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Texans sign FB Lawrence Vickers

Trap_Star said:
south_park_stan.jpg
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I'm still looking for the hidden camera in my office...
 
michaelm said:
Definitely agreed.
With Vonta, I never had a lack of confidence with his ball handling ability, or feared that he was going to fumble (Jacoby), but I knew he was going to run in a straight line until the first tackler made contact.
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I remember a few training camps back vonta caught a couple passes out of the backfield and dunta was just putting a shoulder into him and knocking him down.

Vonta was a good blocker but he was worse than David Anderson when it came to making a play with the ball in his hands.

I thought that he would be able to at least truck some ppl, but I never saw it.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
The money would have to be right, and only after the team addressed certain other needs first (more depth at ILB, quality depth at G).

I'm not convinced that WR#2 is as mcuh of a need as others on the board, and I'm not convinced any of the WRs still on the market would be a good insurance policy for AJ.
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Briesel, Caldwell, Shelley smith (who was running with the first team) are all in play at the guard spot opposite wade smith. Then they brought back studdard.

I doubt they are worrying about depth at guard.
 
Rey said:
He didn't want to take a pay cut in Seattle. I don't think we'd have the money to sign him.
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This, and the Bears seem interested.

We don't need another starter, just somebody able to spell Ryans and Cushing and not look a total disaster if he needs to play more then that.

Kirk Morrison would be ideal in my opinion.
 
Rey said:
Briesel, Caldwell, Shelley smith (who was running with the first team) are all in play at the guard spot opposite wade smith. Then they brought back studdard.

I doubt they are worrying about depth at guard.
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I know and they may feel that way. I don't. I worry about the quality of depth at all the interior line spots. Just my opinion.
 
vupac1 said:
and i think he's pretty washed up anyways
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He's had some major knee surgeries but he could still be decent. Wants too much money though.

SOmebody please tell me how Daryl Sharpton has looked out there. I really liked what I saw of him last year as a rookie but I have yet to hear a peep about him.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
A criticism that I had with Vonta is that once he caught the ball and took a couple of steps, he sure seemed to go down quickly and easily. Vickers is quicker/faster and hopefully can gain greater yardage before going down.
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I've thought the same. If you go and look at some of Vicker's receiving TDs, they are on play action roll outs and Vickers has very little room to make the catch. Vonta wouldn't be able to make those catches.
 
b0ng said:
He could very well be waiting for injuries to happen around TC's before he decides to lowball himself back to the Chargers and being behind VJax and Gates in terms of receiving options.

Either way, with the Vickers signing and Smith saying we are already over the cap, I doubt a Floyd, Edwards, or any name WR is going to be signing with us this season.
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I think that once we resigned JJ, signing some other WR as a potential upgrade went out the window then.
 
Texecutioner said:
I think that once we resigned JJ, signing some other WR as a potential upgrade went out the window then.
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I wish you were wrong about that but I'm pretty sure you're right.

But... I've got high hopes for the UDFA class of WRs we picked up. Could be a couple of diamonds in there.
 
What's wrong with bringing Bentley back? He ain't the best, but he's filled in decently before. I think he'd fit in well as an ILB in a 3-4
 
I'm also pumped up about the Vickers signing, and that is pennies on the dollar compared to what Leach signed for so it's good value as well.

Vickers isn't the blocker Vonta is, I mean there were time I swear Vonta was on the FBI most wanted list for murdering LB's but....vickers is in the converstation in that next group, and I don't think we'll miss a beat.

Don't get me wrong, Vonta is all-pro, but if we can just be "good" there, then that is plenty good enough. I don't believe in Casey as a traditional blocking FB, but I would like to see him work in as an H-back Frank Wycheck type of player.

I also think Vickers could be at least slightly better in the pass catching game, as I think he has a bit more speed. He isn't going to carry the ball anymore than Vonta, which basically means zero or next to zero.

Anyone know what kind of Special Teamer this guy is? Is he a valuable addition on ST as well?
 
Porky said:
I'm also pumped up about the Vickers signing, and that is pennies on the dollar compared to what Leach signed for so it's good value as well.

Vickers isn't the blocker Vonta is, I mean there were time I swear Vonta was on the FBI most wanted list for murdering LB's but....vickers is in the converstation in that next group, and I don't think we'll miss a beat.

Don't get me wrong, Vonta is all-pro, but if we can just be "good" there, then that is plenty good enough. I don't believe in Casey as a traditional blocking FB, but I would like to see him work in as an H-back Frank Wycheck type of player.

I also think Vickers could be at least slightly better in the pass catching game, as I think he has a bit more speed. He isn't going to carry the ball anymore than Vonta, which basically means zero or next to zero.

Anyone know what kind of Special Teamer this guy is? Is he a valuable addition on ST as well?
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Porky said:
It's all lip service to me. Just a PR move to keep the turnstiles moving and the beer selling another year. I tend to be one that says don't tell me what your going to do, show me what you are going to do. Seeing is believing.

He can say how much he wants to win - but he hasn't shown it. And now we let Leach go, another move a loser makes just at a time when we were gaining momentum this offseason. That is showing me that he doesn't want to win. We needed to keep Leach and 3 yrs at 11 mil is reasonable for an all-pro who helped turn a UDFA into the league's top RB a yr ago. You don't replace a guy like that with someone off the street.

The wool gets pulled over our eyes again, but some of us understand this man's losing mentality.
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You over Leach being gone yet?
 
Porky said:
I'm also pumped up about the Vickers signing, and that is pennies on the dollar compared to what Leach signed for so it's good value as well.

Vickers isn't the blocker Vonta is, I mean there were time I swear Vonta was on the FBI most wanted list for murdering LB's but....vickers is in the converstation in that next group, and I don't think we'll miss a beat.

Don't get me wrong, Vonta is all-pro, but if we can just be "good" there, then that is plenty good enough. I don't believe in Casey as a traditional blocking FB, but I would like to see him work in as an H-back Frank Wycheck type of player.

I also think Vickers could be at least slightly better in the pass catching game, as I think he has a bit more speed. He isn't going to carry the ball anymore than Vonta, which basically means zero or next to zero.

Anyone know what kind of Special Teamer this guy is? Is he a valuable addition on ST as well?
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Potayto, Potahto...

I see it as Leach was an All-World punishing lead blocker, while Vickers can be an All-Pro complete FB...

Where Leach would hit a LB and make him poo and piss himself... Vickers will only be able to knock the snot outta them

But when you compare the difference in salaries in relation to the difference in productivity.. the value is just a no-brainer
 
michaelm said:
I might have misunderstood, but I think he was referring to Bentley.
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Yes

Bentley should stay he's the best ST'er on the team. They will add depth later on when the last cuts are made. Unless somebody is willing to sign as a FA on the Texans terms.

Fans completely undervalue ST's. For this reason Bentley stays.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yes

Bentley should stay he's the best ST'er on the team. They will add depth later on when the last cuts are made. Unless somebody is willing to sign as a FA on the Texans terms.

Fans completely undervalue ST's. For this reason Bentley stays.
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I dont think Bentley is on the team.

I thought they should have kept him, but last year he looked liked he had gained too much weight to me. He wasn't a factor on special teams either.

I really believe they want to go with younger, faster, more athletic guys in the lb corps. Bentley doesn't fit that bill.

The udfa's that we brought in have a chance to stick IMO.
 
b0ng said:
You over Leach being gone yet?
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WEll, everything being equal of course I take Leach. But that's a 2.5 million savings per year off Leach. It's kind of like having to trade in your Lexus LS460, but you trade it in for a nice Buick (or insert whatever nice non-luxury car here).

Leach was a Lexus, but I'm happy with the Buick for the savings. I was worried they were going to pretend that Casey is a legit FB and not go after anyone else. In fact, I am worried what I just read on the Chron site about Casey being in the lead for the starters job over Vickers. No way in hell will that happen unless they plan on utilizing an H-Back in favor of a traditional FB.
 
gary said:
I don't know about the current cap but it would be nice to have another good receiver on this team.
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Once again (I brought this up in another thread too) no one here is looking at Steve Smith (Gaints) as a #2, why is that?? I think for a one year deal he'd be worth it and it would allow the newbees to get some time and another successful WR to learn from.

I'm good with Walters but I'm still not convinced that JJ can hack it as a #2 WR.
 
I don't see anyone on the current Texans roster with #47, so Vickers can keep that number if he wants to as far as I can tell.
 
Porky said:
WEll, everything being equal of course I take Leach. But that's a 2.5 million savings per year off Leach. It's kind of like having to trade in your Lexus LS460, but you trade it in for a nice Buick (or insert whatever nice non-luxury car here).

Leach was a Lexus, but I'm happy with the Buick for the savings. I was worried they were going to pretend that Casey is a legit FB and not go after anyone else. In fact, I am worried what I just read on the Chron site about Casey being in the lead for the starters job over Vickers. No way in hell will that happen unless they plan on utilizing an H-Back in favor of a traditional FB.
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The Texans might say that, but Vickers couldn't practice with us anyway right now so of course Casey is in the lead :P

Quote from Vickers from june, very interesting stuff:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/06/fullback_lawrence_vickers_bewi.html


“He said he was known as a versatile fullback as a rookie in 2006 coming out of Colorado, which ran an offense copied from Mike Shanahan’s West Coast system with the Denver Broncos at the time.

Vickers had more than 500 yards rushing and receiving in his career at Colorado.

“I am a West Coast fullback. That’s what they don’t understand,” he said.

He said he became typecast as a “knockout fullback” the past two years because that’s how he earned playing time.

“I was on a team where they don’t even use a fullback,” he said of the Browns’ offense under former coach Eric Mangini."
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EDIT: Colorado connection status = Green light GO GO GO GO GO
 
Good. I love insurance going into a season. If Casey doesn't cut it, in comes Vickers w/ experience and attitude..

Really wish we looked into A. Franklin. If he would of taken a one year deal, i would of felt even better about the defense.
 
I still say we should have gotten a backup QB for 1.5 mil and spent Leinart's money on Leach. I think a starting FB is going to be involved more often than a second string QB.
 
Dan B. said:
I still say we should have gotten a backup QB for 1.5 mil and spent Leinart's money on Leach. I think a starting FB is going to be involved more often than a second string QB.
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Many people could make the argument that the backup QB is far more important than the starting FB.
 
Dan B. said:
I still say we should have gotten a backup QB for 1.5 mil and spent Leinart's money on Leach. I think a starting FB is going to be involved more often than a second string QB.
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Don't think that is the concern...more like what are options if either QB or FB goes down? Even with Leinert, we have little hope. If FB goes we have multi options.
 
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Allstar said:
Many people could make the argument that the backup QB is far more important than the starting FB.
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Many others could make the argument that an all pro starter is far more important than a guy that didn't play a single down last year. The beef on Leach's value is that he only saw action in like 1/3 of our offensive plays. That still beats Matt's 0% of our offensive plays, doesn't it? What did Leinart do last year, or in his career, to merit 3.5 mill a year? It's Dan-O all over again. Pay a guy 3 million to sit on the bench. Stupid.

There were two Texans last year that I would take without hesitation over anyone in the league at their position -- AJ and Leach. You don't let the best guy at their position walk away.
 
Dan B. said:
Many others could make the argument that an all pro starter is far more important than a guy that didn't play a single down last year. The beef on Leach's value is that he only saw action in like 1/3 of our offensive plays. That still beats Matt's 0% of our offensive plays, doesn't it? What did Leinart do last year, or in his career, to merit 3.5 mill a year? It's Dan-O all over again. Pay a guy 3 million to sit on the bench. Stupid.

There were two Texans last year that I would take without hesitation over anyone in the league at their position -- AJ and Leach. You don't let the best guy at their position walk away.
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Unless of course he plays one of the least valuable positions on an NFL roster. There is just a slight difference between being the best WR in the NFL and being the best FB.
 
Allstar said:
Many people could make the argument that the backup QB is far more important than the starting FB.
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On just about any team in the NFL , if your starting QB goes down , your season is toast.

This years Texans team is no different. Hell they may as well have saved the $$ on Leinart and gone with Yates as the #2 resigning Leach. The results would be no different than with Leinart backing up Schaub.

Schaub goes down for an extended period of time - Season Done.
 
Dan B. said:
Many others could make the argument that an all pro starter is far more important than a guy that didn't play a single down last year. The beef on Leach's value is that he only saw action in like 1/3 of our offensive plays. That still beats Matt's 0% of our offensive plays, doesn't it? What did Leinart do last year, or in his career, to merit 3.5 mill a year? It's Dan-O all over again. Pay a guy 3 million to sit on the bench. Stupid.

There were two Texans last year that I would take without hesitation over anyone in the league at their position -- AJ and Leach. You don't let the best guy at their position walk away.
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"What he said! That's the dayum truth!" signed Nnamdi Asomugha
 
You do let him walk when he commands a 3 year $11 Million contract and you go and sign a guy that will be just as good for 2 years $3 Million.

I think as fans we're putting Leach up on a pedestal. Leach was a great blocker... but I think most fans are hyping Leach up because he's a PUNISHING blocker. Maybe Vickers won't completey destroy a LB like Leach would, but it doesn't mean he'll be any less effective.

I like Leach just as much as the next guy, he was one of my favorites but I'm not about to paint him into some untouchable figure.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
You do let him walk when he commands a 3 year $11 Million contract and you go and sign a guy that will be just as good for 2 years $3 Million.

I think as fans we're putting Leach up on a pedestal. Leach was a great blocker... but I think most fans are hyping Leach up because he's a PUNISHING blocker. Maybe Vickers won't completey destroy a LB like Leach would, but it doesn't mean he'll be any less effective.

I like Leach just as much as the next guy, he was one of my favorites but I'm not about to paint him into some untouchable figure.
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Yep, a block to move an obstacle out of the play is just as effective as a pancake block. I just like to see the latter.
 
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