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Texans Trade for Phillip Buchannon (second thread)
- Thread starter Vinny
- Start date
D-ReK
RAWWWRR!
The point remains that Barron isn't an impact guy and we could use impact guys at WR and OLB, but this is draft talk in the Bull Pen, so I digress and strongly recommend you take all draft talk to the 2005 NFL Draft forum...
So with Buchanon in the fold, what does everyone think the over/under is on Glenn's remaining years here? I'm almost positive he'll be starting here this year, but what if Buchanon shows well next season? Would we ask Glenn to restructure, cut him, trade him, or reduce his role here? I like Glenn a lot since we're from the same area, so I'd love to see him retire here...
So with Buchanon in the fold, what does everyone think the over/under is on Glenn's remaining years here? I'm almost positive he'll be starting here this year, but what if Buchanon shows well next season? Would we ask Glenn to restructure, cut him, trade him, or reduce his role here? I like Glenn a lot since we're from the same area, so I'd love to see him retire here...
The environment here will be much better than what it was in Oakland. Going through that disastrous year in 2003 would have tested anyone's patience. Players were calling out coaches. Then Norv comes in with a new staff. That place has been a disaster since Gruden left.
Here, he comes into a more stable situation with people he knows - AJ is a close friend from what I've heard. Hoke knows him. He's always had a lot of upside but I don't think he's had the structure or system around him in the NFL the last two years to maximize his potential - and minimize the selfish part. He's also three years older and maybe he's at that age where he can start to figure it out. He was a young pup of 21 when he went to Oakland. He's only 3 months older than Gaffney.
Here, he comes into a more stable situation with people he knows - AJ is a close friend from what I've heard. Hoke knows him. He's always had a lot of upside but I don't think he's had the structure or system around him in the NFL the last two years to maximize his potential - and minimize the selfish part. He's also three years older and maybe he's at that age where he can start to figure it out. He was a young pup of 21 when he went to Oakland. He's only 3 months older than Gaffney.
AndroidRaider24
Noob
Too bad you guys didnt still have Sharper , i wouldnt mind taking him, but like Tiger said both teams fans think they got the better. IMO both teams did great , PB is still 24 and cheap , Raiders need some draft picks to draft the massive shortage at LBs... im sorry i came off as a troll yesterday, i wish the Texans good luck with him !
D-ReK said:So it looks like it's pretty much a concensus: Texans fans like the trade, but Titan and Raider fans don't...I like that...If we can keep his attitude in check, then we may have gotten a steal...
Of course both Raider and Texan fans are going to have opinions. But take a look at the posts from other teams' fans in the first thread... especially the AFC West Teams that watch the Raiders all season. Buchanon for a 2nd and a 3rd is highway robbery.
Who knows, maybe your front office saw something in him that the Raiders didn't. Maybe they will know how to use him. It happens. Look at Steve Foley after he came to the Chargers. He's been a monster for us. But don't base your optimism on his past play. It stunk. It stunk so much that Buchanon was fodder for the Chargers' foums whenever the Gayders came to town.
And, yes, I am biased... against the Raiders. I would love to say that they got the shaft. Nothing would please me more. But a 2nd and a 3rd in a draft that may not be great in star quality but has plenty of depth... man, that just seems exhorbitant.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I kinda assumed as much. My point is I'm not going to worry about all the derog net quotes from anonymous fans who range from 14 year olds to people who may or may not know what they are looking at when they watch a football game. Casserly likes to take extra picks like this extra Henson 3rd and package for players or picks. He stated that we would not find a player ready to play like Buchannon in the 2nd round. Mission accomplished, Buchannon is our 2nd round pick now. We will just have to wait for rounds 1 and 3 on Saturday.Enormo said:
D-ReK
RAWWWRR!
Enormo said:
I guess you didn't know that there is a 50% chance that a 2nd round pick will ever become a starter and a 30% chance that a 3rd rounder will ever become a starter...The Redskins were thinking about giving up the 9th overall for Buchanon and the 38th overall, so based on that, we got a steal...Is there going to be a 2nd or 3rd rounder that has the measurables that Buchanon has? Of course not...This is a weak draft, and I couldn't care less about our 2nd round pick and our second 3rd round pick...He is a proven game breaker, like it or not...But ummm, yeah, we got got raped in this deal
...Get real dude...AndroidRaider24
Noob
Im sorry D-Rek but you are sadly mistaken, they never were going to do that, the even denied the trade rumors publicly ...D-ReK said:
blockhead83
Rookie
It was a good trade for both teams. They get depth picks in a decent depth draft (not alot of star power here), and we get a young, proven corner. He's by no means a pro-bowler, but as alot of you have pointed out, he basically represents our 2nd round pick, and he's better than any CB's available in the 2nd round of the draft in my, and Casserly's, opinion. He's got alot of upside, and he could flourish in Houston and eventually become a very good #2 for us.
Vinny said:
Derogatory quotes? The only derogatory quotes I have heard are from you. The quotes from other Teams fans seem to be pretty balance and well intentioned... and not "from 14 year olds and know nothings".
Personally, I just felt like chiming in on this forum because I follow other AFC West teams pretty closely and Buchanon frequently gets discussed on the Chargers boards I belong to. I thought some people on this board might find an opinion outside a Raider/Texan opinion to be interesting.
I like the Texans and I hate the Raiders... I have no interest in "sticking it to you guys."
I just think that based on PBs performance a 2nd and a 3rd was too much. I think it would have been better spent on trading up (seems like plenty of teams would be willing to trade down in this draft) and grabbing Rolle or Jones . Especially Jones because he seems to be in the same mould as PB... except he's not a headcase yet.
Granted, you wouldn't get the experience that your GM wanted. But IMO (and opinions *are* what these forums are about) I would rather have incredible potential with his head on his shoulders than a poor player who is a lockerroom cancer but has a couple of years under his belt. Especially, if he is going to be starting out covering the slot in a nickel role.
AndroidRaider24
Noob
true , after all , they just got robbed by the Broncos......D-ReK said:
Fiddy
All Pro
texan279
Hall of Fame
I might be crazy for thinking this, but does anyone else think that we might have traded for Buchanon to use him in a trade on draft day, maybe sending Buchanon and our #13 to one of the teams that are picking maybe #1-#6 or #7? Or does Buchanon not have the attitude problem that some people try to say that he has?
texasguy346
Mod Squad
That's an interesting idea especially since the Titans are likely looking to pick up a CB at #6. It's tough to say though because we've got no idea how the Titans have the CBs like Rolle or Pac Man or Rodgers graded out compared to Buchannon. I'd like to say that it isn't likely to happen, but with CC at the helm draft day is always unpredictable.
Issues people keep bringing up that are critical of the Trade:
1) PB was a "cancer" for OAK.
--- He is now in a "family" environment surrounded with people he is familiar with. Good friend from college & Miami (AJ), and familliarity with DB coach (Hoke) who happened to form a relationship with PB when he was a coach at Florida trying to recruit PB.
2) PB has not played up to his potential.
--- The coaching staff was a wreck and the lockerroom was already a problem. Being with a team that is as structured and disciplined as the Texans will do nothing but bring out the best from PB.
AJ, canadian and others touched on these facts. I myself have begun to embrace this trade. Now, if the Texans trade down and pickup a 3rd rounder, I'd say the 2nd round pick was worth it for PB. However, after last years' draft surprise (trading up for Babin), I would not rule anything out for this weekend. One thing is for sure, the Texans staff sure know how to play the Drama and keep the fans in suspense!
1) PB was a "cancer" for OAK.
--- He is now in a "family" environment surrounded with people he is familiar with. Good friend from college & Miami (AJ), and familliarity with DB coach (Hoke) who happened to form a relationship with PB when he was a coach at Florida trying to recruit PB.
2) PB has not played up to his potential.
--- The coaching staff was a wreck and the lockerroom was already a problem. Being with a team that is as structured and disciplined as the Texans will do nothing but bring out the best from PB.
AJ, canadian and others touched on these facts. I myself have begun to embrace this trade. Now, if the Texans trade down and pickup a 3rd rounder, I'd say the 2nd round pick was worth it for PB. However, after last years' draft surprise (trading up for Babin), I would not rule anything out for this weekend. One thing is for sure, the Texans staff sure know how to play the Drama and keep the fans in suspense!
texan279
Hall of Fame
Well, I was just wondering. I have been thinking about this trade today, and it seems weird to me. Even though I don't know a lot about Buchanon, he does not seem to be the type of player (character wise) that I am not used to seeing on our team, he seems like a "me" type of player, like nicknaming himself "Showtime" and talking about himself in the 3rd person, but like I said I don't know much about him at all. I was thinking maybe we trade up into the top 5 or 6 and pick up DJ if he is still there. Sorry if my thoughts on the Buchanon thing are a little off, don't get me wrong whatever we can do to improve our team I am all for it, my brain is a little fried this week... 
Sorry if my thoughts on the Buchanon thing are a little off, don't get me wrong whatever we can do to improve our team I am all for it, my brain is a little fried this week... 
scourge
Digression King
I would suspect that if he played well this season he'd get a decent contract extension for the '06 season. I like this trade, but one thing bothers me. Since its a trade and not a FA signing, does he really want to be a Texan? Because if he doesnt want to be here then he'll probably try and leave when this contract is up...
Well we have built a solid foundation of character for this team. We have hard working, humble, sportsmanlike players.
However, you would be shooting yourself in the foot if you avoided players with Egos. The NFL is full of egos and alot of the best players in the league are sporting some of the biggest egos.
All we can hope is that the foundation we have built will allow us to convert the egomaniacs that we sign into good, mature players.
However, you would be shooting yourself in the foot if you avoided players with Egos. The NFL is full of egos and alot of the best players in the league are sporting some of the biggest egos.
All we can hope is that the foundation we have built will allow us to convert the egomaniacs that we sign into good, mature players.
Enormo said:
Two words for ya.
Steve.. Foley..
think about it.
as for a 2nd and 3rd being too much.
we had 2 3rds. We got one of those thirds from the drew henson trade (6th for a 3rd)
so really.. we traded a 2nd and a 6th. and moved up in the 3rd (we kept the cowboy's #73)
This is great value for a young player with Buchanan's talents, who just wants a new start somewhere else.
Grid said:
I have thought about it. I already brought up Foley in one of my earlier posts and I've been saying all this with the caveat of "I hope whatever the Texans front office sees in Buchanon pans out".
But in all honesty there's not much to "think about." Just because one poorly performing player turns out to be a diamond in the rough doesn't mean that every player like this will be the same.
And I don't know much about Foley pre-Charger days but I would bet that he wasn't a lockerroom cancer like Buchanon has been.
And no... you didn't give away a 6th. You gave away a third. If I had an accountant who worked numbers like that he would be looking for another job.
If it makes all of you glass half full guys happy, there are some on the Chargers boards who think that Buchanon under the right circumstances will perform well. If he has regular support over the top and you can put some pressure on the QB he will come up with some big plays for you guys. But don't do those two things and he will get burned... just like I've watched him get burned since near the beginning of his career. Or maybe your coaches can convince him to settle down and not bite on every pump fake by the QB and move by a WR.
I hope he pans out for you guys. But if you think this was simply a great deal for a player who simply needed a change I think you've got a case of the "Go Texans! Rah! Rahs!". This guy has problems on and off the field. He is a risk and a project.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
D-ReK said:
It would appear the Texans' coaching and scouting staffs do not share many fans' opinions on the advantages of matching bigger CB's on bigger WR's:
Aaron Glenn--5' 9" 185 lbs
Dunta Robinson--5' 10" 174 lbs
Demarcus Faggins--5' 10" 178 lbs
Phillip Buchanon--5' 10" 185 lbs
Seems like they are pretty consistant in what they are looking for and it ain't big CB's.
D-ReK
RAWWWRR!
infantrycak said:
We did have Coleman playing CB though, and he's 6'2"...Casserly has already said he liked Rolle and he was brought in for a visit, though it is possible that it was all just positioning on his part...I think size may be overrated though, and can be made up for by a good vertical and proper positioning, which is what Glenn excels at...Hopefully he can teach a few things to Buchanon, assuming we keep him, of course...
Wolf
100% Texan
not sure if we will try to get a CB...I mean cap wise it would cost us (for top10 pick)... (meaning why not trade up for DJ if that is who we are targeting instead of CB)
www.houstonprofootball.com
www.houstonprofootball.com
Enormo said:
And neither you or I can say who will do better somewhere else, and who wont. So its kinda pointless for you to say he will keep sucking when you have nothing to base that on.
And he has been playing for the Raiders :P. Of course he became a "lockerroom cancer".. but he is coming to Houston where NO ONE is a lockerroom cancer, and he will be playing alongside his Andre Johnson (who was at the U with him) and training under John Hoke (who recruited him)
I would say that puts him in a very good position to finally get rid of some of that attitude and show his true potential.
For one.. its pretty stupid of you to come to a Texans fan board and accuse them of being positive about the Texans.
Two.. he has been in the league THREE seasons. he looked good his first season.. he developed his attitude and bad habits in his second season.. and he wanted to leave and refused to play hard in his third season. I would hardly say that that is enough info to call him a bust. If he can come here and get a fresh start.. there is no reason to beleive that he cant become the player he had the potential to be when he was drafted.
Why I am even bothering to write this is beyond me. You are a charger fan, on our bourd, telling us we are homers
. And on top of that.. we are talking the merits of a player who played for one of your rival teams, and got burned by you last year (when he wasnt playing hard, remember?)It is all conjecture at this point.. and you are no more right than I am on this subject. So quit flingin around the stereotypes eh?
Wolf said:
Any chance of us getting DJ fell through the roof when we made this trade. Unless DJ falls to 13.
That is fine though because DJ was sound more and more questionable as the draft got closer :P. I think Merriman and Pollack are as good a prospect(s) as DJ... and one or both could be available to us at 13.
Erratic Assassin
Rookie
dagr8whitehope said:
As much as I would love to see us upgrade our LT on offense, we REALLY need a defensive lineman or a linebacker. Our defensive line got real old real fast and our linebackers aren't making plays.
Defense is our most pressing need. Besides a rookie LT is going to make a lot of costly mistakes. I could handle rookie mistakes the last 3 years, but not next year. We should be making a serious run at the playoffs next year, so I'm not going to have a lot a patience for a rookie LT giving up sacks and penalties.
I guess my big disappointment is that I'd like to see us upgrade the OL, and having given up two picks, I'm not sure we'll do that. On the other hand, Capers and Co. may have already figured out exactly how to upgrade the line without those picks.
Maybe they're waiting to pick up somebody June 1, or maybe they've got something in the works now. Just feel like after they went after Pace, they were intent on fixing part of the line this year.
Somehow, I think they've got a little more savvy than me. Hopefully will feel better Saturday or Sunday.
Maybe they're waiting to pick up somebody June 1, or maybe they've got something in the works now. Just feel like after they went after Pace, they were intent on fixing part of the line this year.
Somehow, I think they've got a little more savvy than me. Hopefully will feel better Saturday or Sunday.
texan279
Hall of Fame
I will admit, I have been ranting and raving the last few weeks about how we need to improve the O line and draft O line, but after thinking about it, I don't think this year's draft is the way to improve the O line. Our O line now has one full year together under their belt, so I am willing to give them one more year to see how they pan out, and if they don't pan out, we could draft O line in next year's draft, which should have much better O line talent than this year's draft. I am all for drafting defense with our first pick in this year's draft, I say we draft someone who could come in and start and be a monster on defense with our 1st pick this year, add him to Babin who has a year under his belt, DRob, Buchanon now and our defense should be good to go. And I know Vinny, this thread is getting off topic, but it was off topic when I got here...
Wonder what other surprises CC is going to spring on us.
Don't know if it's been posted in here somewhere, BUT Oakland traded that #47 to the Jets tonight.
Interesting week!
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/21/RAIDERS21.TMP
Don't know if it's been posted in here somewhere, BUT Oakland traded that #47 to the Jets tonight.
Interesting week!
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/21/RAIDERS21.TMP
Grid said:And neither you or I can say who will do better somewhere else, and who wont. So its kinda pointless for you to say he will keep sucking when you have nothing to base that on.
And he has been playing for the Raiders :P. Of course he became a "lockerroom cancer".. but he is coming to Houston where NO ONE is a lockerroom cancer, and he will be playing alongside his Andre Johnson (who was at the U with him) and training under John Hoke (who recruited him)
I would say that puts him in a very good position to finally get rid of some of that attitude and show his true potential.
For one.. its pretty stupid of you to come to a Texans fan board and accuse them of being positive about the Texans.
Two.. he has been in the league THREE seasons. he looked good his first season.. he developed his attitude and bad habits in his second season.. and he wanted to leave and refused to play hard in his third season. I would hardly say that that is enough info to call him a bust. If he can come here and get a fresh start.. there is no reason to beleive that he cant become the player he had the potential to be when he was drafted.
Why I am even bothering to write this is beyond me. You are a charger fan, on our bourd, telling us we are homers
It is all conjecture at this point.. and you are no more right than I am on this subject. So quit flingin around the stereotypes eh?
Sorry you feel it necesary to lash out like that.
I think you guys have a good team and I said that I hope your coaches find the key to unlocking Buchanons potential.
Stereotypes? Buchanon a bust? Hey, you said it. I didn't.
Nice talking to all of you who wanted to have a discussion. Enjoy your board.
i think after hearing the press conference with casserly and capers it definitly sounds like we are trading down unless a true impact player falls to us...like benson or one of the top recievers...dj won't fall...i think we trade down somewhere between 16-24 and pick either clayton, spears, or one of the remaining DE/OLB's...the main question now is who is starting next to D-Rob...capers hinted that aaron might be placed as the third corner due to buchanan's ability...personally i see PB being our nickelback for a year but after that i'd say it's just up to competition to see who's better between him and glenn...either way i'm looking forward to the draft on saturday...it's the only good thing that seems to be going on this week
canadiantexan
Waterboy
SassyTexan said:
what did they get for it ? sorry did'nt see the link
scourge said:
Isn't his agent Rosenhaus? Has there been any talk that he wants a new contract or anything? I don't necessarily see anything he's done that deserves a bigger contract but I was just curious if we've actually heard "from the horse's mouth" that renegotiating his contract was/was not involved in this deal? Rosenhaus just makes me nervous....
outofhnd
Rookie
I love this trade.
This shows initiative Its telling me we are tired of projects and we are gonna get impact players now.
Buchanon was a cancer in the lockeroom so was Woodson, Barrett (missing in action) Robbins, and most of the Defense last year. You cant blame Buchanon for the whole defense last year Sapp was even disgusted at how the unit performed. I think the raiders are cleaning out the players they didnt like who have potential but were not happy so they are gone. Harris, Buchanon, had value so they traded for what they could get.
So lets look at needs now
WR - Bradford Resigning - Not our #1 Pick
OL - Barron - could be our target who knows.
LB - Plethora of mega athletic Tweeners this year most like where we go with #1 pick
CB - Well I think this deal tells all we need to know.
S - Davis too high at 13
RB - No way we need instant defensive starters.
TE - no fantastic TE
DL - Depends if Spears falls to us if we trade down then this is our #1
This shows initiative Its telling me we are tired of projects and we are gonna get impact players now.
Buchanon was a cancer in the lockeroom so was Woodson, Barrett (missing in action) Robbins, and most of the Defense last year. You cant blame Buchanon for the whole defense last year Sapp was even disgusted at how the unit performed. I think the raiders are cleaning out the players they didnt like who have potential but were not happy so they are gone. Harris, Buchanon, had value so they traded for what they could get.
So lets look at needs now
WR - Bradford Resigning - Not our #1 Pick
OL - Barron - could be our target who knows.
LB - Plethora of mega athletic Tweeners this year most like where we go with #1 pick
CB - Well I think this deal tells all we need to know.
S - Davis too high at 13
RB - No way we need instant defensive starters.
TE - no fantastic TE
DL - Depends if Spears falls to us if we trade down then this is our #1
utahmark
markbeth
Grid said:
i hope the front office doesnt think like that. we work hard to get those extra picks. even though we turned our 6th into a 3rd. its a third now and should not be though of as a 6th.
two years ago we worked hard to get an extra pick from the raiders and spent it on hollings and a lot of people rationalized that it was a free pick so it would not matter if it was a bust. free pick or not it was a second round pick and should have been thought of as such. not much use in working to get those picks if you devalue them once you have em'.