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The Problem is Fangio.

Coach C.

Coach C.

Veteran
So I am in my media room with three of my closes friends enjoying pizza and the Texans game. I watch the first half and think damn the offense looks slow, but the defense looks even worse(crappy penalties and bad playcalling). The second half rolls around and we are laughing at my one friend because he is a Cowboys fan and he loss so it was a winning day in some aspect. Then the defense makes some plays when the get some aggressive play calls and I am thinking why has this not been the playcalling all game against sorry-*** Kyle Boller. Then we are taken on the emotional rollercoaster of the last 4min and are nervous when we finally take the lead. 55 seconds are left and to win the game it is on Fangio's playcalling. My boy mentions this is bad because Fangio calls play like a drooling retarted kid, so you know how that works just thinkin burn. Which in our case gets the defense burnt. Heap makes a spectacular play against our playmaker Greenwood(25mil), and we are wondering were is the pressure that had Kyle Boller looking like crap for most of the 4th quarter. The blitz is on, but they dont drop a LB into the middle to guard against the cross or quick slant. We have a safety on their fastest reciever and we get beat. We sit there and we wonder, how is it that FANGIO still has a job?

Fangio's playcalling is horrid, and we as fans can finally see that when you call our 3-4 aggressively we have the players to make plays. Fangio should be fired tomorrow. I mean promote Hoke now before he takes the TAMU job. Give me your thoughts on Fangio's performance.
 
I want Fangio gone as well. But the defense played ok for most of the game. Our problem was on Offense, 5 FG's, and special teams were atrocious.
 
I cant wait till we get a new DC and some of these guys on our bench get a good long look.

Anderson, Polk, Orr.. i think we really might have some talented players riding the pine.
 
Grid said:
I cant wait till we get a new DC and some of these guys on our bench get a good long look.

Anderson, Polk, Orr.. i think we really might have some talented players riding the pine.
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Agreed.
 
Yes, Fangio is a problem. His 3-4 stinks like nobody's business. The reason you have to fire Capers is that he won't fire Fangio, nor will he fire Pendry which IMO is almost, but not quite as important.

It's going to take a house cleaning to fix this. Then we're going to have to spend at least a year with another coach and staff before we have any true idea whether Casserly has done his job correctly or not.
 
Herv I agree mostly. I think a new staff will be able to instill great turnaround with this team. Legitimately we have the playmakers and role players to push anyteam, but the playcalling puts us in a whole before we even start the game. It is like our coaches do not even watch film.
 
Pressure was on most of the game but his playcalling always seems to break down in the fourth quarter.

Our defense breaks down when we play deep zone, it is like the DB's have no idea of who they are suppose to cover.
 
Grid said:
I cant wait till we get a new DC and some of these guys on our bench get a good long look.

Anderson, Polk, Orr.. i think we really might have some talented players riding the pine.
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Shantee Orr had a hell of a game today. He has proven that he should be starting. Overall, the defense played a good game, but playcalling at the end cost us a win. The prevent did its job again...it prevented us from winning. Also, IMHO, Peek got a raw deal today. The two roughing the passer calls against him were pure BS. It made it look like Peek was being targeted by the refs.

While I'm posting, I just wanted to put my :twocents: in about the Reggie Bush situation. IMHO, I think drafting him would be a mistake unless we pick him first and then trade him. We need too many other positions to grab another player at a position that we are strong at. We have D. Davis, J. Wells, & V. Morrency, so we really don't need another RB. I know it would be nice to have him, but honestly, would we be better off with Bush or a couple of top O-linemen? If we drafted Bush, we could trade him for a top veteran OT and another 1st round pick, or maybe a top veteran Center and a 1st. I just think that drafting him to play for us would keep us from filling the major holes that we have.

I know everyone is excited about getting Bush, but is it the best thing?
 
Palmer gets axed a few games into the season while Fangio's defense has been horrible all year. Why is he even here? Let Dom call the defensive plays and see what he's got.
 
atxcoolguy said:
Palmer gets axed a few games into the season while Fangio's defense has been horrible all year. Why is he even here? Let Dom call the defensive plays and see what he's got.
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someone said last week and I am almost in agreement with this. Palmer was the scapegoat. Palmer was running an offense that Capers wants and I am in belief now that if Palmer was still hear.. He would be our "interim" head coach right now and Capers would be gone. As it is now..I can't imagine any of our coaching staff taking over the reigns.
 
Wolf said:
someone said last week and I am almost in agreement with this. Palmer was the scapegoat. Palmer was running an offense that Capers wants and I am in belief now that if Palmer was still hear.. He would be our "interim" head coach right now and Capers would be gone. As it is now..I can't imagine any of our coaching staff taking over the reigns.
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IIRC, after Palmer's firing, they said that Palmer was asked to give up some of his responsibilities and let Pendry call some of the offensive plays. They said that Palmer refused because he did not want to take a step backwards in his carreer, so they said they were forced to let him go.
 
agreed like none other...fangio's version of the 3-4 defense is like 49ers...it's almost none existant...only the past two games have we had multiple sacks like we're supposed to...and that' probably because the last two teams we faced had sub-par offensive lines...minus orlando pace
 
atxcoolguy said:
Palmer gets axed a few games into the season while Fangio's defense has been horrible all year. Why is he even here? Let Dom call the defensive plays and see what he's got.
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I really wish Dom would call plays for the rest of the year. I know he'd step the pressure up even more than what it has been the last two weeks and I doubt he drops into soft cover 2's on every third down and in the two minute defense.
 
Dom was known for his blitz happy tactics as a DC and it is partly the reason why he received his shot as a HC. It is strange to see a Dom Capers team running such a soft defensive system. I welcome him calling the Defensive Plays, plus it would give him more to write in his notepad.
 
Fangio has done some awful coaching, but even without him our defense is porous, so he doesn't bother me as much as Pendry. We have a lot of new talent on the defense, unlike the offense, which has very similar players to last year.
 
I think the real problems are Fangio and Casserly, although Pendry isn't helping the situation at all....and, yes, Palmer was a scape goat (I've said this 3 or 4 times this year), but I don't know if Palmer would work as an HC. Replacing the entire bunch of them will work too. :)
 
Coach C. said:
Dom was known for his blitz happy tactics as a DC and it is partly the reason why he received his shot as a HC. It is strange to see a Dom Capers team running such a soft defensive system. I welcome him calling the Defensive Plays, plus it would give him more to write in his notepad.
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Dom Capers could be my defensive coordinator any day of the week. For that matter so could Jerry Glanville (back in the day). I wouldn't let either of them near my Head Coach position though (for different reasons). Dom simply cannot dismiss an assistant who's loyal but failing to get it done and Jerry can't handle the attention and becomes the biggest distraction/obstacle to the teams success.

Some guys just don't make good head coaches. It takes a different set of skills than being a coordinator.
 
jerek said:
Hervoyel and I have had a handful of disagreements in the past, so I thought I would be a good neighbor and make it a point to note my agreement with him and most of the others who have come before me on this thread. Dom was known for bringing the wood on defense, and I don't really grasp (other than through office politics or the good-buddy system) how Fangio is still employed. I understand that changing coordinators, especially at this late point in the year, could be difficult for the team, but sweet heavens, could we be any worse?

Shantee Orr has stepped up, in my opinion. He is still out of position sometimes, but he has done well and reintroduced a fire to this D that we have been missing. We finally sat Coleman out today, and Brown and Earl did a pretty solid job, until Brown got caught out of position on that last play and didn't have anyone back there to help.

It is a shame we had to ruin an almost entirely positive, fired-up defensive effort with that kind of playcalling at the end.

Fangio, it's nothing personal, but none of us would be upset if you just didn't show up for work tomorrow morning.
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Good take. There was some good stuff happening on the D today. DRob was back to form as well.
 
Again, I think Capers needs to pretty much take over Fangio's job. Capers has a great track record as a D Coordinator. He needs to take control of this defense and the fact that he hasn't realized this is why he's not a good head coach.

I mean, on the final drive, we come with the blitz and get beat pretty bad. Then, we do it again, and guess what happens? We get beat again. We do it again, and get beat again. :brickwall Horrible playcalling.
 
jerek said:
Shantee Orr has stepped up, in my opinion. He is still out of position sometimes, but he has done well and reintroduced a fire to this D that we have been missing. We finally sat Coleman out today, and Brown and Earl did a pretty solid job, until Brown got caught out of position on that last play and didn't have anyone back there to help.
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I think Marcus Coleman may be a backup for the rest of the season after today. That may or may not last but the team didn't seem to miss him in the least and it's fairly common for younger players to get more playing time at the end of losing seasons like this. If it's economically viable for the team he might not be back next year. I just don't know enough about the cap and his particular contract to speak intelligently on the subject.

I also think it's interesting that in the four years we've been on the field that the guys who consistently seem to get sacks and produce on the outside are the unheralded players that nobody saw coming. Babin gets picked in the first to get it done and he's not sacking anything these days. Orr is producing. Wong was going to be our sack machine when he came down here (remember the "dreaming of sacks" story from back in the day?) and instead it's Posey doing all the damage. Subtract 2003 of course because that year nobody got any sacks since all of our defensive line was on IR but you get the picture.

Peek was a situational terror but he doesn't appear to be able to keep himself under control well enough to be left in there. On the other hand why not leave him in there. Yeah he's a penalty machine but hey, at least he's playing hard and he does have the ability to get it done. Maybe if we leave him in there then he might eventually calm down.
 
phan1 said:
Capers has a great track record as a D Coordinator. He needs to take control of this defense and the fact that he hasn't realized this is why he's not a good head coach.
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That's the crux of the situation right there. He doesn't have the gut instincts to be a head coach. Remember when Fassel took over the offensive play calling because his man wasn't getting it done? Sure his offensive coordinator looked bad but hey, the Giants needed some wins or nobody was coming back. Eventually they all got sent packing but he knew that was the right thing to do. Capers will never in a million years become this teams HC/DC. He's incapable of seeing it.
 
It seems this team has a major coaching problem: when we have the lead, play to damn conservative. Both on offense and on defense.

I remember when Chris Palmer was still here calling plays back in the day and we would be leading 17-10 with 8 minutes left and we would get the ball and run 3 rushing plays and give the ball right back.

Then the defense goes on the feild. They quit what they have been doing all game by rushing the passer and go back into an 8 man zone and get burned by short passes underneath or receivers finding the hole in the zone. The end result--we play to conservative, the team comes back, and wins. A game we had in our grasp fades away because we don't know what to do when we get the lead.

How can a team blow a 10 point lead with 30 secondes left, and then a 2 point lead with 28 seconds left? I think this has been the teams problem from Day 1, not just this couple of weeks. You play a game for 60 minutes and if you have been sucessful for 52 minutes with the same strategy, when you better keep using it for the final 8. I think this comes from the Head Honcho, telling the coordinator how to play it. I mean this has been something for Day 1. All Capers has to do is say, hey, quit playing that way. Thats it. Either Capers has a communication problem, Fangio has a hearing problem, or they all need to be fired.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Wow!! On Fox Xtra both Dunta Robinson and Gary Walker were calling out the the coachs for poor play calling.
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Each of the last several weeks both have had stern looks and words for Fangio on the sideline during the games after such playcalling.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Wow!! On Fox Xtra both Dunta Robinson and Gary Walker were calling out the the coachs for poor play calling.
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That's a real bad sign. Gripe at the coach behind closed doors, but keep it out of the public.
 
No matter how right they are, PLEASE don't turn this franchise into the Lions. Keep it out of the media--I seriously doubt it accomplishes a thing. (Although didn't the defensive playcalling get more aggressive after Coleman let loose in the Chronicle pre-St. Louis?)
 
At this point, I really don't blame the players for vocalizing their frustrations a little bit. They kept their mouths shut long enough. There are players' reputations and careers on the line here too. It's not just the coaches.
 
Between Walker, Robinson, Hoke, and Marciano there is a wonder how Fangio has not just resigned. If it is not one scowling or arguing with him then it is the other. Most of the players on this team see how successful they are when they are aggressive and they are tired of playcalling that does not let them be that way. Fangio mainly has the LBs doing zone work in practice, not working on blitz and pass rushing techniques. Just a bad coach.
 
Hervoyel said:
Capers will never in a million years become this teams HC/DC. He's incapable of seeing it.
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That's because he's loyal to his 'guys' to a fault. He'll never see how bad Fangio is as a DC, and if he gets another job as a HC (fat chance) with another team after being shown the door by the Texans, be it college or professional, he'll call up his good friend Vic and see if he's interested in being a coordinator. The most likely scenario is Capers will be shown the door, and then he'll land a DC spot with another team. If that's the case then I'll hope that he succeeds because Capers is a good guy, a good DC, but not a good HC.
 
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