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Texans Trade for Anthony Miller

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Why is it so difficult for some people to admit Caserio's mistakes. Why?
I don’t think I have that problem.

However, are we sure Miller would have hit waivers? I get it, if you don’t care if you get the player or not. But if you wanted Miller there’s no guarantee he would get cut. Bears were shopping him, it’s plausible that someone else would have traded for him.

Finley, yeah chances are he would have hit waivers.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Bears were shopping him, it’s plausible that someone else would have traded for him.
The Texans just cut Miller and no one picked him up. I assume they tried to trade him first. Do you need more evidence than that? I think my assertion is on very firm ground.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
I don’t think I have that problem.

However, are we sure Miller would have hit waivers? I get it, if you don’t care if you get the player or not. But if you wanted Miller there’s no guarantee he would get cut. Bears were shopping him, it’s plausible that someone else would have traded for him.

Finley, yeah chances are he would have hit waivers.
Yep just like the Texans earlier this offseason announced they were cutting John Reid and then the Seahawks offer a pick to secure their guy without testing the waiver wire.

Or just this week when the Pats announced they were cutting Gilmore and the Panthers offered a pick before the transaction became official.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The Texans just cut Miller and no one picked him up. I assume they tried to trade him first. Do you need more evidence than that? I think my assertion is on very firm ground.
May have something to do with yet another injury. Before, yes. Plausible someone else would have traded for him back then.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
I assume its tied to playing time or how long he’s on the roster. He’s still on the Seahawks.
It looks like the Seahawks waived Reid, then re-signed him after clearing waivers. That may have nullified the pick.

Transactions
  • Transaction, fine, and suspension data since 2015
September 7, 2021: Seattle Seahawks signed CB John Reid
August 31, 2021: Seattle Seahawks waived CB John Reid
August 24, 2021: Houston Texans traded CB John Reid to Seahawks
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
A stupid trade for a player that was about to be cut and become available on the waiver wire for free.

Why is it so difficult for some people to admit Caserio's mistakes. Why?
lol, why is it so difficult for you to grasp that giving up a 5th round pick isn’t the end of the world and does virtually nothing to set the rebuild back. Crying about the loss of a 5th round pick is equivalent to bitching about 1 incomplete pass in the midst of a blowout game.

You guys just wanna complain about something.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
That was a pick swap. Nothing bank breaking
Nothing is bank breaking because Caserio doesn't have anything big in the bank. He just gets taken on deals, over and over. What happens when he has real draft capital? Who has confidence that Caserio can win a deal?
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
That was a pick swap. Nothing bank breaking
The 3 picks swapped added up to 37 trade value points which is the equivalent to a late 4th RD pick. The Patriots improved their draft capital in 3 different rounds for a guy they were going to cut later in the week. These things matter to a responsible GM who is meticulous in managing the smallest of details to improve his team. Others less detailed GMs see it as no big deal.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
If it were only one….
the only people sweating losing 5-7 round picks are draft nerds and fans who wanna complain about something. GM’s frequently use these picks as throw-ins with other deals; aside from that they still have more than few to put together a good draft. The uproar about this from some is much ado about nothing. Just wanna complain.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Caserio has enough players on this roster to move for additional RD5 and RD7 picks…if needed.
2022 PICKS:
RD1
RD2
RD3
RD3 (Saints)
RD4 (Rams)
——RD5 / TO BEARS——
RD6
RD6 (Jets)
RD6 (Packers)
RD7 (Cowboys)

2023 X-TRA PICKS:
RD6 (Giants)
RD6 (Saints)
He needs more 1’s and 2’s…

Could he have traded the 5th, the 6’s and the 7’s for a 1st instead of using them and “wasting” them? Is that how it works?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Caserio has enough players on this roster to move for additional RD5 and RD7 picks…if needed.
2022 PICKS:
RD1
RD2
RD3
RD3 (Saints)
RD4 (Rams)
——RD5 / TO BEARS——
RD6
RD6 (Jets)
RD6 (Packers)
RD7 (Cowboys)

2023 X-TRA PICKS:
RD6 (Giants)
RD6 (Saints)
Sure, but that was after he spent a lot of money to buy some of those picks when he pays for the salaries of the players he traded .
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Sure, but that was after he spent a lot of money to buy some of those picks when he pays for the salaries of the players he traded .
whether he “bought” them or not, it’s nonsensical for fans to criticize NC for “losing” day 3 picks. They’re throw away picks as it is and I would rather him throw them away on a 1st round talent than some guy destined to be a ST gunner or career practice team squader.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
whether he “bought” them or not, it’s nonsensical for fans to criticize NC for “losing” day 3 picks. They’re throw away picks as it is and I would rather him throw them away on a 1st round talent than some guy destined to be a ST gunner or career practice team squader.
Everybody has his own philosophy.

Some poster had posted a link to a study on draft picks by round somewhere a few days ago.

I had seen that and also another study some time ago.
I agree that late picks have more values than many people think (including you).

I also agree that it could be used both ways.
In this day and age; however, those low draft picks have more values for several reasons: injuries, quick turn around of the NFL roster, salaries.

I think a good GM should strike a certain balance of the two approaches
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
whether he “bought” them or not, it’s nonsensical for fans to criticize NC for “losing” day 3 picks. They’re throw away picks as it is and I would rather him throw them away on a 1st round talent than some guy destined to be a ST gunner or career practice team squader.
I tend to favor the other side of the coin. I want to accumulate as many draft picks as possible- especially in a rebuilding phase. Young moldable talent at a cheap rate seems the easiest path to a quick turnaround assuming just 1 thing: you trust your scouting department.

I'm not sure N.C. does.

So far the approach on trades has been haphazard imo ,but I'm not sure Miller was a victim of nc's talent search. I think it was a locker room culture cut. That's speculation on my part no doubt. Just, I wish they gave a damn about what little draft capital we have. This is at least the 2nd time we've traded for a guy we subsequently cut in short order. I don't like the method at all.

I think an ongoing "Caserio trades thread" reviewing what we spent vs returns would be kick azz. I'm not ocd enough on the topic to try it though.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I want to accumulate as many draft picks as possible- especially in a rebuilding phase. Young moldable talent at a cheap rate seems the easiest path to a quick turnaround
Anthony Miller was a 2nd round pick. Bears wanted to move him because he threw punches in a game & probably because of his injury issues. I don't mind spending a 5th round pick for a 27 year old.

I do like the idea of accumulating draft picks, even 3rd day picks. But for packaging in trades.

I'm not too big on 3rd day talent. These are the guys we're talking about when we say, "wouldn't start for another team."

Not saying we shouldn't pick anyone on the third day, just don't want too many of them on the 53. I don't think they'll help a quick turnaround.

I'm not happy at all about cutting Miller.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Neither am I. In the two games he played he was a part of the gameplan. No, he wasn’t an impact player but he contributed. Which should have been enough to keep his roster spot this season when we’ve got return specialists muffing punts and running backs with more carries than yards.
We didn't just cut him. We traded a player to get him so we could cut him. We magnified the stupid.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I think we as fans tend to overvalue draft capital period b/c there’s a disconnect in thinking that all these guys can and will develop and HC/GM’s know better; which is why most tend to prefer experienced guys over developmental guys. Most Guys taken in the 5-7 rounds that top out as special teamers are plentiful. They are largely the reasons why the average NFL career is only 3-4 years.

yes on occasion you’ll find a gem like Bobby Wagner or a Richard Sherman…but more often those guys turn out to be Treston Decouds and Reshad Clietts…you guys might be like “who?”………. and I’m like my point exactly.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I tend to favor the other side of the coin. I want to accumulate as many draft picks as possible- especially in a rebuilding phase. Young moldable talent at a cheap rate seems the easiest path to a quick turnaround assuming just 1 thing: you trust your scouting department.

I'm not sure N.C. does.

So far the approach on trades has been haphazard imo ,but I'm not sure Miller was a victim of nc's talent search. I think it was a locker room culture cut. That's speculation on my part no doubt. Just, I wish they gave a damn about what little draft capital we have. This is at least the 2nd time we've traded for a guy we subsequently cut in short order. I don't like the method at all.

I think an ongoing "Caserio trades thread" reviewing what we spent vs returns would be kick azz. I'm not ocd enough on the topic to try it though.
I don’t think you can make the determination that he doesn’t trust his scouting department based on a couple of trades in the 1st year of his tenure. I could see your point if he gave up high end draft capital for an aging veteran player, but that’s not what he did. Miller was a young 1st/2nd round talent who had done some things in this league. Using a 5th round pick to get him and seeing if he could revive his career here is as good of a use of that 5th round pick as using it to draft a Keith Mumphrey…calculated Risk…in actuality it’s a little less of a calculated risk b/c at least you knew Miller could play in the NFL whereas there is no guarantee that any kid you pick in the draft at that spot is even gonna see the field on sundays.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
A stupid trade for a player that was about to be cut and become available on the waiver wire for free.

Why is it so difficult for some people to admit Caserio's mistakes. Why?
.
Trade didn't work out
.
If the worst thing that happens to the Texans franchise is that Caserio took a chance on a talented guy using a 5th Rd pick and misses I'm ok with this.. it's not like he wasted a 3,Rd Rd pick.
.

Taking out the trash, how quickly this rebuild happens is directly related to a trade of Derrick.

I just erased a thought I had, 25 yes.
 
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TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
I think we as fans tend to overvalue draft capital period b/c there’s a disconnect in thinking that all these guys can and will develop and HC/GM’s know better; which is why most tend to prefer experienced guys over developmental guys. Most Guys taken in the 5-7 rounds that top out as special teamers are plentiful. They are largely the reasons why the average NFL career is only 3-4 years.

yes on occasion you’ll find a gem like Bobby Wagner or a Richard Sherman…but more often those guys turn out to be Treston Decouds and Reshad Clietts…you guys might be like “who?”………. and I’m like my point exactly.
This is true. Fact is for a lot of those late round picks the ones that do flash don’t start to “get it” until they are one of the few NFL players regardless of draft pick that make it to a second contract.

Look at all the players the team signed this offseason. There were lots of late round picks, even some earlier round selections that have “got it” enough to play in the NFL. Not necessarily as a star player but good enough to be on a gameday roster as a contributor.

Examples:

Terrance Mitchell- 7th round pick, 6 NFL teams, 2nd stint with Texans. Started “getting it” around 2017 when he settled into defensive rotation for KC which then earned him a 3 year contract with Cleveland. Now a starter with Houston he has effectively outplayed his draft status.

Kamu Grugier Hill - 6th round pick 2016, 4th NFL team. Has held on in the league due to his special teams ability. But this year appears to be “getting it” in a LB friendly scheme outplaying our high dollar LB Cunningham and imo will be entrenched as a starting member of the LBs as long as he’s healthy this season.

These players have proven they belong in the league and outplayed their draft status. But the team that drafted them did not get any benefit because it took time and development. Which the Texans skipped by letting other teams absorb those early year growing pains.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Everybody has his own philosophy.

Some poster had posted a link to a study on draft picks by round somewhere a few days ago.

I had seen that and also another study some time ago.
I agree that late picks have more values than many people think (including you).

I also agree that it could be used both ways.
In this day and age; however, those low draft picks have more values for several reasons: injuries, quick turn around of the NFL roster, salaries.

I think a good GM should strike a certain balance of the two approaches
First off…..most GM’s are fired before they could ever dig a hole this deep. Second, the GM’s who typically get the gig of getting out of the hole they inherited never get to stay long enough to finish the job.

If Caserio was a smart man, and I’m sure he is, he told McNair that year one was going to be a mulligan and a rebuild could begin in earnest come the 2022 off-season.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
These players have proven they belong in the league and outplayed their draft status.
I agree with this & to me, this is the way to rebuild. This is th core of your team, along with proven players already on the team. Reid, Blalock, Grenard, Omenehu, Tunsil, Cooks, Howard, Scharping, Akins... Brown.

Then add the young drafted players trying to prove they belong. Mills, Collins, Lopez, Wallow.

& next year we'll keep the ones that belong & add more, through the draft & FA.

I don't understand the thinking that wants you to basically field a college team mostly out of third day picks.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
This is true. Fact is for a lot of those late round picks the ones that do flash don’t start to “get it” until they are one of the few NFL players regardless of draft pick that make it to a second contract.

Look at all the players the team signed this offseason. There were lots of late round picks, even some earlier round selections that have “got it” enough to play in the NFL. Not necessarily as a star player but good enough to be on a gameday roster as a contributor.

Examples:

Terrance Mitchell- 7th round pick, 6 NFL teams, 2nd stint with Texans. Started “getting it” around 2017 when he settled into defensive rotation for KC which then earned him a 3 year contract with Cleveland. Now a starter with Houston he has effectively outplayed his draft status.

Kamu Grugier Hill - 6th round pick 2016, 4th NFL team. Has held on in the league due to his special teams ability. But this year appears to be “getting it” in a LB friendly scheme outplaying our high dollar LB Cunningham and imo will be entrenched as a starting member of the LBs as long as he’s healthy this season.

These players have proven they belong in the league and outplayed their draft status. But the team that drafted them did not get any benefit because it took time and development. Which the Texans skipped by letting other teams absorb those early year growing pains.
you add into this that you’re damn near as likely to find that diamond in the rough player as an undrafted street FA. Everyone’s familiar with Arian Foster’s story. James Harrison’s story. Just b/c a guy is in fact picked in the draft, doesn’t mean they’re any more likely to outperform a hungry undrafted guy. They’re all pretty much in the same boat after the 4th round.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
you add into this that you’re damn near as likely to find that diamond in the rough player as an undrafted street FA. Everyone’s familiar with Arian Foster’s story. James Harrison’s story. Just b/c a guy is in fact picked in the draft, doesn’t mean they’re any more likely to outperform a hungry undrafted guy. They’re all pretty much in the same boat after the 4th round.
And very rare that a UDFA starts playing at that level right off the bat either. I’ve discussed Foster and disappointment in Kubiak regime waiting until end of rookie season to play him over the likes of Chris Brown.

But James Harrison was also cut by the Steelers 4 times (!!!) spending 2 years on and off the practice squad… and did a year in NFL Europe and getting cut by Ravens before he finally “got it”.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
First off…..most GM’s are fired before they could ever dig a hole this deep. Second, the GM’s who typically get the gig of getting out of the hole they inherited never get to stay long enough to finish the job.

If Caserio was a smart man, and I’m sure he is, he told McNair that year one was going to be a mulligan and a rebuild could begin in earnest come the 2022 off-season.
The job starts day one as far as I'm concerned.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
If Caserio was a smart man, and I’m sure he is, he told McNair that year one was going to be a mulligan and a rebuild could begin in earnest come the 2022 off-season.
If Cal was a smart owner and I'm not sure he is, he would've told Nick you have until year 3 to get this team above .500 and the clock is ticking.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If Cal was a smart owner and I'm not sure he is, he would've told Nick you have until year 3 to get this team above .500 and the clock is ticking.
So you would consider Caserio is doing a good job, or at least on the right track?
 


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