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Texans Need to Keep an Eye on Roughnecks QB P.J. Walker and Watson compliments him

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I never thought criticizing Watson is off limits. IMHO, there are three groups of posters on this forum.
  1. A small, but vocal group of posters you call the JIC group. Enough said
  2. A small, but vocal group of posters who minimizes any of Watson's accomplishments, maximizes his weaknesses and have made up their mind that he will not be a good QB.
  3. The majority of posters who believe Watson has not reached his ceiling, shows great potential, is still learning, but has to and can improve his game. This group of posters also think O'Brien can do a better job of helping Watson reach his potential by tweaking the offense.
As far as criticizing Watson. The third group of posters do criticize Watson without making it personal. They hear and read that Watson studies hard, is coach-able, intelligent, and hard working. You see him speaking to a room full of reporters, he is breaking down the defensive coverages and explaining what he's seeing on the field. Most reasonable people would agree that at this point, the kid is not at the level of a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but they see the potential of what he can become.

For the majority of their existence, the Texans have been in QB purgatory. Now they have a QB, the Group3 posters don't understand why Group1 and Group2 cannot wait to let Watson's career unfold to crown him or run him out of town. In the meantime, this forum is flooded with the vocal Group1 and Group2 posters trolling and antagonizing each other and Group3 having to defend Watson over what they considere Group2's unfair comparisons and expectations.

At some point, the forum just gets unreadable.
This is by far one of the best post on this particular subject. I believe I’m in Group 3.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Apparently you


Apparently you didn't watch the last month of the season.

Like I said 10 good games and 7 bad games isn't a championship formula
After this post, I'm going to do my part in de-cluttering this forum. Instead of responding, I will simply "thumbs down" your Group2 posts. Have a great day.
 

PHILLYTEXANFAN

Saddle Up Partner
Apparently you


Apparently you didn't watch the last month of the season.

Like I said 10 good games and 7 bad games isn't a championship formula
He has a dumb dumb instagram guru in his ear. Quincy Avery.. Just google the guy. Im surprised the dude is allowed the access he has.
 

Earl34

All Pro
I half agree. The other half wants to refer to Bill Parcells who stated that you only need 21 games to know who your QB truly is.
Good point on the Bill Parcells' rules for drafting college QBs.
  1. Be a three-year starter
  2. Be a senior in college
  3. Graduate from college
  4. Start 30 games
  5. Win 23 games
  6. Post a 2:1 touchdown-to-interception ratio
  7. Complete at least 60-percent of passes thrown
Deshaun Watson
Years as a starter: 2
Is he a senior: No
College graduate? Yes
Did he start 30 games? Yes (35)
23-game winner? Yes (32)
TD:INT ratio 2-to-1: Yes (90:32)
Career completion percentage above 60-percent? Yes (67.4)

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2017/3/28/15098538/chicago-bears-deshaun-watson-deshone-kizer-mitch-trubisky-patrick-mahomes-parcells-nfl-draft-2017
 

PHILLYTEXANFAN

Saddle Up Partner
Good point on the Bill Parcells' rules for drafting college QBs.
  1. Be a three-year starter
  2. Be a senior in college
  3. Graduate from college
  4. Start 30 games
  5. Win 23 games
  6. Post a 2:1 touchdown-to-interception ratio
  7. Complete at least 60-percent of passes thrown
Deshaun Watson
Years as a starter: 2
Is he a senior: No
College graduate? Yes
Did he start 30 games? Yes (35)
23-game winner? Yes (32)
TD:INT ratio 2-to-1: Yes (90:32)
Career completion percentage above 60-percent? Yes (67.4)

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2017/3/28/15098538/chicago-bears-deshaun-watson-deshone-kizer-mitch-trubisky-patrick-mahomes-parcells-nfl-draft-2017
I forget year that was he originally stated that, but in this era if you make an adjustment, for me, if a QB is under 63.5% in college, my brain automatically shuts down and said prospect is immediately eliminated. +/- 5 % is the usual adjustment window from college to pros. I also think the 3 year starter is a bit overblown. 2 years will suffice. Unless you truly believe that colleges staff will fine tune your game better than the pros/want to avoid a terrible team drafting you or if you believe theres a chance to get or repeat as champion.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Nope he's just a closet racist

BTW, Mahomes has been my favorite QB since before he was drafted.

Jamie's Winston was my favorite QB coming out in his draft. So I'm certainly not against having a minority QB. I don't care if the QB of my team is green as long as he's good. But White/ Black/orGreen I'm going to point out his weaknesses and criticize him if he doesn't improve them.

Schaubs weaknesses were certainly a hot topic around these parts, is DW4 off limits because of the color of his skin?
Well I guess we know according to Earl DW4 is off limits because of the color of his skin.

Nice to have this out in the open.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I never thought criticizing Watson is off limits. IMHO, there are three groups of posters on this forum.
  1. A small, but vocal group of posters you call the JIC group. Enough said
  2. A small, but vocal group of posters who minimizes any of Watson's accomplishments, maximizes his weaknesses and have made up their mind that he will not be a good QB.
  3. The majority of posters who believe Watson has not reached his ceiling, shows great potential, is still learning, but has to and can improve his game. This group of posters also think O'Brien can do a better job of helping Watson reach his potential by tweaking the offense.
As far as criticizing Watson. The third group of posters do criticize Watson without making it personal. They hear and read that Watson studies hard, is coach-able, intelligent, and hard working. You see him speaking to a room full of reporters, he is breaking down the defensive coverages and explaining what he's seeing on the field. Most reasonable people would agree that at this point, the kid is not at the level of a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but they see the potential of what he can become.

For the majority of their existence, the Texans have been in QB purgatory. Now they have a QB, the Group3 posters don't understand why Group1 and Group2 cannot wait to let Watson's career unfold to crown him or run him out of town. In the meantime, this forum is flooded with the vocal Group1 and Group2 posters trolling and antagonizing each other and Group3 having to defend Watson over what they considere Group2's unfair comparisons and expectations.

At some point, the forum just gets unreadable.
1. I didn't name DW4 JIC that was UR.
2. The JIC crowd is the vocal crowd. I'm just balancing things out and just because I dont think DW4's a championship level QB and never will be doesn't make me a hater or that I dont want to be wrong.
3. I hope this group is right, I think they're wasting their time with DW4 though and just because the Texans have never had a franchise QB doesn't mean DW4's a franchise QB or that he ever will be one. There's a big difference between running him out of town or crowning him and feeling like the next 5 yrs is just going to be a big waste of time.

Tell me what makes you think he's going to improve or have some great epiphany that he hasn't had in his 1st 3 yrs? Other than blind fandom that is? This is an honest question.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Apparently you


Apparently you didn't watch the last month of the season.

Like I said 10 good games and 7 bad games isn't a championship formula
Hey Earl,

What accomplishments?

Are you saying this is a championship formula?

Because of all of your unlikes?

All of them aren't going to change anything. Unless DW4 improves there will be many more unlikes coming from you in the future because I'm going to keep pointing out things like this.

This is the last gift that the incompetence RS gave the GREAT fans of the HOUSTON TEXANS. (5 more yrs of mediocrity because DW4's a decent QB that Group 1 thinks is a franchise QB.

Let me ask you this, how many QB's with DW4's style of play have won championships? Elway/Young/Wilson/Staubach and all of them had better accuracy/anticipation in addition to being able to process better. We're going into yr 4 and tell me without throwing up a bunch of meaningless stats where you think DW4's improved over his rookie yr, even though he's got alot more talent aroungd him now?
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Hey Earl,

What accomplishments?

Are you saying this is a championship formula?

Because of all of your unlikes?

All of them aren't going to change anything. Unless DW4 improves there will be many more unlikes coming from you in the future because I'm going to keep pointing out things like this.

This is the last gift that the incompetence RS gave the GREAT fans of the HOUSTON TEXANS. (5 more yrs of mediocrity because DW4's a decent QB that Group 1 thinks is a franchise QB.

Let me ask you this, how many QB's with DW4's style of play have won championships? Elway/Young/Wilson/Staubach and all of them had better accuracy/anticipation in addition to being able to process better. We're going into yr 4 and tell me without throwing up a bunch of meaningless stats where you think DW4's improved over his rookie yr, even though he's got alot more talent aroungd him now?
Can you give me a few more of those unlikes.

I know I'm on the right track when you disagree with me.
 
I never thought criticizing Watson is off limits. IMHO, there are three groups of posters on this forum.
  1. A small, but vocal group of posters you call the JIC group. Enough said
  2. A small, but vocal group of posters who minimizes any of Watson's accomplishments, maximizes his weaknesses and have made up their mind that he will not be a good QB.
  3. The majority of posters who believe Watson has not reached his ceiling, shows great potential, is still learning, but has to and can improve his game. This group of posters also think O'Brien can do a better job of helping Watson reach his potential by tweaking the offense.
As far as criticizing Watson. The third group of posters do criticize Watson without making it personal. They hear and read that Watson studies hard, is coach-able, intelligent, and hard working. You see him speaking to a room full of reporters, he is breaking down the defensive coverages and explaining what he's seeing on the field. Most reasonable people would agree that at this point, the kid is not at the level of a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but they see the potential of what he can become.

For the majority of their existence, the Texans have been in QB purgatory. Now they have a QB, the Group3 posters don't understand why Group1 and Group2 cannot wait to let Watson's career unfold to crown him or run him out of town. In the meantime, this forum is flooded with the vocal Group1 and Group2 posters trolling and antagonizing each other and Group3 having to defend Watson over what they considere Group2's unfair comparisons and expectations.

At some point, the forum just gets unreadable.
So what about the “it’s all OBs fault and everything that goes wrong is on him and everything that goes right is in spite of him” group? They’re pretty vocal and irrational but their opinion is more popular so it doesn’t get near the microscope put on it.
 

Earl34

All Pro
So what about the “it’s all OBs fault and everything that goes wrong is on him and everything that goes right is in spite of him” group? They’re pretty vocal and irrational but their opinion is more popular so it doesn’t get near the microscope put on it.
My post was about criticism of Watson and not O’Brien. We can do a similar grouping for O’Brien.
 
My post was about criticism of Watson and not O’Brien. We can do a similar grouping for O’Brien.
Well in that case I mostly agree with you though I will say I think there is more cross over between group 2 and 3 than you might think. For example I think Watson has accuracy problems, I think he has had them since collge and in fact it was his main weakness at the combine. I don't think he will ever be able to put a ball through a tire 30 yards away on the majority of throws. I also don't think he needs to, he may not can hit the tire but he can hit a WR and he can do it while moving. So as far as accuracy goes yes I think he has hit his ceiling but I don't think that is a hard ceiling that will keep him from taking a team to a championship. Now keep him from winning a championship with OB as the OC that is another story.
 

TexanBorn51

Veteran
Good morning all. Just for fun and grins talking about Texans QB accurancy Check out AJ McCarron at Mardi Gras throwing pass. lol
 
Posting this ad nauseum doesn't make this opinion correct. Let's take a look at Will Fuller's highlights. By all accounts, Fuller is one of the fastest WRs in the NFL. Show us how Watson's accuracy and anticipation deficiencies are impacting Fuller's production.

Watch this video and tell us what is Watson doing wrong in your eyes.

FYI. IF the video doesn't play, there is a Watch on YouTube link in the video.

To be fair those are highlights. You ever seen a highlight video where everyone, except the other team, didn't look like a first round HoFer?
 

Earl34

All Pro
To be fair those are highlights. You ever seen a highlight video where everyone, except the other team, didn't look like a first round HoFer?
You raise a fair point about using the highlights.

The narrative is Watson cannot throw with accuracy and anticipation. I used Fuller highlights as an example because to consistently hit a fast, deep threat, you have to throw with accuracy and anticipation. The highlights demonstrates that he can.

Now if the narrative is he doesn’t consistently throw with accuracy and anticipation then we can discuss the reasons.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
You raise a fair point about using the highlights.

The narrative is Watson cannot throw with accuracy and anticipation. I used Fuller highlights as an example because to consistently hit a fast, deep threat, you have to throw with accuracy and anticipation. The highlights demonstrates that he can.

Now if the narrative is he doesn’t consistently throw with accuracy and anticipation then we can discuss the reasons.
Excellent reply! Because I think consistency is the real issue, we have all seen him throw with anticipation and accuracy -

Does he do it more or less often than other QB's? Very difficult to quantify since all QB's are in a different situation.

If he can do it (which you have shown he can) why isn't he more consistent? Do his mechanics break down? Possibly he is on the move or in a not comfortable pocket a lot. Does he have the capacity to 'slow' the game down and make sure his mechanics are correct before throwing? Can the scheme help him? More routes in a 1.5-second window when he still typically has a pocket (expand his throw options), more designed plays to get him out of the pocket?

To me, this is interesting - if you know someone CAN do something, but they don't do it consistently, why? (Perfect example Tiger Woods swing)
 
You raise a fair point about using the highlights.

The narrative is Watson cannot throw with accuracy and anticipation. I used Fuller highlights as an example because to consistently hit a fast, deep threat, you have to throw with accuracy and anticipation. The highlights demonstrates that he can.

Now if the narrative is he doesn’t consistently throw with accuracy and anticipation then we can discuss the reasons.
I've always considered the narrative to be about his consistenty. If people are taking it that anyone is saying he can never hit his target then they are being way to literal. Everyone on here knows that if Watson could never hit his target, or even mostly hit his target, then he wouldn't have been a high school QB never mind a Clemson or NFL one. Again though we come back to that difference between hitting a 6' X" WR and putting a ball through a tire. Some on here can't seem to understand that there is a difference and just because people like me say that Watson can't do one doesn't mean that he doesn't have other skills. I'm not knocking Watson I'm saying accuracy and anticipation are not his strong points and if he has to live or die on them he will come up short most of the time.

I don't blame him though, he was this way in college and pretty much the entire time he has been a QB, the only problem is the scheme he is playing in is designed for a Brady or Brees type pocket passer. Whether that passer actually exists or not doesn't matter thats who it is designed for. Again this is not a knock on Watson, he is what he is and what he is isn't bad but its not a good fit. I don't even consider it a knock on OB because his scheme has always been designed that way from when he was with Brady in NE to when he moved to Penn state.

We are seeing the results of a GM and a HC with two different visions for the Texans, RS invisioned a fast, mobile team and OB invisioned a more classic style of football team that was a brick wall protecting a turret QB with RB and WR thats smashed their way through defenses. Its why Miller and Johnson haven't had much success but Hyde has shined because the scheme is designed for a power back not a speed demon. Also why I believe RS didn't invest much in the Oline because if the QB is constantly moving and barely has the ball anytime or is running himself then you don't need an all star line you just need them to buy 2-3 seconds.

Thats all the past, where I have my issue is with the present. I actually don't expect OB to change his scheme nor do I think he could coach it very well if he did because its outside his way of thinking. Fair enough, coaches like players are best in their comfort zones, but you are the damn HC and now GM. If you can't make the scheme fit the QB then go get an OC that can and let them worry about the offense like you let RAC worry about the defense and you just over see the whole thing. You are as cemented as anyone not named Belechick has ever been in the NFL, you're not in a power struggle any more with someone that wants you gone, its ok to take some of the hats off.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I've always considered the narrative to be about his consistenty. If people are taking it that anyone is saying he can never hit his target then they are being way to literal. Everyone on here knows that if Watson could never hit his target, or even mostly hit his target, then he wouldn't have been a high school QB never mind a Clemson or NFL one. Again though we come back to that difference between hitting a 6' X" WR and putting a ball through a tire. Some on here can't seem to understand that there is a difference and just because people like me say that Watson can't do one doesn't mean that he doesn't have other skills. I'm not knocking Watson I'm saying accuracy and anticipation are not his strong points and if he has to live or die on them he will come up short most of the time.

I don't blame him though, he was this way in college and pretty much the entire time he has been a QB, the only problem is the scheme he is playing in is designed for a Brady or Brees type pocket passer. Whether that passer actually exists or not doesn't matter thats who it is designed for. Again this is not a knock on Watson, he is what he is and what he is isn't bad but its not a good fit. I don't even consider it a knock on OB because his scheme has always been designed that way from when he was with Brady in NE to when he moved to Penn state.

We are seeing the results of a GM and a HC with two different visions for the Texans, RS invisioned a fast, mobile team and OB invisioned a more classic style of football team that was a brick wall protecting a turret QB with RB and WR thats smashed their way through defenses. Its why Miller and Johnson haven't had much success but Hyde has shined because the scheme is designed for a power back not a speed demon. Also why I believe RS didn't invest much in the Oline because if the QB is constantly moving and barely has the ball anytime or is running himself then you don't need an all star line you just need them to buy 2-3 seconds.

Thats all the past, where I have my issue is with the present. I actually don't expect OB to change his scheme nor do I think he could coach it very well if he did because its outside his way of thinking. Fair enough, coaches like players are best in their comfort zones, but you are the damn HC and now GM. If you can't make the scheme fit the QB then go get an OC that can and let them worry about the offense like you let RAC worry about the defense and you just over see the whole thing. You are as cemented as anyone not named Belechick has ever been in the NFL, you're not in a power struggle any more with someone that wants you gone, its ok to take some of the hats off.

Maverick great response, I always like reading your take.

My thing is Obrien agreed on that fast pace team. Remember the year before we got torched by teams who had great speed in those key skilled positions.

Quarterbacks: We went and got the type of quarterbacks O’Brien wanted. Two of them played in the system he employs. Both being that prototype QB he wanted. One having the big arm that he likes. And bro it just didn’t work out as planned. He also had a high IQ gamer in Fitzpatrick.

Offensive line: Every year expect his first season the offensive line had several moving parts. They brought in jokers that played well in other systems, but couldn’t produce here. They went after both Solders and Brown and lost out because the other party’s massive offers were out of our price range. Remember we also lost 74 because of what the late McNair said. So bro they addressed the line to under RS. FILO was just a freaking bust here. Over in Dallas he’s played better . Nowhere close to great but overall he was solid.


My thing is even if we had a Brady or Breezy type, they wouldn’t be who they are here under this regime. They’re struggling to coach up their offensive line. That’s the major glaring problem. So we can’t expect those type of quarterbacks to perform at their best with the line consistently being revamped. In three years Watson has been sacked well over 100 times. You can just imagine how many times he’s been actually hit.
 
Maverick great response, I always like reading your take.

My thing is Obrien agreed on that fast pace team. Remember the year before we got torched by teams who had great speed in those key skilled positions.
True we did, speed is one of the weaknesses of the classic style of football team and we went up against some teams that had it in spades. Thing is though every type of team has a weakness and there is no perfect system. As far as OB agreeing it’s hard to say, the faster team identity cane about the same year Osweiler was brought in and I think by that point McNair had had enough and decided to let RS build a team around his vision. I don’t blame him, not after Hoyer curled up into a ball, but if he was going to do that he should have fired OB and brought in a coach that liked speed teams.

Quarterbacks: We went and got the type of quarterbacks O’Brien wanted. Two of them played in the system he employs. Both being that prototype QB he wanted. One having the big arm that he likes. And bro it just didn’t work out as planned. He also had a high IQ gamer in Fitzpatrick.
No you are exactly right it didn’t work out but that is the nature of NFL QBs. Far more bomb than succeed and even the best college QBs can fall flat in the NFL (RGIII, Tebow, Manziel and looking like Trubisky). I don’t think anyone, OB included, thought Hoyer was the answer he was just meant to be a stop gap and then back up till Mallet was ready. Then Mallet showed he lacked the maturity and the backup just became a better answer than the starter. Mallet on paper had everything you could ever want if pocket passer was what you wanted. Trouble is on paper didn’t translate to on field.

Offensive line: Every year expect his first season the offensive line had several moving parts. They brought in jokers that played well in other systems, but couldn’t produce here. They went after both Solders and Brown and lost out because the other party’s massive offers were out of our price range. Remember we also lost 74 because of what the late McNair said. So bro they addressed the line to under RS. FILO was just a freaking bust here. Over in Dallas he’s played better . Nowhere close to great but overall he was solid.
Our Oline has been a comedy of errors that every member of the front office to the coaching staff since 2010 should hang their head in shame for. From RS not being able, or sometimes willing, to draft quality players to McNair and the medical staff running off the few quality players we do get to OB letting Devlin drive the car off the bridge, hauling it out of the water then driving it off again. There is no excuse for the tragedy it has been and should have been grounds to fire any of them.

My thing is even if we had a Brady or Breezy type, they wouldn’t be who they are here under this regime. They’re struggling to coach up their offensive line. That’s the major glaring problem. So we can’t expect those type of quarterbacks to perform at their best with the line consistently being revamped. In three years Watson has been sacked well over 100 times. You can just imagine how many times he’s been actually hit.
I agree and I don’t, Brady and OB actually did have a good run together and if OB hadn’t taken the Penn state job it would have led to more SBs. Likewise people underestimate how good Brady makes olines look because he is such a fast reader and has such a fast release. It’s why guys like Brown look like superstars in NE and barely there anywhere else. Likewise Brees reads the field fast and most of all he can knock a fly out of the air with that fast read.

What I agree with is that having to revamp the line so much has really hurt us, in Watson’s case literally. Where most teams lose their key players over time and have a chance replace them piece by piece we seemed to lose ours over just a couple of seasons with no replacement in line. It’s why I think OB signed Martin to that contract and why I believe he went out and got Tunsil. Tunsil will get resigned BUT even if he doesn’t we still have him for at least next year and if we tag him the year after. That means that 3 years in a row we will have the same people in the line barring injury. I don’t think the Texans have ever had the same line for 3 years in a row or at least OB hasn’t.
 

Earl34

All Pro
I agree and I don’t, Brady and OB actually did have a good run together and if OB hadn’t taken the Penn state job it would have led to more SBs. Likewise people underestimate how good Brady makes olines look because he is such a fast reader and has such a fast release. It’s why guys like Brown look like superstars in NE and barely there anywhere else. Likewise Brees reads the field fast and most of all he can knock a fly out of the air with that fast read.
During O'Brien only season as Patriots' OC, the primary receivers were the TEs and slot WRs. Welker (173), Gronkowski (124) and Hernandez (113) got the majority of the targets and the WRs were really the 3rd and 4th options. Compare that to the target distribution with O'Brien's offenses with the Texans.

I know we joke about O'Brien drafting TEs. I believe he has been trying to find his version of Gronk and Hernandez. Also, he hasn't been able to find a slot WR to quickly win the one on one matchups like Welker. Coutee is in the doghouse and his career with the Texans is in doubt. However, his best game as a Texans looks very similar to Welker with the Patriots. It's also no coincidence that Welker was on the staff when Coutee looked so promising.

Brees is targeting Michael Thomas 150 times a year while Kamara gets 100 targets. Brady always has a slot WR and Gronk. Watson has Hopkins. But who else on the roster plays 16 games and can be targeted 100 times. Who on the roster can quickly win their one on one matchups to help/force him to make these quick reads and decisions?

When Coutee was involved in the offense, the ball was coming out of Watson's hand in 3-4 seconds. Here is video proof. A fast reader and fast release goes hand in hand with someone being able to win their matchups within 3-5 seconds too. For me, Watson can get better. He should play better. But his coach and GM has to help him more. If O'Brien is stuck in this version of the EP offense, he has to be able to get a slot WR who can win their matchups like Welker and putting Hopkins in the slot is not the same thing.

Hyperlink: Every Keke Coutee catch from his 110-yard day

 
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Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
PJ is playing in the XFL because he didn't make it in the NFL. Which doesn't mean that with the experience he's getting now that he won't, in fact, I'm sure someone will snatch him up as a backup QB. Which is the purpose of minor leagues.
He wouldn't leave a little pond where he can be a big fish to be a backup somewhere else.
 
During O'Brien only season as Patriots' OC, the primary receivers were the TEs and slot WRs. Welker (173), Gronkowski (124) and Hernandez (113) got the majority of the targets and the WRs were really the 3rd and 4th options. Compare that to the target distribution with O'Brien's offenses with the Texans.

I know we joke about O'Brien drafting TEs. I believe he has been trying to find his version of Gronk and Hernandez. Also, he hasn't been able to find a slot WR to quickly win the one on one matchups like Welker. Coutee is in the doghouse and his career with the Texans is in doubt. However, his best game as a Texans looks very similar to Welker with the Patriots. It's also no coincidence that Welker was on the staff when Coutee looked so promising.

Brees is targeting Michael Thomas 150 times a year while Kamara gets 100 targets. Brady always has a slot WR and Gronk. Watson has Hopkins. But who else on the roster plays 16 games and can be targeted 100 times. Who on the roster can quickly win their one on one matchups to help/force him to make these quick reads and decisions?

When Coutee was involved in the offense, the ball was coming out of Watson's hand in 3-4 seconds. Here is video proof. A fast reader and fast release goes hand in hand with someone being able to win their matchups within 3-5 seconds too. For me, Watson can get better. He should play better. But his coach and GM has to help him more. If O'Brien is stuck in this version of the EP offense, he has to be able to get a slot WR who can win their matchups like Welker and putting Hopkins in the slot is not the same thing.

Hyperlink: Every Keke Coutee catch from his 110-yard day

I think they are really banking on Warring. There was a lot of buzz around him in the draft with many people thinking Texans got an absolute steal and that his ceiling was sky high. He looked really good in camp and looked like he might turn into our version of Gronk before he got injured. I’m hoping the year of healing and extra training means that we really get to see something from him next season.

This season Watson targeted the TEs more than ever and they made some big plays. If the TEs don’t have to spend half the season blocking because the line finally can hold and we got a real threat in the short pass game to take advantage of that wide open middle then we might finally see the offense we have all hoped we’d see.
 

Mangler

All Pro
I think they are really banking on Warring. There was a lot of buzz around him in the draft with many people thinking Texans got an absolute steal and that his ceiling was sky high. He looked really good in camp and looked like he might turn into our version of Gronk before he got injured. I’m hoping the year of healing and extra training means that we really get to see something from him next season.

This season Watson targeted the TEs more than ever and they made some big plays. If the TEs don’t have to spend half the season blocking because the line finally can hold and we got a real threat in the short pass game to take advantage of that wide open middle then we might finally see the offense we have all hoped we’d see.
I completely forgot about Warring! I hope he’s done with the injuries so we can see what he has. Would be nice to have a Gronk-type TE to go with our wideouts! Our offense will have to be on the Chiefs’ level to overcome our crap for defense. Here’s hoping defense gets addressed via FA and the draft. We need all kinds of talent!
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I might go the 'cultural misappropriation' route if I was being honest but basically yes. Guys who loved Stauback and Montana, dont have the same love for the new age QB. Toss in the Kaepernick fiasco and I would say that BLACK QBs specifically are not supported the same way by older generations in comparison to the "younger" guys and more to the point the white QB. (im no spring chicken at 42 BTW and of mixed race). Look at what the dumb superintendent said about Watson when we signed him:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/09/22/deshaun-watson-texans-school-superintendent-lynn-redden-resigns-after-racist-comment

Remember how Warren Moon and his family were treated by our very own Houstonians??

there has never been a stronger disconnect between generations in our society as there is now and sadly most of that materializes from the political sphere and infiltrates the safe space that should be sport and as much as I would love to believe that there is no racial divide among us here, one visit to the No Spin Zone will give you a better understanding of our brethern among us.

MODERATOR CLARIFICATION: is the word BOOMER on 'out of bounds' term here now?
Lol! How could we have a thread without some attention hound over compensating and trying to create some racial debate about whether or not if Watson or black QB's are treated well.

This has to be the worst troll bait I've ever seen. :facepalm:
 
I saw some of the game. Maybe I’ll watch if Houston gets to the championship game, but I wasn’t really into it.
It’s an acquired taste I’ll admit. XFL doesn’t have the skill level of the NFL or the emotional attachment most people have with their chosen college team. The biggest thing is to accept it for what it is. I got into more once I realized that pretty much all these guys are taking one last shot at their dream, getting paid to play football.

Add to that the tickets prices are MUCH lower, you don’t have to plan four hours in and out for traffic and the being on the ground floor part and it’s become a lot of fun for me.

Fact we are 4-0 doesn’t hurt either. :spin:
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
It’s an acquired taste I’ll admit. XFL doesn’t have the skill level of the NFL or the emotional attachment most people have with their chosen college team. The biggest thing is to accept it for what it is. I got into more once I realized that pretty much all these guys are taking one last shot at their dream, getting paid to play football.

Add to that the tickets prices are MUCH lower, you don’t have to plan four hours in and out for traffic and the being on the ground floor part and it’s become a lot of fun for me.

Fact we are 4-0 doesn’t hurt either. :spin:
It just reminds me of Arena football in the sense that it’s a bunch of players that didn’t make it to the NFL. Maybe I’ll get used to it the more I watch.
 
It just reminds me of Arena football in the sense that it’s a bunch of players that didn’t make it to the NFL. Maybe I’ll get used to it the more I watch.
You’re not wrong though it seems to have a bigger game feel than arena football. I think the fact that Vinny Mac got fox and ESPN to air it and treat it like a pretty big deal has helped. What is setting the XFL apart from everything before it is mainly that you can actually find the games.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
I finally watched an XFL game. Although I only watched the first half, Walker reminded me of Joe Webb. I didn't get the hype. Maybe I picked the wrong game to watch.
Yeah, that wasn't a very pretty game. Dallas supposedly has one of the better defenses in the league though. They completely took their top receiver out of the game.

I think you hit it with the Joe Webb comparison, though I think Walker may be a better passer.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
I wonder if it comes down to route running rather than the QB throwing.
Watson doesn’t seem to have as many issues when Hopkins and Fuller are both on field.
Are the other WRs making the right reads and running the right routes consistently? It seems Coutee wasn’t, are Carter and Stills running those routes much better?
Watson seemed to hit Stills when he was taking the D deep without issue during the season. Any time he was doing anything other than that it was a bit more sketchy.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
I wonder if it comes down to route running rather than the QB throwing.
Watson doesn’t seem to have as many issues when Hopkins and Fuller are both on field.
Are the other WRs making the right reads and running the right routes consistently? It seems Coutee wasn’t, are Carter and Stills running those routes much better?
Watson seemed to hit Stills when he was taking the D deep without issue during the season. Any time he was doing anything other than that it was a bit more sketchy.
Great Point! This is absolutely an issue. If you haven’t listened to the Cecil Shorts/Wade Smith podcast from several weeks back where Cecil went over the complexity of our scheme you should. In Watson’s 3 yrs with the Texans, Fuller has missed 20 games. His WRs for the most part, haven’t had much time with the team (save Hopkins obviously). in 2018, he played with Carter (added during the preseason), Vincent Smyth, Akins, Thomas, and Coutee (all rookies). This past season it was Fells, Stills, Hyde and Johnson’s first year in the system. In the podcast Cecil mentioned that it takes 2-3 yrs to really get the system. Look at the issues TB had this year playing with new young WRs, he certainly didn’t look like the old TB.

In our system where everyone is making reads, how do you throw with anticipation when you’re not 100% certain where the WR are going to be?
 

Mangler

All Pro
I went to the first game with an open mind and have been pleasantly surprised. Houston is probably the best team in the league (nice to be the best anything in any league) and I’ve gotten more into it after going to the second home game. I’ll continue to watch and rooting for the Roughnecks to win the championship! I’ll be at every home game, as $24 per ticket is hard to pass up.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
I've never said BOB was a QB whisperer. The only people who said that was the media.

If BOB was a QB whisperer (I dont think he is) what does that say about DW4? DW4's the only QB that's regressed under BOB though.
That he is the only QB that has played more than a season for him as an OC or head coach? (You could count Brady as he was the QB coach for 1 season and the OC for 1).
 


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