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Texans sign Justin Britt Center

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So as suggested in the Nick Martin thread, the Texans have signed "a dude" for less than they were paying Martin to be a similar or worse player than Britt. Not meant to be 'exciting"
Wonder what they are thinking.

Center position is wide open. Even before Martin was released. Brit is step one in finding a replacement.

or

We can get similar play for a lot less money. Release Martin, sign Britt, problem solved.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
That grade is from ONE game Seattle-Rams week 5 of the 2019 season.

Also he was rated as “Backup” not “Replaceable” of course that’s just PFF’s rating who rated the line bad in contradiction to Football Outsiders, in that same article, who rated the line as:

Run Blocking: 24th (Up from 30th after Week 4)

Pass Blocking: 17th (Up from 26th after Week 4)
Soooooooooo.... Aaron Donald?
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Any thoughts on if he can be back in form?
@CloakNNNdagger posted a little bit about his injury, was hoping he would give more insight into how it would affect him more long term (hint hint CnD). From the little I know about it though an ACL rupture wouldn’t take away his base like Martin’s injuries did. Is it a gamble, sure every player is but he’s almost 2 years to recover so it’s not as big as some are making it out to be.
Despite his delayed return to play, I feel that his chances of returning to play is very good...........and his chances of returning to his pre-injury peak performance, can be just as good.

Return to play of NFL offensive linmen is relatively low, compared to many other positions. However, once NFL linemen, especially offensive linemen are able to return to play in a regular season game, prognosis for their value on the field is excellent.

********************************
From The Orthopedic Journal of Sports Medicine 2017 :

Data on NFL offensive and defensive linemen who sustained an ACL tear and underwent ACL reconstruction between 1980 and 2015 were analyzed. Players were identified through NFL team websites, publicly available injury reports, player profiles, and press releases. Demographics and mean in-game performance data preinjury and post–ACL reconstruction were recorded. A player was deemed to have returned to sport if he played in at least 1 NFL game after his ACL reconstruction. A healthy control group was selected to compare in-game performance data and was matched with the study group on several parameters.

Results:
Overall, 73 NFL linemen met the inclusion criteria; 47 (64.3%) returned to play after ACL reconstruction (62.5% of offensive linemen, 65.9% of defensive linemen). All offensive linemen successfully returned to play the season after injury. No difference existed in number of seasons, total number of games played, mean number of games played, or mean number of games started per season when offensive linemen who RTS (return to sport) after ACL reconstruction were compared with matched controls. Among defensive linemen who RTS, most returned the season after injury (88.9%). There was no difference between defensive linemen who RTS after ACL reconstruction and matched controls in any performance metrics as an average over the remainder of their career. However, NFL defensive linemen who tore their ACL played fewer total seasons than matched controls.

Conclusion:
Overall, 64.3% of NFL offensive and defensive linemen who undergo ACL reconstruction returned to play. Linemen who RTS do so at a high level, with no difference in in-game performance or career duration when compared with matched controls.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
First he’s not a backup he’s our starter. You are basing that on PFF who’s player evaluation has always been questionable at best even if you take them as gospel.

Second as I said most of the lower contracts are up this year, how about we wait to see what the other players sign for before we decide it’s to much money.

Oh and FYI Donald Penn was 36 when he signed that deal and had ended his previous season with an injury. Justin Britt is 29 and his last contract with Seattle was for 27 million so if he had played that out he would have pulled down 9 million a year. So you could say we are getting a player Seattle valued at 9 million for at most 5 million
PFF actually rated Britt quite highly in 2016 (98.3) and 2017 (98.7), but something happened to him such that he finished 29th in 2018 and 27th in 2019 with those low grades.
We know they're not biased against him.
Then came the ACL.

He wasn't cutting it as a RT, so the Seahawks tried him at G and then C where he settled.

So he was a pretty good center for a couple of years, followed by 2 very bad years and a terrible injury.
He tried out for the Chiefs but didn't get an offer.

Let's just rest on that for the moment and we'll see how the rest of Free Agency play out.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
PFF actually rated Britt quite highly in 2016 (98.3) and 2017 (98.7), but something happened to him such that he finished 29th in 2018 and 27th in 2019 with those low grades.
We know they're not biased against him.
Then came the ACL.

He wasn't cutting it as a RT, so the Seahawks tried him at G and then C where he settled.

So he was a pretty good center for a couple of years, followed by 2 very bad years and a terrible injury.
He tried out for the Chiefs but didn't get an offer.

Let's just rest on that for the moment and we'll see how the rest of Free Agency play out.
Interesting. He was durable for years, but Knowing how these guys are, I wonder how often he was playing thru injuries and dealing with that knee. I wonder if his knee started giving him problems in 2018 and he opted for the lesser of 2 evils surgery but in 2019 it just finally gave out on him.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
He wasn't cutting it as a RT, so the Seahawks tried him at G and then C where he settled.
He settled at center in 2016 where
PFF actually rated Britt quite highly in 2016 (98.3) and 2017 (98.7), but something happened to him such that he finished 29th in 2018 and 27th in 2019 with those low grades.
2018 the guards next to him changed neither making it through the season
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Interesting. He was durable for years, but Knowing how these guys are, I wonder how often he was playing thru injuries and dealing with that knee. I wonder if his knee started giving him problems in 2018 and he opted for the lesser of 2 evils surgery but in 2019 it just finally gave out on him.
He was fine... JR SWeezy, DJ Fluker and Ethan Pocic sucked
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I'm doing this on the fly on a cell phone, on the road, so this will be more like throwing stuffs out there:

.....

Currently, the 17th highest paid a center is Ben Jones, at $6.750M)yr.
In 2021, his salary will be $7.25M

The next guy at 18th is Austin Blythe, $3.9M.
He's an UFA and may get paid more this coming year (if there's no red flag; ie., injury).

Then there's Garrett Bradbury 19th, $3.320M.
His salary will be bumped to $3.5M and change in 2021.

David Andrew 20th is at $3.4M , graded 67.7, also an UFA, that might draw some interest and may get paid more also.

Ted Karras, $3M, 22nd (66.5, 65.3 PFF grade the last 2 years). His 65.3 grade last year was good for 17th.
An UFA, he may also get paid a little more this year.

Frank Ragnow 21st, $3.2M
His salary will be $3.748M in 2021. He had a good year, graded 80.3 and made AP All Pro 2nd team.

Billy Price, $3.2M, to be bumped to $3.7M.
Bad year. Grade 50.9, 41.8, 50.7
Looks like overpaid.

Austin Reiter $3.758M had a pretty decent year. 70.9 PFF grade, UFA.
Was a backup, extended by Chiefs in 2018 with a back loaded contract.
Looks like a good move by the Chiefs.
He's an UFA again.

Matt Skura 64.5, 50.3

Then you have a bunch of scrubs.


Nick Martin, 58.3, 65.5, 56.1 PFF Grades the last 3 years.
So he's been consistently graded higher than Price.

.........
Roughly 23 guys, with those near the bottom arguably/maybe better than Nick Martin.

Those UFAs should be looked at and pursued before guaranteeing the money to Justin Britt is what I'm thinking.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Interesting. He was durable for years, but Knowing how these guys are, I wonder how often he was playing thru injuries and dealing with that knee. I wonder if his knee started giving him problems in 2018 and he opted for the lesser of 2 evils surgery but in 2019 it just finally gave out on him.
2012, college.
Missed the last 3-1/2 games due to a knee injury that required surgery.

2015 Missed a playoff game due to a knee injury.

2016
Missed 1 game due to an ankle injury, but was on the injury report for a few weeks.

2017
Was on the injury report for an ankle injury for at least 3 weeks.

2018
Reported back problem during PS.
Suffered a shoulder injury in a PS game Sep 17.
Was on the injury report through Sep 28.
Those were the only things I saw that could have affected his play that year.

2019
The last knee injury.
.....

Like you, I'm guessing just all the injuries accumulating over a period of time.
(There could be some minor stuffs or something else that I had missed).
 

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
I'm doing this on the fly on a cell phone, on the road, so this will be more like throwing stuffs out there:

.....

Currently, the 17th highest paid a center is Ben Jones, at $6.750M)yr.
In 2021, his salary will be $7.25M

The next guy at 18th is Austin Blythe, $3.9M.
He's an UFA and may get paid more this coming year (if there's no red flag; ie., injury).

Then there's Garrett Bradbury 19th, $3.320M.
His salary will be bumped to $3.5M and change in 2021.

David Andrew 20th is at $3.4M , graded 67.7, also an UFA, that might draw some interest and may get paid more also.

Ted Karras, $3M, 22nd (66.5, 65.3 PFF grade the last 2 years). His 65.3 grade last year was good for 17th.
An UFA, he may also get paid a little more this year.

Frank Ragnow 21st, $3.2M
His salary will be $3.748M in 2021. He had a good year, graded 80.3 and made AP All Pro 2nd team.

Billy Price, $3.2M, to be bumped to $3.7M.
Bad year. Grade 50.9, 41.8, 50.7
Looks like overpaid.

Austin Reiter $3.758M had a pretty decent year. 70.9 PFF grade, UFA.
Was a backup, extended by Chiefs in 2018 with a back loaded contract.
Looks like a good move by the Chiefs.
He's an UFA again.

Matt Skura 64.5, 50.3

Then you have a bunch of scrubs.


Nick Martin, 58.3, 65.5, 56.1 PFF Grades the last 3 years.
So he's been consistently graded higher than Price.

.........
Roughly 23 guys, with those near the bottom arguably/maybe better than Nick Martin.

Those UFAs should be looked at and pursued before guaranteeing the money to Justin Britt is what I'm thinking.
What I am reading from this that the Texans signed a below mid-level center for a below mid-level price (no matter if he gets his bonus or not).

So they got a deal they like at Lowe's scratch and dent, but might have been able to get a better deal if they used some extra time and money driving around town all of the scratch and dent and outlet places.

Nevermind that they have at least 20 other things to get done before Labor Day, let's make sure get the absolute perfect deal on this one item.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
What I am reading from this that the Texans signed a below mid-level center for a below mid-level price (no matter if he gets his bonus or not).

So they got a deal they like at Lowe's scratch and dent, but might have been able to get a better deal if they used some extra time and money driving around town all of the scratch and dent and outlet places.

Nevermind that they have at least 20 other things to get done before Labor Day, let's make sure got the absolute perfect deal on this one item.
Yeeah, but this $30-M GM is supposed to be better than good.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Yeeah, but this $30-M GM is supposed to be better than good.
I think that signing a pro bowl caliber center (when he has NFL caliber guards) next to him for only $3M is pretty good. I mean the two years you stated he played at a high level (98.3 & 98.7) he had Luke Joeckel and Oday Aboushi next to him... it went downhill when the guards were not even backup level
 

welsh texan

All Pro
I'm doing this on the fly on a cell phone, on the road, so this will be more like throwing stuffs out there:

.....

Currently, the 17th highest paid a center is Ben Jones, at $6.750M)yr.
In 2021, his salary will be $7.25M

The next guy at 18th is Austin Blythe, $3.9M.
He's an UFA and may get paid more this coming year (if there's no red flag; ie., injury).

Then there's Garrett Bradbury 19th, $3.320M.
His salary will be bumped to $3.5M and change in 2021.

David Andrew 20th is at $3.4M , graded 67.7, also an UFA, that might draw some interest and may get paid more also.

Ted Karras, $3M, 22nd (66.5, 65.3 PFF grade the last 2 years). His 65.3 grade last year was good for 17th.
An UFA, he may also get paid a little more this year.

Frank Ragnow 21st, $3.2M
His salary will be $3.748M in 2021. He had a good year, graded 80.3 and made AP All Pro 2nd team.

Billy Price, $3.2M, to be bumped to $3.7M.
Bad year. Grade 50.9, 41.8, 50.7
Looks like overpaid.

Austin Reiter $3.758M had a pretty decent year. 70.9 PFF grade, UFA.
Was a backup, extended by Chiefs in 2018 with a back loaded contract.
Looks like a good move by the Chiefs.
He's an UFA again.

Matt Skura 64.5, 50.3

Then you have a bunch of scrubs.


Nick Martin, 58.3, 65.5, 56.1 PFF Grades the last 3 years.
So he's been consistently graded higher than Price.

.........
Roughly 23 guys, with those near the bottom arguably/maybe better than Nick Martin.

Those UFAs should be looked at and pursued before guaranteeing the money to Justin Britt is what I'm thinking.
What would you think about singing a 64.9 PFF rated Center to a $10 million per year contract?

How would a team that did that get along?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
What would you think about singing a 64.9 PFF rated Center to a $10 million per year contract?

How would a team that did that get along?
My thought on the situation was known. One of the ten thousands reasons I said O'Brien needed to be fired for.

It has nothing to do with this situation, except for one thing: It should also serve to evaluate this 30-M GM. He has to be held accountable.
As mentioned in another thread, this is a way of keeping count.
It's still too early to come to a final judgement.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I think that signing a pro bowl caliber center (when he has NFL caliber guards) next to him for only $3M is pretty good. I mean the two years you stated he played at a high level (98.3 & 98.7) he had Luke Joeckel and Oday Aboushi next to him... it went downhill when the guards were not even backup level
You meant pro-bowl alternate, healthy, over 3 years ago.

Martin didn't have any guard worth a damn playing next to him either.

Besides, the grades were on individual blocks.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I think that signing a pro bowl caliber center (when he has NFL caliber guards) next to him for only $3M is pretty good. I mean the two years you stated he played at a high level (98.3 & 98.7) he had Luke Joeckel and Oday Aboushi next to him... it went downhill when the guards were not even backup level
I dare you to look up the history of all players in the NFL that was graded 27th or worse two years in a row, out of the league for another year, with a similar injury history, that came back and play at a level that justifies paying him low 2nd tier starting money.
Not only that, the money was guarantee even before he played a single snap.
 
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welsh texan

All Pro
My thought on the situation was known. One of the ten thousands reasons I said O'Brien needed to be fired for.

It has nothing to do with this situation, except for one thing: It should also serve to evaluate this 30-M GM. He has to be held accountable.
As mentioned in another thread, this is a way of keeping count.
It's still too early to come to a final judgement.
Actually, 76. The example of a $10 million per year Center with a PFF rating of 64.9 refers to Ryan Jensen of the Bucs last year, who won the super bowl.

All the deep dive analysis you want from PFF doesn’t have any baring on the success of the team as a whole.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Actually, 76. The example of a $10 million per year Center with a PFF rating of 64.9 refers to Ryan Jensen of the Bucs last year, who won the super bowl.

All the deep dive analysis you want from PFF doesn’t have any baring on the success of the team as a whole.
I still don't understand your point.

Jensen obviously played well to earn that contract in 2018.

And he had played well for the most part to justify it.

In 2019 he graded among the very top, again.


So he had a down year last year, but none of this is comparable to the Britt's situation.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
And here's the extent of Britt's "versatility":


So much for versatility.
He couldn't cut it at tackle nor guard so Center was the last chance for him.

It's quite possible for the offense to scheme to help a center either in pass block or run block.
It's quite possible that besides his playing well that he was receiving much help those two years when he was graded highly.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
And here's the extent of Britt's "versatility":


So much for versatility.
He couldn't cut it at tackle nor guard so Center was the last chance for him.

It's quite possible for the offense to scheme to help a center either in pass block or run block.
It's quite possible that besides his playing well that he was receiving much help those two years when he was graded highly.
Tell you what, when you can point to any point in Martin's career here when he looked as good as Britt did & was graded high at any aspect of his position like Britt was in run blocking, pass blocking, help...no help....then you have an opening gambit for a legit convo. Until then, this is just more of you fooling yourself.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
Tell you what, when you can point to any point in Martin's career here when he looked as good as Britt did & was graded high at any aspect of his position like Britt was in run blocking, pass blocking, help...no help....then you have an opening gambit for a legit convo. Until then, this is just more of you fooling yourself.
But we're not talking about the Britt of 3-4 years ago.

Look at DJ as an example; and he didn't even have that bad of an injury history.

My point: 3M plus guaranteed money for such a player is a big risk; no matter how you slice it.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
But we're not talking about the Britt of 3-4 years ago.

Look at DJ as an example; and he didn't even have that bad of an injury history.

My point: 3M plus guaranteed money for such a player is a big risk; no matter how you slice it.
I hear you man, I just think that you’re overlooking the entirety of the move itself. Maybe he could’ve paid a million less to get someone else that could give us what Britt will...but moving on from Martin and paying his proposed replacement (who was last seen and graded out as playing better than him) much less was a net positive for the team ...no matter which way you look at it.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I hear you man, I just think that you’re overlooking the entirety of the move itself. Maybe he could’ve paid a million less to get someone else that could give us what Britt will...but moving on from Martin and paying his proposed replacement (who was last seen and graded out as playing better than him) much less was a net positive for the team ...no matter which way you look at it.
Last seen: 2018 and 2019, he graded worse than Martin.
And that's before the last injury.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I hear you man, I just think that you’re overlooking the entirety of the move itself. Maybe he could’ve paid a million less to get someone else that could give us what Britt will...but moving on from Martin and paying his proposed replacement (who was last seen and graded out as playing better than him) much less was a net positive for the team ...no matter which way you look at it.
There are at least 3 UFAs on that list that are worth exploring.
They may require about $4M per or more, but they're healthy.
I'll keep tab of them and we'll revisit this later, maybe half way through the season or something.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
There are at least 3 UFAs on that list that are worth exploring.
They may require about $4M per or more, but they're healthy.
I'll keep tab of them and we'll revisit this later, maybe half way through the season or something.
You don't know if they weren't looked at. Furthermore, its a long way from "exploring" those guys to locking them down under a similar or better deal. Like Britt they're on the market for a reason. At least we know what Britt was out there for. So I wouldn't be to keen on giving these guys you're talking about 4 mil or more(who are all in the same FA pool as Britt is) just b/c they're healthy. Martin was healthy all last year & was also hot garbage too.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
You don't know if they weren't looked at. Furthermore, its a long way from "exploring" those guys to locking them down under a similar or better deal. Like Britt they're on the market for a reason. At least we know what Britt was out there for. So I wouldn't be to keen on giving these guys you're talking about 4 mil or more(who are all in the same FA pool as Britt is) just b/c they're healthy. Martin was healthy all last year & was also hot garbage too.
No, I had looked at them guys and they're not in the same boat as Britt.
That was why I expect 3 to 6 of those guys to be paid higher than $3.5M as UDFA.
Let's wait to see how the rest of Free Agency unfold and we'll revisit this thread.
 


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