Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

This is a dumb question

You can use Peek as the fifth Lineman, and Simmons as the third LB......

Show a 3-3, then when the ball is snapped, Peek falls back to LB, and Simmons becomes our second safety...... heck, CC could be the third LB, or Orr can come down as the fifth Lineman.

Yeah...That would make sense....And There was a thread about this started a little while ago, and I basically said the same thing...I said it can work if you have a LB playing DL and a DB playing LB....I could see that working because it wouldn't take away from your versatility...
 
I think Babin would be a little better in the stand up role, personally. I would like to see Simmons on the field a bit more (not that my avatar gives that away). He can lay some licks on receivers with the underneath stuff and he can come up with the INT here and there. I think he has earned a bit more playing time and I'd like to see what he could do with it. If he does nothing, well, you're not any worse off than you are right now.

Well, making him an LB/Safety was to get him on the field more often. Same with Peek..... I think Babin should keep a hand on the ground.

IF Peek can't be a 3-4 LB, then he'll only see playing time on obvious passing situations...... & may not be on this team for very long.

I want him to play strongside, close to the line...... stop the run, and get the QB..... I'd like to see him rush the QB from the inside, and not just the edge...

I think the Center/Gaurd/Tackle(depending on which gap we line him up on) would have to pay him some attention when he shows blitz......
 
Yeah...That would make sense....And There was a thread about this started a little while ago, and I basically said the same thing...I said it can work if you have a LB playing DL and a DB playing LB....I could see that working because it wouldn't take away from your versatility...


& I think our LBs are playing soo poorly, we wouldn't miss them..... Simmons & Peek both need to be on the field, but I don't want to take anyone but a LB off.
 
For everyone. The thing about the 3-4 is you disguise who you are bringing on the rush. In the 3-4 you've got four linebackers on a normal basis and 3 in the 4-3. The 3-4 allows DBs to play a little farther back from the line of scrimmage. In the 4-3 you are asking your DBs, especially your safeties to read plays more and jump routes more, playing closer to the line of scrimmage. I think that is why we keep getting beat deep. Teams are eating us in the short passing game, and while that used to be mostly the linebackers fault, it is our whole secondary's fault now. So things like CC jumping the play action are happening and we keep gettin burnt by big plays.

Exactly....IMO the biggest mistakes and completely blown coverages have been mental mistakes. It's not really due to our players being completely outmatched physically (although we do need an upgrade in a few positions.)

With this being said, the mental mistakes are correctable and SHOULD improve throughout the year. However, I still think it's blatantly obvious that we need a better FS who can not only cover better, but make better judgement calls.:twocents:
 
maybe what the team needs the most is a swift kick in the a**. i hope that monday and tuesday...all the texans did was run till they puked. that maybe too high school football coach for some people, but i know that with my friends who played, always seemed to fix the mental mistakes. i said this in another thread, but i'd like to see the first part of the game practically all passing plays, or at least 80% of them.
 
Exactly....IMO the biggest mistakes and completely blown coverages have been mental mistakes. It's not really due to our players being completely outmatched physically (although we do need an upgrade in a few positions.)

With this being said, the mental mistakes are correctable and SHOULD improve throughout the year. However, I still think it's blatantly obvious that we need a better FS who can not only cover better, but make better judgement calls.:twocents:

Think about this...If you are comfortable with what you're doing....Would you make a lot of mistakes ? ..... When players are tired or have been getting beat all game, that causes mental mistakes....C'mon...we don't have a veteran Defensive Backfield but they aren't newbies either....Mental mistakes shouldn't be that much of a problem at this point despite the change from the 3-4 to the 4-3....(I would still like for someone to explain to me how this changes coverage for the DB's)....They guys we have just simply arnen't that talented....
 
(I would still like for someone to explain to me how this changes coverage for the DB's)

It does not change it automatically as stated above just like not all 3-4's are the same. Pittsburgh's penetrating 3-4 had almost no resemblence to the tie 'em up and hold them 3-4 of the Texans. Same thing with coverage--all sorts of options are available. Look at the regular season and then playoff games between Indy and the Patriots in 2004. In week 1 the Patriots played off the WR's in a softer zone coverage and beat the Colts and then in the playoffs played a tight bump frequently man coverage and beat the Colts. Same team, same 3-4--totally different coverage by the DB's.
 
It does not change it automatically as stated above just like not all 3-4's are the same. Pittsburgh's penetrating 3-4 had almost no resemblence to the tie 'em up and hold them 3-4 of the Texans. Same thing with coverage--all sorts of options are available. Look at the regular season and then playoff games between Indy and the Patriots in 2004. In week 1 the Patriots played off the WR's in a softer zone coverage and beat the Colts and then in the playoffs played a tight bump frequently man coverage and beat the Colts. Same team, same 3-4--totally different coverage by the DB's.


O.k....thats what I thought....I thought maybe he knew something I didn't....I didn't think that your defensive formation neccessarily had anything to do with how your DB's played....
 
O.k....thats what I thought....I thought maybe he knew something I didn't....I didn't think that your defensive formation neccessarily had anything to do with how your DB's played....

Clearly your front 7 has to interact with the DB's and how you choose to play up front effects the game plan for coverage but it isn't as simple or limited as a 3-4 dictates X kind of coverage.
 
(I would still like for someone to explain to me how this changes coverage for the DB's)....They guys we have just simply arnen't that talented....

So when our FS & Nickel corner bite on play action, it's because they aren't talented?? Or do they not trust our front 7 to do their job, and stop the run??

The only people I've seen get outran, are Dunta & Orr...... Just about every big play not concerning Dunta looks like people just weren't where they were supposed to be.

On that diving catch by Stallworth at the end of the half agains Philly, where Dunta was trailing Stallworth.... IIRC, he had Earl over the top. Earl should have broken on the ball as soon as it was thrown(I think he was facing McNabb) But he didn't. I would consider that a mental mistake. If he had broke on the ball, and Stallworth still made that catch, then I would say it was a lack of Talent.

I have to go back and watch that play, to see what really happened.

Can you point to any particular play that shows a lack of talent in the secondary??
 
Jerek...to a certain extent you are right...There is always going to be a hole in the zone...It's up to the QB to recognize the coverage, know his routes and be able to deliver the ball in one of the holes in the zone...BUT at the same time, the defenders aren't the robots you are making them out to be.....Yes it's true that they are supposed to be disciplined and drop into their zone, BUT there are certain instances when there isn't a route or WR entering their zone....Like lets take a cover 2 zone...corners zoning the flats, and safeties zoning deep...Linebackers zoning middle...If a reciever runs a go route he'll come open between the corner and the safety...thats where the hole would be in that particular zone...Does that mean if he completes the pass it was no ones fault ??? No...at some point that safety has to come up and cover the reciever...he can't just keep backing up and let the man settle into the opening because it ain't his zone...If your zone doesn't become Man coverage at some point you will lose everytime...If what you say is true...what would be the point of playing zone...A reciever could just settle down in a hole....The defenders have to think a react...they can't play like droids and allow recievers to just settle into the holes...

Maybe I was assuming too much or maybe I didn't state that completely. Of course defenders must and do pick up receivers as they enter into their zone, becoming "man" coverage during that time period, if you will, until the receiver leaves their zone. Just pointing out that it is inherently perhaps more difficult to play a zone correctly mentally speaking; there is a lot more that goes into identifying and covering the receivers from an individual and a team cohesiveness perspective. It's much easier from a mental standpoint to just man cover the same guy throughout the play. Most times when a QB beats the zone it is either because the receiver found the window before the closest defender can get to him, or because of screwups/miscommunications on the defenders' part. We have had ample share of both and of course the longer the play goes on, the more likely it is that we will suffer a defensive breakdown somewhere, whether we are in man or zone. If you can't see that then I can't help you.

Taking your Cover 2 example, this is why the middle of the field is typically open against Cover 2, especially if you have for instance a long sideline route in that same play. The two deep safeties must choose who they are going to cover and at some point there is high probability that one of them will miss, or will be covering someone else, when the go route enters their zone, and is left wide open.

A quarterback like Manning -- especially when not pressured -- only needs a very small window of opportunity to hit his receivers. Which is why I repeat; pressure him. It's what every defense has done to beat him. The ones that soft zone him for most of the game get numbers like 400 yards passing hung on their heads.
 
So when our FS & Nickel corner bite on play action, it's because they aren't talented?? Or do they not trust our front 7 to do their job, and stop the run??

Im not saying that guys don't make mental mistakes...because clearly they do...But my point is that the more talented you are, the easier the mental part comes IMO....For instance...If You are Lewis Sanders playing Randy Moss....His Mind will be running a million miles a minute because he knows Randy is far more talented than him...Just by him knowing that it will cause mistakes...Like cheating up, playing off, trying to get an advantage...When A player is more concerned about an opposing players ability it takes them out of their game...If you don't have to worry about an opposing player burning you or mand-handling you you can relax and play...does that make sense ??

On that diving catch by Stallworth at the end of the half agains Philly, where Dunta was trailing Stallworth.... IIRC, he had Earl over the top. Earl should have broken on the ball as soon as it was thrown(I think he was facing McNabb) But he didn't. I would consider that a mental mistake. If he had broke on the ball, and Stallworth still made that catch, then I would say it was a lack of Talent.

Well Im not familar with that particular play....but...My guess is that if Earl wasn't worried about stallworth's speed he might have closed faster...But again I'm not saying guys don't make mental mistakes...Im more so giving a reason why....


Can you point to any particular play that shows a lack of talent in the secondary??

Can we all agree that Marvin Harrison is more talented than D.Rob...our best corner ??? .... he torched him..all game long...Every player in the leauge makes mistakes....Some players mistakes aren't so noticeable because they have extreme talent which covers it up....Our players mistakes are easily seen because they don't have enough talent to cover their mistakes....D-Rob is easily our best DB.....I know Sanders has been playing better or just as good as him in some cases, but Sanders isn't holding #1 recievers all game like D-Rob is....I don't see how you can deny the lack of talent that we have across the board let alone our DB's which IMO, is the most talentless position on the team...They have made plays on occasion but none of them are consistent...
 
Maybe I was assuming too much or maybe I didn't state that completely. Of course defenders must and do pick up receivers as they enter into their zone, becoming "man" coverage during that time period, if you will, until the receiver leaves their zone. Just pointing out that it is inherently perhaps more difficult to play a zone correctly mentally speaking; there is a lot more that goes into identifying and covering the receivers from an individual and a team cohesiveness perspective. It's much easier from a mental standpoint to just man cover the same guy throughout the play. Most times when a QB beats the zone it is either because the receiver found the window before the closest defender can get to him, or because of screwups/miscommunications on the defenders' part. We have had ample share of both and of course the longer the play goes on, the more likely it is that we will suffer a defensive breakdown somewhere, whether we are in man or zone. If you can't see that then I can't help you.

Taking your Cover 2 example, this is why the middle of the field is typically open against Cover 2, especially if you have for instance a long sideline route in that same play. The two deep safeties must choose who they are going to cover and at some point there is high probability that one of them will miss, or will be covering someone else, when the go route enters their zone, and is left wide open.

A quarterback like Manning -- especially when not pressured -- only needs a very small window of opportunity to hit his receivers. Which is why I repeat; pressure him. It's what every defense has done to beat him. The ones that soft zone him for most of the game get numbers like 400 yards passing hung on their heads.

I completely agree with everything you wrote...

Just a visual of what you're talking about...
 
They have made plays on occasion but none of them are consistent...

I can say the same about our QB..... but we all agree he has talent.... just doesn't know how to use it yet.

As for DRob getting beat, I'd be upset to find out that Harrison is faster than DRob..... I can agree that he can catch better than Drob, and he can run routes better....... that's why he's on offense.

But Dunta has been getting beat since the Denver preseason game....... I don't think his talent is below any of those guys, with the exception of maybe the speed of DanteStallworth.

BrandonStokely in the corner of the endzone..... Dunta is a much better corner than Stokely is a reciever.

Sanders did a very good job on Wayne & Reggie Brown..... I don't think Reggie made any big plays on Sanders, and the one Wayne got was a good pass thrown outside..... Sanders was in position, where he needed to be.

& IMHO I think our safeties are being told to keep the play in front of them, I don't know if that's because RSmith is trying to compensate for a lack of talent or what.
 
OFF TOPIC: Dude you just turned 21 yesterday....why are you even awake now? You should be recovering from alcohol poisoning. :party:

Happy belated.

ha ha....thanks....But Im going out this weekend...and believe me...Im going to get stupid drunk....lol
 
For everyone. The thing about the 3-4 is you disguise who you are bringing on the rush. In the 3-4 you've got four linebackers on a normal basis and 3 in the 4-3. The 3-4 allows DBs to play a little farther back from the line of scrimmage. In the 4-3 you are asking your DBs, especially your safeties to read plays more and jump routes more, playing closer to the line of scrimmage. I think that is why we keep getting beat deep. Teams are eating us in the short passing game, and while that used to be mostly the linebackers fault, it is our whole secondary's fault now. So things like CC jumping the play action are happening and we keep gettin burnt by big plays.

Good thread - thanks for the clarification. I'll watch the secondary more closely on Sunday.

Of course, McNabb and Manning both do a good job reading and exploiting D mistakes (especially Manning) - I'm not as concerned about Brunell finding those seams...........
 
Good thread - thanks for the clarification. I'll watch the secondary more closely on Sunday.

Of course, McNabb and Manning both do a good job reading and exploiting D mistakes (especially Manning) - I'm not as concerned about Brunell finding those seams...........

I agree. Although they do have a guy named Clinton Portis that very well could run all over us if the run D doesn't step up.:twocents:
 
Back
Top