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Texans vs the rest of the NFL since 2002

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
So, in the other thread about Watson the conversation about wasting players careers got me to thinking about how the Texans stacked up vs the rest of the NFL since they've been around. I just wanted to see it kind of laid out which franchises are really "known for wasting careers". Based on the stats I chose to use there are maybe 3 or 4 teams that I wouldn't trade places with and one of those teams has at least been to a conference finals (Jags). They are also in a pretty good position right now moving forward so we'll see how it goes from here. AFCS highlighted in Purple.

There are some teams that have more Dreadful seasons (5 or fewer wins; some winless and 1 win teams)....But they have a superbowl or an appearance mixed in...Personally an appearance or win is the Trump card for me.


Chart also just shows how good the Pats have been. Their first SB didn't even make the cut and they are still clearly waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than everyone else.

Some of my data may be slightly off, but for the most part I feel this is pretty accurate. Just one many looking at some data while I'm working, so if you find something off I'll correct it.

I chose these categories because I felt they best illustrated teams' success over a time period. Anyways, take it for what you will.

TEAM
Seasons w/ 5 or fewer Wins
Double Digit Win Seasons
Playoff Appearances
Conference Championship Appearances
Super Bowl Appearances​
Super Bowl Wins​
1. Arizona Cardinals​
8​
4​
4​
2​

1​
0​
2. Atlanta Falcons​
4​
7​
8​
3​
1​
0​
3. Baltimore Ravens​
2​
11​
11​
3​
1​
1​
4. Buffalo Bills​
2​
2​
3​
1​
0​
0​
5. Carolina Panthers​
3​
6​
7​
3​
2​
0​
TEAM
Seasons w/ 5 or fewer Wins
Double Digit Win Seasons
Playoff Appearances
Conference Championship Appearances
Super Bowl Appearances​
Super Bowl Wins​
6. Chicago Bears​
5​
5​
5​
2​
1​
0​
7. Cincinnati Bengals​
5​
6​
7​
0​
0​
0​
8. Cleveland Browns
12​
*1 winless
*1 season with 1 win
2​

2​
0​
0​
0​
9. Dallass Cowboys
2
6
7
0
0
0
10. Denver Broncos​
3​
7​
8​
3​
2​
1​
11. Detroit Lions
9​
*1 winless season
2​
3​
0​
0​
0​
12. Green Bay Packers​
1​
13​
14​
5​
1​
1​
13. Houston Texans
6
4
6
0
0
0
14. Indianapolis Colts
2​
14​
14​
4​
2​
1​
15. Jacksonville Jaguars
10​
*1 season with 1 win
3​
3​
1​
0​
0​
TEAM
Seasons w/ 5 or fewer Wins
Double Digit Win Seasons
Playoff Appearances
Conference Championship Appearances
Super Bowl Appearances​
Super Bowl Wins​
16. Kansas City Chiefs​
4​
10​
10​
2​
1​
1​
17. Las Vegas Raiders​
11​
2​
2​
1​
1​
0​
18. Los Angeles Chargers​
4​
5​
7​
1​
0​
0​
19. Los Angeles Rams​
4​
*1 season with 1 win
4​
5​
1​
1​
0​
20. Miami Dolphins​
3​
*1 season with 1 win
4​
2​
0​
0​
0​
21. Minnesota Vikings​
2​
6​
7​
2​
0​
0​
22. New England Patriots​
0​
*1 Season with 16 wins
17​
16​
12​
8​
5​
23. New Orleans Saints​
1​
9​
9​
3​
1​
1​
24. New York Giants​
4​
6​
7​
2​
2​
2​
25. New York Jets​
7​
4​
5​
2​
0​
0​
26. Philadelphia Eagles​
2​
9​
11​
5​
2​
1​
TEAM
Seasons w/ 5 or fewer Wins
Double Digit Win Seasons
Playoff Appearances
Conference Championship Appearances
Super Bowl Appearances​
Super Bowl Wins​
27. Pittsburgh Steelers​
0​
12​
*one season winning 15 games
12​
5​
3​
2​
28. San Francisco 49ers​
6​
5​
5​
4​
2​
0​
29. Seattle Seahawks​
2​
11​
14​
3​
3​
1​
30. Tampa Bay Buccaneers​
8​
4​
4​
1​
1​
1​
31. Tennessee Titans
4​
5​
7​
2​
0​
0​
32. Washington Redskins​
7​
2​
5​
0​
0​
0​
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
So that breaks down to;
# of teams with more seasons of 5 wins or less - 8 (Cle, Det, Jac, Was, Raiders, Ari, TB, Jets)

# of teams with fewer double digit win seasons - 6 (Cle, Det, Jac, Was, Raiders, Buf)

# of teams with fewer playoff appearances - 13 (Cle, Det, Jac, Was, Raiders, Ari, Buf, Chi, Rams, Mia, Jets, SF, TB)

1 of 7 teams with 0 conference title game appearances (Cle, Det, Was, Cin, Dal, Mia) *-The Raiders appearance was 2002.

1 of 13 teams with 0 SB appearnaces

1 of 20 teams with 0 SB wins

So we're a better franchise the last 19 years than the Browns, Lions, Washington, Jags and Raiders? Yippee Ki Yay!!!
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
I chose these categories because I felt they best illustrated teams' success over a time period. Anyways, take it for what you will.
One of my takeaways from your laborious effort (thanks, again): Tanking doesn't work in the NFL.

None of the Super Bowl championships came as a result of dumping all of their good players for draft picks, and being crappy for 2-3 years. Yet, that's what several members of this forum are advocating. A failed methodology for becoming a championship team.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
What other players can you say have truly had their careers wasted by their franchise in that time span that are on some kind of par with Dre and JJ?

Calvin Johnson
Matt Stafford
Jason Witten
Zack Martin
Joe Thomas
Chad Johnson
Geno Atkins

There are some that got out before it was too late like Ndamukong Suh, Andrew Whitworth, and Justin Smith.

But we've had a couple fortunate escapees as well in Duane Brown and DHop.

That appears to put us most similarly in a boat with Detroit and Cincinnati..

yay.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
What other players can you say have truly had their careers wasted by their franchise in that time span that are on some kind of par with Dre and JJ?

Calvin Johnson
Matt Stafford
Jason Witten
Zack Martin
Joe Thomas
Chad Johnson
Geno Atkins

There are some that got out before it was too late like Ndamukong Suh, Andrew Whitworth, and Justin Smith.

But we've had a couple fortunate escapees as well in Duane Brown and DHop.

That appears to put us most similarly in a boat with Detroit and Cincinnati..

yay.
Speaking of Jason Witten....I forgot to mention that I also highlighted the Cowboys because of how much hype they seemingly get every year and really they've been just a bit better than us since we've been around. Just based on perception I would have never thought to include Witten in there as having a wasted career....but yeah....I guess he actually would qualify....
 
Notice how those teams always draft high and have a handful of years of "success" which i think most define as making the playoffs. Its why I'm not all in on getting draft picks because the same teams been sorry for nearly 2 decades
 
So that breaks down to;
# of teams with more seasons of 5 wins or less - 8 (Cle, Det, Jac, Was, Raiders, Ari, TB, Jets)

# of teams with fewer double digit win seasons - 6 (Cle, Det, Jac, Was, Raiders, Buf)

# of teams with fewer playoff appearances - 13 (Cle, Det, Jac, Was, Raiders, Ari, Buf, Chi, Rams, Mia, Jets, SF, TB)

1 of 7 teams with 0 conference title game appearances (Cle, Det, Was, Cin, Dal, Mia) *-The Raiders appearance was 2002.

1 of 13 teams with 0 SB appearnaces

1 of 20 teams with 0 SB wins

So we're a better franchise the last 19 years than the Browns, Lions, Washington, Jags and Raiders? Yippee Ki Yay!!!
Notice how those teams always draft high and have a handful of years of "success" which i think most define as making the playoffs at minimum. Its why I'm not all in on getting draft picks because the same teams been sorry for nearly 2 decades
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Just following up a bit and Joe Thomas has to take the all time wasted career cake..

While he personally accounted for 10 Pro Bowls, 6 1st-team, and 2 2nd-team All-Pro teams the Browns were..

48-128 overall with not one single playoff game while going through 18 starting QBs, 7 GMs, and 6 HCs.

He experienced 1 non-losing season (10-6) during his rookie year.

Just, wow.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
How many of these teams had QB's taking up most of the cap?

Or QB's that flat out sucked?

This has to do with losing more than the draft.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Just following up a bit and Joe Thomas has to take the all time wasted career cake..

While he personally accounted for 10 Pro Bowls, 6 1st-team, and 2 2nd-team All-Pro teams the Browns were..

48-128 overall with not one single playoff game while going through 18 starting QBs, 7 GMs, and 6 HCs.

He experienced 1 non-losing season (10-6) during his rookie year.

Just, wow.
Says a lot about how the salary cap works.

Better to have a lot of good players than a few great players. And more manageable also.

Better to draft well in the mid to lower end of the draft as the players are less high profile. Allows an easier development path and they are cheaper to resign at the end of their rookie contract.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Says a lot about how the salary cap works.

Better to have a lot of good players than a few great players. And more manageable also.

Better to draft well in the mid to lower end of the draft as the players are less high profile. Allows an easier development path and they are cheaper to resign at the end of their rookie contract.
I don't think the Browns ever had salary cap struggles. They just couldn't discern talent to save their lives.

And the Browns of Joe Thomas' era couldn't tell a quarterback from a hacky sack..
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
One of my takeaways from your laborious effort (thanks, again): Tanking doesn't work in the NFL.

None of the Super Bowl championships came as a result of dumping all of their good players for draft picks, and being crappy for 2-3 years. Yet, that's what several members of this forum are advocating. A failed methodology for becoming a championship team.
If you were referring to me , your statement is off the mark.

This team is in a unique situation having "gone all in" on the last two years rosters and falling miserably short. (The Tunsil trade was most definitely an all in move).
As a result they had a short draft last season and a shorter draft this year to go along with no working cap space.

My concern is about the cap , not draft assets , this aint the NBA where a lottery pick changes the fortune of a franchise for a decade.

Bottom line , we have a bunch of players underperforming mid tier contracts / players that don't move the proverbial needle. You can't win in this league doing that.
The previous regime is responsible for these issues but they aren't going away if you don't make them go away.

They are ~$22m over the cap and Watson only accounts for about $15m in total salary & bonus money , his extension doesn't kick in until next season.

I'm NOT trading Watson. Period. (Well , maybe if Jax gave me 1-1 and a bucketful of other picks but that aint happening).

What I would do is take this coming season to purge the roster of any and all of these unproductive / overpaid players and their cap hits - that means significant dead money on this years cap & likely a poor W/L record leading to an early pick as well as having usable cap space going into 2022 (and beyond).

You build thru the draft but you have to be able to supplement that thru FA and that requires cap space.

The alternative to that short term misery is long term misery .... 3 years of Mercilus , McKinney , Martin and the rest of those underperforming their cost.

Do you take your lumps in one season or drag this crap out ?
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
If you were referring to me , your statement is off the mark.

This team is in a unique situation having "gone all in" on the last two years rosters and falling miserably short. (The Tunsil trade was most definitely an all in move).
As a result they had a short draft last season and a shorter draft this year to go along with no working cap space.

My concern is about the cap , not draft assets , this aint the NBA where a lottery pick changes the fortune of a franchise for a decade.

Bottom line , we have a bunch of players underperforming mid tier contracts / players that don't move the proverbial needle. You can't win in this league doing that.
The previous regime is responsible for these issues but they aren't going away if you don't make them go away.

They are ~$22m over the cap and Watson only accounts for about $15m in total salary & bonus money , his extension doesn't kick in until next season.

I'm NOT trading Watson. Period. (Well , maybe if Jax gave me 1-1 and a bucketful of other picks but that aint happening).

What I would do is take this coming season to purge the roster of any and all of these unproductive / overpaid players and their cap hits - that means significant dead money on this years cap & likely a poor W/L record leading to an early pick as well as having usable cap space going into 2022 (and beyond).

You build thru the draft but you have to be able to supplement that thru FA and that requires cap space.

The alternative to that short term misery is long term misery .... 3 years of Mercilus , McKinney , Martin and the rest of those underperforming their cost.

Do you take your lumps in one season or drag this crap out ?
:clap::clap::clap:
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don't think the Browns ever had salary cap struggles. They just couldn't discern talent to save their lives.

And the Browns of Joe Thomas' era couldn't tell a quarterback from a hacky sack..
Until Dorsey entered the building.

Why? Starting with Dorsey hiring McCloughan to find Dorsey a QB.

This really isn't hard, hire proven competent people and let them do their jobs.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Almost looked like they still couldn't, someone must have had one hell of a come to Jesus meeting with Mayfield.
They hired a HC that was qualified and he worked wonders with Mayfield. Speaking of this I expect that the Texans and their Cuck owner letting DW4 hire their HC will turnout much like it did with the Browns when Haslam let Baker pick Kitchens to be his HC.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
They hired a HC that was qualified and he worked wonders with Mayfield. Speaking of this I expect that the Texans and their Cuck owner letting DW4 hire their HC will turnout much like it did with the Browns when Haslam let Baker pick Kitchens to be his HC.
So you don’t believe Bieniemy is in the least bit qualified.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Depends on who you think put together the Chiefs offense and calls the plays.

I think Reid handles this. Example: Do you think Bienemy called that 4th and 1 play against the Browns on Sunday? Daboll calls all of the plays for the Bills.
So for you calling plays is high on your list of qualifications?

In your opinion what does the OC do during the week?

What do you think a HC, with personnel responsiblilty do during the week?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Bienemy has failed close to a dozen interviews. May be close to a record. My initial thoughts is could all those teams who interviewed Eric be wrong?
I’m asking because I don’t know. Over the last two years have any HCs been hired from Super Bowl teams?
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I’m asking because I don’t know. Over the last two years have any HCs been hired from Super Bowl teams?
I'm sure there has, the NFL is a copycat league. While Bienemy is the OC, Reid also has a separate running game coordinator and a passing game coordinator. Bienemy is surrounded by a large amount of talent that make KC go.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I’m just saying I understand if coaches want to have their HC in place 4 weeks before the scouting combine
 

wildroot

Waterboy
If you look at it from the average NFL player's career span, which I think is about 4 years, then look and see how many consecutive years that each team has been (at the best) from not very good to one and done in the playoffs you'll see that probably 85% of the players had wasted careers.
If you raise the bar and say a player's career is wasted if they never won a SB, bump that number up to 95% or so.
So wasting players careers is not something the Texans have a monopoly on.

Disclaimer: I never took pencil to paper and cypher'd any of these numbers, it just felt like the %'s sounded about right.
 
Last edited:

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
If you look at it from the average NFL player's career span, which I think is about 4 years, then look and see how many consecutive years that each team has been (at the best) from not very good to one and done in the playoffs for 4 consecutive years, you'll see that probably 85% of the players had wasted careers. So it's not something the Texans have a monopoly on!
Nobody cares about 85% of players in the league.

People only refer to wasted careers when talking about elite level players..

Andre Johnson
JJ Watt
Deshaun Watson

It's wasted because you feel like you should have a shot with them. Nobody feels like acquiring Kevin Walter or Petey Faggins is their chance to take a shot.

And in the past 20 years the Texans haven't had a monopoly either, as the thread suggests. They just happen to fall right in line with the Detroit Lions and Cincinnati Bengals of the league. So, great.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I think Reid handles this. Example: Do you think Bienemy called that 4th and 1 play against the Browns on Sunday?
That was a play they picked for Henne earlier in the week because it was his favorite in that situation. It was Reid, Bienemy, Kafka, the Ol coach all making the call together. There is no vacuum
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Depends on who you think put together the Chiefs offense and calls the plays.

I think Reid handles this. Example: Do you think Bienemy called that 4th and 1 play against the Browns on Sunday? Daboll calls all of the plays for the Bills.
I think saying you don't want EB as HC is fine, but saying he's not qualified is simply false. He's been a coach in the NFL for 14 years now? He's been the OC for a super bowl winning team, and OC for arguably the best offense the past three seasons. If that doesn't qualify you for an HC position in this league, I don't know what will.

Not to mention, EVERY team that had an HC opening requested to interview EB.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That was a play they picked for Henne earlier in the week because it was his favorite in that situation. It was Reid, Bienemy, Kafka, the Ol coach all making the call together. There is no vacuum
Who made the final call?

Who's favorite play was it?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think saying you don't want EB as HC is fine, but saying he's not qualified is simply false. He's been a coach in the NFL for 14 years now? He's been the OC for a super bowl winning team, and OC for arguably the best offense the past three seasons. If that doesn't qualify you for an HC position in this league, I don't know what will.

Not to mention, EVERY team that had an HC opening requested to interview EB.
He's had 10 interviews on the last 2 HC cycles and nobody has hired him.

That should make all Texans fans wonder if he's the best man for the job. But it won't.

In a way I hope they hire EB because when they inevitably crash and burn for the reasons I've stated many times that will make this MB even more entertaining. Isn't that what this is supposed to be all about? Entertainment?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So for you calling plays is high on your list of qualifications?

In your opinion what does the OC do during the week?

What do you think a HC, with personnel responsiblilty do during the week?
The OC puts in the game plan, also the QB coach usually has input. The HC looks over the game plan and says ok or we need to add this play. Or let's not run this play

Then in Reid's case he calls the plays. Always has.
 
I think saying you don't want EB as HC is fine, but saying he's not qualified is simply false. He's been a coach in the NFL for 14 years now? He's been the OC for a super bowl winning team, and OC for arguably the best offense the past three seasons. If that doesn't qualify you for an HC position in this league, I don't know what will.

Not to mention, EVERY team that had an HC opening requested to interview EB.
On paper I completely agree with you EB is very qualified, however, on paper OB was very qualified as well and in fact their resumes are pretty similar. Both OC for a HoF coach, both with a generational talent QB and with both there is the question of how much of the offense is them and how much is that HoF HC and generational QB. People forget OB was considered the hot hire back in 14 and many thought he was a can't miss HC. Not saying EB will be the same but it does give me pause. Like you said every team has requested to interview him but lots of teams have requested to interview him in the past and none hired him. Could be for a many reasons and some might not be his fault but it still makes you wonder.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
On paper I completely agree with you EB is very qualified, however, on paper OB was very qualified as well and in fact their resumes are pretty similar.
Similar? OB was in the NFL 5 years before taking the HC gig here. Just 1 as OC. Bieniemy has been in the league 13 years, with 3 years as OC. Nothing similar at all, on paper or otherwise.

That said, what worries me about Bieniemy is that he's been around awhile and doesn't seem to move up the chain very fast. 10 years in the league before he even gets moved up to OC. And even then, Reid is likely the real OC there. And how many interviews for HC has he had the last 2-3 years with not one hire? That has me very skeptical that this guy has what it takes to take on the whole operation associated with being a HC.

OB and EB are the same age (51). OB got his shot with just 5 years of NFL experience at age 45. EB is 51 with 13 years experience and is still looking for that shot. Is his off-field issues that happened a long time ago really what's holding him back, or is something else going on here? Gives me a bad feeling things are about to get even worse than they already are. He could turn out to be a great HC, but the red flags are there.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
On paper I completely agree with you EB is very qualified, however, on paper OB was very qualified as well and in fact their resumes are pretty similar. Both OC for a HoF coach, both with a generational talent QB and with both there is the question of how much of the offense is them and how much is that HoF HC and generational QB. People forget OB was considered the hot hire back in 14 and many thought he was a can't miss HC. Not saying EB will be the same but it does give me pause. Like you said every team has requested to interview him but lots of teams have requested to interview him in the past and none hired him. Could be for a many reasons and some might not be his fault but it still makes you wonder.
Those are valid concerns, but doesn't change the fact that he's a qualified HC candidate. I agree BOB was a qualified candidate as well.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
He's had 10 interviews on the last 2 HC cycles and nobody has hired him.

That should make all Texans fans wonder if he's the best man for the job. But it won't.

In a way I hope they hire EB because when they inevitably crash and burn for the reasons I've stated many times that will make this MB even more entertaining. Isn't that what this is supposed to be all about? Entertainment?
So you want the Texans to fail for your own personal entertainment?
 


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