Texan's Training Camp Report - Michael Smith

[The Pencil Neck]

See this will be my first season to be on here so I don't know what was going on in this board, but what was the feeling about Carr after the 7-9 season? That's how I can determine whether people are speaking from their heart or if it's wet wood (no good and useable). That can also speak volumes on when it all went wrong with the team.

This is going to be my first season on this board as well. I just popped in during the draft to see how people closer to the team were feeling about the choices. Especially the Mario pick (that I really, really liked.)

 

[WWX]

I didn't say that it was carr's fault he didnt get fired. Thats Mcnair's.....pure and simple.

Look, my analogy to Carr is simple. Its one of a grocery store.

You go shopping for a can of vegetables. You have 2 cans of vegetables....one is shiny and new, one has obviously been dented up a bit. which one do you want running your dinner? A new, untested, can, or a dented up can? You don't know that either of them can hold up the weight of an entire meal. Granted, they have both shown potential in the amateur del monte league, but really....which one do you choose?

Sorry but your analogy is kinda lame. And I’m being to generous when I say that because I really don’t want to offend you, just stating my opinion. IMO getting rid of a perfectly capable QB, who has just survived a four year trip into oblivion, is something an inadequate coach would do. Yes we know you want V. Young. I like him, you like him, we all like him. He is a good kid and might be a great player in a few years, maybe even sooner. Maybe the best ever, who knows at this point? But we do know Carr is our QB right now and our team looks pretty good shortly after hiring a coach who has three Super Bowl rings.

I trust what Kubiak is doing. And when I read reports about Mario, I don’t miss V. Young anymore, I’m perfectly happy, are you?

But did Vince HAVE to end up in tennessee!!!

 

[swtbound07]

Sorry but your analogy is kinda lame. And I’m being to generous when I say that because I really don’t want to offend you, just stating my opinion. IMO getting rid of a perfectly capable QB, who has just survived a four year trip into oblivion, is something an inadequate coach would do. Yes we know you want V. Young. I like him, you like him, we all like him. He is a good kid and might be a great player in a few years, maybe even sooner. Maybe the best ever, who knows at this point? But we do know Carr is our QB right now and our team looks pretty good shortly after hiring a coach who has three Super Bowl rings.

I trust what Kubiak is doing. And when I read reports about Mario, I don’t miss V. Young anymore, I’m perfectly happy, are you?

But did Vince HAVE to end up in tennessee!!!

Thats the problem. If Carr was perfectly capable then I wouldn't be having these discussions. I let Vince go. I really have...I own the jersey, and will cheer for him, but Im campaigning for Sage now...he's on our roster.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I’m one person who never wanted capers in the first place. Every year I waited to see if he would get fired. FINALLY!!! And this couldn’t have happened at a better time because Kub is a genius IMO.

I was actually excited about getting Capers after how well he'd done with the Panthers. And then of course... The Game. But fairly early on, I started hearing griping about how Capers was treating the players and the play calling didn't look very good to me. So in the back of my mind, I was kinda wondering if he was the right guy. I expected more the third year but I felt we were on the right track. And then... blech... luckily the two guys I talk the most smack to are a Jets fan and a Raiders fan. They weren't really in a position to talk much more than I was.

I'm glad Kubes is here. There is smack to be talked and I want to be the one talking it.

 

[WWX]

Thats the problem. If Carr was perfectly capable then I wouldn't be having these discussions. I let Vince go. I really have...I own the jersey, and will cheer for him, but Im campaigning for Sage now...he's on our roster.

Yes Rosenfels isn't too shabby. But I'll end my part of this discussion by stating Carr is capable, just under coached in the past. You'll see... Just wait.

 

[swtbound07]

Yes Rosenfels isn't too shabby. But I'll end my part of this discussion by stating Carr is capable, just under coached in the past. You'll see... Just wait.

No thanks...i've been playing the waiting game for 4 years...carr isn't capable......you'll see. Just pop in an old texans tape...or you can wait for the season to start.

 

[WWX]

No thanks...i've been playing the waiting game for 4 years...carr isn't capable......you'll see. Just pop in an old texans tape...or you can wait for the season to start.

Ok then don’t wait, just give up on him and watch Tennessee games or cook some canned spinach. But in the meantime I’ll be watching him lead the Texans through their best season yet. And when Carr has a good season, and your ingenious theories are proved wrong, it won’t be because he miraculously learned how to play football in one off-season. It will be because of Kubiak and the entire TEAM.

Anyway I’m gonna go cook some chicken parmesan so my family can feast, but no canned goods though, sorry.

 

[texan279]

Thats the problem. If Carr was perfectly capable then I wouldn't be having these discussions. I let Vince go. I really have...I own the jersey, and will cheer for him, but Im campaigning for Sage now...he's on our roster.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your post but please tell me you are not saying you would rather have Sage starting at QB...

 

[Wolf]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your post but please tell me you are not saying you would rather have Sage starting at QB...

haven't a clue.. swt doesnt' think either one is worth it.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Its funny how some people continue to defend Carr like someone was talking about their mother.

It's funny to me how some people attack Carr like he raped their mothers.

He threw for 3500 yards year before last, had a decent completion percentage and more touches than ints, had been making steady progress, and looked poised to do a lot last year. And didn't. That's all.

But since you obviously know all the plays that were called by the Texan's coaching staff last year, and you know what checkdown options Carr had and didn't make, and you know what his reads were (and if he even had any) that he missed, you are obviously omniscient and we will all bow to your greater knowledge.

And, yes, that dripping noise in the background is sarcasm.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your post but please tell me you are not saying you would rather have Sage starting at QB...

What misunderstanding? He's come right out and said as much in several posts.

 

[thunderkyss]

You can say "you're gonna do" ... but you're not an NFL quarterback, and I suspect you were never even a high school quarterback. It doesn't work that way. Why not David Carr call the defenses too? Make personnel substitutions? Conduct practices? Hell, since Carr has all of this fictional power all of a sudden, why not fire Capers and hire his dad? You can talk all day about systematically changing plays past an occasional audible (which itself must be allowed for by the coaches) but it doesn't happen, period. Not any quarterback for any coach for any team.

Peyton Manning has been given explicit privilege by the coaches to call his own offense at the line. That's very different from Peyton Manning calling his own plays contrary to the coaches' gameplan/orders ... so that's a 100% inapplicable example.

What "you would do" is be benched and unemployed.

far as I know...... there is only one reason to limit a QBs audible choices....... only one.

 

[thunderkyss]

I've posted numerous times (as I've been on the team's sideline for four camp sessions) that Carr is doing well and looks much better this year. See the training camp threads for details. Is that "field doing the talking" enough for you?

So you're saying that Carr as a player, while taking into accounts all that surrounded him last year, didn't play as well as he could have...... since he looks much better....... as opposed to just better.....

'cause that's all I'm saying.... but what do I know having never been a highschool QB like I'm sure you had...

 

[thunderkyss]

All I know is that if my boss tells me to do something and I take it upon myself to do something different because I think it is the right way or better way, I wouldn't have a job too long.

Depends........ do we win or loose??

I'm going to do my job.... if my job accomplishes the goals of the business, then what do I have to fear??

If I am good at my job, I'll get another one... or start my own company... or whatever.....

Carr's too young, and has too much money to be worried about loosing his pension.

 

[thunderkyss]

And if you get a reputation as a guy that's a loose cannon like that, you won't find employment in that line of work for very long, either.

Only if you keep screwing up......

 

[thunderkyss]

Exactly, that's what's weird. 2 years ago, everything was starting to click and then wham, everything falls to pieces.

IIRC, Capers' goal was always to keep the game close and then try to win it at the end. He wanted the D to basically win the game and the O not to lose it. To protect Carr, we went to a max-protect scheme that basically crippled us. At least, that was the way I saw it. I think that Capers & Pendry just didn't trust their own o-line.

The Bears got into the playoffs like that.... The Steelers and the Ravens have won SuperBowls that way..... heck, a lot of teams have won SuperBowls that way.

 

[thunderkyss]

It wasn't on Carr's back to get it done, in terms of playcalling. Capers and Pendry made absolutely sure that the world knew that THEY called the plays and the QB carried them out.

Is that the way it worked when Capers took the Panthers to the NFC Championship game??

Or was that something special he devised for our offense??

 

[thunderkyss]

Well, here's a clip so you can see for yourself:

http://www.khou.com/sharedcontent/Vi...9747&catId=505

I like the second clip where you see Carr stand in the pocket, duck a defender a little bit, always keeping his eyes open and not on assuming the fetal position, and then delivering a strike to the receiver.

Granted, it's not a real team of defenders out there...but he's looking better.

So you're saying he didn't look good...... or half way decent for a 4 year starter before??

 

[thunderkyss]

So maybe it is just a we hate Carr type crusade going on, still hating him after a 3500 yard season and promising future? Maybe I need to go back to the inagural season to see how some felt then? All I know is that I may not be a big Carr enthusiast, but I'd prefer to root for a winner, and if we are busy getting new QB's in then we will have to hear that rebuilding word that I hate so much,in which they (Texans) will ask for a few more years to get it tigether. Win now or show some significant promise that's all I need from the guy. Fairly or unfairly criticized, just make it happen now BA-BY

But all the Carr supporters are the ones saying we'll be lucky to be 8-8 at the end of the year......

 

[thunderkyss]

What exactly is it that you think we are doing??? New front office, new coaching staff, a slew of new players.....we scrapped pretty much EVERYBODY except Carr and are starting over....we are rebuilding....you know that 5 year plan we heard so much about? Well start the clock over to year 1, because that just happened. You can go back to the inagural season if you like......I was nothing but optimistic about the man...gave him a pass his first 2 years......but he never showed the growth he needed to show.

Flanagan, Putz, Moulds, and Cook....... those are our only new starters on offense. 4 out of 11 ain't rebuilding.

Mario, Weaver, Cowart?? Ryans?? 4 out of 11..... we aren't rebuilding......

 

[tulexan]

The Bears got into the playoffs like that.... The Steelers and the Ravens have won SuperBowls that way..... heck, a lot of teams have won SuperBowls that way.

The only problem is that we didn't have the defense that the Bears, Steelers, and Ravens have/had.

 

[Wolf]

The Bears got into the playoffs like that.... The Steelers and the Ravens have won SuperBowls that way..... heck, a lot of teams have won SuperBowls that way.

my goodness thunderkisss. you have to compare apples with apples..our defense was ranked 30ish.. it is one thing for our defense to be ranked within (what you listed) and win and another where they are ranked different

you have got to be realistic here

 

[Wolf]

The only problem is that we didn't have the defense that the Bears, Steelers, and Ravens have/had.

exaclty..yet these people compare apples to oranges

 

[TwinSisters]

The Bears and the Steelers had fairly good offenses.

Walter Payton wasn't exactly what you would call a goldbricker. Neither was Swann, Stallworth, Harris, Bradshaw, Fuqua, Webster... even then I bet I am missing some.

 

[swtbound07]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your post but please tell me you are not saying you would rather have Sage starting at QB...

that is EXACTLY what I am saying.

 

[RTP2110]

Its funny how some people continue to defend Carr like someone was talking about their mother. Many of you are so optimistic, yet cannot state reasons for being so. You only offer a list of excuses for Carr's poor performance longer than a list of why smoking is bad for you.

Why is this year different than any other? "It just takes some people longer than others." LOL! Did Carr make a 6 on his Wonderlic or is he too dim to pick up the pro game? He's only been playing pro football longer than it takes most people to graduate college.

Is he actually going through his progressions this year?

Has he finally learned that running out of bound behind the line of scrimmage is a sack instead of just throwing the ball away?

Will he actually check to a pass?

I love the whole "David's looking pretty good so far in training camp" pitch because everyone looks like an all-star vs. their own defense (especially one that is as weak as the Texans').

I will preface this post by saying that I'm no football ''expert''. I never even played organized football. I surely don't have much of a ''scout's eye''. But, I play alot of Madden and watch tons of football since the Texans were born. I'm learning. I can't break down Carr's play and tell you what he's doing right or wrong. I can tell when Carr does something really good or really bad.

Now, it is my opinion that Carr's faults are the result of bad coaching, and that he can still be a succesfull, productive, Pro Bowl caliber QB given the right coaching. I have been to every Texans' practice that was open to the fans except for one. What I have seen is a totally different QB in Carr (a totally different offense too). What I have seen is night and day compared to last year. Completion to Johnson on the quick slant. Then to Moulds on a curl, then to Joppru on a drag route, hitting the backs out of the backfield, TE's down the seam, Johnson on the deep routes. It's unreal, Carr looks 10 times better than I have ever seen him. The one knock I always did have on Carr, was how he locked on to one reciever. I believe that was because he had no other option, because now I watch for that in the practices. I have noticed him stare down a guy a time or two, but for the most part Carr is making reads and progessions better than I have ever seen.

Now, in your post you say, ''Many of you are so optimistic, yet cannot state reasons for being so.'' Well let me give you my reason. Like I said, I'm no expert but, Carr has endorsements from Kubiak, McNair, Reeves, many NFL coaching candidates, even Casserly and Capers. When Kubiak was hired he watched every play in Carr's 4 year career, and decided he's the man for the job. Those guys are the experts. Those guys know more about NFL football than any of us typing on a message board probably ever will. If that many experts have faith and belief in Carr, then that's good enough for me. All JMHO.

 

[Ibar_Harry]

I will preface this post by saying that I'm no football ''expert''. I never even played organized football. I surely don't have much of a ''scout's eye''. But, I play alot of Madden and watch tons of football since the Texans were born. I'm learning. I can't break down Carr's play and tell you what he's doing right or wrong. I can tell when Carr does something really good or really bad.

Now, it is my opinion that Carr's faults are the result of bad coaching, and that he can still be a succesfull, productive, Pro Bowl caliber QB given the right coaching. I have been to every Texans' practice that was open to the fans except for one. What I have seen is a totally different QB in Carr (a totally different offense too). What I have seen is night and day compared to last year. Completion to Johnson on the quick slant. Then to Moulds on a curl, then to Joppru on a drag route, hitting the backs out of the backfield, TE's down the seam, Johnson on the deep routes. It's unreal, Carr looks 10 times better than I have ever seen him. The one knock I always did have on Carr, was how he locked on to one reciever. I believe that was because he had no other option, because now I watch for that in the practices. I have noticed him stare down a guy a time or two, but for the most part Carr is making reads and progessions better than I have ever seen.

Now, in your post you say, ''Many of you are so optimistic, yet cannot state reasons for being so.'' Well let me give you my reason. Like I said, I'm no expert but, Carr has endorsements from Kubiak, McNair, Reeves, many NFL coaching candidates, even Casserly and Capers. When Kubiak was hired he watched every play in Carr's 4 year career, and decided he's the man for the job. Those guys are the experts. Those guys know more about NFL football than any of us typing on a message board probably ever will. If that many experts have faith and belief in Carr, then that's good enough for me. All JMHO.

Interesting comments because I have maintained the locking was the result of coaching. They were using max protect with one go to guy. Just doesn't work that well in the NFL anymore. I keep saying we are going to pass more than most people think. Kubiak will adapt to what his players do best. Right now, our strength is in our receiving core. We have two number 1 WR's and some good receiving TE's. Its going to be interesting. Kubiak might run a lot in preseason to test his backs, but to also mislead the other teams. But when the season starts look for them to stretch the field and go for knock out punch. We can deliver it in a hurry this year.

 

[AfricanCracker]

did anybody watch the eagles/raiders game??? Jabar Gaffney is on the eagles now, and wow.. does that guy accomplish anything on the field??? I can see why carr must of had fits with the set of players around aj and dd... he will be much improved this upcoming season with the replacement of gaffney and bradford with moulds and walter.. should be interesting....

 

[TK_Gamer]

the system is gonna be perfect for us, zone blocking doesnt net huge gains but what it does is gain a steady 3 to 4 yds per carry. so you soften em up till they have to bring a saftey and linebacker to the line, then you bootleg/pa the juggler shot. if they dont succumb to that you pick away with the cross and slant routes with te's and fb's till they spread out, then its back to the 4 yd run. before they can adjust to this onslaught its allready too late, and we can keep rotating backs and crammin that 4 yards down their throat.

yer right though, the big difference with our version of kubiaks offense is 2 elite recievers. if they make a mistake, i think we will be goin deep on em.

 

[thunderkyss]

The only problem is that we didn't have the defense that the Bears, Steelers, and Ravens have/had.

The Bears got into the playoffs like that.... The Steelers and the Ravens have won SuperBowls that way..... heck, a lot of teams have won SuperBowls that way.

my goodness thunderkisss. you have to compare apples with apples..our defense was ranked 30ish.. it is one thing for our defense to be ranked within (what you listed) and win and another where they are ranked different

you have got to be realistic here

exaclty..yet these people compare apples to oranges

and offensively we were 30th?? but you want us to open it up like the Colts??

I'm just saying don't knock Caper's style of football, it's a sound philosophy...... it works, it wins games, and it wins SuperBowls.....

We didn't win games, but it wasn't because of our style of play.........

 

[TK_Gamer]

capers strategy does one thing, keep the other team off the field. the texans did best when the defense was clicking and we could keep the status quo, then we couldnt execute on offense and instead of barely winning(wich is capers goal) we barely lost. its a loser mentality to make up for inadequacies in your offense, and stress the the strengths in your defense. last year we had too much of the former, and not enough of the latter. personally i would rather play to win, offense and defense. I think no matter how we do this year, kubiak will play to win and it will be entertaining and make our team better.

 

[tsip]

"I'm just saying don't knock Caper's style of football, it's a sound philosophy...... it works, it wins games, and it wins SuperBowls..... "

There is no other coach in the NFL that runs Caper's style of football-
-you don't score, we won't score--last drive of game that scores points wins
-got the lead, sit on it
-use only 1 RB until he drops
-use same game plan from week to week and make no adjustments during the game
-be predictable
-use the same plays over and over (brickwall theory)

...etc.etc.etc.

It amazes me that people use Caper's name in the same sentence with Cohwer(sp) or Belicheck. These coaches 'play to win' . Sure, they have certain styles of plays they will use but---unlike Capers--if those plays aren't working, they'll try something else. Caper's 'subscribes' to the:brickwall theory that if you do things the same way enough, they will eventually work...and, these coaches learn from their mistakes...Capers doesn't think he makes any, as it is all about 'execution.'

 

[tulexan]

and offensively we were 30th?? but you want us to open it up like the Colts??

I'm just saying don't knock Caper's style of football, it's a sound philosophy...... it works, it wins games, and it wins SuperBowls.....

We didn't win games, but it wasn't because of our style of play.........

Our offense was 30th because of his coaching style.

 

[jerek]

Our offense was 30th because of his coaching style.

Our offense was 30th because David Carr is a sissy and refused to disregard the gameplan and call his own plays at the line. He doesn't have "it" and if his teammates respected him, they would have caught passes that hit them in the hands. His long flowing hair interfered with his vision of the field and if he spent less time in church and didn't show up late to and leave early from practice every single day of his life, then he might be able to drill tacks with the ball from 150 yards out like Vince Young can, and we wouldn't have gone 2-14 last year, and Fangio wouldn't have still been calling Cover 2 out of the 3-4, and Jerome Mathis wouldn't have gotten on that motorcycle, and all of our other crappy players who got cut and haven't been resigned would still be here, and Domanick Davis wouldn't have hurt his knee because our QB would have passed for 6,000 yards and Davis could have sat back and just blocked for Carr, but truthfully he wouldn't have had to do that either because our O-line wouldn't have given up those 48 sacks they were credited with upon review of tape. Then again, who has time for watching tape?

Frankly tulexan, it's Carr's fault, and it's about time you and everybody else around here gets that.

 

[chuckm]

Our offense was 30th because David Carr is a sissy and refused to disregard the gameplan and call his own plays at the line. He doesn't have "it" and if his teammates respected him, they would have caught passes that hit them in the hands. His long flowing hair interfered with his vision of the field and if he spent less time in church and didn't show up late to and leave early from practice every single day of his life, then he might be able to drill tacks with the ball from 150 yards out like Vince Young can, and we wouldn't have gone 2-14 last year, and Fangio wouldn't have still been calling Cover 2 out of the 3-4, and Jerome Mathis wouldn't have gotten on that motorcycle, and all of our other crappy players who got cut and haven't been resigned would still be here, and Domanick Davis wouldn't have hurt his knee because our QB would have passed for 6,000 yards and Davis could have sat back and just blocked for Carr, but truthfully he wouldn't have had to do that either because our O-line wouldn't have given up those 48 sacks they were credited with upon review of tape. Then again, who has time for watching tape?

Frankly tulexan, it's Carr's fault, and it's about time you and everybody else around here gets that.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jerek again.


Aren't you glad you got that off your chest?

 

[texan279]

Our offense was 30th because David Carr is a sissy and refused to disregard the gameplan and call his own plays at the line. He doesn't have "it" and if his teammates respected him, they would have caught passes that hit them in the hands. His long flowing hair interfered with his vision of the field and if he spent less time in church and didn't show up late to and leave early from practice every single day of his life, then he might be able to drill tacks with the ball from 150 yards out like Vince Young can, and we wouldn't have gone 2-14 last year, and Fangio wouldn't have still been calling Cover 2 out of the 3-4, and Jerome Mathis wouldn't have gotten on that motorcycle, and all of our other crappy players who got cut and haven't been resigned would still be here, and Domanick Davis wouldn't have hurt his knee because our QB would have passed for 6,000 yards and Davis could have sat back and just blocked for Carr, but truthfully he wouldn't have had to do that either because our O-line wouldn't have given up those 48 sacks they were credited with upon review of tape. Then again, who has time for watching tape?

Frankly tulexan, it's Carr's fault, and it's about time you and everybody else around here gets that.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jerek again.

 

[tulexan]

Our offense was 30th because David Carr is a sissy and refused to disregard the gameplan and call his own plays at the line. He doesn't have "it" and if his teammates respected him, they would have caught passes that hit them in the hands. His long flowing hair interfered with his vision of the field and if he spent less time in church and didn't show up late to and leave early from practice every single day of his life, then he might be able to drill tacks with the ball from 150 yards out like Vince Young can, and we wouldn't have gone 2-14 last year, and Fangio wouldn't have still been calling Cover 2 out of the 3-4, and Jerome Mathis wouldn't have gotten on that motorcycle, and all of our other crappy players who got cut and haven't been resigned would still be here, and Domanick Davis wouldn't have hurt his knee because our QB would have passed for 6,000 yards and Davis could have sat back and just blocked for Carr, but truthfully he wouldn't have had to do that either because our O-line wouldn't have given up those 48 sacks they were credited with upon review of tape. Then again, who has time for watching tape?

Frankly tulexan, it's Carr's fault, and it's about time you and everybody else around here gets that.

Sorry, I forgot that he lacked "it". If only there was someone in the draft who had "it"

 

[titan hater]

Our offense was 30th because David Carr is a sissy and refused to disregard the gameplan and call his own plays at the line. He doesn't have "it" and if his teammates respected him, they would have caught passes that hit them in the hands. His long flowing hair interfered with his vision of the field and if he spent less time in church and didn't show up late to and leave early from practice every single day of his life, then he might be able to drill tacks with the ball from 150 yards out like Vince Young can, and we wouldn't have gone 2-14 last year, and Fangio wouldn't have still been calling Cover 2 out of the 3-4, and Jerome Mathis wouldn't have gotten on that motorcycle, and all of our other crappy players who got cut and haven't been resigned would still be here, and Domanick Davis wouldn't have hurt his knee because our QB would have passed for 6,000 yards and Davis could have sat back and just blocked for Carr, but truthfully he wouldn't have had to do that either because our O-line wouldn't have given up those 48 sacks they were credited with upon review of tape. Then again, who has time for watching tape?

Frankly tulexan, it's Carr's fault, and it's about time you and everybody else around here gets that.

I guess Carr is the sole reason why we were so bad last year...Come to think of it: David is the reason for the war in the mid east as well.

Sarcasim aside...David was to blame for a lot last year, however, if the coaches failed to recognize this would it not be reaonable to blame his coaches as well? Could you imagine a QB who would disregard his coaches calls. I think more time then not that QB would find himself on the bench...even if Dom was the coach...

 

[jerek]

I guess Carr is the sole reason why we were so bad last year...Come to think of it: David is the reason for the war in the mid east as well.

Sarcasim aside...David was to blame for a lot last year, however, if the coaches failed to recognize this would it not be reaonable to blame his coaches as well? Could you imagine a QB who would disregard his coaches calls. I think more time then not that QB would find himself on the bench...even if Dom was the coach...

Of course David made his mistakes, and of course he shoulders part of that blame. Yes, there were times where he threw a bad or ill-advised pass. Yes, there were instances in which he should have known to throw the ball out of bounds rather than run out and take lost yardage. Yes, he is well paid relative to production at this point, and this is a put up or get out year for the guy. Straight up.

Just get annoyed with the avalanche of hubris coming from the mouths of people that have anywhere from not much to near-zero knowledge of football and are merely sporting a "player-hating" agenda. "Carr should've called something else" ... "I don't read about Carr's extra practice in my weekly sixty-second skim of McClain's column, ergo Carr never works extra practice, ergo Carr is undedicated" ... stuff like that. Please. Just stupid.

 

[WWX]

Has anyone here ever played behind a real crappy coaching staff? Or played for a team where the rich kids receive first priority as a starter? Any situation where you don’t have good quality leadership will mostly end in disaster. Nobody hired Capers for four years after his time with Carolina. Then we picked him up of course. And in his eight years he had one season above 500. 48-80 as a head coach, correct me if I’m wrong. That’s where I put most of the blame.



BTW Dom came to Houston with 30-34 record.

 

[thunderkyss]

Our offense was 30th because David Carr is a sissy and refused to disregard the gameplan and call his own plays at the line. He doesn't have "it" and if his teammates respected him, they would have caught passes that hit them in the hands. His long flowing hair interfered with his vision of the field and if he spent less time in church and didn't show up late to and leave early from practice every single day of his life, then he might be able to drill tacks with the ball from 150 yards out like Vince Young can, and we wouldn't have gone 2-14 last year, and Fangio wouldn't have still been calling Cover 2 out of the 3-4, and Jerome Mathis wouldn't have gotten on that motorcycle, and all of our other crappy players who got cut and haven't been resigned would still be here, and Domanick Davis wouldn't have hurt his knee because our QB would have passed for 6,000 yards and Davis could have sat back and just blocked for Carr, but truthfully he wouldn't have had to do that either because our O-line wouldn't have given up those 48 sacks they were credited with upon review of tape. Then again, who has time for watching tape?

Frankly tulexan, it's Carr's fault, and it's about time you and everybody else around here gets that.

So are you saying that teams have not won football games through ball control and defense?? that it is flawed philosophy??

Or are you insinuating that I am inferring all that you've just insinuated that I said??

 

[chuckm]

Or are you insinuating that I am inferring all that you've just insinuated that I said??

OK, who has the enigma machine?

 

[thunderkyss]

hehehe

 

[jerek]

So are you saying that teams have not won football games through ball control and defense?? that it is flawed philosophy??

Or are you insinuating that I am inferring all that you've just insinuated that I said??

Uhhh ... what?

I don't know what you are inferring. If you meant to discuss what you are implying, then yes, you have quite clearly implied a disproportinate (IMO) level of blame for the Texans' woes to Carr, both in this thread and the countless others you have littered with anti-Carr rhetoric, like so many droppings in a week-old rabbit cage.

Teams win with ball control as it applies to successfully maintaining and scoring offensive drives (we didn't do that maintaing and scoring part much last year.) Teams win with defense (we sure as hell didn't do that either.) Not sure how that applies to my obviously sarcastic statements about Carr, or is supposed to be taken as the primary implication of your largely anti-Carr history of posting.

 

[titan hater]

Of course David made his mistakes, and of course he shoulders part of that blame. Yes, there were times where he threw a bad or ill-advised pass. Yes, there were instances in which he should have known to throw the ball out of bounds rather than run out and take lost yardage. Yes, he is well paid relative to production at this point, and this is a put up or get out year for the guy. Straight up.

Just get annoyed with the avalanche of hubris coming from the mouths of people that have anywhere from not much to near-zero knowledge of football and are merely sporting a "player-hating" agenda. "Carr should've called something else" ... "I don't read about Carr's extra practice in my weekly sixty-second skim of McClain's column, ergo Carr never works extra practice, ergo Carr is undedicated" ... stuff like that. Please. Just stupid.

wholeheartly agree with ya

 

[thunderkyss]

Uhhh ... what?

I don't know what you are inferring. If you meant to discuss what you are implying, then yes, you have quite clearly implied a disproportinate (IMO) level of blame for the Texans' woes to Carr, both in this thread and the countless others you have littered with anti-Carr rhetoric, like so many droppings in a week-old rabbit cage.

Show me where.........

All I've ever said, was that Carr has not played like a 4 year starter should be playiing....

I have not blamed one loss on the kid...... I have said that he is just as much to blame for those loses as Victor Riley, Milford Brown, Jabar Gaffney, Gary Walker, Jason Babin...... etc........ etc.......

Teams win with ball control as it applies to successfully maintaining and scoring offensive drives (we didn't do that maintaing and scoring part much last year.) Teams win with defense (we sure as hell didn't do that either.) Not sure how that applies to my obviously sarcastic statements about Carr, or is supposed to be taken as the primary implication of your largely anti-Carr history of posting.

I said we didn't lose because Capers believed in a ball control offense, and strong defense...... and that is all that means.

 

[Hulk75]

Show me where.........

All I've ever said, was that Carr has not played like a 4 year starter should be playiing....

I have not blamed one loss on the kid...... I have said that he is just as much to blame for those loses as Victor Riley, Milford Brown, Jabar Gaffney, Gary Walker, Jason Babin...... etc........ etc.......



I said we didn't lose because Capers believed in a ball control offense, and strong defense...... and that is all that means.

WOW, is thunder fighting with another person about Carr. SHOCKER!

 

[jerek]

Show me where.........

All I've ever said, was that Carr has not played like a 4 year starter should be playiing....

I have not blamed one loss on the kid...... I have said that he is just as much to blame for those loses as Victor Riley, Milford Brown, Jabar Gaffney, Gary Walker, Jason Babin...... etc........ etc.......

How in the world do you figure? Do you watch football? Victor ******* Riley? Gary Walker? Tell me something: why haven't either of those guys been signed yet? If Marcus Coleman drops the ball on that onside kick that would have sealed our win against St. Louis, is that equally Carr's fault too? What, Carr was calling the defensive plays? Carr told Kris Brown to miss all those field goals? I don't even know where you get this stuff.

I said we didn't lose because Capers believed in a ball control offense, and strong defense...... and that is all that means.

Calling Capers' system a "ball control offense" is like shooting from half court and calling it a "three point offense." True from certain technical standpoint, but no one's surprised when you get it handed to you. Capers can "believe in" a strong defense all he likes, but since we never "executed" such a defense, I'd love to hear how you're going to spin the blame on David for that one too. If the coaches implement the system and both call boneheaded plays and repeatedly utilize personnel who are obviously incompetent, who's fault is that?

 

[GP]

2 days ago, highroller28 hijacked this thread and turned it into a "Carr stinks" forum. It took 11 posts before he hit with the 12th post in the thread.

Of course, we all played our part and fanned his flames...but man, it would have been nice to discuss training camp and to NOT re-hash the old David Carr Stinks debate.

Would have been nice....but, oh well.

 

[Hulk75]

and offensively we were 30th?? but you want us to open it up like the Colts??

I'm just saying don't knock Caper's style of football, it's a sound philosophy...... it works, it wins games, and it wins SuperBowls.....

We didn't win games, but it wasn't because of our style of play.........

That could by FAAAAAAAAAAAR be the craziest thing I have heard in a while.