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This changes everything

his stats were fine... his running ability wasnt. And White came out with much better stats btw.
 
Grid said:
his stats were fine... his running ability wasnt. And White came out with much better stats btw.
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White ran straight ahead through the tackles to where a linebacking corp should have been. He didn't really do anything other than take what was there. Bush made things happen and showed he's able to create plays on his own. His yards per carry were better than White's. He had less TDs so that must be why White was the better player.
 
You people ALMOST had me wanting to draft Bush. Now, I've seen him against the best D he will face in college and I have 2 words:

TRADE
DOWN!!!
 
TexanBacker93 said:
In the 2000 Mobile Bowl a Southern Miss team held some highly touted running back to 118 yards on 28 carries. It was his worst performance of the season. Yeah, I see how one "poor" game by Bush should change everything. That Tomlinson guy that struggled in his last game really has been a piss poor pro.

Michael Vick only threw for 205 yards in his last college game.

Peyton Manning threw for only 134 yards in his last college game, a blowout loss to Nebraska.

John Elway never even got his team to a Bowl game. He never won a Heisman (although that award means nothing in the NFL).

My point is that one game doesn't make a player's career. Where would the Colts be if they had decided that Ryan Leafs 331 yard performance in the Rose Bowl was more important than Manning's college career especially considering Manning had such a lousy day against the Cornhuskers?

As for the comment about Bush's stats against lousy teams while Young dominated better teams. Only Ohio St. can be considered a very good team this season amongst the Longhorns schedule. USC played a tougher schedule, but the better team still won at the end.
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THANK YOU. Exactly my point proven......
 
The lauded Texas defense has been gearing up for taking out Reggie. That was the gameplan, so I was not surprised that Bush did not put up 400+ yards. Texas is a great team. But if Bush had stopped, dropped, and rolled instead of trying to lateral the ball, maybe we would be talking more about how great Bush is. I still think he is a valuable playmaker and worthy of the #1 pick. Lendale White looked good because he was a bit of an X factor. If your mind is on stopping Bush, then Lendale has room to wiggle. Credit Pete Carrol for this (who, btw, coached an excellent game - I have a lot more respect for that guy).
 
oso said:
The lauded Texas defense has been gearing up for taking out Reggie. That was the gameplan, so I was not surprised that Bush did not put up 400+ yards. Texas is a great team. But if Bush had stopped, dropped, and rolled instead of trying to lateral the ball, maybe we would be talking more about how great Bush is. I still think he is a valuable playmaker and worthy of the #1 pick. Lendale White looked good because he was a bit of an X factor. If your mind is on stopping Bush, then Lendale has room to wiggle. Credit Pete Carrol for this (who, btw, coached an excellent game - I have a lot more respect for that guy).
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Except .....

LenDale White has been doing this all season long. His style of running translates better to the NFL and he will have a better pro career, IMO. Imagine LenDale White on a team like the Steelers, Panthers, or Ravens (now that Lewis might be out). To me, a back like LenDale White (235 lbs., good stright-line speed) is a better complement to DD than Bush would be.
 
I got to agree with this. Lendale white is a much better NFL style runner. I'd rather have him to complimate DD. He could be our version of TJ Duckett.
 
eriadoc said:
Except .....

LenDale White has been doing this all season long. His style of running translates better to the NFL and he will have a better pro career, IMO. Imagine LenDale White on a team like the Steelers, Panthers, or Ravens (now that Lewis might be out). To me, a back like LenDale White (235 lbs., good stright-line speed) is a better complement to DD than Bush would be.
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USC was the first team with a high-calibre run game that UT faced, so I think they emphasized on Bush, JMO. They would have been fools to neglect LenDale, though. And yes, he is a monster. But IMO, Reggie is to much of a tool. He can catch and he can run. He put some great moves on Texas. Reggie Bush is like a DD with speed and, from what I have gathered from other people, the ability to block, which we desperately need.

Could LenDale replace the Bus? From what I saw, I think so.
 
Ya'll make me sick. Bandwagoners. You act as if 272 All Purpose Yards is bad. You also act as if Reggie has reached his full potential and has no more room for improvement. A game where Reggie was held on the sidelines (thanks to Carroll) and shouldve had more chances at the ball, you all say he chocked. That's moronic. Bush in '06.
 
bubbajaxonbrown said:
Bush won the Heisman making plays against tier 2 teams like Fresno St., Oregon, etc. LenDale has been getting yards between the tackles all year but were as "flashy" as Bush's runs. Young has been performing against the best opponents all year in the Big 12.
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:rofl:

Yeah right.......The awesome teams in the Big 12 would have shut Bush down weekly. :pigfly:
 
cuppacoffee said:
:rofl:

Yeah right.......The awesome teams in the Big 12 would have shut Bush down weekly. :pigfly:
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I think VY did a awesome job last night and yeah he's a hometown boy but the timing is bad. We don't need a QB....look at the playoffs this year. How many "mobile" QB's are left. Hmmmmmmm let's see we got Brady, Manning, Hasselback, another Manning, Brunell, Palmer, do u see a trend...we need a great defense with a solid ground game and a QB that can make descisions in the pocket. Just let it go...Bush will be #1 and we will be in the playoffs in the next 2 yrs. VY we might be looking at 3-4yrs before the playoffs.
 
|The.Brand0n| said:
Ya'll make me sick. Bandwagoners. You act as if 272 All Purpose Yards is bad. You also act as if Reggie has reached his full potential and has no more room for improvement. A game where Reggie was held on the sidelines (thanks to Carroll) and shouldve had more chances at the ball, you all say he chocked. That's moronic. Bush in '06.
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Feel free to check my posting history. I've opposed taking Bush for as long as it's been a topic on this board and I have also previously asserted that LenDale White is the better pro prospect. Last night's game did nothing to change my already-formed opinion, that's all.
 
TXurias said:
I think VY did a awesome job last night and yeah he's a hometown boy but the timing is bad. We don't need a QB....look at the playoffs this year. How many "mobile" QB's are left. Hmmmmmmm let's see we got Brady, Manning, Hasselback, another Manning, Brunell, Palmer, do u see a trend...we need a great defense with a solid ground game and a QB that can make descisions in the pocket. Just let it go...Bush will be #1 and we will be in the playoffs in the next 2 yrs. VY we might be looking at 3-4yrs before the playoffs.
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You actually make a good point. Running quarterbacks were a novelty a few years ago, but teams and players are realizing that if you can't throw the ball you are not going to have success. McNabb learned it, Culpeper learned it, Vick is learning it, and Young will learn it.
 
In my opinion....Reggie did nothing to minimize his future. One mistake (although, huge) doesn't break down weeks and weeks worth of good football.

If anything....I think this game served as a very humbling experience, in how quickly everything can disappear when you've been on top (the record, big program, big city, etc.) for so long. He's done it on the HS level with success....and it bit him in the **** on the college level. So, most likely, his lateral days are over with.

Bush will be alright.



:)
 
Soemthing that isn't in the stats is also how having a guy like him opens up the rest of the offense. Even when Bush didn't have the ball, the Texas D and other Ds have keyed on him. Leinart had all day on play action. That helsp out any O-line and any QB.
 
The Draft is about upside, not history. QB's have won more Superbowls than RB's and quite frankly if HOUSTON TEXAS'S OWN VINCE YOUNG is on the board, he deserves to be a Texan. He needs time to learn, yes but who's backing up Carr now? This would rate up there with last year's brainfart letting a TEXAS STUD Derrick Johnson go elsewhere. I am a homer but lets just be real, if you are from Texas then you will play harder in your home state. Do you want that working FOR you or AGAINST you? Either way VY will be a factor in Houston we can PAY him or PLAY him. Just a thought.
 
pv1999 said:
The Draft is about upside, not history. QB's have won more Superbowls than RB's and quite frankly if HOUSTON TEXAS'S OWN VINCE YOUNG is on the board, he deserves to be a Texan. He needs time to learn, yes but who's backing up Carr now? This would rate up there with last year's brainfart letting a TEXAS STUD Derrick Johnson go elsewhere. I am a homer but lets just be real, if you are from Texas then you will play harder in your home state. Do you want that working FOR you or AGAINST you? Either way VY will be a factor in Houston we can PAY him or PLAY him. Just a thought.
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Here's a thought: Draft Young and mentor him for a year or two under Kubiak. After Carr does fairly well over the next year or two with a good line, trade him somewhere for more picks. I call it the Cincinnatti Sneak since it is "similar" to what they did with Palmer.
 
VINCE YOUNG WILL BE AN OAKLAND RAIDER!!!!! You heard it here first.


Point blank the only thing that happen for me last night is some players stock went up while others just MAINTAINED where they were.

READ EVERYTHING I SAY BEFORE JUMPING ON ME: Last night USC used Bush liked the Lions use to use B Sanders in certain big games. More as a decoy and they would give him the ball so inconsistently he never really got into the FLOW of the game.

It is NOT Bush's fault he wasn't being put in the game to make plays. Last night was him playing close to an NFL Defense and HELLO he averaged almost 5 yards a pop. Showed himself a serious receiving threat. Can someone tell me what they want from this kid? To walk on water perhaps.

Did I expect more out of him? HELL YES but I can't fault him for not getting more when the coaches aren't getting him the ball.

I mean did NO ONE SEE when Bush laid his shoulder into the Texas player at the beginning of the game? Obviously they should have called for more plays for Bush b/w the tackles. You can jump on Lendale white bandwagon if you want but EVERYTIME he tried to run outside they stuffed his big behind as well.


ALL THAT SAID....YOUNG IS THE MAN.
 
Bongo59 said:
Bush bad day was 275 yds of total O..............no exactly chop liver..........take young we'll take Bush.
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The TV graphic should have broken it down, it was more like 177 yds rushing and receiving. that 275 is misleading. In a game with as many scores as there was, he'd have to be in a wheelchair not to rack up at least 100 return yards.

The thing that bothered me most, and I said this in another thread, is that after he fumbled that lateral, he lost his spark. He carried that mistake with him the whole game. Mental toughness is very important in the NFL.
 
Texas_Thrill said:
You can jump on Lendale white bandwagon if you want but EVERYTIME he tried to run outside they stuffed his big behind as well.

.
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I just want to point out that running outside just isn't done in the NFL and Bush (or anyone else) won't be able to do it either--at least not for consistant yardage. The LBs are too fast.

White is a north and south runner. He is a bigger DD who can most likely block. I wouldn't mind having him at all, but I'm not saying that's my final decision.

You wanna know what really impressed me in that game that made me see a major weakness with the Texans? We just don't have that EASY 5 yd. dump to the TE and then watch him muscle his way for another 3 to 5 yds. and a first down. We need that really bad. I've heard people recently saying that Carr never throws over the middle, but he sure did it when we had Billy Miller (of course, he couldn't block). Oh, and we don't give our QB PROTECTION.
 
can u please explain to me how exactly he chocked? I find it pretty funny how everyone has jumped onto the vince vibe [as espn described it] after he won the rose bowl. Do remember after reggie bushes performance against fresno, everyone was like omg, Reggie Bush for Heisman...and now that V. Young has won the rose bowl everyone wants a piece of Young.

Also Bush had a pretty much amazing game, wether you like to admit it or not. He wasn't even playing in 75% of it, yet he managed quite a few rushing yards, one of which landed in a touchdown, and the other could have been a touchdown if the guy her lateralled to was actually paying attention! No one seems to find fault with the player that didn't catch the laterall??? If that player would have cought the ball everyone would be talking about how AMAZING Bush's decision to laterall was and how amazing he is. So please look at his track record before u totally judge him on one game, which he did do well in.

Bush + Davis would be an unstoppable combo, plus with a few OL picks in later rounds, the Texans...dare i say it...could be a 7 - 8 win team??? Carr is a very solid QB so their is no need to draft V Young or Leinart. Car has what it takes to be a good QB, and if the offensive line would actually allow him time to pass, he would easily demonstrate it to everyone.

Though i am high on Young right now, Reggie Bush will make a greatly affect the team within the first year hes around.
 
HJam72 said:
I just want to point out that running outside just isn't done in the NFL and Bush (or anyone else) won't be able to do it either--at least not for consistant yardage. The LBs are too fast.
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Priest Holmes would beg to differ.
 
I agree with alot you are saying except, if Young were to come out I'd rather have him, but if not then Bush it is...And it was by no means the fault of the guy who missed the lateral...
 
I think Reggie would make a bigger difference on this team as a WR, but that's just not worth a #1 pick to me.
 
HJam72 said:
OK, but that's because Holmes RUNS OVER PEOPLE on the outside. I don't see Bush doing that.
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I did last night. I think it was Cedric Griffin that he steam rolled in the first quarter.
 
Yeah he did... Reggie can break tackles...People are just blind to what they don't want to see
 
As long as we're going to do something stupid (I have no doubt Casserly will do something stupid) and somehow NOT draft a lineman with a first round pick, I'd rather have Vince than Reggie. That's not based on one game. I've watched Vince all year and that man has ice water in his veins, he is special, he is a leader, and he can do it by himself with his arm and his legs.

I think Carr could be a good enough QB and I think DD could be a good enough RB making Bush and Young unnecessary luxuries, but that's another story. Casserly WILL draft Bush and we are wasting our time speculating about anything else.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Yeah he did... Reggie can break tackles...People are just blind to what they don't want to see
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I don't remember that, but I can promise you that, in the interest of the Texans future, I wanted nothing more last night than to see Bush & Leinart kick butt. My impression was that most of the time Bush ran up to the line, stopped, and then tried to get outside and that he was usually unsuccessfull at it now that he finally saw a real defense. Granted, he did have some success and that 26 yd. TD run was impressive, but appeared extemely inconsistent to me. White, on the other hand, seemed to be very consistant running right up the middle and USC stuck with him for good reason most of the game. I don't think that translates to the idea that Reggie Bush is so great that we take him despite having horrendous needs in other areas and already having a RB that we can't afford to release because of a major cap hit or pay both of them under the salary cap.
 
Im not going to get into all that other stuff, I just pointed out that the guy breaks tackles...He banged a texans defender on the sideline on the first series...
 
Just for the record, I wrote the following in the thread "Bush had better impress me big-time...." under "2006 draft and combine discussion" section:

Not only that, but I'll be rooting for Leinhart too. I care way more about the implications this game has for the Texans than I do about the Longhorns....sorry, people.
 
thing I like with Vince is he knows how to win.. he has confidence and his team draws off his confidence.. Some want to talk about this Rose Bowl and Vince what about last Rose bowl too? Even against Ohio State he led the charge.. (top ranked opponent at the time)

Now I am not on the draft Vince or Bush sucks bandwagon, I think Bush really didn't hurt himself with the game. It is just USC hadn't met a team that was equal to them and that game could have went both ways.. What I see is Bush is going to be good in the pro's but goal line situations.. I see him coming out unless he has an offensive line like the Cowboys in the early '90's..
 
You think he can run up the middle with success (not talking about goal-line--somebody else can do that)? It has to be done sometimes, even if it's not his forte.
 
I think he can...Why wouldn't he ba able too? I think that if given some of Whites carries he may have done more with them...White wasn't getting hit in the backfield consistently and making something out of nothing...He had holes to run through..In fact I believe that if they wouldve given the ball to reggie on that fourth and short he may have gotten it
 
Maybe Reggie can just dive up the middle. Didn't he dive like 7 or 8 yards last night in that touchdown? I swear he jumped from just inside the 5 yard line and landed a few yards in the endzone.
 
Texans don't need a quick fix. Bush is just a faster, quicker DD maybe even an LT-type talent. Maybe we win as many games as the Chargers! WOOHOO. Young gives us something that very few teams have. The upside of having a running QB is greater than the upside of having a great RB. Having someone touch the ball every play that can take it to the house vs. someone you have to change the offense for to get involved. AND When we change the offense for this guy, how does that sit with AJ and the others? Bottom line we should get Vince.
 
Wow we are seeing a whole new brand of fan... At first it was the trade the pick VS. the we want bush, now it's a new hybrid of we want VY guys...It's nothing wrong with that, and I've been a pick reggie guy, but thats only because I never thought VY would come out...
 
pv1999 said:
Texans don't need a quick fix. Bush is just a faster, quicker DD maybe even an LT-type talent. Maybe we win as many games as the Chargers! WOOHOO. Young gives us something that very few teams have. The upside of having a running QB is greater than the upside of having a great RB. Having someone touch the ball every play that can take it to the house vs. someone you have to change the offense for to get involved. AND When we change the offense for this guy, how does that sit with AJ and the others? Bottom line we should get Vince.
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The starting QB's in the playoffs this year average 4 yards per game rushing. Not sure where the running QB is a great thing started. Moreover, the Zone read is a big part of VY's success in college and will not be run in the NFL.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
The starting QB's in the playoffs this year average 4 yards per game rushing. Not sure where the running QB is a great thing started. Moreover, the Zone read is a big part of VY's success in college and will not be run in the NFL.
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This year is an exception. Look at QBs from the last THREE years playoffs . Any defensive mind will tell you that having to account for a QB who is faster than the average LB is a tall task. Most will rather have the pocket passer who they can account for with just linemen and an occasional blitzing LB. McNabb, McNair, McVick....McVince they force the defense to single cover recievers, and put extra guys on them (spys). When they single cover AJ, TO, Dyson....TD. And for your information, A big part of VY's success in college is the other team's defense trying to make him pass by not pressuring him, thus giving him all day to find someone. They didn't want the play to break down because that usually means scramble time. And Scramble Time usually means TD Time.
 
VY does not take care of the ball that well and is fumble prone. He simply gets away with a lot in college due to his freakish talent and size. However, the next level will offer many like characteristics on D which will highlight VY's weaknesses. Scramble time usually means a breakdown in execution. If your offense needs to be bailed out by a QB scrambling, then it ain't much of an offense.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
VY does not take care of the ball that well and is fumble prone. He simply gets away with a lot in college due to his freakish talent and size. However, the next level will offer many like characteristics on D which will highlight VY's weaknesses. Scramble time usually means a breakdown in execution. If your offense needs to be bailed out by a QB scrambling, then it ain't much of an offense.
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2001 - Michael does not take care of the ball that well and is fumble prone. He simply gets away with a lot in college due to his freakish talent and speed. However, the next level will offer many like characteristics on D which will highlight Michael's weaknesses.

2004 - Michael was named to the second Pro Bowl of his career after leading the Falcons to their third division title in team history and breaking numerous NFL and team records in 2004. Set an NFL playoff record for a quarterback with 119 rushing yards in the 2004 NFC Divisional Playoff Game against the Rams. Led the team to an 11-4 record, which was the third-best record for a starting quarterback in team history behind Chris Chandler (13-1 in 1998) and Steve Bartkowski (12-4 in 1980).

1995 - Steve is just not ready for NFL defenses.

2000 - Just short of Superbowl miracle.

2003 - Steve is crowned NFL Co-MVP. There are five players in the history of the NFL who have passed for 20,000 yards and rushed for 3,000 yards – John Elway, Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young, Randall Cunningham and McNair.
 
pv1999 said:
2001 - Micheal does not take care of the ball that well and is fumble prone. He simply gets away with a lot in college due to his freakish talent and speed. However, the next level will offer many like characteristics on D which will highlight Micheal's weaknesses.

2004 - Micheal was named to the second Pro Bowl of his career after leading the Falcons to their third division title in team history and breaking numerous NFL and team records in 2004. Set an NFL playoff record for a quarterback with 119 rushing yards in the 2004 NFC Divisional Playoff Game against the Rams. Led the team to an 11-4 record, which was the third-best record for a starting quarterback in team history behind Chris Chandler (13-1 in 1998) and Steve Bartkowski (12-4 in 1980).
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You have proven my point. 5 years in the league for Vick and you are trumpeting a popularity contest (Pro Bowl) as an accomplishment. Has he been to a Super Bowl yet? Has he won a NFC championship? These are things that matter in this game.

I think Vick was ready for the league more so than VY.
 
The Falcons defense has done more for that team than Vick has.

Vick is very talented athletically.. but his lack of ability as a REAL QB is what hurts him.. badly.

But I think comparing Young to Vick is not quite fair anyway. Young is a better QB.

Either way.. I dont think Young or Bush are the best choices for this team.

Click my signature.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
You have proven my point. 5 years in the league for Vick and you are trumpeting a popularity contest (Pro Bowl) as an accomplishment. Has he been to a Super Bowl yet? Has he won a NFC championship? These are things that matter in this game.

I think Vick was ready for the league more so than VY.
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Yea you're probably right, Vick was just a game away from a Superbowl. McNabb has been to a couple but just like McNair has always come up short.

hmmmm.....but what about
JOHN ELWAY.
STEVE YOUNG.
And where it all started sadly in Dallas with ROGER STAUBACH.

That's about 10 Superbowls, most of them victories.
 
I wasn't over the moon about Reggie Bush before. I had the "If we take him, okay - if we don't, okay" mentality.

I think he had a good performance last night. But there are players in college who are as good, who are as talented as he is.
 
Here's some quotes from real NFL personel guys on Vince, Reggie, and Matt from Chris Mortensen insider article on ESPN. I have to agree with these guys since they actually do this for a living.

• "I'd still take Leinart over Young as an NFL quarterback, but Leinart is not a franchise guy in the traditional sense. He's not John Elway, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer. Now, really, there aren't a lot of those guys anyway. Alex Smith sure wasn't. When [Texas] blanketed the USC receivers, especially early in the game, you got a glimpse of what the NFL is like. The windows are a lot tighter. Leinart struggled with those. But give the USC coaches credit -- they adjusted and managed to put up, what, over 500 yards against a pretty talented Texas defense?"

• "Young is a great competitor, that's the thing you have to like about him. But be careful about his athleticism. It's a great attribute but he doesn't have Michael Vick's suddenness. He's got real good speed, but it's not world-class speed, and you see what eventually happens to the guys in this league -- they get beat up and they slow down. He is strong for a fairly lean guy. And you have to like his size. But if you do the film cut-ups on just his throws from last night's game, you're going to be fairly unimpressed."

• "Leinart's clearly a bright guy. He's got better feet than most people talk about. His arm strength is average. He doesn't throw as many pure spirals as you would like. But he's a big guy, he's played a lot of football in a pro-style offense and he's had a lot of success. He's not going to carry a franchise on his back, but if you put talent around him, he's going to be a good quarterback in the NFL. And let's face it, we need more good quarterbacks."

• "If Young's performance did anything, it made a case that he should have won the Heisman, not [Reggie] Bush. But that was splitting hairs. That's not a very good USC defense he faced -- didn't Fresno State put up 40 on them? What I like about Young is that he's gotten better every year as far as throwing the football. He does spin it a lot better than he did before. Arm strength, like Leinart, pretty marginal. He won't have the same success running the ball in the NFL, not even close. But he's a leader, he'll generate some excitement, and then he'll get ripped [by the media and fans] when he doesn't dazzle in the NFL like people think. Still, if I were him, I'd probably come out. He needs a lot of work and he might as well start getting it now."

As for Bush, he still projects as the probable No. 1 pick in April's draft by the Houston Texans.

"He still did enough Superman stunts to make you say, 'Wow,'" said one personnel man. "There aren't many players who make you go, 'Wow,' so he's got tremendous value to a team. Maybe he's not a 4.2 guy [in the 40] but he's got plenty of juice."

Now, USC running back LenDale White had all these guys pretty excited.

"That's an NFL back," said one scout. "He's 220 pounds-plus and he will be a big-timer in our league. He won't dazzle, but he's the type of guy with the right team who can win a rushing title and score a lot of touchdowns."
 
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