Matt doesn't "normally" play poor, I don't understand why all of a sudden, he has "never" been able to play at this level. He's had some bad games...
Schaub is not a game manager, like Difer. To me, he's more like Warner without the arm.
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Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB
- Thread starter CretorFrigg
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Matt doesn't "normally" play poor, I don't understand why all of a sudden, he has "never" been able to play at this level. He's had some bad games...
Schaub is not a game manager, like Difer. To me, he's more like Warner without the arm.
He's also like Kaepernick. Without the speed and agility.
Good point, all is not lost.
Oh.. unless you're saying Warner was nothing but an arm. Like Carr.
Schaub is like Carr. Without the hair.
He's like Michael Vick. Without the dogs.
Like Dan Marino. Without the Isotoner commercials.
Someone find me a meme generator.
silvrhand
All Pro
silvrhand
All Pro
Premier
Rookie
the only comparison between schaub and warner is that schaub should be sacking groceries somewhere.. thats where it ends..
Really? I understand the hate & emotions stemming from his recent performance, but over his career, Schaub has played at a high level & we've won a bunch of games because of him.
If I had to choose a QB to run this system, Schaub would not be my first choice either. However, he is the one that Kubiak chose & he's been successful so far.
Unless his injury is affecting his play, there's no reason to believe he can't get back to that level.
We need to stop blaming Schaub for the four losses of 2012. In each of the losses the running game didn't show up & the defense gave up a lot of yards and a lot of points. I know we think Kubiak is an id1ot, but he's right. They were all team losses & there was a lot of room for improvement across the whole team.
In the Vikings game, Schaub led the offense to 6 points. Two field goals. Not winning any game with that type of performance. And the defense allowed 345 yards and 23 points. Not "a lot" considering the offense could not sustain a drive.
In the game at Indy, "special" teams allowed one touchdown and a Schaub interception setup another. The Colts offense registered 265 yards of total offense. The defense has played better, but it was the offense's inability to protect the football and score TDs rather than FGs that led to that loss.
If not injury, then what was affecting Schaub's play late in the season? Are the Texans going to waste next season trying to determine whether Schaub has a chronic foot condition that will only worsen? I realize that his contract forces Schaub on the roster. But there needs to be some contingency plan, for 2013 and beyond. The "beyond" is why the Texans should look very hard at this QB cllass.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
lmao @ "quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles"!!!
Classic Vinnyism, man!
We see this "running QB" trend pop up in the NFL every 10 years or so, like it's something new. I remember when Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper were predicted to be the "new breed" and I read many articles that unequivocally stated that the age of the pocket passer was quickly coming to an end.
Then Brady and Manning had HoF careers that basically told all the "experts" to STFU.
Now we are seeing the hype cycle renew itself with these young guys.
The rules in the NFL are certainly being tilted to favor offenses these days, and teams that will consistently find success will find ways to exploit these rules to their advantage.
However, I think these 'new' proto-type QBs will still have to evolve into capable passers simply because of the oft-proved tendency that age slows everyone down to some extent. Either through injury or natural decline, these cats will have to win early in their careers as "running QBs" because the NFL has a way of weeding out QBs who cannot consistently read defenses and make plays from the pocket at some point in their careers.
The NFL figures gimmicks out. The run & shoot never lasted, the wildcat is now considered trick, and with running QBs, the NFL figured out how to isolate them and forced them to make plays with their arms.
I think these younger QBs have some tools not available to previous running QBs. They have grown up learning advanced systems and techniques much earlier in life than previous generations, so I think their ceiling could be higher in terms of potential. But they will have to still learn how to read defenses and make the passes for a time when their legs eventually wear out and cannot be their primary weapon.
This. I've heard the claims too that insert X qb is going to change the way the QB position is played. Haven't seen it full-time yet.
I think that's a big Reason this year Cam Newton had early problems. Teams were better prepared for the running element of his game.
I said it early on in the draft RG3 is going to have a spectacular rookie campaign, but the real test is going to be seen next year and if his body can handle the beating that it took this year. He's also going to have to bounce back from major knee surgery to boot now.
To me, Aaron Rodgers is pretty much what you want in a prototypical QB right now. Guy has a quick release, tall enough to see over the line and while his running game doesn't give defenses Cam or RG3 nightmares; he can tuck the ball then run for a first down and throws very accurately on the move.
I don't think we NEED a mobile QB on the level of RG3 or CAm, but closer to the mold of Rodgers. Just a guy who can avoid pressure in the pocket, can throw accurately on the move, and I'd really like a stronger arm to get the ball into tighter windows.
Ugh on the Manziel love. Congrats on the first season, now go repeat it with the huge bullseye that the Heisman gave him. I think you're going to see a lot more QB spying on him next year by LBers and teams are going to dare him to throw more often as opposed to let him run free like he was able to this year.
A QB that can make some "off schedule" plays. Schaub is the least mobile QB in the NFL. He can't get out of his own way. I am trying to remember when I saw a QB as immobile as Schaub. Kerry Collins? Chris Chandler? Dan Marino after he tore his Achilles tendon? Schaub was never athletic for the position. But he wasn't the statue he became in the last part of 2012. Schaub's lack of agility combined with the inexperience on the O-line right side was a bad combination.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Drew Bledsoe? Specially in his last Dallas days.
That's a good one. Bledsoe and Schaub are a pretty good comparison, though Drew had the bigger arm.
Foster carried the ball 10 times for 15 yards. Tate had 4 carries for 17 yards. We're not wining with that kind of run game. We're not staying on the field with that kind of running. Our leading receiver had 7 catches for 97 yards. Our second leading receiver had 3 catches for 27.
Schaub's 2 INTs had a bigger role in that loss no doubt. But that game was also a big mismanagement problem as well.
I think the Texans should already know if his foot is a problem or not. If it is, they should have taken steps this season towards replacing him. I also do not see his contract as a hindrance anymore than Alex Smith's contract or Matt Flynn's. If they don't think we can win (Minny at home, Indy on the road) then he shouldn't be on the roster.
But Schaub played "relatively" well @ Indy & vs the Bengals, 66% & 75% completions. The Red Zone issues again are more than just QB issues.
tru80texan
Waterboy
The same Drew Bledsoe in Dallas that was eventually replaced by the more mobile Romo. I guess we got hope it could eventually happen here as well.
I do not disagree. I'm not sold that Shaub is less mobile than in previous seasons. I am not sold that his ability to make plays off-shedule has been diminished. I never thought he was any good in those departments to begin with.
But I believed we could win a Super Bowl with him before 2012 & I haven't seen anything to make me feel different. I do believe I may be understating his injury, I'll try to go back & look for evidence over the next few weeks, but watching the games, & I've watched several of them several times, I don't remember thinking he had an issue. Really, no one has until recently & the "idea" is spreading like a wild fire, with no evidence.
I think Schaub's play over the last 6 games or so is damning evidence. You might want to look at these yet again, if you have a strong stomach. There's no way the Texans are winning a Super Bowl with Schaub performing like this.
Well, you should do a little research on these contracts. Because if you think the Smith and Flynn contracts are similar to Schaub's, you are poorly informed.
tru80texan
Waterboy
I simply do not believe there is an injury to be found. The owner in his recent interview had a perfect opportunity to make an excuse for Schaub's poor play to diffuse the criticism & he did not. So add the owner to the list of teammates, coaches, & Schaub himself who not claiming he is suffering from any sort of injury. If you alone find an injury to schaub then you could possibly find a golden egg or the fountain of youth as well. The injury thoery is only spreading like wild fire amongst the fans because I gave yet to see mentioned by any media source. Most media sources & fans, from what I have encountered, seem to be chalking it up to 1 issue...bad QB play. Plain & simple. Let's just hope he gets it turned around next season is all I can really say.
So you believe NFL organizations are completely forthcoming with injuries? Maybe you should be the one looking for myths and monsters?
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I say Dante. Dan Pastorini talks about telling his O-line in the playoffs that it was up to them, because he would not be physically able to move out of the pocket.
Someone said you could smoke a cigarette between the time Schaub decides to run and the time his body actually starts moving.
tru80texan
Waterboy
During the season, yes to a degree. Depending on the coach some injury reports include quite a few players, but most of it is fluff & the players will play. Others try to downplay them & keep it a secret, but its REQUIRED by all to list injured players or the team could face penalties from the NFL.
Offseason, yes as well. Please tell me what a team has to gain by not informing anyone of a players injury that effected that players play who is taking tons of criticism for poor play? Answer...nothing to gain. No one is even hinting at an injury except those desperate to defend poor play from Schaub. I used to be one of the biggest defenders of Schaub, but I resorted to facts & stats as opposed to phantom injuries. If that's what makes some feel warm & fuzzy inside, then so be it but I will stick to the facts until something concrete from a worthy source is actually revealed. Until then, I wish you happy hunting in your search for that pot of gold.
Jules Winnfield
BMF
its quite pathetic how some schaub apologists are relegated to finding phantom injuries in order to rationalize matt schaub's piss poor play.
there's always some excuse when schaub puts up another fail.
schaub fans hate accountability. always looking for somebody else to blame.
It's pathetic how some posters never made it past a 5th grade reading level.
The guy you quoted, the Schaub apologist, is saying there is no injury. The guys hating on Schaub are saying it is because of his injury that he'll never play at a high level again.
The Schaub apologist you quoted is also not making excuses for Schaub's play. He's saying Schaub sucked & has to play better. No exuses.
Jules Winnfield
BMF
:mariopalm: :kubepalm: :wadepalm::vincepalm:
I was agreeing with the poster i quoted. That's why i augmented his post with mine.
If you werent so quick to hate on a fellow poster you would have recognized it.
Its quite pathetic a 40 year old such as yourself didnt have the reading comprehension to figure it out.
Sorry you didnt make it past 4th grade.
Your mother must be so proud.
That is if the player misses or is limited in practice. A player can participate fully in practice, but still have physical issues that hinder his performance in a game. That is what we are discussing.
And let's cut out the personal insults. Nobody that's smarter than a 5th grader posts here.
The point is still the same, none of the Schaub supporters are pointing to his injury as an excuse. It is the haters pointing to his supposed injury as reason to get rid of him.
Which is what he was arguing. & if you are augmenting tru80's post, then you're saying you agree Schaub can & will play better in the future.
Didn't the Jets get in trouble for not reporting Favre's injury, even though he participated in practice & played in all their games?
I believe it is also the reason Belichick fills out such a thorough injury report, since he got his hands slapped for the same thing.
tru80texan
Waterboy
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...xoGACA&usg=AFQjCNE_ivubhSUqQ2O_MGDWlqjp24BoLA
Actually you are incorrect concerning whether or not a player practices dictates if they go on the injury report or not. It's any significant injury that could cause a game to be missed regardless of player practicing or not. The link is a story of how the Ravens got their hand slapped by the NFL for not reporting an Ed Reed injury despite him not missing any practices.
I don't recall mentioning anything about 5th grade....
That was me. Got a little personal with Jules Winnfield.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Evidently, we have two MB members that are as naive about NFL injuries and NFL Injury Reports as they are new to TexansTalk. The NFL is the only game that requires such a report weekly........not for any benefit of the teams or their opponents but for the benefit of the boys in Vegas. The biggest running joke about the injury report isn't its accuracy but its reason for being in the first place. No other professional sport requires an injury report like the NFL and the assumption has always been that it exists solely to aid the business of gambling on NFL games, a huge (and underrated) driver of the NFL's popularity. Injury reports make it easier to feel safer about placing a bet. Those bets drive interest, and subsequently profit. The NFL puts so much importance on the Injury Report, that they fine teams a whole whopping $20,000 for not reporting injuries (that'll really break an NFL team's piggy bank) .......and the 19 times that has happened in the last 15 years were all because the players went stupidly public with significant injuries that their teams were hiding. Coaches have ALWAYS screwed around with their Injury Reports. [ Here's a pertinent 2007 USA TODAY article to that effect: Analysis: Injury report is game within the game ]
[And for a recent article that also tells it like it is: John Harbaugh sees 'no value' in NFL injury reports]
I have taken care of my share of Oilers and Texans players and their families over the years.........I could tell you stories of injuries that were kept hidden that would have your hair standing on end. When presenting my observations and opinions on Schaub and his foot, whether one may agree or disagree with them, those opinions are the furthest thing from a apologist standpoint.
Finally, you cannot see any reason that the team from the top down at this point in time would have to not admit to a post Lisfranc repaired foot specifically negatively affecting Schaub's performance? I would suggest that you give it one more good ole try for the Gipper.
tru80texan
Waterboy
I hear ya. At least they give warnings over here. The HT MB mods are letting the power go to their heads & hand out punishments w/out warnings. Then they don't want to explain anything & treat people like children. It's pure silliness over there.
$$$$, 29 milion garunteed reasons.
The Texans will never admit that Schaub is hurt because the will look like fools for extending Schaub and giving a QB who is barely functional in the Texans offense that much garunteed $$$$.
That takes egg on face to a whole new level, people inside the Texans org should be looking themselves in the mirror and asking the tough questions after a mistake like this is made. Be it, the medical staff, GM, coaches etc....
tru80texan
Waterboy
I'm well aware of why the injury report exists in the NFL. Its intent was to keep the gamblers away from the players after an incident that happened in the 40's if I recall correctly. So please dont judge my knowledge about the NFL, the Players, or the Texans based on my post count. I'm not saying I know it all, but I do my best to stay informed despite my post count not reflecting that to you.
As far as Schaub, I think I was clear that I don't believe an injury exists because Schaub hasn't displayed anything noticeable in his delivery, when he plants to throw, or when he scrambles. Not to say it isn't there, but at some point during the season it would've or should've been reported. Plain & simple. The Texans have not been known to risk players health, so trotting Schaub out to practice everyday & hiding his injury does not seem to be how they handle their business. Since then multiple members of the Texans, owner on down, have been questioned about Schaubs play & not once has injury even been alluded to. I'm not going to claim an injury exists w/ 0 evidence just because a player played poorly. Give me a little more from a worthy source & I will gladly entertain is what I'm saying.
I dont need a source, my eyes tell me his footwork is terrible, Pastorini said as much. His footwork was much better before the injury. Coincedence, I think not. If you cant see this then there's no need to continue this discussion.
This is the way the Texans have always done business from their inception. Remember Boselli, he was supposed to not play in the preseason and be ready for the regular season. He never played a down for the Texans. DDW, he was never on the injury report and then 2 wks later he developed a bone on bone injury. (Yea right) AJ's 1st hyperextended knee/hurt hamstring/ankle injury that needed surgery, Now Schaub's foot. all of these injuries have been un/under reported. Are you starting to see a pattern here?
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Im all for replacing Schaub, but really there is no good prospect worth a damn this year, unless we mortgage the future for Geno and even he is shady IMO. I think this year you let it ride, improve the roster and decide if Schaub or Yates is the guy if not draft one next season. We still need a better number 2 wr, ilb and nt, not to mention depth at RT, de, olb and s.
tru80texan
Waterboy
I think the conspiracy theory is a bit much to be honest. EVERYONE knew Boselli probably wouldn't ever see the field despite what was being reported, but it was reported none the less. Not hidden. Domanick Davis was every bit reported, but considering he was placed on the IR BEFORE the season then there was never an opportunity to put him on injury report. Here's a story on Davis to refresh our memories on how it transpired.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8DEAyHqxYvYr3f7vAmZteyw&bvm=bv.41248874,d.b2U
AJ's injuries may have been underreported, but once again it all goes back to the fact that it was reported.
All of your examples are hardly similar to what you are claiming that the Texans knowingly hid an injury & put Schaubs health in jeopardy in the process. Considering your claims did not prove that that is how they handle their business please forgive me for having my doubts that this conspiracy took place to justify Schaubs poor play only in a handful games late in the season. Bad footwork could've been an indication of injury, but that could easily be attributed to happy feet or a breakdown in his mechanics & fundamentals simply because he no longer trusts his o-line like in years past. Maybe you all are correct & it will come out in due time, but I think I will wait for before jumping on that bandwagon & claiming injury just to mask poor play.
I'm not claiming Injury is sole responsible for his poor play. But due to the injury I'm saying this is as good as it's going to get.
As far as the injury report goes, Yea Gary has always been a model of honesty/integity when it comes to the injury report. Just like all of the other HC's in the NFL. LOL
Garys mentor, Shaany let his QB play on a bum leg in the playoffs, but Garys different etc...
Lets just agree to disagree and move on. Nothing short of Gary coming over to your house and personally telling you is going to change your mind. I mean a respected surgeon is telling you the medical dynamics and you still will have none of this facts thingy. I should've known that your mind wouldn't change and I should've laughed and moved on.
As far as the injury report goes, Yea Gary has always been a model of honesty/integity when it comes to the injury report. Just like all of the other HC's in the NFL. LOL
Garys mentor, Shaany let his QB play on a bum leg in the playoffs, but Garys different etc...
Lets just agree to disagree and move on. Nothing short of Gary coming over to your house and personally telling you is going to change your mind. I mean a respected surgeon is telling you the medical dynamics and you still will have none of this facts thingy. I should've known that your mind wouldn't change and I should've laughed and moved on.
Other than Bridgewater next yrs class doesn't look too good either. I really like Bray and Dysert in the 2nd rd. Both have strong arms and are mobile enough.
What do you think about Bray/Dysert, or any other QB that you think might be a good fit?
I've been on this forum long enough to know that when you say a mofo is injured, that mofo is injured. Your observations have been vindicated far too many times.
There were times Schaub wasn't even following through on his throws. Either because the pain is still there or his confidence in his foot isn't back, Schaub was favoring that foot.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Honestly you can make a case for any qb and you can make a case why NOT to take a qb, the best part is though, almost ALL of the qbs we would be interested in will be in the senior bowl this week. Ryan Nassib, Mike Glennon, Zac Dysert, Tyler Wilson, EJ Manuel AND Landry Jones all in the senior bowl 9practices start tomorrow!!!!)
tru80texan
Waterboy
Lol! I never said that HC's don't manipulate the report. In fact I said quite the contrary. And once again, you allude to injury that was reported concerning Shanahan. Hardly the same case that you are making, but you are correct I will wait to hear it from Schaub, McNair, kubiak, assistant coaches, teammates, or even his wife before I acknowledge that that is the sole reason he played poorly. No disrespect to the doctor, but I would appreciate information from a source close to Schaub or the Texans.
Did Gary personally visit & tell you injury was the problem...please do tell. If not, then you are correct...let's agree to disagree & move on.
No problem I will give the Texans a call tomorrow. Who would you like to hear from?
BoB,Gary,Rick, Dr.Lowe or one of the parking attendants?
tru80texan
Waterboy
tru80texan
Waterboy
Are you not a member of the Johnny Football fan club...assuming that he comes out early? Just for the record, I don't think he will. Considering some of the Texans fans lovefest for Keenum, one could only imagine how some would react if Johnny Football came to town. Thoughts...
I didn't include johnny Football because I dont think he will be coming out.
He has the it factor and I believe he will be somewhere between a taller Flutie and a more mobile Brees. Yeah he's going to be good but probably not top 10 draftable because of his height. Yes I would like the Texans to draft him.
The Kubiak can do no wrong part of the fanbase will probably jizz their computers. LOL
He has the it factor and I believe he will be somewhere between a taller Flutie and a more mobile Brees. Yeah he's going to be good but probably not top 10 draftable because of his height. Yes I would like the Texans to draft him.
The Kubiak can do no wrong part of the fanbase will probably jizz their computers. LOL
tru80texan
Waterboy
Thats a nasty but probably accurate assumption. Lol!
As far as the qb's you mentioned earlier, I kinda want to watch the kid from Miami Ohio(cant ever remember his name, sorry)more before making a judgement, but what I have read he sounds decent. Bray, I do not care for. His 40 time is garbage & he seems to have maturity issues even by his own admission. That's all we need is the next Ryan Leaf.
Either way they both seem to be projected to be 2-4th rounders. I'm not sure the Texans will take a qb that early. I do want to see more from EJ Manuel from FSU. He is projected to go in the lower rounds where I think the Texans may consider taking a qb.
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They gave Carr $8M, they franchised Dunta & started him & he had no intention of playing very hard.
We're the Houston Texans, we've had egg on our face several times, check out our prime time performances.
If I'm Texans' management & I'm staring at HFA and a red carpet path to the Super Bowl and gimp-boy is my best option at QB, we're going to change the way we do things in Houston. After his New England performance & Indy performance, we've got serious problems if we don't think our back up can play better. (disclaimer: this is if I were of the opinion that Matt has physical issues.)
Going forward, if they know of an injury as serious as what CnD suggests, they will definitely do something different this offseason
All I'm saying, is if we don't see anything "different" this offseason, then the FO does not believe Schaub has a any residual effects from his injury & we can expect the better Schaub in 2013.
tru80texan
Waterboy
Let's not forget 1 of the biggest egg in face signings that actually makes the Top 10 Worst FA Signings- Ahman Green.
I am a skeptic on the lingering injury theory, no offense to CnD, because Schaub did play adequate early in the season & there conveniently was no mention of injury during that time frame. I am all on board for hoping that he plays better in 2013 because this team will go as he goes. That's obvious. I honestly hope they do consider taking a qb this year or next in planning for the future, but I'm not holding my breathe because it does seem that Smith & Kubiak are normally a year or 2 late when addressing issues properly. The DC & WR positions seem to be perfect examples of that.