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Texans make contract offer to Shelton

TexansTrueFan said:
if they had really wanted pace they coulda made an offer he woulda taken, its not like at the time we were in any kinda cap trouble. It was an opportunity to get a good guy they took it and lost, i wouldnt pass on any kinda all star player either, no matter who i had at the postioion already.
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Yeah, when you bring up going after Pace, you're talking about going after a possible future hall of famer, you don't get a chance to go after someone like that every season. That would be like saying that we we're looking to replace Dominic Davis if we tried to sign Tomlinson had he become a franchise player.
 
TexansTrueFan said:
if they had really wanted pace they coulda made an offer he woulda taken, its not like at the time we were in any kinda cap trouble. It was an opportunity to get a good guy they took it and lost, i wouldnt pass on any kinda all star player either, no matter who i had at the postioion already.
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Actually, the Rams could have matched any offer the Texans made. Also, by signing Pace to an offer sheet the Texans would have been committing two first round draft picks and ton of money. Not very much was in the Texans corner. While not in the Beltran/Astros mold, Pace used the Texans a bit to get a long-term contract from the Rams.
 
ojthecat said:
The fact is Boselli never affected us. Casserly and Capers knew very well that he might never play. We had a deal worked out with Jacksonville that if we took Boselli then we could also take Walker and Payne.
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wow man, you gotta open your eyes a bit. :bag:
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
While not in the Beltran/Astros mold, Pace used the Texans a bit to get a long-term contract from the Rams.
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Drew Rosenhaus = Scott Boras

But in that case it was Carl Poston (Pace's agent) playing the bad guy.
 
According to Houston channel 2 news at ten last night, Shelton and agent are now in Cleveland and we are miles apart on on the money they want. Stay tuned.
 
latest found...

Browns | To Join Shelton Race - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:21:21 -0700

Brad Biggs, of the Chicago Sun-Times, reports the Cleveland Browns have entered the mix of teams that are interested in signing free agent OT L.J. Shelton (Cardinals). With veteran OT Ross Verba threatening to sit out the season, Shelton potentially could step into a starting position.
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and yet...
Browns | Boulware Visiting Today - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:35:12 -0700

Updating a previous report, the Plain Dealer reports free agent LB Peter Boulware (Ravens) is expected take a physical examination and visit with Cleveland Browns coaches Thursday, June 2. If the Browns like what they see medically and athletically from Boulware, they better act fast because he is scheduled to go to Seattle next. The Seattle Seahawks are seen by some as the favorites to land Boulware, partially because his younger brother, Michael, is the team's starting strong safety. "I was told the opportunity for him and Michael to play together was going to be a factor [in his decision]," Baltimore Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome said Wednesday, June 1. "They've never been able to play together."
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They need more help on the defensive side of the ball. Last year they gave up the most rushing touchdowns in the leauge.
 
edo783: Can the Browns afford to sign both? If not, which do they pick if both available?

I believe the Browns are switching to the 3-4 defense. If that's the case I'd think that they'd be more agressive with the signing of Boulware. The Browns are bad all over the place though and definentally could use the help at OT... so who really knows?????
 
I would rather us not overpay for a guy. If he was not worth what they wanted, the good riddance. Our staff is going to have to work harder to get the job done with what we have.
 
May be we can trade the Browns Shelton for Verba. A little tongue in cheek, but who knows the way this year has gone.
 
The guys on 610 are thinking Boulware ends up a Brown and Shelton ends up a Chief. Concerning Shelton, most likely the Texans just offered a one year deal (with next year's draft coming up with good prospects apparently) and the Shelton camp is looking for a multi-year deal or some major $$ for one year.

... and yes, this is just their point of view, not necessarily "official".
 
-- Shelton Impresses Browns --
Fri Jun 3, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Beacon Journal reports Browns GM Phil Savage said during his presentation that former Arizona OT L.J. Shelton visited on Wednesday and was ``fairly impressive.''
 
Here is an interesting thing I came across:

Lets compare the Left Tackle stats of LT Shelton vs. Seth Wand and 2003 Left Tackle Chester Pitts.

LJ Shelton Stats

Despite his poor 2002 showing with 9.25 sacks allowed, his overall season average is 5 sacks per season. His false start penalties are at a minimum.

Seth Wand Stats

Although only 1 false start penalty, everything else gets washed out as he was credited with an alarming 12.5 sacks allowed!

Chester Pitts Stats

Chester Pitts in 2003 as starting Left Tackle gave up only 5.75 sacks allowed, but had 8 false start penalties.


Now, compare all three to the "elite" Orlando Pace:
Orlando Pace Stats

Pace in his eight year career (although he started off poor) has an average of 5.47 sacks allowed per season. Last year's false start penalties of 9 is somewhat alarming.
 
Looking at those stats that TEXANS84 posted it also looks like Pitts has a holding problem when he plays tackle 5 in 2002 and 7 in 2003. While he had 3 last year and Wand had 2.
 
Wow...how did I overlook Pitts 2002 Left Tackle stats of 15 sacks allowed!

Now Wand looks like an all-pro.
 
Man, Wand's stats are quite impressive, IMO... 12.5 sacks is certainly a big number but only 1 false start and 2 holding penalties is AMAZING! If there is agreement that he has physical ability to play the position then I think with the kind of concentration and discipline that those stats illustrate, he's going to be a very good LT!

Furthermore, those stats support the argument that myself, Vinny, Lucky, and others have made in his defense. Wand wasn't often severely overmatched. Many of the sacks were a result, at least partially, of the interior line breaking down. I say that because holds happen when you've been beaten. False starts happen when you're overmatched and know it. Since neither happened with Wand it is evidence that he was rarely dominated.
 
TEXANS84 said:
Wow...how did I overlook Pitts 2002 Left Tackle stats of 15 sacks allowed!

Now Wand looks like an all-pro.
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That's the thing for all the let's give up on Wand after one season people--Pitts went from 15.5 sacks in 2002 to 5.75 in 2003 (but in the process trading away almost twice as many penalties). It is not unreasonable to expect or hope for similar improvement from Wand (who really has had no penalty problem so far) to something around 5-8 sacks this year. That is a liveable range of sacks from the LT position given up by all but the elite LT's in the league, especially considering his run blocking is already above average and should improve as well. The average number of sacks given up by the LT's of the playoff teams last year was 5 with a low of 0 by Walter Jones and a high of 11 by Bryant Mckinnie.
 
Agreed. Wand isn't that bad and deserves the chance to prove himself this year, before being replaced or moved to guard.
 
I think the holding penalties were pretty huge this year also. It wiped out a few TDs (Davis in NY) and it wiped out some potential scoring drives.

i don't think the signing of Shelton changes the way anyone views the talent level or potential Wand has. However what it does is give us more options and gives us a much quicker fix for this year and it allows Wand to mature into his position, and it creates competition. Basically what I am saying is that it gives us real good depth.
 
El Tejano said:
I think the holding penalties were pretty huge this year also. It wiped out a few TDs (Davis in NY) and it wiped out some potential scoring drives.
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While there were some key penalties last year, the Texans O made a big step forward on penalties from 2003 to 2004.

In 2003 the Texans were penalized 121 times on 896 plays or 13.5 % of plays and were 26th in the league in O penalties.

In 2004 the Texans were penalized 106 times on 1001 plays or 10.5 % of plays and were tied for 10th (with Indy) in the league in O penalties.
 
El Tejano said:
I think the holding penalties were pretty huge this year also. It wiped out a few TDs (Davis in NY) and it wiped out some potential scoring drives.

i don't think the signing of Shelton changes the way anyone views the talent level or potential Wand has. However what it does is give us more options and gives us a much quicker fix for this year and it allows Wand to mature into his position, and it creates competition. Basically what I am saying is that it gives us real good depth.
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Why are so few board members this rational?! El Tejano, I agree totally with that. It's been the same with the prospect of signing Boulware. Somehow, people see that as ruining Peek's potential and weakening the team somehow, or they see it as the team acknowledging that our current group at LB aren't any good.
 
But in the case of Wand and other linemen the only way to get better is to have playing time and play with other linemen to help them gel. I mean besides Bosselli no rookie LT has come in to the league and dominate, like when he shut down Bruce Smith.
 
infantrycak said:
In 2004 the Texans were penalized 106 times on 1001 plays or 10.5 % of plays and were tied for 10th (with Indy) in the league in O penalties.
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Is that offensive penalties or total penalties? How many defensive penalties for the Texans in '04? 6.6 penalties/game for the offense alone seems pretty steep to me.
 
Lucky said:
Is that offensive penalties or total penalties? How many defensive penalties for the Texans in '04? 6.6 penalties/game for the offense alone seems pretty steep to me.
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That is offensive penalties only. On defense:

2003--96 penalties on 1054 plays or 9.1% of plays for 10th least penalized team.

2004--123 penalties on 971 plays or 12.7% of plays for 30th least penalized or 3rd most penalized.

In other words Capers had to be going nuts that the D was extending other teams' drives like crazy.
 
infantrycak said:
2004--123 penalties on 971 plays or 12.7% of plays for 30th least penalized or 3rd most penalized.
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Huh? So the Texans committed 229 penalties (plus whatever they incurred on special teams) last year? That would be over 14 penalties per game! That doesn't sound right. Maybe the Texans committed 106 penalties & their oppostion committed 123 penalties?
 
Lucky said:
Huh? So the Texans committed 229 penalties (plus whatever they incurred on special teams) last year? That would be over 14 penalties per game! That doesn't sound right. Maybe the Texans committed 106 penalties & their oppostion committed 123 penalties?
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You know that doesn't sound right. Looking through the 1st 4 game logs from last year they had 6-9 total penalties a game. The numbers above come from NFL.com's total offense and total defense stats. I'll check another source.

OK--your surmise is correct although the way they list them is misleading. On total O stats they list all of the penalties both O & D for a team and on total D stats they list all of the penalties for O & D by teams the Texans or whomever faced. Goofy but whatever. Oh well, disregard all the penalty stuff other than the Texans generally improved from 2003 to 2004 because I can't find a split between the two.

Overall the Texans did improve on penalties last year:

2003--121 penalties on 1950 total O&D plays for 6.2%
2004--106 penalties on 1972 total O&D plays for 5.4%
 
infantrycak said:
Oh well, disregard all the penalty stuff other than the Texans generally improved from 2003 to 2004 because I can't find a split between the two.
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I can't find a split. either. I'll go through the games & break down the penalities at some point this offseason. But, I think your original point was correct...the offense had fewer penalties than previous seasons. Defense & special teams? The same or worse, I'm betting.
 
I am paraphrasing here. . .NOT QUOTING, but Adam Sheftfield (sp) was reporting on NFL Total Access, that a few offers have been made, but none greater than the Cleveland Browns offer. He also stated that a decision should be made by this weekend.
 
I hope not, but if we don't get him it's only because we saw something we didn't like and didn't want to pay him the money he was asking for.
 
because as reported the Browns have the biggest offer on the table, and on the news they were talking about how we were far apart on the money. Also his agent and him were down in Houston twice but left without anything forming, and I think they are in Cleveland to this point.
 
Shelton WOULD be good to bring in as he would represent an immediate level of expertise at LT that would place him at about # 16-20 of the 32 starting LTs. Certainly an improvement. However, that is about were he would remain IMO. Wand currently, IMO, would rank at about #26-32. However, I think he has the potential to get to ~11-14. Not elite status, but very solid. Shelton would help right away, but Wand seems to be good for the long term. Would be great to have both and gain the depth.
 
TexansRockMySocks said:
because as reported the Browns have the biggest offer on the table, and on the news they were talking about how we were far apart on the money. Also his agent and him were down in Houston twice but left without anything forming, and I think they are in Cleveland to this point.
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Where was this reported?
 
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