Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

TEXANS KICKOFF 2020 SEASON AGAINST THE CHIEFS

76Texan

Hall of Fame
PFF grading has come a long way since it formally began player grading in 2006............it now is teamed with scouts, coaches and former players. BUT I'm going to give you the last word.........because otherwise this nonsense will have no end.
Doesn't matter because everybody is biased.
There are so many factors you can't account for.
The Titans with Tannerhill might be more efficient than with Mariota.
A pass rusher that plays against a gympy Mahomes has a better chance with him than a guy who plays agaisnt him in full health.

A number of HCs (Dungy, Gruden) had said that there are often times we don't know for sure about the protection call, how a receiver adjust his route (each team can have their own philosophy and it may even change from year to year).

Grading a unit, or the whole defense, or the whole team is more accurate , but may still be incorrect.

Some teams may play in a snow storm, a freezing day, a heavy rainy day, a windy day, etc.

It's not like in a lab where you can keep "everything else being equal".
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
Doesn't matter because everybody is biased.
There are so many factors you can't account for.
The Titans with Tannerhill might be more efficient than with Mariota.
A pass rusher that plays against a gympy Mahomes has a better chance with him than a guy who plays agaisnt him in full health.

A number of HCs (Dungy, Gruden) had said that there are often times we don't know for sure about the protection call, how a receiver adjust his route (each team can have their own philosophy and it may even change from year to year).

Grading a unit, or the whole defense, or the whole team is more accurate , but may still be incorrect.

Some teams may play in a snow storm, a freezing day, a heavy rainy day, a windy day, etc.

It's not like in a lab where you can keep "everything else being equal".
If you believe your analytics are superior to pff's, start a website.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
If I was a HC and I need a QB, i would still have to go for Watson (once Mahomes came off the board.)
You can't wait forever.
But I would train Watson very hard to become a better pocket passer.

Isn't that exactly what OB has attempted to do with Watson ?

Smashing that square peg into the proverbial round hole.

Nope , if I was calling the shots for this offense , the offense would be built around what Watson does well which is exploit the edges and an accurate deep / deep middle ball.

Put him in play action and let him move around outside , force those DB's to commit and take advantage of what they give.

Has the added benefit of not needing an allstar OL working flawlessly ....
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Nope,

Just tired of excuse makers.

6 bad games in a row and counting.
If that's the case, when is OB, Devlin and his staff getting the axe? Correct the damm excuses.

Before I would "EVER" give OB another QB -that would represent a major hole in the head approach- to work with......I'd be giving Watson a new HC, OC and staff to work with. After 6 seasons of the same ol'-same ol' tickle, one thing we all know for certain is OB's methods "WILL NEVER" deliver a Champonship to the City of Houston.

I cannot say the same for Watson b/c he's only been saddled with the guy and staff I just vilified one paragraph up for his entire NFL career.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Isn't that exactly what OB has attempted to do with Watson ?

Smashing that square peg into the proverbial round hole.

Nope , if I was calling the shots for this offense , the offense would be built around what Watson does well which is exploit the edges and an accurate deep / deep middle ball.

Put him in play action and let him move around outside , force those DB's to commit and take advantage of what they give.

Has the added benefit of not needing an allstar OL working flawlessly ....
Guess I didn't make myself clear.
When we discussed QBs in the draft, I mentioned how Wilson Russell was a mobile QB in college, but he always looks to pass first. He played in a WCO at UNC before playing in a pro system at Wisconsin.
He uses his mobility when needed to complement his passing prowess.

I also said that Mahomes is similar in that regard. He may scramble around, but he knows where his receivers are and move in unison with his target(s).

When I said "becoming a better pocket passer" is to learn to play when in the pocket like Drew Brees, who can move within the pocket to avoid pressure to throw the ball.

In another word, learn Watson to use his skills to his advantage while minimizing his exposure to unecessary hits. He needs to learn to utilize his blockers, know where they are supposed to be on a certain protection call and move in unison with them.

I did say that Watson can play in a WCO system like Wilson.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
What I observed......OB decided to try and run out the clock after the Texans went up 7-0. Me, I thought it was just a tad early to shelve what successfully worked on that first scoring drive and move to a grind-it-out and burn-up-the-clock offense. But hey....that's what makes OB special.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Isn't that exactly what OB has attempted to do with Watson ?

Smashing that square peg into the proverbial round hole.

Nope , if I was calling the shots for this offense , the offense would be built around what Watson does well which is exploit the edges and an accurate deep / deep middle ball.

Put him in play action and let him move around outside , force those DB's to commit and take advantage of what they give.

Has the added benefit of not needing an allstar OL working flawlessly ....
Everyone keeps saying we need to see more play action. But the most effective fakes/play action plays come from under center.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Here is an interesting take. The difference between the Chiefs, Texans and their young QBs?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/scheme-and-sacks-might-be-all-that-separate-patrick-mahomes-and-deshaun-watson/
I do a search for NFL offensive line pass pro grade 2019 and found this website (the first one that comes up besides PFF).

They have the Chiefs at 19 and the Texans... dead last.

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If that's the case, when is OB, Devlin and his staff getting the axe? Correct the damm excuses.

Before I would "EVER" give OB another QB -that would represent a major hole in the head approach- to work with......I'd be giving Watson a new HC, OC and staff to work with. After 6 seasons of the same ol'-same ol' tickle, one thing we all know for certain is OB's methods "WILL NEVER" deliver a Champonship to the City of Houston.

I cannot say the same for Watson b/c he's only been saddled with the guy and staff I just vilified one paragraph up for his entire NFL career.
Good post

Depends on who you think has been saddled
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I was sharp,” Watson said. “I took what the defense gave me. They took away a lot of deep shots and I tried to give my guys some opportunities to make plays, and sometimes we capitalized and sometimes we didn't and we just have to continue to grow from there. I did what I needed to do to stay as close as possible and keep this team in reach to try and win the game.”

But according to NFL Next Gen Stats, Watson had a 69.2% completion percentage when targeting open receivers (at least three yards of separation), which is his second-lowest completion percentage in a game in his career. Last season, with Hopkins, Watson had an 86.7% completion percentage when targeting open receivers.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I was sharp,” Watson said. “I took what the defense gave me. They took away a lot of deep shots and I tried to give my guys some opportunities to make plays, and sometimes we capitalized and sometimes we didn't and we just have to continue to grow from there. I did what I needed to do to stay as close as possible and keep this team in reach to try and win the game.”

But according to NFL Next Gen Stats, Watson had a 69.2% completion percentage when targeting open receivers (at least three yards of separation), which is his second-lowest completion percentage in a game in his career. Last season, with Hopkins, Watson had an 86.7% completion percentage when targeting open receivers.
It doesn't matter that the receivers are open when the QB has to throw the ball away due to pressure (or has no time for an accurate pass).
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
It doesn't matter that the receivers are open when the QB has to throw the ball away due to pressure (or has no time for an accurate pass).
"'When targeting open receivers''.............translation: when the QB throws the ball to open receivers........period. I get it. Watson was "sharp" this game.......except for when he was pressured. You and he have a strange definition of "sharp" compared to mine. SMH
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
The RPO can be just as effective from the shotgun.
It is much more difficult to fake out the defense with play action from the shotgun. Not every QB has the moves to effectively deceive the opponent. Watson has never shown the ability to do so from the shotgun, let alone under center. Schaub is an example of a QB that could commonly fake out the broadcast cameras and TV broadcasters. Watson is not that QB.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
"'When targeting open receivers''.............translation: when the QB throws the ball to open receivers........period. I get it. Watson was "sharp" this game.......except for when he was pressured. You and he have a strange definition of "sharp" compared to mine. SMH
Watson's 12 "incompletions" and the sacks:
1. Fuller's drop.
2. Clark beats RT 71 like a drum, RG was pushed 7 yds back into the QB. On the other side, Tunsil and 25 couldn't contain the push of the RDE. There was no room for Watson in the pocket.
He had to throw the ball early, before the RB 31 can turn around to catch the ball.
It was third and ten. Even if DJ caught the ball, he would have been tackled by two defenders way short of the first down marker. That was pretty much a throw away to avoid the sack.
.................
Watson sacked by Jones and Okafor.
73 was juked out of his sock right off the bat. Nowhere for the QB to go.
........
3. First and ten at HTN 32 (1:26 left before the half)
Cook couldn't shake off the rookie CB down the right side line.
In fact, none of the receiver could get open.
The ball was right there, but well defended by the LCB. The safety also got there quickly.
Even if the ball was thrown better (to the outside of the receiver), the safety would have laid him out.
The LDE had beaten the RT around the edge and was about to get to Watson from behind.
There was no time to do anything else except taking the shot.
Nothing designed to help receivers get open against press-man coverage.
The RB stayed to block.
X tried to run a double move that the RCB didn't buy; he was like glue on the receiver.
Z ran a crossing route from the right slot and was double-teamed right off the bat; his route was cut off by the other safety.
TE ran a 5-yd hook with the defender step to step with him all the way.
....................
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
4. First and ten at HTN 47
Jones beat Fulton 73 like a rag doll.
No receiver opened. Watson tried to scramble but his linemen were in the way (LT and LG); he basically just threw the ball away just as the defenders 95 & 57 laid him out.
5. First and ten at KAN 33 (47 sec left)
The RT oddly let his man come in free.
Watson felt the pressure and moved to the other side.
Nobody was open and time was of the essence so he just threw the ball away.
(That was why the game transcript describes it as "Deshaun Watson pass incomplete deep left" without naming a receiver).
................

6. Next play.
The Chiefs sent a 5-man zone dog.
The left side failed to pick up the stunt. (Looking at you, Tunsil).
Watson couldn't throw the ball as pressure was coming at him unchecked.
He tried to get away from the rusher, who began chasing him.
Now in the middle, with two defenders boring on him from the front and the guy chasing him from the back.
Before getting pumeled by three defenders, Watson hurried a jump pass just off Duke's reach.
It wouldn't have matter as two DBs were ready to pounce.
.....................

7. Next play (before the FG attempt)
6-man pass rush.
It was third and 10 without much time left and bodies all around him, Watson took a shot.
But he had to be careful and throw the ball to the outside and a bit long, in hope that Fuller can get to it.
You may want a more accurate throw, but that wasn't going happen with the LDE stretching out his arm trying to bat the ball down.
Watson simply can't afford to flatten the trajectory of the ball.
................................................
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
2nd half.
3rd and 7 at midfield. Watson sacked for -2
71 was beaten badly by Clark 55. Watson was chased around by several defenders boun scrambled out of bound short of the LOS.
.....

4th Qtr

8. The interception where Fell felt victim to the Honey Badger.
It was not an inaccurate throw since his arm was hit.
.......

Watson sacked for no gain on 1st and 10 (10:22 in the 4th)
78 got beaten, then 74 let the defender slip through.
............

9. 1st and 10 at KAN 36 (9:09)
The line sprung leaks everywhere, but Watson manages to get off a pass that was promptly dropped by Still at the first down marker. The ball was right on his numbers.
...............

10. 3rd and 8 at KAN 34
Watson took a shot down the right side line.
Slow motion replay shows the ball to be right there; Still just mis-timed the jump/catch.
The ball just scrape over his outstretched alligator arms.
It was definitely a catchable ball.
No matter. Watson finished the drive with a TD pas to Aikins.
..............
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Watson sacked by DO'D for -5
The C 66 misteriously looked at his man straight in the eyes and told him "OK, I'll let you in now" and just move to the side to help out on the LG.
Watson had nowhere to go.
................

11.
1st and 9 at KAN 9 (3:11)
Watson lifted the ball a bit to avoid the outstretched arm of the pass rusher in the middle.
The ball was high and out of reach of Cobb in the back of the endzone.
There was really no accurate pass to be thrown there. If there was one, it would have been in the category of magic.
It was just first down; there was no need to force anything.
....

No matter, Watson scored a couple play later.
.................................

12.
2nd and 4 at HTN 31 with 6 seconds left.
Ball was thrown on time and right in there. Carter 14 simply dropped it.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
It is much more difficult to fake out the defense with play action from the shotgun. Not every QB has the moves to effectively deceive the opponent. Watson has never shown the ability to do so from the shotgun, let alone under center. Schaub is an example of a QB that could commonly fake out the broadcast cameras and TV broadcasters. Watson is not that QB.
You obviously don't know much about RPO, now do you?

And nobody said anything about Watson's being better at the play fake than Schaub in the play action pass.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I was sharp,” Watson said. “I took what the defense gave me. They took away a lot of deep shots and I tried to give my guys some opportunities to make plays, and sometimes we capitalized and sometimes we didn't and we just have to continue to grow from there. I did what I needed to do to stay as close as possible and keep this team in reach to try and win the game.”

But according to NFL Next Gen Stats, Watson had a 69.2% completion percentage when targeting open receivers (at least three yards of separation), which is his second-lowest completion percentage in a game in his career. Last season, with Hopkins, Watson had an 86.7% completion percentage when targeting open receivers.

Throwing the rest of the team under the proverbial bus while taking no responsibility ....

I did what I needed to do.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
You obviously don't know much about RPO, now do you?

And nobody said anything about Watson's being better at the play fake than Schaub in the play action pass.
I know plenty about RPO..........and certainly enough to know my statement is valid.

This is the last post of yours that I will be responding to. I'm not ''sharp'' enough to keep up with all of your unbiased analyses............certainly not as "sharp'' as you and Watson.
 

ColeThornton

Waterboy
I was sharp,” Watson said. “I took what the defense gave me. They took away a lot of deep shots and I tried to give my guys some opportunities to make plays, and sometimes we capitalized and sometimes we didn't and we just have to continue to grow from there. I did what I needed to do to stay as close as possible and keep this team in reach to try and win the game.”

But according to NFL Next Gen Stats, Watson had a 69.2% completion percentage when targeting open receivers (at least three yards of separation), which is his second-lowest completion percentage in a game in his career. Last season, with Hopkins, Watson had an 86.7% completion percentage when targeting open receivers.
And today Hopkins had a career high 14 catches. They accounted for almost 2/3 of the Cardinals reception yardage. Once again he opened up the field for his teammates as he was double and tripled and responsible for at least one critical first down when he was held. The Cardinals offense won with their 2nd year QB and 2nd year HC as they went on the road and played inspired football against the defending NFC champs.

Of course the Texans without Hopkins and with their 7th year HC and 2nd highest paid QB in the league were embarrassed 31-7 before trash time arrived. I don't know what the rest of the season will bring... but from what I saw, in game one, the Cardinals must be thrilled to have Hopkins and for the Texans he is already missed.

"Grateful"
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I know plenty about RPO..........and certainly enough to know my statement is valid.

This is the last post of yours that I will be responding to. I'm not ''sharp'' enough to keep up with all of your unbiased analyses............certainly not as "sharp'' as you and Watson.
Valid how?
The two concepts were designed to achieve certain thing. There's nothing that is best or better.
That's why you see the RPO gaining popularity these days.
You cannot use play action pass all the time because the D won't bite.
 
And today Hopkins had a career high 14 catches. They accounted for almost 2/3 of the Cardinals reception yardage. Once again he opened up the field for his teammates as he was double and tripled and responsible for at least one critical first down when he was held. The Cardinals offense won with their 2nd year QB and 2nd year HC as they went on the road and played inspired football against the defending NFC champs.

Of course the Texans without Hopkins and with their 7th year HC and 2nd highest paid QB in the league were embarrassed 31-7 before trash time arrived. I don't know what the rest of the season will bring... but from what I saw, in game one, the Cardinals must be thrilled to have Hopkins and for the Texans he is already missed.

"Grateful"
It makes me sick knowing that we should have had Hopkins. He made but chin and his offense look better than it is.
 

Earl34

Veteran
When it comes to offenses and Qb's, BO'b makes me think of Jeff Fisher.
He reminds me of Brian Billick. A former OC for one of the better, more explosive NFL offenses, gets a HC job and then runs one of the worst, unimaginative offenses in the NFL. Fortunately for Ravens' fans, Billick had a great GM who drafted a great defense and RB. Texans' fans are not that fortunate.
 
Last edited:

mws

Waterboy
Between the 2 press conferences I would say Johnson seemed a lot more animated than Watson.

Watson seemed quieter & more defensive than I remember seeing him before.

As much a I don't like Billy O I have to give him credit for usually being able to control the message the Texans put out publicly.

I wonder if this could be an indication of the first small cracks in the locker room?
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Between the 2 press conferences I would say Johnson seemed a lot more animated than Watson.

Watson seemed quieter & more defensive than I remember seeing him before.

As much a I don't like Billy O I have to give him credit for usually being able to control the message the Texans put out publicly.

I wonder if this could be an indication of the first small cracks in the locker room?
He seemed the same to me. Quiet and direct.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
First virtual post game is gonna be weird for everyone. DW4 didn’t sound any different that usual. Same reporters. Same questions. New year.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
David Johnson is freaking ‘swo. Very well spoken. Repeating the company line blocking and breaking tackles. He’s happy to be relevant again. Hopefully he stays healthy.

Some of those questions were dumb. What are his thoughts on Ravens offense?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame


Fwiw.


Fwiw.
Besides the pass that our safety dropped (INT worthy pass by Mahomes), we also had an INT called back when Robey was flagged for PI.
Mahomes missed a TD when he threw the ball a bit short such that his receiver had to slow down a hair, allowing Reid to get back and defend it (he had his hand/arm over the top of the receiver's right hand/arm.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Besides the pass that our safety dropped (INT worthy pass by Mahomes), we also had an INT called back when Robey was flagged for PI.
Mahomes missed a TD when he threw the ball a bit short such that his receiver had to slow down a hair, allowing Reid to get back and defend it (he had his hand/arm over the top of the receiver's right hand/arm.
Receivers (Robinson) also dropped a couple of TD's too.

Trying to say DW4 outplayed Mahomes in that game is laughable.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Man y'all are trying to hard to make DW4 look like he's in the same league as Mahomes. I know 2 TD's were dropped and I'm pretty sure if I re-watched the game I could find a couple of more drops.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Man y'all are trying to hard to make DW4 look like he's in the same league as Mahomes. I know 2 TD's were dropped and I'm pretty sure if I re-watched the game I could find a couple of more drops.
You no more know that than a man on the moon. This statement obviously takes nothing else into consideration except the final result. How did the final result arrive?

Are you stating that OB is in the same league as Reid?

Are you stating the OB offensive game plan is in the same league as the Chiefs?

Are you stating that the Texans personnel is at the same level across the board?

Are you stating that OB’s in game adjustments are in the same league as Reid’s?

Take the time out and answer these questions independently....and without using Watson’s name In any answer. I’m sure everyone on this board will be curious to see your answers.
 


Top