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Texans on ESPN right now talking about Bush
- Thread starter gtexan02
- Start date
Erratic Assassin
Rookie
gpshafer_1976 said:
Salisbury is a former male cheerleader. What the hell does he know?
We have needs and running back isn't one of them. We haven't addressed those needs in 4 years, and now we're supposed to make it 5 years? At what point will we finally address our needs? Looks like never.
How many future hall of famers do the Patriots have on their team? Not many, they just have a ton of above average players. I'm okay with drafting Bush, only if we turn around a trade him to a team that believes he is "once-in-40-years type of player". One of those Cowboys-Vikings: Hershel Walker for 12 players type trades. THAT WOULD ROCK!
Assuming of course that Casserly doesn't get to decide how we use those picks. He'd probably piss away 3 of those picks for a shot at the next Jason Babin.
sakebomb
Veteran
It would be great to have a weapon like Bush but that doesn't equal wins. Look at Arizona or St. Louis. They have weapons on offense but they still don't win enough games. I want wins. I don't care how ugly they are and the best way for us to get wins is to be able to stop someone on defense when it counts. We have a lot of holes but the turn around can start next year. Bring in a new staff with new schemes for both sides of the ball. Protect the QB. Find some defensive players that can strike the fear of God in the opponents. 
Here's to next season.
Here's to next season.
Erratic Assassin
Rookie
sakebomb said:
How many superbowl rings does did Barry Sanders bring Detroit? He was certainly a once in every 40 years player.
It makes no sense to hamstring the franchise with the outrageous salary and signing bonus Reggie Bush will command. I've never seen so much hype in all my life.
This isn't basketball where 1 player equals one-fifth of your team.
dat_boy_yec
Rookie
The holes we need to fill can be addressed in many ways free agency 2nd and other rounds of the draft trades what not, but you can only draft one Reggie Bush. That our holes arent being filled, hardly I get the feeling that coaching and front office changes are coming and those are our biggest holes, once those are filled I expect immediate improvement, and a better opportunity to evaluate our players. I know its been posted on here before the linemen we got through trades or fa played well on other teams, but when they got to Houston they started sucking, wtf that dont make sense to me. I think we could have won some games this season if not for playcalling. The conservative play againts the Rams in the second half, the blitz againts Baltimore. Those are mistakes on the football field, it makes me wonder if they cant do anything right in the game how much are they doing right in practice. The biggest prob. I see with the line isnt talent but mental errors. Milford Brown is a great example when he helps the center instead of picking up blitzes. These kinda mistakes have been happening all season false starts illegal formations. Thats the coaching because if somebody consistently ****s up you pull them. On defense look at Shante Orr and DaShaun Polk those two guys have been playing a huge part in our improving defense but if Wong and Babin hadnt been hurt would the coaches have given these guys opportunities. I think we should get Bush and see the improvement next yr. we have talent at qb, we have a passing game, and a running game, our line can run block and pass block(somewhat) but these aspects arent refined the way they should be by the coaches. If I were a line coach I would drill the o-line on pass blocking all day until they got it right and well Im getting off the subject. Everyone says we need more talented ppl but I think we need coaching to see what we really need, you always take a risk in the draft I think it would be wisest to take that risk on the player that has the most potential (Bush) and hope for the best.
MorKnolle
All Pro
The holes we need to fill, especially OL, will be filled much better in the draft than in free agency, and not a lot of starting-quality OL, especially a future LT, will fall past the 1st round, not to mention by trading off the #1 pick (assuming we get it, there are three games left in the season) we save ourselves from having to pay out a $50+ million contract to a single player and can add 2-4 more high 2nd and 3rd round picks this year and a 1st or 2nd round pick next year. We can add an additional 3-6 immediate starters (that we would otherwise not be able to get) over the next two drafts by trading away the pick for Bush, and likely pay all of them combined less than what we'd have to pay Bush.
TheOgre
All Pro
Sarg01 said:
That OT they took in 2002 was Levi Jones. It took him 2-3 years, but he is moving up the ranks of the starting LT's in the league. He is a key part of the foundation in place for Palmer to excel. We need our foundation for Carr (or whoever our QB will be) to prosper.
TexanAlmighty
Waterboy
Barry Sanders didn't get a ring because they didn't know how to build a team around him. Emmitt Smith won 3 rings. They had the big 3. With Bush we will have our big 3. Bush will make everyone around him better. Carr will definitely benefit from having Bush, from picking up the blitz and from breaking from the line of scrimmage quicker than DD. He will not be caught from behind either. We can pick up OL later in the draft and through FA. Who knows what a different scheme would do also. You have to draft Reggie Bush. You cannot pass on his talent.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
TexanAlmighty said:
Please mail me your crystal ball. Or better yet look back into it and you will see that the best running back prospect currently in the NCAA is at OU.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
You fill holes with rd 2-7 plus FA. You take impact players if available if you're picking #1 - #12ish in rd 1. In all those crappy years leading up to the Cowboys reign of the 90's, they never once took an OL in the 1st. As a matter of fact the year they drafted Irving, they didn't even take an OL until the 3rd 4th 7th rds. The year after that, they drafted Aikman then Moose then an OL. After that draft, they gave up next years 1st (which wound up being the #1 overall) in the Supp Draft for a QB. The following Draft they they found themselves back in the 1st with the 17th overall and too Emmit, they didn't even draft an OL that draft. The draft after that they took DT R. Maryland 1st overall then later on in the 1st rd. they drafted WR A. Harper.
Then after all that the next 6 seasons had 10 or more wins per season with 3 rings.
Hmmm. Impact players with the 1st rd. Fill holes with the rest plus FA.
Now lets look at teams that took OL high in the 1st:
Rams/Pace - 1 ring, 1 SB loss, another playoff or 2
Jags/Boselli - 2 AFC Champ losses with a few other playoff appearances
Ravens/Ogden - 1 ring that was won on the wings of the Lewis led D
Just to name a few.
Then after all that the next 6 seasons had 10 or more wins per season with 3 rings.
Hmmm. Impact players with the 1st rd. Fill holes with the rest plus FA.
Now lets look at teams that took OL high in the 1st:
Rams/Pace - 1 ring, 1 SB loss, another playoff or 2
Jags/Boselli - 2 AFC Champ losses with a few other playoff appearances
Ravens/Ogden - 1 ring that was won on the wings of the Lewis led D
Just to name a few.
MorKnolle
All Pro
TexanAlmighty said:
Emmitt won three rings because the Cowboys built a stellar defense and one of the best OLine in history around him, and they had good offensive weapons too. The Cowboys drafted Michael Irvin in the first round in 1988, Troy Aikman in 1989, and Emmitt Smith in 1990. They didn't decide a couple years later that Emmitt wasn't fast enough so they were going to upgrade RBs for a much higher priced guy that was a better athlete but probably a less complete overall RB. They already had a solid team built around their players and they didn't waste money and a high draft pick for a slight upgrade at a single position. Emmitt Smith and Domanick Davis are very similar RB. Both are 5-9 (I think Davis is more realistically 5-7 or so) 215-220 lbs. not elite straight-line speed, but pretty fast, quick side-to-side, a good receiver out of the backfield, and smart runners who recognize the whole and get there. Emmitt was probably a better blocker (Davis can improve that and I don't remember Emmitt in his first couple seasons so I can't compare that Emmitt to Domanick, and if you think Bush is going to block blitzing LBs any better than Davis then I'd say you're crazy) and Emmitt was a little more durable, but most of Davis' nagging injuries come from him having to get the ball and get hit 30-35 times a game. I'll bet Davis has as many 40+ yard runs as Emmitt did in his first three years, but the Cowboys recognized that they had a solid back and weren't going to give him up for a newer, flashier model. They didn't give up on Emmitt to go get Marshall Faulk after Emmitt had been around for a few years. Don't compare Bush to Emmitt Smith, he compares much, much better to Domanick Davis. We already have our big 3 in Carr, Davis, and AJ. Carr and Davis compare pretty well to Aikman and Emmitt at that age, and Carr is more athletic than Aikman ever was. AJ is a much better athlete than Irvin ever was. The difference between our team and the Cowboys of the 90s is the OLine and the defense, so if you want to look like those Cowboys teams then let's improve on our weaknesses, and the part of the team that really wins championships without receiving the same recognition for it.
TexanAlmighty
Waterboy
Kaiser Toro said:
No lie there, he is special also. Is he coming out or staying?
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Big B Texan Fan said:
And you call yourself a Bush supporter? The reason why the Cowboys did that was that they traded a coveted RB for many picks. If Bush is of value as you think he is then we could trade for multiple picks and find those nuggets in the draft.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
TexanAlmighty said:
If he came out, sign me up for taking AP at #1.
MorKnolle
All Pro
Kaiser Toro said:
Excellent observation, and the Cowboys didn't give up on Emmitt after a few years and go draft Marshall Faulk or anyone else that was "amazing and a home run threat".
Emmitt wasn't capable of breaking a 70 TD every time he touched the ball, so obviously he wasn't fast enough and should have also been traded for a real home run threat.
awtysst
Draft Guru
tulexan said:
I dont think we can be stuck. Think about this:
If we are 8 who could be gone: Bush, Leinart, Winston, DBrick, Kiwanuka, Williams, Hawk, De Angelo Williams. These are reasonable picks in the top 8. So what could we do? We could look at Micahel Huff, Chad Greenway, Rod Wright trade down for Jon Scot, etc. I would consider trading for a pick in NEXT year's first as well. That is a reasonable strategy.
tulexan
Hall of Fame
awtysst said:
Of course there will be players that we could pick, but our biggest need is at OT. If we trade down and both Winston and Ferguson are gone in addition to AJ Hawk and some of the elite DE's then we might as well just stayed at #1 and pick Reggie Bush and then take one of the second tier OT's with the 33rd pick.
That and not getting equal value are my major worries about trading down.
MorKnolle
All Pro
tulexan said:
That is always a danger of trading down but they can make sure they don't trade down too far. Right now Ferguson seems to have the most hype of the OL in the draft and could likely go somewhere from 4-7 or so, while Winston is getting a little less attention and could likely go from 5-11 or so. To make sure we get one of them (preferably Winston IMO) we can stop trading down at like #6. Again, all of that depends on the final order of the draft, where teams are at that would be willing to trade up, and which teams and what their needs are that will end up being in front of us. There are so many different things that can happen before the draft and I don't want to get into writing up a round one mock draft or anything this early, but you can make sure that you'll still be in the running for one of the OT. We have previously done a thread on the teams that should be in the top 9 in the draft and their needs, we have done a thread on the Texans players and their contract situations, and a thread on free agents that will be available this offseason. After the regular season is over and the draft order is set, at least for the non-playoff teams, cadahnic, coach c and I will put the information from those threads together and create a list of the draft order, those teams primary needs, free agents that will be available to fill various teams' needs, and then possible draft pick trade scenarios, so stay tuned and look for that in a couple weeks. I doubt we'll do any kind of partial mock with specific players drafted until after the combine, but in a couple weeks we'll go a lot more in depth at the realistic trade options and everything like that so hopefully that will help calm some of your worries. Until then just keep an open mind and consider some of the possible options in front of us, some of us are trying to post somewhat objective scenarios so people can see what options are available and make up their own minds.
TexanAlmighty
Waterboy
MorKnolle said:
Why can't we draft Bush and build a stellar offensive line/defense also?? Drafting Bush over DD would be an upgrade. Don't get me wrong folks, I really do like DD but I think it would be an upgrade to draft Bush and trade DD to get extra picks/players.
TheOgre
All Pro
jerek said:
Bush is supposed to be a very good pass blocker. He would be a good asset to the team if we retain (assuming it is ours) the #1 pick. I'm in favor of trading down, if the compensation is sufficient. I don't want us to broker a bargain deal and trade down for less though. If our GM plays it right, we should be able to get a very good/great offer for the pick.
The Preacher
Waterboy
TheOgre said:
At least we get to have an exciting offseason after such a miserable year.
MorKnolle
All Pro
TexanAlmighty said:
We are not going to get more than a 3rd round pick for Domanick Davis not to mention we eat $7.5 million in dead cap next year for doing that, not to mention we're going to have to pay Bush at least $50 million over 5-6 years while we're currently paying Davis $25 million for 5 years. If we trade the #1 pick we can add at least one 2nd round and two 3rd round picks over the next two years. If we trade down a second time, we can add another 1st round pick for next year and a 2nd or 3rd round pick for this year. By trading twice, we can pick up 1 future 1st, two 2nds (this and/or next year), three 3rds (this and/or next year) draft picks in addition to what we would already have, all the picks in this year's draft would be in the top 5 of their respective round, and we can probably pay all 5-6 people we get from these draft picks less than what we'd pay Reggie Bush by himself. That is how you build a successful team.
TheOgre said:
I have yet to see Bush block at all yet, he is usually either in the slot or running a route out of the backfield, but I doubt he's a great blocker at all, and either way if he's such a great weapon that people claim he is I wouldn't want him sitting back there and blocking anyways. Obviously we will have to make sure we get an adequate trade, I am not at all advocating trading down for some bargain deal for another team, but there should be several teams that are high in the draft that want Bush and will be willing to trade for him, and we can take competing offers from all these teams and play them against each other and come out with a trade that is very beneficial to us.
Erratic Assassin
Rookie
dat_boy_yec said:
I've been hearing that same story for the past 4 years and it simply isn't true. We're not get a stud linemen in free agency or in the later rounds of the draft. That is a fairy tale. That's what got us into this mess. That is why we are actually WORSE than an expansion team after building this team for 4 years.
Stud linemen are almost impossible to come by. Teams will hang on to them because they are damn near irreplaceable. All the top linemen in the league were high first round picks. The sooner we figure that out the sooner we can start winning. You can draw up all the plays in the world and none of them are going to work until you get your line in order.
TheOgre
All Pro
MorKnolle said:
Depending upon the situation, he will have to block. If you send him out on every single pass play, Carr will get murdered. I tend to think we will trade down and get Ferguson or Winston and acquire more picks. If we draft Bush, I would be disappointed, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.
TexanAlmighty
Waterboy
MorKnolle said:
How do you know for sure we can only get a 3rd rounder for DD? When the Colts traded Marshal Faulk they got a second rounder for him. Alexander and James could not get a 3rd rounder because they were not signed to long term contracts and teams were afraid of getting them and seeing them walk after their contract was up. DD is signed and may be more valuable. Why would you want to go through another season waiting on picks for next year? If we do trade down I want the picks for this year. No way I want to go through another season like this. Trading down is not as easy as you think. If you are selling to trade down for extra picks to pass on Reggie's talent I ain't buying
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
TexanAlmighty said:How do you know for sure we can only get a 3rd rounder for DD? When the Colts traded Marshal Faulk they got a second rounder for him. Alexander and James could not get a 3rd rounder because they were not signed to long term contracts and teams were afraid of getting them and seeing them walk after their contract was up. DD is signed and may be more valuable. Why would you want to go through another season waiting on picks for next year? If we do trade down I want the picks for this year. No way I want to go through another season like this. Trading down is not as easy as you think. If you are selling to trade down for extra picks to pass on Reggie's talent I ain't buying
Valid take on Alexander and James. Our situation is a little different with DD bacause if we are trying to move him it would signal to the other team that we need to unload him and would diminsh our leverage.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
MorKnolle said:
Even if there is another $3 mil in guaranteed money in DD's contract, the trade scenario is different than the cut scenario because the contract would go with DD and the $3 mil bonus would go on the team with the contract when it was paid. Thus, assuming the other $3 mil is fully guaranteed--cutting DD may have a $7.5 mil cap hit, but trading him would have about a $4.2 mil cap hit. Still don't think DD gets traded...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Coach C. said:
Not if it is a future payment. The signing bonus he has already received would all hit the Texans and none would go to the trading team but from the date of the trade, the other team takes on all the obligations and rights of the contract, including future bonuses--see Ricky Williams and about $3 mil of the bonus money the Dolphins sought repayment for under Ricky's contract written with the Saints. The Texans would not trade DD and hand him a check for a bonus due June 1, 2007 and pay him on the butt on the way out the door--they would hand him his contract and tell him to go get it on June 1, 2007 from his new team.