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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

NastyNate said:
Very much so. I think the OL improvement creates the ability to utilize more TE receiving options. And the secondary improves the line on the defensive side of the ball. No D linemen is gonna get home when your corners can't cover 12 yard routes. Ball is simply out too fast.
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So we largely agree on priorities. I just value JC more then you. It is infuriating though to see a guy with so much talent not get more production as a pass rusher.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Beside concerns over his ticking time bomb knee situation, the way I have perceived Clowney is "almost got there.........almost made the play............almost." I believe there are other players that can take the role of "almost"...........at a much more reasonable cost. At the cost he will command, you want someone who will actually make big plays............not just be known to be "disruptive."
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An article about big-name free agents I read the other day said that while Clowney was as you say disruptive but fell short of being a double-digit sack producer because he wasn't "pliable". I get what the guys saying but I like your "almost" analysis better.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Any examples of the guys who could take the 'almost' role?

They'd have to have 25 combined sacks and tfl while continuing on with a whole bunch more of those 'almost' disruptive plays.

Figure if there are more than a few of those guys readily available it shouldn't be a problem to rattle off a name or three real quick.
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You'd have to add in his countless blown edge contain plays as well.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I couldn't tell in all those words if you're asserting that Mercilus or Ejiofor would put up the production that JDC did or you're deciding to sidestep the question. Or maybe you're just saying that guys would get opportunities with Clowney not there ... and well, sure, other people would be allowed on the field in Clowney's absence. Opportunities =/= production.
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In 2015, the one year that Mercilus played Clowneys position, he had 52 tackles, 12 sacks and 7 stuffs. Last year Clowney had 47 tackles, 9 sacks and 10 stuffs. In addition Mercilus was much more disciplined holding the edge and didn't have all the bone headed penalties.
 
gs27 said:
In 2015, the one year that Mercilus played Clowneys position, he had 52 tackles, 12 sacks and 7 stuffs.
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The problem is, the 2015 Mercilus no longer exists. The 2019 Mercilus should probably be a cap casualty, if the Texans had cap issues.
 
Tweet from @Cody_Stoots: I really hope the Texans and Clowney get a deal done before July 15. If not we won't see him until basically week one of the season, and by the way, he shouldn't show up until then if he's stuck on the tag.
 
Tweet from @TexansCap: If Houston does indeed use the LB tag; expect Bus Cook/JD Clowney to file a grievance again, like what happened in 2018.
 
dream_team said:
I'm no doctor, but burning a year of rest isn't good?
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Nope. Still wear assuming he trains to stay in shape. It's not going to regenerate with time off.

TheKDog said:
Tweet from @TexansCap: If Houston does indeed use the LB tag; expect Bus Cook/JD Clowney to file a grievance again, like what happened in 2018.
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And like what happened last year they'll split the difference.

The league only makes the decision if forced. Teams & players typically work out a split based on snaps at each position.
 
zshawn10 said:
[McClain] Using the franchise tag on Clowney was no surprise. It's the non-exclusive tag. They can match any offer sheet he receives or accept two first-round picks.
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The Texans could also agree to take less in a sign and trade deal. Where Clowney signs the tender, the Texans trade him to another team for agreed to terms, and Clowney signs an extended deal with new team. Not predicting this will happen. I actually predict it won't happen. Just saying that it has happened like that many times.
 
Keys IMO Clowney's trade value--hard to determine but is all over the board and not just this MB. It's hard for some to take out the penalty when he was on sidelines. This stupid act shouldn't impact value. I tend to over value him because I think he will be over valued on market; especially by a team with lots of trade ammo like Raiders. Has been documented [New York Post]that Derek Carr shopped at combine and new GM saying he was a franchise QB. Carr has lots of dead money after recent extension but allegedly a savings of $15m if traded leaving dead $7.5 m. Carr's leadership was question in locker room and he had a sidelines incident yelling with Gruden. CBS Sports Jason La Canfora way back at beginning of 2018 season said Carr would be traded to Giants at the combine. Giants could trade for Carr or trade up to #3 for Haskins as some think. Would Raiders take Giants' #37 and their two 5ths? Could that round two then become part of a trade for Clowney?
 
gs27 said:
In 2015, the one year that Mercilus played Clowneys position, he had 52 tackles, 12 sacks and 7 stuffs. Last year Clowney had 47 tackles, 9 sacks and 10 stuffs. In addition Mercilus was much more disciplined holding the edge and didn't have all the bone headed penalties.
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So why would we want to put the tag on Clowney?
 
badboy said:
Keys IMO Clowney's trade value--hard to determine but is all over the board and not just this MB. It's hard for some to take out the penalty when he was on sidelines. This stupid act shouldn't impact value. I tend to over value him because I think he will be over valued on market; especially by a team with lots of trade ammo like Raiders. Has been documented [New York Post]that Derek Carr shopped at combine and new GM saying he was a franchise QB. Carr has lots of dead money after recent extension but allegedly a savings of $15m if traded leaving dead $7.5 m. Carr's leadership was question in locker room and he had a sidelines incident yelling with Gruden. CBS Sports Jason La Canfora way back at beginning of 2018 season said Carr would be traded to Giants at the combine. Giants could trade for Carr or trade up to #3 for Haskins as some think. Would Raiders take Giants' #37 and their two 5ths? Could that round two then become part of a trade for Clowney?
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Didn't the Giants win a Super Bowl last time they had a Carr at QB?
 
I don't think anyone offers up a crazy offer for Clowney when they stand to lose a couple of RD1 picks. I think the Texans could get a reasonable deal if they want to move Clowney....maybe a RD1 and RD3. If those become the Raiders picks....it's better than expected value based on slot, their RD3 would be an early pick and the RD1 would probably be their 27.

If Texans had RD1-23 & 27.....Texans could reasonably have McCoy and Risner still on the board. They could have Love and Johnson there in RD2. A DE/EDGE and WR could still be on the board in RD3.

The plus in this move, having (2) RD1-23 & 27, (2) RD2-22 & 23, and (2) RD3-02 & 23 for the 2019 NFL Draft.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I don't think anyone offers up a crazy offer for Clowney when they stand to lose a couple of RD1 picks. I think the Texans could get a reasonable deal if they want to move Clowney....maybe a RD1 and RD3. If those become the Raiders picks....it's better than expected value based on slot, their RD3 would be an early pick and the RD1 would probably be their 27.

If Texans had RD1-23 & 27.....Texans could reasonably have McCoy and Risner still on the board. They could have Love and Johnson there in RD2. A DE/EDGE and WR could still be on the board in RD3.

The plus in this move, having (2) RD1-23 & 27, (2) RD2-22 & 23, and (2) RD3-02 & 23 for the 2019 NFL Draft.
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I really don't see the Raiders trading for Clowney. They have been unloading players and focusing on rebuilding through the draft.
 
badboy said:
Keys IMO Clowney's trade value--hard to determine but is all over the board and not just this MB. It's hard for some to take out the penalty when he was on sidelines. This stupid act shouldn't impact value. I tend to over value him because I think he will be over valued on market; especially by a team with lots of trade ammo like Raiders. Has been documented [New York Post]that Derek Carr shopped at combine and new GM saying he was a franchise QB. Carr has lots of dead money after recent extension but allegedly a savings of $15m if traded leaving dead $7.5 m. Carr's leadership was question in locker room and he had a sidelines incident yelling with Gruden. CBS Sports Jason La Canfora way back at beginning of 2018 season said Carr would be traded to Giants at the combine. Giants could trade for Carr or trade up to #3 for Haskins as some think. Would Raiders take Giants' #37 and their two 5ths? Could that round two then become part of a trade for Clowney?
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There is something that seems to be glossed over. His "lining up in the neutral zone/offsides" that have been a regular staple of his play, has repeatedly impacted games negatively......many times at crucial times with crucial consequences.

From what I posted Dec 27 last season:

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Matt Hammond‏Verified account@MattHammondShow

Jadeveon Clowney: - 110 penalty yards - 9.0 sacks, 74 yards lost - 15 tackles for loss Let’s say those TFL were, on average, good for a 2-3 yard loss. That means his penalties completely negate the sacks tackles for loss.

5:33 PM - 27 Dec 2018
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CloakNNNdagger said:
There is something that seems to be glossed over. His "lining up in the neutral zone/offsides" that have been a regular staple of his play, has repeatedly impacted games negatively......many times at crucial times with crucial consequences.

From what I posted Dec 27 last season:

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Matt Hammond‏Verified account@MattHammondShow

Jadeveon Clowney: - 110 penalty yards - 9.0 sacks, 74 yards lost - 15 tackles for loss Let’s say those TFL were, on average, good for a 2-3 yard loss. That means his penalties completely negate the sacks tackles for loss.

5:33 PM - 27 Dec 2018
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Comparing yards alone is still a false equivalency. It was 16 TFL by the way. That's 25 losses of down as well as the yardage. He also had 21 QB hits, how many of those passes were errant? His offside, encroachment & neutral zone infractions directly resulted in 1 1st down.
 
Mollywhopper said:
He's far from perfect, but I don't know that I've ever seen one player with as much actual production get as much grief.
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I think most people in the "Anti-Clowney" group dislike what they perceive is his personality more than the actual player on the field.

Now it's time to pay up on an extension and Clowney feels he is worth more than what a lot of Texans fans personally feel, so with a potential holdout on the horizon it just confirms their opinion of him.

I don't blame Clowney one bit though. In his shoes, I'd likely do the same thing. Problem is fans root for the laundry over the individual player.
 
disaacks3 said:
Yep. When he's on, Clowney can be extremely disruptive, but, is it often enough to give him the high-dollar, guaranteed $$ contract he wants?

2 First Round picks can go a long way towards filling other holes.
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I'm a fan, but does anyone believe he'll fetch two 1sts & a big contract?

At most, considering the contract as well maybe we'll get a future 1st or a current 2nd.

& I can't see the Texans letting him go for that.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm a fan, but does anyone believe he'll fetch two 1sts & a big contract?

At most, considering the contract as well maybe we'll get a future 1st or a current 2nd.

& I can't see the Texans letting him go for that.
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There's really no choice in the matter. As a non-exclusive Franchise tender, we get to match any offer. If we don't, we get two 1sts. ...and yes, I think there are teams out there willing to spend stupid $$$.
 
theCATALYST said:
According to the info on this link, the Colts could do some damage by using some of their cap space to throw at JD.

"It’s a win-win for the Colts: Either they end up with a blue-chip free agent at a major position of need, or the Texans are forced to overpay for Clowney." ~ Steven Ruiz

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/03/jadeveon-clowney-franchise-tag-texans-colts
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If the Colts are willing (Doubtful) to give up two 1st's for Clowney, them let them have at it and I'm a fan of Clowney's.
 
Mari-OWNED! said:
I think most people in the "Anti-Clowney" group dislike what they perceive is his personality more than the actual player on the field.

Now it's time to pay up on an extension and Clowney feels he is worth more than what a lot of Texans fans personally feel, so with a potential holdout on the horizon it just confirms their opinion of him.

I don't blame Clowney one bit though. In his shoes, I'd likely do the same thing. Problem is fans root for the laundry over the individual player.
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Agreed and I dont blame Clowney one bit.

For me, it's more about how long is that micro-fracture surgery going to hold out. I'm not willing to bet 70 mil on it lasting 5 yrs.

The former GM would've already extended him and next yr that knee would've blown up into 1,000 pieces. Then fans would talk about how unlucky the Texans franchise is, even though CnD has told us Clowney's eventual fate. From what I've taken from CnD's posts Clowney's knee is living on borrowed time. If I remember correctly he predicted that Clowney's surgery would last 2-3 yrs and that even if it did last longer his quality of play would suffer. Last yr was yr 3.

Maybe CnD can weigh in on this because I could be wrong.
 
disaacks3 said:
There's really no choice in the matter. As a non-exclusive Franchise tender, we get to match any offer. If we don't, we get two 1sts. ...and yes, I think there are teams out there willing to spend stupid $$$.
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willing to spend stupid cash yes, but willing to spend stupid cash and give up 2 firsts.....no.

The non exclusive tag is the franchise tag always used on a player. The exclusive tag has been used a whopping 2 times, on Drew Brees and Von Miller. How often do you hear of another team signing a player off of the non exclusive tag? NEVER. Why? because teams generally don't want to spend big cash and give up valuable picks for 2 guy.
 
Shishkabob said:
willing to spend stupid cash yes, but willing to spend stupid cash and give up 2 firsts.....no.

The non exclusive tag is the franchise tag always used on a player. The exclusive tag has been used a whopping 2 times, on Drew Brees and Von Miller. How often do you hear of another team signing a player off of the non exclusive tag? NEVER. Why? because teams generally don't want to spend big cash and give up valuable picks for 2 guy.
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I would've given up to 1sts for Brees, before they got Watson.
 
infantrycak said:
No they do not. Link

He had 9 encroachment, offside, neutral zone penalties. Only 1 in the 4th qtr of the 2nd Indy game was on a distance to 1st down of less than 5 yds, 3rd & 1. The other 8 were 9+ yards to go.

It's right there in both charts.
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Thanks, I misinterpretted the yds. But tell me that loss of 5 yds at any down does not have significant negative impact on subsequent plays and their results.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Agreed and I dont blame Clowney one bit.

For me, it's more about how long is that micro-fracture surgery going to hold out. I'm not willing to bet 70 mil on it lasting 5 yrs.

The former GM would've already extended him and next yr that knee would've blown up into 1,000 pieces. Then fans would talk about how unlucky the Texans franchise is, even though CnD has told us Clowney's eventual fate. From what I've taken from CnD's posts Clowney's knee is living on borrowed time. If I remember correctly he predicted that Clowney's surgery would last 2-3 yrs and that even if it did last longer his quality of play would suffer. Last yr was yr 3.

Maybe CnD can weigh in on this because I could be wrong.
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Borrowed time is the best way to represent it.
 
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