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Texans waive Players

TheIronDuke said:
I have no idea, I was just saying that I couldn't imagine at least Cierre Wood not getting picked up. I wasn't arguing that you were wrong or anything.

But if these 3 guys leave and don't get picked up by anyone, what does that say about the quality of our team?
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The only reason I can even conceive of that would cause them to pass on waivers and sign them immediately is if claiming them off waivers denies them the right to require a physical and drug test, and signing them off the street gives them that right.

If that's the case (and I honestly don't know if it is), the it would be a pretty compelling reason under the circumstances.
 
For what it's worth:

Montgomery passes drug test after being released:

Sam Montgomery’s release from the Houston Texans was not due to marijuana use, as has been reported by ESPN.com. The former LSU Tigers star was among three rookies released by Houston for a team violation prior to the game against the Kansas City Chiefs.

Following his release, Montgomery voluntarily submitted to an independent drug test in order to provide further proof and evidence that he was not using illegal drugs. The results of those tests came back negative, confirming his statement that he was not using marijuana or illegal substances.
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This isn't to say that Montgomery didn't do anything else that would make getting caught smoking weed (or assuming as much) the final straw, but it's another wrinkle in the story.

In any case, it sucks to see Montgomery cut, both for his status as a third rounder and as a senior at LSU in 2011 who watched him tear up. Hope he finds a good team to sign with; preferably a 4-3 where he's naturally suited...
 
bhsman said:
For what it's worth:

Montgomery passes drug test after being released:



This isn't to say that Montgomery didn't do anything else that would make getting caught smoking weed (or assuming as much) the final straw, but it's another wrinkle in the story.

In any case, it sucks to see Montgomery cut, both for his status as a third rounder and as a senior at LSU in 2011 who watched him tear up. Hope he finds a good team to sign with; preferably a 4-3 where he's naturally suited...
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If that's accurate, good for Sam.
 
bhsman said:
For what it's worth:

Montgomery passes drug test after being released:



This isn't to say that Montgomery didn't do anything else that would make getting caught smoking weed (or assuming as much) the final straw, but it's another wrinkle in the story.

In any case, it sucks to see Montgomery cut, both for his status as a third rounder and as a senior at LSU in 2011 who watched him tear up. Hope he finds a good team to sign with; preferably a 4-3 where he's naturally suited...
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Heard theory on radio yesterday that they cut Montgomery at same time so they could cover up that they blew the pick. After the above info this sounds more plausible. I still think they are scrambling to save their job. Many of these actions probably should have been done earlier in season or during preseason. We all know this regime is very SLOW and slow to act. Joe still here. Kubiak still here. etc....
 
bhsman said:
For what it's worth:

Montgomery passes drug test after being released:



This isn't to say that Montgomery didn't do anything else that would make getting caught smoking weed (or assuming as much) the final straw, but it's another wrinkle in the story.

In any case, it sucks to see Montgomery cut, both for his status as a third rounder and as a senior at LSU in 2011 who watched him tear up. Hope he finds a good team to sign with; preferably a 4-3 where he's naturally suited...
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Did the team officially release a statement that they were released for drug reasons? Or is it still all twitter based backroom sources?
 
the ship is falling apart prob did these players a favor releasing them now other teams can swoop up and take them
 
gafftop said:
Heard theory on radio yesterday that they cut Montgomery at same time so they could cover up that they blew the pick. After the above info this sounds more plausible. I still think they are scrambling to save their job. Many of these actions probably should have been done earlier in season or during preseason. We all know this regime is very SLOW and slow to act. Joe still here. Kubiak still here. etc....
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Agreed, it's possible that this was the most convenient way to cut him. I had initially been excited about the Montgomery pick, then I saw how slow off the LOS he was in college and preseason. I might be something that couldn't be corrected.
 
THis has been covered already, but Sam wasn't slow off the snap in college but asked to key off of the tackle he lined up against; look at his sacks against Clemson and you'll see what he does when allowed to key off the snap.
 
Rey said:
If that's accurate, good for Sam.
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drugresults2.jpg



I am very familiar with E-screen testing. It’s uniqueness is that it is a closed system which once the specimen is in the specialized cup, it is thoroughly tested within the cup without this specialized cup requiring to be opened and handled by multiple personnel in the testing process. This minimizes lab error. However, in its many options, it does not assure that the specimen submitted was from that individual. None of collection centers require that a donor strips prior to the donation, which is done in a private room without observation. In other words, there is no guarantee by the company that the specimen was not substituted for someone else’s.

[FYI, E-screen does not test for any PEDs besides amphetamines}
 
gafftop said:
Heard theory on radio yesterday that they cut Montgomery at same time so they could cover up that they blew the pick. After the above info this sounds more plausible. I still think they are scrambling to save their job. Many of these actions probably should have been done earlier in season or during preseason. We all know this regime is very SLOW and slow to act. Joe still here. Kubiak still here. etc....
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I'm confused. Why would they cut someone just to "cover up" that they blew a pick? They've had many bad draft picks over the years.

If anything, these cuts were made to open up roster spots so they could bring in more people. This team is in full panic mode, and are desperately trying to salvage this year.
 
houstonspartan said:
I'm confused. Why would they cut someone just to "cover up" that they blew a pick? They've had many bad draft picks over the years.

If anything, these cuts were made to open up roster spots so they could bring in more people. This team is in full panic mode, and are desperately trying to salvage this year.
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Any players they pick up will be special teamers and spot relief at best, so I am hoping they raid a bunch of practice squads with the sole intention of adding speed to the team.
 
michaelm said:
Any players they pick up will be special teamers and spot relief at best, so I am hoping they raid a bunch of practice squads with the sole intention of adding speed to the team.
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We can only hope, but why do I get the feeling that you could give coach Joe 11 pro bowlers and the ST's would still stink.

Do these guys hurt the Texans chances of winning? If yes they shouldn't have been cut. But at 2-5 I believe we know the answer is no, so cutting dead weight is how I look at this situation.

If this were Foster or Watt do you think they would've been cut? If you're a fringe player you have to toe the line. If you dont, you get cut.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
drugresults2.jpg



I am very familiar with E-screen testing. It’s uniqueness is that it is a closed system which once the specimen is in the specialized cup, it is thoroughly tested within the cup without this specialized cup requiring to be opened and handled by multiple personnel in the testing process. This minimizes lab error. However, in its many options, it does not assure that the specimen submitted was from that individual. None of collection centers require that a donor strips prior to the donation, which is done in a private room without observation. In other words, there is no guarantee by the company that the specimen was not substituted for someone else’s.

[FYI, E-screen does not test for any PEDs besides amphetamines}
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Yep....that's why I threw that "if" in there. Lots of ways to beat these drug tests....
 
silvrhand said:
Did the team officially release a statement that they were released for drug reasons? Or is it still all twitter based backroom sources?
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I read an article the other day (ESPN I think) that said, per the new CBA, a team could not release a player for drug related offenses such as failing a drug test. Not sure what they were doing though so not sure what the policy is for whatever it is they are accused of doing.

Gotta love those team rules man.
 
steelbtexan said:
We can only hope, but why do I get the feeling that you could give coach Joe 11 pro bowlers and the ST's would still stink.

Do these guys hurt the Texans chances of winning? If yes they shouldn't have been cut. But at 2-5 I believe we know the answer is no, so cutting dead weight is how I look at this situation.

If this were Foster or Watt do you think they would've been cut? If you're a fringe player you have to toe the line. If you dont, you get cut.
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You should always remember there is not such thing as average with baggage. You remember Ocho Cinco's antics with the Bengals he was a very productive player then you remember he got cut in Miami after the episode with his wife. He wasn't the same player so you don't put up with him breaking the law then.
 
Pretty obvious, we're not going to be signing any elite players. But if we don't sign some players soon, they will be learning the playbook at the same time that they are already supposed to know it.............while on the practice field for the first time. Even if they were on the team preseason, the playbook will have changed and/or expanded significantly since then. Tick, tock, tick tock, tick, tock.......
 
Sad state of affairs re. our 2013 draft class.

And it's way too early to determine how they did in the 2013 draft. But aside from a few guys, this year's draft class isn't off to a good start.

Only three of the nine picks are on the 53-man roster. Four of the players are on Injured Reserve. And two are off the team entirely.

Here's a look at each player:

1 (27): WR DeAndre Hopkins
Hopkins has been the best draft pick receiver through seven games. He has the second-most catches of rookie receivers and the most reception yards. The young 21-year-old might be tough on himself, but appears to have a very bright future in the NFL.

2 (57): SS D.J. Swearinger
Swearinger made his first start against the Chiefs in place of the injured Danieal Manning and played very well. Swearinger will continue to start for the rest of the season and has a chance to have some real growth. Playing primarily in the dime package for the first six weeks, the safety made some rookie mistakes but made some plays too.

3 (89): OT Brennan Williams
The tackle from North Carolina has been injured for almost his entire time with the Texans. Before the season, he was placed on Injured Reserve and needed microfracture surgery, which is a major operation and requires a lengthy recovery process. Earlier this week, Williams tweeted that he is finally out of his leg brace but he still has a long way to go.

3 (95): OLB/DE Sam Montgomery
Montgomery showed up and hurt his back at rookie minicamp and his conditioning came into question further when he showed up to training camp out of shape. He never fit as an outside linebacker so the Texans moved him to defensive end. But after being inactive for seven games, the Texans cut him the day after the Chiefs game for breaking team rules.

4 (124): OLB Trevardo Williams
Williams stared to show a glimmer of hope after an awful training camp but then got injured and was placed on IR before the season. We haven’t really seen enough to know that Williams won’t ever be an NFL linebacker. But we haven’t see enough to say he will be either.

6 (176): OT David Quessenberry
The sixth-rounder from San Jose State looked like he might have been a steal but broke his foot the week leading into the season opener. He was placed on the IR and his season was over. The Texans could have used him this year, with Duane Brown’s getting injured and Derek Newton’s struggling. Quessenberry is out of the boot on his foot but still has a while to go.

6 (195): WR Alan Bonner
Bonner’s injury was the least serious of the draft picks to hit the Injured Reserve. He had a nagging hamstring injury that eventually sent him to the IR at final cuts. He’ll be completely healed for next season and they’ll try it again. He’ll be like a redshirt player, with a year of the playbook under his belt.

6 (198): DL Chris Jones
Jones was cut when the team got the roster down to 53. Instead of Jones, they kept Terrell McClain and the oft-inactive Tim Jamison. Jones was picked up by the Buccaneers on waivers. When the Bucs waived him, the Patriots swooped in and gave him a home. Jones did have an unfortunate special teams penalty recently but has 3.5 sacks in the last three weeks. That's more than all but two Texans (J.J. Watt and Whitney Mercilus) have all season.

6 (201): TE Ryan Griffin
Griffin is the third member of the draft class to remain on the 53-man roster. He played sparingly on offense through the first five games of the season (no more than four snaps in any game). But since Owen Daniels fractured his fibula, Griffin has moved up to be the second tight end and has played 33 and 17 snaps in the past two weeks. He has two catches on eight targets this season.
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link
 
TheIronDuke said:
I made the point that this team blows second round picks almost every time in our history but Carr Bombed completely disagreed and said it's one of our most successful rounds we draft in, lol.
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2006 - DeMeco - home run.
2007 - none.
2008 - none.
2009 - Barwin - a guy who goes to a 6 year $36 mil 2nd contract is not a bust - just not a home run.
2010 - Tate - good RB who will get a good 2nd contract - not a bust.
2011 - Reed - solid player, not a bust. Harris - bust.
2012 - None.
2013 - Swearinger - too soon but certainly not a bust yet.

Where is this "almost every time" you are laughing at people about?
 
infantrycak said:
2006 - DeMeco - home run.
2007 - none.
2008 - none.
2009 - Barwin - a guy who goes to a 6 year $36 mil 2nd contract is not a bust - just not a home run.
2010 - Tate - good RB who will get a good 2nd contract - not a bust.
2011 - Reed - solid player, not a bust. Harris - bust.
2012 - None.
2013 - Swearinger - too soon but certainly not a bust yet.

Where is this "almost every time" you are laughing at people about?
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First I said in our entire history, and you conveniently left off a few picks there.

Second, if you think picking up one good player in 7 years at a draft spot "good" then that's your problem. You're not supposed to get ho hum, not busts in the second round, you're supposed to get contributors and play-makers.

Now act like you don't get all high and mighty all the time and call me out for laughing "at" someone, I was laughing at the IDEA of saying we draft well in the second round. If your idea of good 2nd rounders is "not bust" then you're following the perfect team for you. I guess I think we could be doing better, like maybe getting more than ONE guy we offer a contract extension to to keep him here. Oh, and dude, Reed is a huge bust give me a break.
 
TheIronDuke said:
First I said in our entire history, and you conveniently left off a few picks there.
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I ignored the silliness of trying to act like a 2nd round pattern exists over two entirely different regimes. But the prior regime had two positive picks and one negative (due to injury).

Second, if you think picking up one good player in 7 years at a draft spot "good" then that's your problem. You're not supposed to get ho hum, not busts in the second round, you're supposed to get contributors and play-makers.
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So now you want to play a semantic game of retreat? You said blown picks. Getting good solid players is not blowing picks.

You exaggerated plain and simple.

I guess I think we could be doing better, like maybe getting more than ONE guy we offer a contract extension to to keep him here.
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You can ONE for emphasis all you want and just make it worse. Only TWO have come up for contract extensions. One got one and the other got a bigger payday on the open market (and we don't know the Texans didn't make him an offer). You'd be bitching up a storm if the Texans had paid Barwin like the Eagles.
 
TheIronDuke said:
I made the point that this team blows second round picks almost every time in our history but Carr Bombed completely disagreed and said it's one of our most successful rounds we draft in, lol.
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Don't leave out the 3rd round, there's plenty to complain about. Pick history

Brennan Williams, OT from UNC. The injured OT fell in the draft due to injury, and then gets injured in the first two weeks of rookie camp. Nobody could have seen that coming.

Sam Montgomery, DE from LSU. Said to have a lazy attitude and bad work ethic at LSU. He gets booted from the team for toking up the night before a game, cause getting high is more important that making millions in the NFL. Nobody could have seen that coming.

DeVier Posey, WR from tOSU. Dude missed most of the season for NCAA violations. Nobody saw this pick coming and most draft sites had him rated as a 5-6th rounder. Kubiak pulled a Kubiak and outsmarted everyone with this clearly awesome pick.

Brandon Brooks, OG from Miami. He came into camp overweight and kind of out of shape, but he has worked hard and looks like a potential starter at guard! Wooooohooooooo!

Earl Mitchell, DT from Arizona. Didn't do much the first year or two, but now he's our starter in the middle of the D. Rarely ever gets double-teamed, and doesn't do much to collapse the pocket. Probably should have been drafted in the 5th, but whatever. He's a starter, so that's good right?

Antoine Caldwell, OG Bama. Is this guy even in the league anymore?

Antwaun Molden, CB from St Luke's. Poor guy just riddled with injuries. Sucks, but he's a bust.

Steve Slaton, RB from Hillbillyland. If this guy isn't the posterboy for the plug-and-play-RB-in-a-ZBS argument, I don't know who is.

Jacoby Jones, WR from Lane. Probowl returner and nearly the Super Bowl MVP once he left this team. Makes you wonder if all these lackluster picks are a product of their lack of talent, or lack of coaching. Probably both.

Charles Spencer, OT from Pitt. Could have been good, but injury derailed his career. Too bad :(

Eric Winston, Caveman from Miami. Never missed a game for us, played pretty well overall at OT. Solid pick for sure, but we cut him because our GM didn't want to offend him by discussing a paycut or restructure. Congrats Rick, you are a gentleman and a scholar, cavemen for generations will tell tales of your nobility.

Vernand Morency - I don't even know who this is, so I'm gonna stop here.

infantrycak said:
You can ONE for emphasis all you want and just make it worse. Only TWO have come up for contract extensions. One got one and the other got a bigger payday on the open market (and we don't know the Texans didn't make him an offer). You'd be bitching up a storm if the Texans had paid Barwin like the Eagles.
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I would have been happy to keep Barwin for the salary structure he got from the Eagles. The dude makes like 6m over the first 2 years, and will be cut year 3 for sure. The 6 years 36m number is specious at best, he would need to become Demarcus Ware to earn that cash.
 
Here are the Patriots for comparison on 2nd round picks:

2012 - Tavon Austin - spot player, still early.
2011 - Ras Dowling - bust. Shane Vareen - spot relief.
2010 - Gronk - great player with injury problems. Jermaine Cunningham - bust.
2009 - Ron Brace - barely on the team. Darius Butler - bust. Vollmer - looked great but now injury plagued.
2008 - Terrance Wheatley - bust.
2007 - none.
2006 - Chad Jackson - bust.
 
infantrycak said:
Here are the Patriots for comparison on 2nd round picks:

2012 - Tavon Austin - spot player, still early.
2011 - Ras Dowling - bust. Shane Vareen - spot relief.
2010 - Gronk - great player with injury problems. Jermaine Cunningham - bust.
2009 - Ron Brace - barely on the team. Darius Butler - bust. Vollmer - looked great but now injury plagued.
2008 - Terrance Wheatley - bust.
2007 - none.
2006 - Chad Jackson - bust.
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Nice job leaving off guys like Patrick Chung, Brandon Spikes, and recent additions Jamie Collins and Aaron Dobson. Chung got 3m a year from the Eagles and plays about 50% of defensive plays for them. Spikes plays about 50% of D plays for NE, Dobson plays about 50% of O plays for NE and he's a rookie. Not exactly worthless or groundbreaking, but depth is nice to have when guys like Amendola go down.

Sebastian Vollmer is starting for them this season and has played nearly every snap on O.

Gronk got them to a Super Bowl. Injuries or not, he's worth a 1st round pick right now. Dude is a beast and well worth the selection.
 
infantrycak said:
Here are the Patriots for comparison on 2nd round picks:

2012 - Tavon Austin - spot player, still early.
2011 - Ras Dowling - bust. Shane Vareen - spot relief.
2010 - Gronk - great player with injury problems. Jermaine Cunningham - bust.
2009 - Ron Brace - barely on the team. Darius Butler - bust. Vollmer - looked great but now injury plagued.
2008 - Terrance Wheatley - bust.
2007 - none.
2006 - Chad Jackson - bust.
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I didn't know that the Pats got Tavon Austin, could've sworn he was playing for the Rams against us.
 
OMG, I can't believe that I heard Gronk is great with injury problems but Ben Tate is "good" with no mention of his incredible injury problems. Yeah, you're a lawyer for sure. Oh, and ask our defense how good Vereen is, he beat us like a drum in the playoffs.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Nice job leaving off guys like Patrick Chung, Brandon Spikes, and recent additions Jamie Collins and Aaron Dobson. Chung got 3m a year from the Eagles and plays about 50% of defensive plays for them. Spikes plays about 50% of D plays for NE, Dobson plays about 50% of O plays for NE and he's a rookie. Not exactly worthless or groundbreaking, but depth is nice to have when guys like Amendola go down.

Sebastian Vollmer is starting for them this season and has played nearly every snap on O.

Gronk got them to a Super Bowl. Injuries or not, he's worth a 1st round pick right now. Dude is a beast and well worth the selection.
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Patrick Chung and Brandon Spikes were an oversight - lots of 2nd rounders. Add both in as solid.

I left off this year because just like Swearinger the comment would be too soon to know.

Gronk and Vollmer I gave greats - what more do you want? But since you tangent on Gronk, I think a team would be insane to give a 1st for Gronk. CnD is very concerned his four time operated arm is going to be career threatening. Doesn't affect the grade for the draft on either though.

TheIronDuke said:
I didn't know that the Pats got Tavon Austin, could've sworn he was playing for the Rams against us.
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Tavon Wilson - oops.
 
PapaL said:
So are you guys arguing that the draft is a crap shoot?
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For Rick it is.

And he craps out more often than not.


Bottom line is after the 2010 debacle Rick/Gary spent big $$$$ to sign Manning/JoJo in FA to save their jobs. This eliminated their margin for error when it camt to extending players. (Schaub/Lesser extent Cusshing)

When your hands are tied by the cap and the Texans are. You have to be able to hit on atleast 3-4 of your draft picks, including 1 star level pick and 2-3 player that can come in and contribute immediately. That's if they are going to compete on the level of the Pats/Broncos/Cokts etc....

This is where Rick/Gary have failed as leaders of the Texans orgs on field product and a large reason the Texans stand where they are today.
 
steelbtexan said:
When your hands are tied by the cap and the Texans are. You have to be able to hit on atleast 3-4 of your draft picks, including 1 star level pick and 2-3 player that can come in and contribute immediately. That's if they are going to compete on the level of the Pats/Broncos/Cokts etc....

.
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I was with you until you said Patriots.
 
Would love to see the Texans sign Patrick Edwards.

The dude was magic with Keenum, he could be had cheaply,
he has much better hands than Keyshawn, and is just as solid
of a returner as well..

TJ
 
Just curious, if Texans did not keep the "cigar" as evidence or do immediate drug test, what recourse do players have?
 
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