He is a good back; he's versatile, but not worthy of a top 5 pick IMO. I would RATHER have a power work-horse back who can still break the long run...which I think we have a shot at this year.
Also, Marshall Faulk is head and shoulders above Westbrook IMO. I wouldn't put Westbrook in that class yet.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I'm not so sure about that. IMO Westbrook is the MVP of running backs this year. Easily the Eagles MVP.
HomeBred_Texan
Veteran
The only reason safety is a bigger need is because we have NO running game to keep the D OFF the field. Does that make any sence?
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
You're exactly right. If we take Landry it'd be a huge upgrade at FS. But we wouldn't have a great running game...thus our defense would be on the field a lot and get tired.
However if we take Peterson and our running game is really good..we eat up clock, yardage and hopefully some points. Thus forcing the other team to play from behind with less time than usual..so they would have to throw the ball which isnt good for us if we still have a secondary that is pathetic.
It's a catch 22 situation
luckily we have FA and the other picks in the draft to help. Im looking forward to seeing how kubes builds up our team.
LT might be the MVP of runningbacks.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Too bad he didn't get it this year...I was hoping for it...wait a minute!
I for one am not saying that Reggie Bush isn't an important and valuable
member of the Saints. Do I wish we had him on our team. Of course I do.
And I enjoy watching him play - he's very talented and unpredictable which in turn makes him exciting and entertaining to watch.
My only only point is that there were other rookie backs in the 2006 Draft who were taken later and atleast one not even taken until after the first round who would be atleast as valuable to the Texans as Bush would have been.
Oh, and the first 3 picks of the 2006 Draft should have all been QBs.
member of the Saints. Do I wish we had him on our team. Of course I do.
And I enjoy watching him play - he's very talented and unpredictable which in turn makes him exciting and entertaining to watch.
My only only point is that there were other rookie backs in the 2006 Draft who were taken later and atleast one not even taken until after the first round who would be atleast as valuable to the Texans as Bush would have been.
Oh, and the first 3 picks of the 2006 Draft should have all been QBs.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Oh well other than LT, of course, what was I thinking. Westbrook is pretty close. He is consistantly 70% of their offense.
R
real
Guest
They don't neccessarily need a Duece...Just a solid guy....
Thomas Jones could be that....
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Ehhhh...maybe. That would still be quite a bit of money in their running back position. Then you got to actually get the guy to say "yea i'll be that guy" and probably for less money than he could get at other places.
Do most people agree that Duece will not be there for much longer? If so, when do you think he will leave?
R
real
Guest
Semantics.
We could go through a million hypotheticals if we had the time...The main point is that it is possible for coaches to utilize talented players in different ways by altering their scheme...
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
That's true but that doesn't mean they have to. Mario is very talented and they do not have to alter their scheme at all.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Best way I can put it is Patriots against Colts. You can't build your team around a set of players anymore.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
right, he fit right in with a line that can't sack the QB.
AustinJB
Rookie
Good point.
We wouldn't have had to alter it for VY either (at least judging by what Carr did this yr)......VY is definately accurate enough to throw 5 yd dumpoffs
We wouldn't have to alter it for DeAngelo Williams, L. Moroney, Maurice Jones Drew, or Joseph Addai, or even for AP this yr, etc., etc.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
That is totally ridiculous to think that the Pats and Colts haven't built teams around Peyton and Brady. A good nucleus is essential if you want to build a good football team. Individual players come and go once you build a core that you can add and subtract from.
run-david-run
All Pro
Reggie Bush isnt a core player. He is a bonus, a complementary part of the offense that adds some excitment, some big plays, and little else. You build your team around LT, Deuce McAllister, Drew Brees, Manning, Brady, etc...not a slot receiver who averages 3.6 yards a carry and will break one every now and then.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Why do you dislike Mario so much? Because of who we had to pass on to get him or just that he was not very productive in pass rushing this season or what?
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Yeah I'm saying he's a workout warrior who the Texans (and many others out there) fell in love with. I'm not dogging Mario in the least with that either so please don't think I'm giving the guy a hard time. It's not like he's the only person to ever shoot up the boards after the season ended and it's not like he's a bad player. If we'd gotten him at around the same spot we took Travis Johnson the year before I'd have been tickled to death to get him. At the first overall spot I don't think he's my choice but, having said that I think you usually don't see a guy taken first overall who really merits it.
Think about the first overall picks for the past few years
2006 Mario Williams
2005 Alex Smith
2004 Eli Manning
2003 Carson Palmer
2002 David Carr
2001 Michael Vick
2000 Courtney Brown
1999 Tim Couch
There aren't a lot of guys on that list that I'd honestly say were the best player in their draft class. Mario isn't alone and it's not like anyone is trying to single him out. Whether it's the workout warrior label or just good ol' old fashioned hype the best player almost never gets picked first overall.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I agree...Bush is def a compliment and not a core player.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
So true.
Mario didn't even much look like the same guy he did in college. That injury really hurt his game alot this season.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
He's the David Carr of defense right now...all potential and a flash here and there.....you don't want that out of your 60 million dollar bonus babies (this tends to give you 6-10 teams). I find it funny that you guys bust on rookies from other teams but you slobber all over Mario who has done less than the guys you guys bag on.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
The Patriots don't usually re-sign key players...the Colts only do that on defense and keep everyone on offense, basically.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
I'll bring out the injury card.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
But at the same time Mario had a pretty hampering injury for half the season or so, not many of those guys were injured like Mario. Bush was alot of potential with some flash here and there as well.
Bush had something like 8 touchdowns this year and 4 of them were against San Francisco (the same team your boy Lawson plays on) in ONE game. If you want to talk about padding stats...what about this game?
old football fan
Waterboy
I think Peterson would be a good choice. We will not get any FA running backs and that position does need to be addressed
dirty steve
Veteran
i'm done with the VY and others bashing because it did nothing but get me alot of grief from the mods. many thought i was VY-hating when all i wanted was for some to live in the now, and contend with what we have now. but i digress...
i dont gush over mario but i do hope that he, along with others, can build something special on the defensive side of the ball. hopefully that something special starts with alan branch. not sure i am ready to give him carr status yet though.