thetexanator
Veteran
someone that has a chance to be there at 16 but your just not seeing it.
shane ray olb missouri. guy looks like jason babin all over again.
shane ray olb missouri. guy looks like jason babin all over again.
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The Guy You DONT want at 16.
- Thread starter thetexanator
- Start date
thetexanator
Veteran
this is basically every safety thats come out in the past few years. but yeah i dont like him too much either.
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Collins, Parker, and Strong for me
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I don't want a running back.
I'd prefer someone who's going to be a starter and contribute quality minutes from the get-go. So I'd find it hard to get excited about an offensive lineman or a corner.
I'd prefer someone who's going to be a starter and contribute quality minutes from the get-go. So I'd find it hard to get excited about an offensive lineman or a corner.
Being a native Missourian and therefore still somewhat of a MIzzou fan, I've been wondering about this guy ? I only saw one of Mizzou' gamea last year, and it was a bowl game and I tuned in just when Ray was getting tossed from the game by the offiials for a dirty hit, sportsmanship, or whatever ?
So this guy in't very big but lots of analysts see him only as a 4-3 DE (and not possibly as a 3-4 OLB), which seems odd ? But mocks have him all over the place ? So there's that comparison to Babin, who was a hand in the dirt DE and as we know all too well couldn't successfully convert to a rush outside backer.
I can't quite agree with this. If one of the top two fall to us (especially Gurley), I'd be all for upgrading from Blue and having a guy that can take over for Foster if he gets hurt for an extended period and for when his contract runs out in 2017 - he'll be right aroun30 by then. yeah, I know some think we can just grab one next draft. Hell, if he comes on strong that gives us the option to try and move Foster next season.
But I'd take Gurley before I'd take a WR not named White, Parker, or Cooper. Or a DL not named Sheldon.
I wouldn't be upset with Gurley at #16 provided he was our top player on the board and we then did something to improve the OL. We're gonna need a strong running game, and Gurley could be a difference maker
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I think there are going to be plenty of guys available in the 2nd and 3rd round that will be able to fill that role. And I don't think OB, with the New England type of RB-by-committee mind-set, really cares if he has a 3-down workhorse like Arian. He'll use him since he's got him, but he's not going to go out and look for another unless one falls into his lap.
I think the RB-by-committee has been driven more by circumstance than philosophy. Belichick rode Antowain Smith to his first SB in 2002 and rode Correy Dillon to another two years later. Belichick's last 1000-yd back was Jarvis Green-Ellis in 2010; they went 14-2 that year. So if they have the talent at RB, they'll use it.
So will O'Brien.
In fact that's why (I believe) he consistently said Foster was the engine that drove the offense last year. And why not take the pressure off of Mallett/Hoyer (I'm still not sure who will start) with a strong running attack and solid defense. Let Mallett/Hoyer grow into a solid (franchise?) QB without the pressure of having to carry the team for a year or two. Makes sense to me, especially considering that or WR corps is Hopkins (stud), Shorts (maybe), and some whodats.
Edit: Besides, don't you think that Gurley still being available at 16 counts as "falling into our lap"?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
So if you say "If they have the talent at RB, they'll use it", it's different than when I say it?
Edit: Besides, don't you think that Gurley still being available at 16 counts as "falling into our lap"?
No. I expect him to be a mid-to-late first round pick. If he's sitting there for us in the middle of the second round, THEN I'll count it as falling into our laps.
Gurley/Gregory too much risk at 16
So if you say "If they have the talent at RB, they'll use it", it's different than when I say it?
No. I expect him to be a mid-to-late first round pick. If he's sitting there for us in the middle of the second round, THEN I'll count it as falling into our laps.
If Gurley ys sitting there in the miffle of the 2nd rd and say Dorsett/Devin Smith are there too and a WR isn't picked in the 1st who do you pick?
I honestly dont know who I would pick.
If Gurley makes it to 51, I'm running to the podium with his name on my card.
But if we didn't take a WR with the #16 pick, who the Eff did we take?? I'm going to be slightly miffed if its not Sheldon or Armstead or one of the big three WRs.
Just guessing but I think McKinney/Shelton/Brown are in their sights at 16.
those picks works for me.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I have five. I have favorites, but could probably convince myself to be happy with any pick unless it's one of these:
QB Winston - He won't be there but if he fell to me I'd use him to trade back if I could. If I couldn't I'd take someone else. Bad on-field decision maker. I don't like that in a QB regardless of his physical traits.
OT Ogbuehi - I have him graded in the 3rd round but he still has 1st round stock according to some so I'll list him. I'm not high on him at all.
OLB Gregory - His entire draft grade is based on his frame and athleticism. He's a total blank slate. Some people like that. I don't. That scares me.
ILB Perryman - Two down LB who doesn't do anything better than a broken Cushing already does. I love his mentality, but not his skill set.
SS Collins - 1st round athlete but not a 1st round football player. He'll be a good pro SS, but he is limited in coverage and that will hurt his overall versatility. I can get basically the same player later in the draft.
QB Winston - He won't be there but if he fell to me I'd use him to trade back if I could. If I couldn't I'd take someone else. Bad on-field decision maker. I don't like that in a QB regardless of his physical traits.
OT Ogbuehi - I have him graded in the 3rd round but he still has 1st round stock according to some so I'll list him. I'm not high on him at all.
OLB Gregory - His entire draft grade is based on his frame and athleticism. He's a total blank slate. Some people like that. I don't. That scares me.
ILB Perryman - Two down LB who doesn't do anything better than a broken Cushing already does. I love his mentality, but not his skill set.
SS Collins - 1st round athlete but not a 1st round football player. He'll be a good pro SS, but he is limited in coverage and that will hurt his overall versatility. I can get basically the same player later in the draft.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Injured guy. I don't want injured guy, and I want all team doctors/trainers fired and better/smarter ones hired so the football guys can reliably discover the second guy I don't want -- hidden injured guy.
Combine guy. Great combine, crappy tape. Want football success not potential.
Don't want fat guy, either. Problems with weight, food... can be a bugger.
Fat injured guy?
Hurt guys stay hurt.
Injured guys stay injured.
Potential means you haven't done it, yet.
Combine guy. Great combine, crappy tape. Want football success not potential.
Don't want fat guy, either. Problems with weight, food... can be a bugger.
Fat injured guy?
Hurt guys stay hurt.
Injured guys stay injured.
Potential means you haven't done it, yet.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Assuming we took McKinney/Shelton/Brown (or even a Beasley or a Kendricks), and Gurley was sitting there for us in the 2nd round along with Dorsett/Smith... I'd probably have a nervous breakdown.
Part of me is still in the mind-set that I had during the Kubiak era (which Kubiak did not share with me) which is to draft RBs early and late hoping to get lucky just because the running game is the most important part of the offense. If this was still that era, I'd be all over Gurley and frankly, I'd probably be with Obsiwan and push for drafting him in the 1st.
But with this era and the way I THINK OB wants this offense to work... I take Dorsett and don't look back.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
If my medical team is convinced on Gurley's recovery then I take Gurley without hesitation. If they are not convinced then he is off my board and I'm not so sure I take Dorsett or Smith. Would depend on how the board fell. I'm not nearly as high on those two as others are.
Dorsett worries me. Not a fan of micro-WRs. I like BIG, PHYSICAL targets. When we do run, I don't want to have to take mini-me off the field because he can't block. Saw enough of that with D.Johnson this past season.
And again, I think a two-headed/two-stud running attack will take the pressure off of Mallett/Hoyer (not to mention eat clock and keep the defense fresh). That's how Belichick did it with Brady when he lett A.Smith then C. Dillon carry the offense in Tom Terrific's early years.
Oh man, think of a sledgehammer like Gurley mixed in with a shifty, pass-catcher like Foster... opposing defenses wouldn't know whether to s#!t or go blind. Meanwhile Vince and J.J. are fresh and ready to tear new A-holes into the opposing offenses.
...sorry... went into fantasy mode there.
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beerlover
Hall of Fame
this ^^^^
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
2004 Jason Babin Defensive end
2005 Travis Johnson
2006 Mario Williams Defensive end
2007 Amobi Okoye Defensive tackle
2009 Brian Cushing Outside linebacker
2011 J. J. Watt Defensive end
2012 Whitney Mercilus Defensive end
2014 Jadeveon Clowney Defensive end South Carolina
7 out of the last 10 years we've taken an outside rush guy or a defensive lineman. As you can see from the list above, we're batting well below the mendoza line despite the revelation that is JJ Watt. So its not so much a specific guy i don't want to see drafted at 16, but rather a specific area. We've all complained about the speed on offense for the last 2-4 years being below average relative to the rest of the league. It's time we addressed that with an offensive pick....or at least get some better talent skill guys to build around.
I honestly don't want to see another pass rush guy brought in here...
2005 Travis Johnson
2006 Mario Williams Defensive end
2007 Amobi Okoye Defensive tackle
2009 Brian Cushing Outside linebacker
2011 J. J. Watt Defensive end
2012 Whitney Mercilus Defensive end
2014 Jadeveon Clowney Defensive end South Carolina
7 out of the last 10 years we've taken an outside rush guy or a defensive lineman. As you can see from the list above, we're batting well below the mendoza line despite the revelation that is JJ Watt. So its not so much a specific guy i don't want to see drafted at 16, but rather a specific area. We've all complained about the speed on offense for the last 2-4 years being below average relative to the rest of the league. It's time we addressed that with an offensive pick....or at least get some better talent skill guys to build around.
I honestly don't want to see another pass rush guy brought in here...
Jalen Collins
Why do you not want him? All I've heard about him sounds good
Who would rush the QB if (God forbid) something happened to Watt? If Clowney can't come back from what is a very serious situation then we are left with Merciless and and big fat ? mark at OLB. We HAVE to improve our OLB situation. Given the depth of the WR class we could wait until rd 2-3 and still grab a difference maker. We are so close to having a ridiculously good D, one more guy to pressure the QB might put us over the top. Also, if the division runs through Indy, we better find a way to put pressure on Luck.
I don't hate the kid or anything, he's clearly got talent. He just screams potential to me right now. It's gonna take a good deal of tinkering with his technique before a good route runner doesn't eat him alive. While I wouldn't be jumping up and down if we took any corner at 16, I'd still prefer Waynes, Peters (his character stuff I think is overblown), Williams, or Johnson over Collins at any rate.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
The only way I want a running back in the first is if we trade to the tail end of the round and get a huge haul for it. Otherwise, no RB.
-Or injured guy.
-Or secretly injured guy.
-Or Combine super athlete bad player guy.
-Or A Chris Boreland type who calls it quits after a season or 2.
-Or Unmotivated guy who has now made it because his bank account says so and now refuses to make any effort to get better.
-Or The "phenominal fetus" guy who's mom is in her second trimester but "goly geez, he's projected to do great things!!"
-Or "Captain Supercuts" guy who uses haircuts to motivate the team - and refuses to spend any extra time at team facilities. His dad is overbearing and he often lays down in the middle of the field because of shell shock.
-Or Manziel club guy.
-Or injured guy.
-Or secretly injured guy.
-Or Combine super athlete bad player guy.
-Or A Chris Boreland type who calls it quits after a season or 2.
-Or Unmotivated guy who has now made it because his bank account says so and now refuses to make any effort to get better.
-Or The "phenominal fetus" guy who's mom is in her second trimester but "goly geez, he's projected to do great things!!"
-Or "Captain Supercuts" guy who uses haircuts to motivate the team - and refuses to spend any extra time at team facilities. His dad is overbearing and he often lays down in the middle of the field because of shell shock.
-Or Manziel club guy.
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El Tejano
Hall of Fame
The only way I want a running back in the first is if we trade to the tail end of the round and get a huge haul for it.
-Or injured guy.
-Or secretly injured guy.
-Or Combine super athlete bad player guy.
-Or A Chris Boreland type who calls it quits after a season or 2.
-Or Unmotivated guy who has now made it because his bank account says so and now refuses to make any effort to get better.
-Or The "phenominal fetus" guy who's mom is in her second trimester but "goly geez, he's projected to do great things!!"
-Or "Captain Supercuts" guy who uses haircuts to motivate the team - and refuses to spend any extra time at team facilities. His dad is overbearing and he often lays down in the middle of the field because of shell shock.
-Or Manziel club guy.
How about "Easier to Sign Guy"? Or "More NFL Ready Guy"?
We are due!!!
Exactly! Watt is our franchise player. Our only franchise player! Time to surround him with the kind of talent that will prevent offenses from being able to truly game plan him. I want to see what Watt can accomplish with that kind of talent around him.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Here's a novel concept...how about trying to build up the entire team and try to score more points on offense than the other team to win games instead of trying to completely shut teams down? Having a very capable offense can serve to give the defense that little extra bump of dominance they need if the opposition's offense is playing catch up all the time and our defense is well rested and in rush the qb mode more.
All I'm saying is the team needs to be balanced and we shouldn't be trying to create the 85 bears on defense just because a clear 2nd pass rusher hasn't emerged to help JJ. At least we've got options there. We have no credible options at WR and no real prospects at TE...and a rb fast approaching 30 with a ton of work on him already and injury issues. If a top rated rb or WR is there at 16, we need to go that route to starting building this offense.
The WR group is quite deep in this draft, the pass rushing group- not so much. You can grab a guy like Dupree to fill our OLB need then grab Devin Smith in the second and add a slot receiver in rd 4 and strengthen both positions. You can go a step further and add a TE that can actually catch as well. I just worry that the top shelf pass rushers will go early in this draft. I feel like the WR talent in rds 2-3 will be quite good and provide us with guys that can absolutely make a difference on offense.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Absent the ACL, I would have agreed. Now everything is conditional which drops the evaluation.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Blake
MMQB
Is it a talent issue, or a coaching issue? I would like to hope that Vrabel is up to the task.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
why not take that same approach with selecting a pass rusher since we already have options and decent prospects in the pass rushing department? We hadn't really seen anything from Barwin going into 2011 and didn't know what the hell we had in him opposite Mario..dude registers 11.5 sacks for us. & for all the disappointment in Mercilus as a top pass rush guy, he measures out from a sack/pass rushing perspective as guys like Cornelius Bennett and/or Carl Banks did when they were playing opposite greats like Bruce Smith and LT. Everyone can't/won't be a stud.
Aside from that, we have Clowney whom EVERYONE acknowledges has the talent to be that guy that we all want opposite JJ..we just need him to get on the damnn field. & Both of those guys are under 24 years of age and still have room and potential to grow.
Meanwhile the cupboard is pretty much bare at WR and TE. I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me that many of you guys would want to pass on taking one of top 3 talents at WR that would immediately bolster our pitiful WR core in favor of another pass rush guy to add to our collecting.... like John Gruden collecting qb in TB we're basically collecting pass rushers.
If we can get one of the top 3, then I think we have to. But if their gone, then let's get the top 1 or 2 of another position. If it's a position of need then all the better. I wouldn't be opposed to any position not special teams.
I guess, from my perspective, the WRs that should be available in rds 2-3 are superior prospects to the pass rushing talents that should be available. Using the nfl.com system of grading players (just for clarification purposes) if there's a WR and a OLB both rated as a 6.2 available in rd 1 at 16 and in rd 2 there's a WR that's a 5.9 and a OLB that's a 5.2, I'd favor going OLB at 16 and WR in rd2.
Don't get me wrong, we need WR help, I just think it can be added later, but hey if we end up with Cooper, White or Parker I'd be happy.
Merciless is a WOLB, effectively the same position as Clowney. I'm not even sure who our starting SOLB will be. To me that's a bad thing for a 3-4 D.
Don't get me wrong, we need WR help, I just think it can be added later, but hey if we end up with Cooper, White or Parker I'd be happy.
Merciless is a WOLB, effectively the same position as Clowney. I'm not even sure who our starting SOLB will be. To me that's a bad thing for a 3-4 D.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I'd say it's an "obsessed with what other teams qbs can do" issue. You could basically say that every pass rush guy we drafted up to Mario was in response to getting to Manning..Likewise every outside rush guy from JJ to Clowney has been a response to combating Luck. At the end of the day, it is my fundamental belief that good qb's don't get bothered by a good pass rush..............too much anyway. & in that regard you've got to stop thinking so much about how you're going to stop them and start thinking of other ways to gain an advantage over them. One of the most effective ways to do that is limiting their possessions by keeping them off the field.... and being able to score with them.
Furthermore, with all the rule changes pretty much favoring offenses these days, offenses becoming more and versatile with how guys are used and subpackages on top of subpackages, we need to start getting some offensive talent in here that can do that.
Right now it's be Simon, maybe they are really high on him
it needs major help now, it would be critical if and if and if, but our wr group is in critical right now with no ifs.
Some would say so is our TE group, the QB group, the OL group, the RB group, the safety group... etc...
badboy
Hall of Fame
Let's not be to quick to forget Jeff Tarpinian. He has had a full season with our coaches and just signed his RFA. 6'3 240 that reminds me of Jake Ryan whom I have in 5th round. Both were OLBs and looking very good when an injury sidelined them. Both came back to play MLB in college and did well. Tarp's pro day was crazy good in 2011 with 4.50 40 time, broad of 10'5" and vertical of 37". He had a hammy 2008 and a knee injury 2009. 2010 first game he broke a bone in hand and missed first game. He had 23 tackles next two games then played with a stinger rest of that season.
Then in pros he had brain surgery to remove a malformation with Patriots. He returned healthy and played well for special teams in 2013 and 2014 in Houston.
I think Texans want to see how he will do and he will get greater opportunity to show his stuff.
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...nian-proves-toughness-after-brain-5091823.php
http://hawkeyedrive.com/2011/03/25/pro-day-breakdown-jeff-tarpinian/
Then in pros he had brain surgery to remove a malformation with Patriots. He returned healthy and played well for special teams in 2013 and 2014 in Houston.
I think Texans want to see how he will do and he will get greater opportunity to show his stuff.
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...nian-proves-toughness-after-brain-5091823.php
http://hawkeyedrive.com/2011/03/25/pro-day-breakdown-jeff-tarpinian/
