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The continuing contoversy about how high to draft running backs

nunusguy

Hall of Fame
But the question of whether N.F.L. running backs are overvalued — generally not worth the attention and money paid to them — has intensified in recent weeks, as a number of unheralded and little-known players have taken leading roles with their teams.
Running backs may be the most interchangeable parts of a football team. Mel Kiper Jr., the N.F.L. draft expert for ESPN, said he would never choose one in the first round.

“I’ve been saying this for 30 years,” Kiper said. “The easiest position to find a player is running back.”
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Peterson was the seventh overall choice in April’s draft. Through eight games, it looked like a brilliant pick. Peterson had 1,036 yards and set the N.F.L. record with 296 yards in a game against the Chargers.

But Peterson injured his knee on Nov. 11. Chester Taylor played last week against the Raiders and gained 164 yards. It was the eighth-highest total for a running back this season; Peterson had two bigger games.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/sports/football/25giants.html
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Excellent article by the NY Times on this fascinating topic.
 

Specnatz

Hall of Fame
— Mel Kiper Jr., the N.F.L. draft expert for ESPN, said he would never choose one in the first round.

“I’ve been saying this for 30 years,” Kiper said. “The easiest position to find a player is running back.”
**
Peterson was the seventh overall choice in April’s draft. Through eight games, it looked like a brilliant pick. Peterson had 1,036 yards and set the N.F.L. record with 296 yards in a game against the Chargers.

But Peterson injured his knee on Nov. 11. Chester Taylor played last week against the Raiders and gained 164 yards. It was the eighth-highest total for a running back this season; Peterson had two bigger games.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/sports/football/25giants.html
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Excellent article by the NY Times on this fascinating topic.
Mel Kiper talks out of both sides of his piehole, wasn't he one of the morons hyping Bush who plays runningback.

Sorry Mel you can not have it both ways, if you do not believe that then stop hyping certain players.
 

kastofsna

Hall of Fame
what's his comment have at all to do with Reggie Bush? nothing. at all. just because he thinks it's an easy position to fill doesn't mean he also can't think that there are elite talent at the position that are more than worthy of a top pick. he was very high on Peterson.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Here's the crazy story behind 49ers running back Raheem Mostert's playoff breakout
49ers running back Raheem Mostert tore up the Green Bay Packers in the first half of the NFC Championship Game, carrying the ball 14 times for 160 yards and three touchdowns. At halftime, the 49ers were leading 27-0. He finished with 29 carries for a 49ers playoff-record 220 yards and four touchdowns as they rolled past the Packers 37-20. Next up are the Kansas City Chiefs in Super Bowl LIV on Sunday, Feb. 2.


How Mostert ended up in San Francisco remains a wild story.


Mostert played his college ball at Purdue, receiving only sporadic playing time until his senior year, when he rushed for 529 yards. He went undrafted in the 2015 NFL draft, ultimately signing with the Philadelphia Eagles as a free agent. Somehow, Mostert managed to cycle through seven different teams over two seasons; the 49ers were Mostert's seventh team, inking him to the practice squad near the end of the 2016 season. Mostert didn't have a rushing attempt until he got to San Francisco.
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Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
if I was a gm I would never spend a high draft pick on a rb

Arian Foster was UNDRAFTED !!!! just saying u can find some gems on the streets !!!
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Best way to draft great RB's is to provide a strong offensive line to open up holes for them. That really is the answer. Trying to find the next Derek Henry is like trying to find the next Bo Jackson. Find the right runner for your system that can catch screen passes well, and let the offensive line turn an average back into a good player or a good player into an elite one. Get yourself a committee of guys with different strengths and you're likely not paying any of them to much money that way. There are always good RB's in the 3rd round and sometimes even in the 4th.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
If the 2020 NFL Draft had Earl Campbell available at RD1-25 (if we had a RD1).....would you wait to make the pick?

Since I'm a "Trench" guy, even Earl Campbell would have trouble succeeding behind a mediocre to piss-poor OL and unimaginative play-calling. You want an ultra successful RB, get him an OL first and foremost. Never happens the other way around.

Hyde, Johnson and Higdon would be just fine running behind an OL that featured; LT- Tunsil, LG- Scharping, OC- Ruiz (Draft) / Martin, RG- Scherff, and RT- Howard.

With other skill position players on offense, defenses could never zone in on the running game b/c there's plenty of others to worry about with this offense.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
If the 2020 NFL Draft had Earl Campbell available at RD1-25 (if we had a RD1).....would you wait to make the pick?

Since I'm a "Trench" guy, even Earl Campbell would have trouble succeeding behind a mediocre to piss-poor OL and unimaginative play-calling. You want an ultra successful RB, get him an OL first and foremost. Never happens the other way around.

Hyde, Johnson and Higdon would be just fine running behind an OL that featured; LT- Tunsil, LG- Scharping, OC- Ruiz (Draft) / Martin, RG- Scherff, and RT- Howard.

With other skill position players on offense, defenses could never zone in on the running game b/c there's plenty of others to worry about with this offense.
Paying for the trenches typically ensures that you're going to have strong protection in the running game and the passing game as well. Its a much better investment. :handshake:
 

KTex

Noob
A lot of it really depends on the talent of the RB. You really want the guy who can move the chains and get a few yards when there's nothing there. That's the type that is the most valuable, even though the HR hitters like Barkley get all the press. However, if you can find a complete RB, one who can block and catch, and can get both the tough yards and take it to the house from anywhere, that guy is worth a high first.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Since I'm a "Trench" guy, even Earl Campbell would have trouble succeeding behind a mediocre to piss-poor OL and unimaginative play-calling. You want an ultra successful RB, get him an OL first and foremost. Never happens the other way around.
The 1978 Houston Oilers disagree with this
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
A lot of it really depends on the talent of the RB. You really want the guy who can move the chains and get a few yards when there's nothing there. That's the type that is the most valuable, even though the HR hitters like Barkley get all the press. However, if you can find a complete RB, one who can block and catch, and can get both the tough yards and take it to the house from anywhere, that guy is worth a high first.
You just described Taylor.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I knew since watching Adrian Peterson his freshman year he was going to be a stud in the NFL. So If im a team & i have the chance to take a talent like him him anywhere in the 1st round, im not passing on that unless there's an equal or better talent at QB....maybe WR.

Bottom line is , finding a rb is easy...................... if everything else in front of them is mostly in place. IMO though, that goes for any position including qb.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
I knew since watching Adrian Peterson his freshman year he was going to be a stud in the NFL. So If im a team & i have the chance to take a talent like him him anywhere in the 1st round, im not passing on that unless there's an equal or better talent at QB....maybe WR.

Bottom line is , finding a rb is easy...................... if everything else in front of them is mostly in place. IMO though, that goes for any position including qb.
Did you know from watching Arian Foster?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Did you know from watching Arian Foster?
The little bit I did see of him in college I liked, thought he could be a stud one day.....but in no way did I have the same feeling about him that I had about Peterson. Peterson just looked and ran like a grown ass man day 1 in college. Closest thing to Herschel Walker at Georgia imo....and I wasn’t even watching college football back then....but I see what people were talking about back then with him though.


Coincidentally though another Tennessee runningback I did feel was gonna be a baller in the NFL day 1. I remember watching Alvin Kamara against A&M...& then against Bama 1 year..wanna say 2016.. neither couldn’t do anything with him & I really like his running style.
 
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OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Zach Moss of Utah is going to be a steal......and the Texans shouldn't have to worry about the round in which they draft him.

Moss rushed for a 1K+ yards in his second season while starting 10 games I believe. Moss went for another 1K+ yards in 2018 but he did this in 9 games b/c of a knee injury which happened late in the season. The knee injury didn't slow him down b/c he was ready to in 2019 and did it yet again with another 1K+ season while starting 11 of 12 games.

Moss can also catch the ball which is a great trait for a guy with his size. What appeals to me immediately.....his ability to block and having no fear to lay the pads on anyone coming his way. That's a football player that could wind up doing speacial things for the Texans should they draft him.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The little bit I did see of him in college I liked, thought he could be a stud one day.....but in no way did I have the same feeling about him that I had about Peterson. Peterson just looked and ran like a grown ass man day 1 in college. Closest thing to Herschel Walker at Georgia imo....and I wasn’t even watching college football back then....but I see what people were talking about back then with him though.


Coincidentally though another Tennessee runningback I did feel was gonna be a baller in the NFL day 1. I remember watching Alvin Kamara against A&M...& then against Bama 1 year..wanna say 2016.. neither couldn’t do anything with him & I really like his running style.
Who coming out this yr has a running style like Kamara's IYO?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Zach Moss of Utah is going to be a steal......and the Texans shouldn't have to worry about the round in which they draft him.

Moss rushed for a 1K+ yards in his second season while starting 10 games I believe. Moss went for another 1K+ yards in 2018 but he did this in 9 games b/c of a knee injury which happened late in the season. The knee injury didn't slow him down b/c he was ready to in 2019 and did it yet again with another 1K+ season while starting 11 of 12 games.

Moss can also catch the ball which is a great trait for a guy with his size. What appeals to me immediately.....his ability to block and having no fear to lay the pads on anyone coming his way. That's a football player that could wind up doing speacial things for the Texans should they draft him.
Moss reminds me alot of Foster in college but his injury history is troublesome.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Who coming out this yr has a running style like Kamara's IYO?
I've spoken on Cam Akers on here before but he's the best comparison to him imo. His ability to run through contact & his shiftiness that doesn't allow defenders to get a good solid hit on him....... his vision in the open field........his skills catching the ball out of the backfield...he's damn near a carbon copy of Kamara to me. Interesting enough, NFL draft folks say he's comparable to Duke Johnson. But Duke never popped on film the way Akers does..the way Kamara did. Further Akers is a bit bigger, faster and stronger than Duke was coming out. For that matter he's a bit stronger and faster than Kamara was when he came out too. I've said that if he puts on a few more pounds he can be a 3 down guy, but I've since gone back on that & now think he would be best used in tandem with another back like Kamara was in his 1st couple of years to be most effective.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Moss reminds me alot of Foster in college but his injury history is troublesome.
He had single knee injury in college. His injury happened in the latter part of the season in 2018. He was ready and played every game except one in 2019.....while having a really productive season. I'm not certain his knee injury should count against him after a solid 2019.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Moss reminds me of Ray Rice..Kareem Hunt type. He's a very tough runner, but nothing else to me stood out about him but thats not necessarily a bad thing though I didn't really see gamebreaker in him...just a guy who can be solid for you & I could see him getting in the right system and being a nice piece for a team.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
1995) is an American football running back for the Los Angeles Chargers of the National Football League (NFL). He played college football at Western State Colorado and signed with the Chargers as an undrafted free agent in 2017.[2]
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Ekeler began the season as the starter while Melvin Gordon was in a contract disput
*
On March 16, 2020, Ekeler signed a four-year $24.5 million contract extension with the Chargers
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Can't believe that NFL teams are still drafting backs in the top 10, even top 5, when there's gems out there to be found like this guy.
It tells me that the scouting departments of many of these teams in the league are just incompetent or downright really lazy.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
The average NFL RB …. No , not worth a #1. But there are exceptional talents who are , maybe not in every draft.

But you can say the same thing about just about every position aside from punter , kicker and long snapper ...

Some positions are , teams reach for - like LT or edge rushers. Every year you see 3-4-5-6 go in the first round and not all of them are worth that pick - leaving better players at other positions later in the draft.

I'm picking talent over position … If there's a great RB talent on the board and no other positions of need with similarly talented players , I'd take that RB.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The average NFL RB …. No , not worth a #1. But there are exceptional talents who are , maybe not in every draft.

But you can say the same thing about just about every position aside from punter , kicker and long snapper ...

Some positions are , teams reach for - like LT or edge rushers. Every year you see 3-4-5-6 go in the first round and not all of them are worth that pick - leaving better players at other positions later in the draft.

I'm picking talent over position … If there's a great RB talent on the board and no other positions of need with similarly talented players , I'd take that RB.
This is how you build a winning team.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
The average NFL RB …. No , not worth a #1. But there are exceptional talents who are , maybe not in every draft.

But you can say the same thing about just about every position aside from punter , kicker and long snapper ...

Some positions are , teams reach for - like LT or edge rushers. Every year you see 3-4-5-6 go in the first round and not all of them are worth that pick - leaving better players at other positions later in the draft.

I'm picking talent over position … If there's a great RB talent on the board and no other positions of need with similarly talented players , I'd take that RB.
Picking talent > position ? Not me.
I would take a very good LT or very good edge rusher > elite RB because have you ever heard the expression that very good Left tackles or edge rushers are a dime dozen ?
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
2019 pro bowlers..

OT - Terron Armstead
OT - Alejandro Villanueva
OT - Charles Leno, Jr
ED - Danielle Hunter
ED - Olivier Vernon

All third rounders or later..

Every position can be found anywhere in the draft..
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Picking talent > position ? Not me.
I would take a very good LT or very good edge rusher > elite RB because have you ever heard the expression that very good Left tackles or edge rushers are a dime dozen ?

So you take the 3rd , 4th , 5th edge rusher / tackle over an RB like Emmitt Smith , Adrian Peterson , Earl , Eric Dickerson ?

Not me.
 
Best way to draft great RB's is to provide a strong offensive line to open up holes for them. That really is the answer. Trying to find the next Derek Henry is like trying to find the next Bo Jackson. Find the right runner for your system that can catch screen passes well, and let the offensive line turn an average back into a good player or a good player into an elite one. Get yourself a committee of guys with different strengths and you're likely not paying any of them to much money that way. There are always good RB's in the 3rd round and sometimes even in the 4th.
You may never find another Bo Jackson or Barry Sanders. I think they broke the mold on them. Henry and others, sure but those are 2 very special RBs.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
The average NFL RB …. No , not worth a #1. But there are exceptional talents who are , maybe not in every draft.

But you can say the same thing about just about every position aside from punter , kicker and long snapper ...

Some positions are , teams reach for - like LT or edge rushers. Every year you see 3-4-5-6 go in the first round and not all of them are worth that pick - leaving better players at other positions later in the draft.

I'm picking talent over position … If there's a great RB talent on the board and no other positions of need with similarly talented players , I'd take that RB.
My problem with drafting an elite level RB is their shelf life. They give prime production during their rookie contract, but when they want to get that big extension is usually when their production starts to dip. The LeVeon Bell, Melvin Gordon, Todd Gurley situations are what make me cautious of drafting a high-end RB.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
My problem with drafting an elite level RB is their shelf life. They give prime production during their rookie contract, but when they want to get that big extension is usually when their production starts to dip. The LeVeon Bell, Melvin Gordon, Todd Gurley situations are what make me cautious of drafting a high-end RB.
Great RB’s can have a nice shelf life depending on their HC and the way they’re used.

Earl Campbell was probably one of the very best but he Bum Phillips just used him up far to soon. I wonder what EC would’ve done in Miami with Shula and Marino? Those teams lacked one very important component....a RB like EC. Add EC to that group and I think Miami is a multiple SB winner and Marino might be the best QB to ever play the game.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
My problem with drafting an elite level RB is their shelf life. They give prime production during their rookie contract, but when they want to get that big extension is usually when their production starts to dip. The LeVeon Bell, Melvin Gordon, Todd Gurley situations are what make me cautious of drafting a high-end RB.

So draft them , ride them hard , put them up wet and let someone else pay for that big extension.

You can also trade them before the rookie deal expires or after using the franchise tag.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
So draft them , ride them hard , put them up wet and let someone else pay for that big extension.

You can also trade them before the rookie deal expires or after using the franchise tag.
This is exactly the trend w/ the NFL today. You're willing to spend a 1st round pick on a player that will only be on the team 4-5 years?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
This is exactly the trend w/ the NFL today. You're willing to spend a 1st round pick on a player that will only be on the team 4-5 years?

That depends upon the player.

Would you take 4-5 years of prime Derrick Henry , Christian McCaffery or Ezekiel Elliott on a rookie deal ? Sure you would …. No , you might not want to pay them after that but they are a bargain on their rookie deals.

Now the "average" RB …. no , I wouldn't want to spend that pick on them when I can get a comparable player later in the draft.

Yes , I'll spend a #1 on a well rounded workhorse type back for only 4-5 years , after that maybe you negotiate , maybe you tag & trade , maybe you walk away.

A good running game helps all other facets of the game - helps your QB , defense ….

The shelf life of a RB is pretty consistent with most teams window of opportunity too …. with so much turnover in the NFL year over year , teams don't stay at the top long. If you have that workhorse back during that window …. I think it improves your chances of winning the ultimate prize.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
That depends upon the player.

Would you take 4-5 years of prime Derrick Henry , Christian McCaffery or Ezekiel Elliott on a rookie deal ? Sure you would …. No , you might not want to pay them after that but they are a bargain on their rookie deals.

Now the "average" RB …. no , I wouldn't want to spend that pick on them when I can get a comparable player later in the draft.

Yes , I'll spend a #1 on a well rounded workhorse type back for only 4-5 years , after that maybe you negotiate , maybe you tag & trade , maybe you walk away.

A good running game helps all other facets of the game - helps your QB , defense ….

The shelf life of a RB is pretty consistent with most teams window of opportunity too …. with so much turnover in the NFL year over year , teams don't stay at the top long. If you have that workhorse back during that window …. I think it improves your chances of winning the ultimate prize.
This is a valid opinion, and a strategy some teams obviously take.

If I was a GM, though, this is an approach I would prefer to avoid. I would prefer to have a good OT, OG, DT, Edge, LB, or CB before I'd start pondering taking an RB that high.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Evidently, neither does anybody else.
That post was missing a word .... Hated Clowney leaving.

I didn't hate the guy at all , but no , I didn't think he was worth the asking price.

Much like Reader leaving this offseason - I think his loss will have the biggest impact on the season as a whole - greater than losing Hopkins. But for a 2 down player , I couldn't allocate that much cap space to him , particularly when we knew we'd have to overpay Tunsil and also having Watson & Fuller & coming due .... and that was before the issue of the cap shrinking by 30% or more.
 


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