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The 1st team defense sucked!

Marcus

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
I don't care if we ever win any preseason game. It's worth nothing.

But what I do care about is how the 1st team goes up against their 1st team, and against the Raiders tonight, our 1st team defense got chewed up. Now, I know it's preseason, and I realize that the staff is not going use any blitz packages. But if the Raiders could get pressure without blitzing, why couldn't we?

The main weakness of this team that past three years has been not getting to the opposing QB, and not protecting our QB. In this game, the announcers were saying those dreaded words that I heard way to often in previous seasons. Those words were "Too much time!" or "Look at the time!" And they never say that when the offense is on the field, only when the defense is.

I came away more disappointed from tonight's win, than last week's loss.
 
well i will say that the raiders did pick apart our defense. but that IS going to happen when there is no pass rush.

add a consistent pass rush and those passing yards will get cut down tremendously. collins did have too much time though. i saw babin going up against gallery and he was getting extremely frustrated, even on the run play babin couldnt get away to make the tackle.

it all starts up front
 
Oh, is that why we gave Collins all night to throw the ball and carve up the secondary, because we don't want give the regular season opponents film to study? :ok: :goodnight
 
I agree. We were terrible. We looked extremely undersized and overmatched. Peek looked like he had no idea how to read pass versus run, and was totally unable to get away from the blocker on him. The secondary were left to fend for themselves as Collins looked like he never had to get out of his armchair to throw the ball. Very disappointed indeed.
 
I liked the overall look of the D. Faggins gave up 2 big big plays that reslulted in Oaks 14/17 points.

Faggins has the right positioning, and angle on the ball in the endzone, catches it, and gets it ripped away from a WR. That is weak. The other he just got burrned.

I think you guys are going a litle overboard here. They held Moss to 2 catches for 23 yards. They picked off Collins in the endzone.

Faggins just needs to correct his mistakes. No need to sacrifice the whole Defense for it.
 
OK, but why were we so succeptable to the run? We looked horrible. I could not believe how many times the cutback lane was open because the linebackers could not get off of their blocks.
 
wrestler4life said:
OK, but why were we so succeptable to the run? We looked horrible. I could not believe how many times the cutback lane was open because the linebackers could not get off of their blocks.
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The raiders are going to get yards. You cant stuff an offense, with those weapons, and that big line every play. They are going to get their yards.

You just have to limit them, and try to make the big plays.

I saw the same thing. I saw the cutback lanes open. But I also saw his first holes close up, forcing him to cutback.
 
Marcus said:
I came away more disappointed from tonight's win, than last week's loss.
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It's nice to know I wasn't the only one. I don't consider myself a *fair weather fan*. I understand the game. There were too many mistakes, even for a pre-season game.

I firmly believe we didn't *win* the game...we just, by the grace of Brown's leg, didn't *lose* it.

I'm so TIRED of getting inside the 5 and settling for a fieldgoal. We should be a LOT farther than that by now... :brickwall
 
I couldn't believe how much time Collins had. It seemed like he was taking a coffee break back there before passing to one of about 17 all-pro receivers. :shocked
 
DC_ROCK said:
I liked the overall look of the D. Faggins gave up 2 big big plays that reslulted in Oaks 14/17 points.

Faggins has the right positioning, and angle on the ball in the endzone, catches it, and gets it ripped away from a WR. That is weak. The other he just got burrned.

I think you guys are going a litle overboard here. They held Moss to 2 catches for 23 yards. They picked off Collins in the endzone.

Faggins just needs to correct his mistakes. No need to sacrifice the whole Defense for it.
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DC_ROCK, I didn't say anything about Faggins. Faggins getting burned twice didn't concern me.

What did concern me was that Collins had all the time in the world to throw the ball. You don't get pressure on the QB, then the end result will be the secondary getting hung out to dry. No amount of second half 'heroics' by the reserves, after Collins and the 1st team offense is is not playing anymore is going to diminish that. If they had remained in the game, it would have been a blowout. :embarrass
 
Hulk75 said:
People need to give credit to the Raiders O-Line they are a big bunch of dudes and played very well together.
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Wow! That's comforting. Do you mean to tell me that everytime we play against a team that has a decent O-line this season, we can look forward to seeing our D getting their heads handed to them???.

Swell! I can hardly wait. :yahoo: :rolleyes:
 
Ok, here's why I don't understand why everyone freaks out by a series or two in preseason...


Look at any regular season game...do you judge the performance of the team that day based on the first quarter? There have been games that we looked like crap in the first quarter and came back, made adjustments, and won the game (Titans game from last year for example, or even the Vikings and Colts @ home even though we eventually lost those.) And there are games where we looked great at the beginning but then lost the game in the second half......
 
Marcus said:
I came away more disappointed from tonight's win, than last week's loss.
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If we're talking about the defensive starters, and you are, that's a comment
that's hard to disagree with. Hopefully its just the inconsistency of preseason
and a LB corp getting use to new positions and working with each other. But
no doubt, these backers are the fastest crew Capers has put on the field
together so far and I know they are saving the real show for 9/11 and the Bills rookie. But I gotta admit, Collings seemed to stand back there for an eternity on some of the passing plays.
 
And to think that people accuse me of being a :homer: lol:

I know enough about this team to know that we are not going to win games this season by winning offensive shootouts. I want to see evidence that we are getting pressure on the QB. And I would like to see that without having to "manufacture" a pass rush by using some exotic blitz package.

Wong, Greenwood, Walker, Payne at least got their names called. Babin and Peek, as far as I'm concerned, never made it out of the locker room. In a 3-4 defense, where the OLBs are supposed to be the ones who apply the pressure . . . . . ??

I have good reason to be concerned.
 
two drives, our d looked really bad. i will agree that it was bad. But once again, our starting offense played 1 series and the raiders 1st team was in all of first half. Good thing is after 2 drives they couldnt score anymore(besides 1 FG). Collins still had too much time but after 1st quarter we looked better in the fact that we prevented the scoring to continue. we did seem easy to run against and WRs were constantly open. If our 1st team offense was in the whole half we would have went into the half tied or with the lead. our first team D looked bad, but the offense looked good and i must say that the raiders offense really is good and definately looked it last night. The thing that scares me more than our starting D is our back up offense. thay couldnt do ack. I ould have loved to see our first stringers out there as long as the raiders played theres. I would have also likes to see more blitzing from the texans, and im sure they are capable of putting pressure on QBs and stuffing runs, hopefully they get it together.

im not sure how good the raiders D is supposed to be but the starting O-line of the Texans looked pretty good against them. back ups looked crappy.
 
Doom Capers said:
They looked a lot better than our defense did week 2 of last years pre season against the Steelers.......
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I'll be interested to see if we can stop their rushing attack in game 2. Greenwood and Wong seemed to get lost in the shuffle at times last night.

One thing I did like about last night is CC Brown. He's always around the ball.
 
Doom Capers said:
They looked a lot better than our defense did week 2 of last years pre season against the Steelers.......
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Now THERE's an interesting comparison....especially considering how badly the Texans got thumped back then and what we came to see from Pittsburgh after that. But in reality it's apples and oranges, considering all the new faces and lineup changes in the first-team D.

Just for grins, I searched the game day thread from that Steelers preseason game and found the first-half stats: Here


I can't comment either way yet on the Raiders game because the game won't be broadcast until Monday over here (NFL Network), but I'll keep that in mind. So far I've only seen the few snippets of the game shown on "No Huddle" last night.

I just think it's a little early to expect the defense, with so many position changes and new personnel, to be firing on all cylinders. They'll keep improving.
 
texan_fan said:
It's nice to know I wasn't the only one. I don't consider myself a *fair weather fan*. I understand the game. There were too many mistakes, even for a pre-season game.

I firmly believe we didn't *win* the game...we just, by the grace of Brown's leg, didn't *lose* it.

I'm so TIRED of getting inside the 5 and settling for a fieldgoal.We should be a LOT farther than that by now... :brickwall
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The Texans are great in the red zone. I think your expectations are a little too high.
Last season, the Texans ranked sixth in the NFL in touchdown efficiency. They scored touchdowns on 59.1 percent of their trips inside the opponent's 20-yard line.

Their problem was getting to the red zone. They got that far 44 times, which ranked 20th in the league.
 
Our defense aint the Baltimore Ravens .....were young, we played prolly one of the best Offenses in the league next to Chiefs and Colts. We held their first offense to what... 14, 17 points? That's pretty good expecting that they will prolly avg close to 30 this year. I do agree Collins had too much time to throw, but maybe Capers ain't showin his blitz yet.
 
I guess we could say our 2nd and 3rd team Defense looked better than the Raider's 2nd and 3rd team Defense. That's a plus.
 
texansfan1974 said:
thanks for the 2nd and 3rd team defences or we would have lost this one. (does it matter. i think so.)
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or you could say we would have made adjustments, and with our first team offense the entire game used up more clock (they had an 8 minute drive).

Preseasons are good for evaluating individual talent, and I think to some degree you can evaluate the team as a whole, but you have to give them four full quarters to be fair.
 
Hey caddy.

If you'll check my posts from the previous week, I didn't make one negative comment about the offense. Not one!

Not getting pressure on the opposing QB was a big problem last year. After watching our 1st team not getting anywhere near Collins last night, I don't think I'm going off the deep end commenting about it. And I don't give 2 ****s if it is preseason. :challenge

And once again, if this defense can't put pressure on the QB without having to "manufacture" one with a blitz, then you can expect the secondary to get lit up.
 
I'm sure that scrimmaging against them for a couple of days before the game allowed them to get use to our D. Wait and see how the 1st team D looks against Dallas and Tampa. As far as I'm concerned its only the pre-season I'll start to worry if they don't show up in Buffalo.
 
I have to say, I do find it puzzling why someone like Dom Capers is unable to figure out a way, after three years, even with limited talent, to get to the opposing quarterback. Hell, Jerry Glanville is like the worst coach of all time, and even he knew how to wreak havoc with opposing passing games with limited talent.....Let's start sending more guys!!!
 
or 1st team D is not doing any special coverages, our blitz packages. HAHA some of you people like to jump to conclusions way to fast. This years D will be even better than the D we had in 02 !!!!!!!!
 
Marcus said:
No amount of second half 'heroics' by the reserves, after Collins and the 1st team offense is is not playing anymore is going to diminish that. If they had remained in the game, it would have been a blowout. :embarrass
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Collins and Moss played well into the 3rd quarter. But I guess you didnt notice that.
 
DC_ROCK said:
Collins and Moss played well into the 3rd quarter. But I guess you didnt notice that.
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You know as well as I do that the reserves on both teams, particularly on the lines, played the 2nd half. If you don't want to get the point, you don't have to. :ok:
 
Marcus said:
You know as well as I do that the reserves on both teams, particularly on the lines, played the 2nd half. If you don't want to get the point, you don't have to. :ok:
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collins and 1st team played 4 series while carr and 1st played one.
 
chill out marcus its only preseason the texans are getting better very fast i think they can win their division too i think your team is fine, its just preseason its alot different in regular season, in the regular season you are actually playing for something,alot of teams defenses are going to struggle against our offense, we didnt have porter or curry in the game but in the regular season you'll see our REAL offense and the texans REAL defense :)
 
TexansTrueFan said:
collins and 1st team played 4 series while carr and 1st played one.
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yea we had injuries on offense......lechler...treu...andrew walter..jerry porter..ronald curry....ect ect
 
MossSupaFreak said:
yea we had injuries on offense......lechler...treu...andrew walter..jerry porter..ronald curry....ect ect
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so whats that gotta do with ur first team O playing 4 Qtrs, while ours played 1 Qtr ????
 
TexansTrueFan said:
so whats that gotta do with ur first team O playing 4 Qtrs, while ours played 1 Qtr ????
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4 quarters???? we didnt play the whole game we played the 1st and 2nd quarter what game were you watching?
 
haha yeah on one post i said series and on the other i said quarters, my bad. But why do you think your starters were kept in there so much longer than ours ? i wouldnt tkae the risk if i was Norv !
 
TexansTrueFan said:
haha yeah on one post i said series and on the other i said quarters, my bad. But why do you think your starters were kept in there so much longer than ours ? i wouldnt tkae the risk if i was Norv !
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yea it surprised me too, i didnt like the idea at all but we had some guys missing this preseason game so we didnt really have much to replace
 
I really don't see what the big deal is. Capers was being cautious with Carr and there was a question as to if he'd play at all in this game. He was in for one series. The Raiders let Collins play a little longer because the way we were rushing him there wasn't much of a chance of him getting touched. Add to that the fact that they had Walter sitting out, and I don't blame them for letting him play for awhile longer. Keep in mind that we had much of our first team defense in for the better part of the first half. The Raiders 1st team offense just pounded our 1st team defense simple as that.
 
texasguy346 said:
I really don't see what the big deal is. Capers was being cautious with Carr and there was a question as to if he'd play at all in this game. He was in for one series. The Raiders let Collins play a little longer because the way we were rushing him there wasn't much of a chance of him getting touched. Add to that the fact that they had Walter sitting out, and I don't blame them for letting him play for awhile longer. Keep in mind that we had much of our first team defense in for the better part of the first half. The Raiders 1st team offense just pounded our 1st team defense simple as that.
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good points :)
 
texasguy346 said:
I really don't see what the big deal is. Capers was being cautious with Carr and there was a question as to if he'd play at all in this game. He was in for one series. The Raiders let Collins play a little longer because the way we were rushing him there wasn't much of a chance of him getting touched. Add to that the fact that they had Walter sitting out, and I don't blame them for letting him play for awhile longer. Keep in mind that we had much of our first team defense in for the better part of the first half. The Raiders 1st team offense just pounded our 1st team defense simple as that.
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it dont matter to me, i just dont think its smart of norv to risk his players health over a pre-season game.
 
Different coaches have different philosophies. Haslett and the Saints left his starters in for a good portion of the game well into the second half against the Patriots almost as if the game counted. Edwards left Pennington and Martin in for a couple of series against the Vikings.

There are alot of factors that come into play such as getting a new player used to your system, or getting the whole team used to a new scheme on offense or defense, and on and on. The coaches have to accept that there is some risk when you play your starters too long, but there's also a risk if you play your starters too little.

In Turner's case he didn't have as many options since he had some players out. He decided to get a good look at most of his starters over the first two quarters. Its not unusual for a team to play their starters for the first half in the 2nd preseason game. Again the way our D was playing there wasn't much of a risk to Collins, and Moss & Jordan saw limited action anyway. Their #2 WR Porter was out, and Curry was out too. Not risking much by playing Gabriel when you've got good depth at the position. Don't see what the fuss is about.
 
texasguy346 said:
The Raiders let Collins play a little longer because the way we were rushing him there wasn't much of a chance of him getting touched.
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Even though I don't believe that's why they played him that long . . it's funny anyways! . . :read:lol:
 
caddy said:
It didn't take long... just 2 days back... and we can tell that
preseason isn't for the team to see what needs work... It's life of death for you.... Sorry... but that's too funny.
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haha pre season is for starters to get un rusty and for unproven players to prove themselves as team worthy !!!! :ok:
 
Hulk75 said:
No, I well just expect 8 sacks a game like some people do. It shouldnt mater if the other teams O Line is good or not right?
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That is the difference between a legitamate playoff team and the inconsistancy of a possible wildcard team. I have to say the first team D did not look great against the Raider oline. Also our starting oline didnt give Carr enough time as usual. We will find out which one our young team is by the end of the season. With that said, I don't see preseason dictating our play or chances at a good record this year. We have play makers on this team who will get things done. We will get our W's this year.


Good pass protection and Houston will rule the world ah ah ah!!!! :evilb:
 
Guys something to keep in mind.....

In preseason you can't tell what is really going on unless you have a Texans polo shirt on and your pay check comes from Bob McNair. Only the coaches know what they are trying to do. In every preseason game there are hundreds of little "experiments" going on. Many of those experiments give the coachs really good feedback but often make the overall results look poorly. Plus they mess up the overall gel of anything team related.
Add that to the fact that during preseason the coaches are playing mind games and don't want any of their strategies revealed on film. Add that to the fact that most of the real starters never give it 100% during preseason.

The result of this is a game in which means nothing even to even to a very well informed fan. (Especially in the first few preseason games)

What can you get out of preseason?
You can tell if your new draft picks and free agents look good in their new uniforms.
 
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