Right.
And something I left out of my previous reply to Dale, I don't pity any young healthy millionaire
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Texans hire Bill O'Brien as HC
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
Right.
And something I left out of my previous reply to Dale, I don't pity any young healthy millionaire
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Now he can prove them wrong.
Value is subjective. The fact that the new regime does not value AJ skill set differently than he would like... or differently than the previous regime is not something for fans to freak out about.
By the way, the Texans did not publicly insult him by releasing this "reduced role" conversation. They didn't even leak it. This is public only because AJ and his agent released the conversation. The Texans have remained respectfully silent.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I am not joyful about AJ leaving. I am thrilled that the organization is exercising wisdom in ways it hasn't in previous years. I'm not sure what my affinity for Kubiak has to do with this issue... I stated in 2010 that a head coach change made sense and I wouldn't object to it. After 2013, I was on board that a change was definitely needed. I certainly have not slammed Aj's lack of productivity... I am arguing that his productivity is not what the team needs now. They are looking for more explosiveness and are wanting to disperse the productivity out among a group of players instead of relying so heavily on AJ.
houstonspartan
All Pro
Last year, I said that, as fans, we have to be prepared to lose our favorite players, because it was likely that O'Brien was going to eventually gut this roster. A lot of people disagreed with me.
I think O'Brien has a very specific vision, and he is willing to do whatever it takes to bring that vision to reality.
He is going to chop this roster down, burn it down, tear it up, blow it up, and churn players as much as he needs to until he gets EXACTLY what he wants.
This is just the beginning.
I hope they've got enough gnads to flat out say, "Chris, take a pay cut, or we're going to cut you."
Or, "We're going in a new direction & you don't fit."
OR, "It's not you... it's me."
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Agreed and repped.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Going to agree with Texian on this one. If they were going to go this route, should have done it last year.
They new regime had to show the players who was in charge last year. This year that action just makes them look indecisive. (Or in Texans Talk parlance, wishy-washy).
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
AJ was a year younger last year, Hopkins was less proven, and the dead money was steeper. Nothing looked indecisive. OBrien was very clear that he wanted AJ with the team last year during his holdout. This off-season, he delivered an equally clear message- that AJ isn't at the center of their plans for 2015 and 2016. Indecisive is the last word I would use to describe OBrien.
How about O'Brien increase offensive flexibility with a GD better QB??
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Sorry wrong thread.
Last edited:
Your admiration for sitting Texans head coaches is well known. Just about any negative word about O'Brien would be the last you would use. Frankly, that makes me view your takes on O'Brien with a grain of salt - they can come across more like hero worship than reasoned arguments. That's why I generally avoid engaging you in discussion anymore; you quoted me though so here I am.
For the record I think O'Brien has done a good job so far. There are only three things I question him on:
1) Sticking with Fitzpatrick too long last year, leading to...
2) ...possibly relying too much on an unproven Mallett this season. I say possibly because free agency and the draft have yet to play out.
3) Creating another hole in the roster by letting Andre go for some salary cap relief, resulting in a situation that will probably end up using more resources to resolve in the end.
Other than that, I think he's done very well. Best case scenario is that this decision doesn't end up hurting the Texans growth next year. I think it is more likely it does hold them back - using resources to replace Andre's production seems a waste with so many other holes in the lineup.
Growth... I'm not looking forward to what that's going to look like next season. I get the feeling OB's going to be in "build" mode & not "win" mode, meaning McNair sold us a bill of goods.
Again.
& I fell for it.
Again.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I was never a Capers fan.
I liked Kubiak and rooted for him.
I respect OBrien and believe he is a great coach... I never said that about the other two.
I predict the Texans offense will score more points and have more passing yards
Than they did in 2014... I don't expect one player to replace AJs production. I expect the TEs will catch more passes, WR3 and WR4 will have larger roles, and AJs replacement will have a much better yards per catch than 11.
houstonspartan
All Pro
lol. you're completely downplaying your Kubiak worship. I guess that's easy to do in hindsight, since you were 100% wrong about him.
But, whatever.
I bet Andre will avg more than 11 ypc in 2015 as well.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Over under on TDs?
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Well we all saw what AJ did with Case at QB, and even how much better he looked with Mallet at QB. With a good QB he will be a 1300+ 10TD+ WR easily IMO. He may not have the downfield speed he used to have but he hasn't lost anything else. And he still has a damn good double move which was rarely used last season.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
Yup. AJ is still better than 90% of the WR's out there. Hell he is still the best receiver we have/had. I don't know what the fudge O'Brien was thinking.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I'm not sure what team would bring him in at a #1 in terms of targets, so expecting that he would still get the 165 targets a season average that was getting him 100/1300 seasons. I expect that he will be a #2 and will get in that 120-130 target range that will probably result in something around 85/1100, which puts him at 13 YPC. I would take that any day of the week and twice in Sunday.
But 1300 yards? 10 TD's? That is a lot of targets. What team is going to give him that many targets? Look at the Colts, which is for some reason where so many on this board want him to go. TY Hilton had 1350 yards for the Colts last season but was only targeted 130 times, leading the team. He got the yardage because he was a burner and averaged 16.4 YPC.
New England? Their leading receiver in receptions, targets AND YPC was a TE. Both of their starting WR's had 2014 AJ type of numbers. And that was by design. I can't see AJ going into that situation and being targeted 150+ times.
Denver? Didn't they just put the franchise tag on Thomas? Is Sanders leaving? Both put up seasons last year that rivaled AJ's in his prime.
Seattle? Two words: Russell Wilson
I can definitely envision him going somewhere with a much better chance to win a Super Bowl now as compared to the Texans, but I'm not seeing where he can do that AND be in a position to post 100/1300/10 type of numbers. I can see where he can go in as a solid #2 and put up a very valuable 85/1100 type numbers. I'll have to dig up the numbers from a post I made much earlier in this thread, but many of his peers on the all-time list had 85/1100 seasons at the age of 34. No shame in those numbers at all.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
My whole assumption is that there are many teams with elite QBs in need of a solid WR. AJ can still get open, don't be fooled by thinking he has declined so much from his 1400 yard season. Fitz just often didn't look his way last season. 10+TDs is not out of reach with some of these gun slingers.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Agree that he can still get open. Agree that he is still a solid WR. He is strong enough to fight for the ball and is a clutch receiver. I don't hold to the notion that this past season is what he is moving forward, but I am also realistic to not hold to the notion that he is going to put up a 100/1300/10 season if his goal is to play for a legitimate contender. What I think is that with a good QB his yardage will go up from the 925 he had this past season, but that he would still be in the 85-90 range on receptions.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Which fine with that, AJ just doesn't view himself as a 40 catch a season guy, and i agree with him. This dude can break top 5 in a lot of NFL WR all time categories, why would he want to limit the last few good years of his career.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I think we all agree - including everyone from McNair to the waterboy - that no one views AJ as a 40 catch a season guy. That phrase, and the various and sundry interpretations and suppositions as to the context in which it was used, are simply the left hand distracting us while the right hand is counting the coins in the piggy bank.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Yep, i would of liked to hear AJ laugh at O'brien when he told him he would be a 40 catch guy.
Gotta watch that right hand.
Agreed on #1-2.
3. We shall see, if the Texans fill 2-3 needs with AJ's $$$$ in FA and hit a homerun with a drafted WR then I would disagree. So what you're saying is you have very little faith in the Texans FO filling these needs in FA/Draft? Have a little faith in Smith/BOB. Vitriol?
It is hardly vitriolic to consider if replacing Dre outweighs the cost savings of cutting him. However, it is good to see that my use of "vitriol" yesterday made such an impact on you.
If he brings success, then all of this will be genius in hindsight.
However, Houston fans have short fuses right now, and this A.J. situation is lighting many of those fuses.
It will certainly get ugly if the Texans go into a "rebuild slump" for a couple of seasons.
Yep. And if we are honest about evaluating the 2014 season, it came down to two players: J.J. and Arian Foster.
Without Foster's production, this is a 5 win team last year, at best. O'Brien had better hope and prepare for Foster's eventual decline as an NFL RB. It usually happens fairly quickly, too.
And personally, from here on out, when Bob McNaire spews nonsense about "legacy player" and "retire a Texan" regarding J.J. Watt, I'll consider it more marketing propaganda that has as much weight as a worthless politician. Billion Dollar Bob is now just like the other 31 owners to me. Money before integrity, bullshit before honesty. I feel kinda' stupid for believing his crapola all these years. I knew better, too, but wanted to have just a sliver of idealism in a mercenary sport. No more of that delusion. It is what it is. Go laundry!
Many elite QB's? That's an oxymoron
List all these elite QB's in need of a 34 yr old WR to get them over the hump will ya?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
And where is he supposed to get this QB? You think he has Joe Montana sitting in his closet at 26 years old or something? Other than #1 draft picks from last season hr hasn't had a good shot at any good QBs. There aren't any in FA, and there likely won't be any in the draft.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Agreed.
I don't understand all the flack that OB received for trotting Fitz out there.
Who else was available? All the criticism he got for naming Fitz the starter was unwarranted.
I am on OBs bandwagon until proven otherwise.
And all the flack he is receiving concerning AJ? AJ acted like a spoiled brat last year and I think that sealed his fate this year. I like AJ but I think OB is sending a message. It's a team sport. OTA's are for everybody.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
I will give credit to OB for making some passable chicken salad out of chicken **** last year. Not sure if a completely useless draft class was his fault or Rick Smith's.
Hopefully he doesn't fall into the trap Josh McDaniels did, cutting a lot of fat, but eventually cutting so much that you pissed off everyone on the roster.
Hopefully he doesn't fall into the trap Josh McDaniels did, cutting a lot of fat, but eventually cutting so much that you pissed off everyone on the roster.
And what did your glorious QB guru do to address the sad QB situation last season? As you said, with the first overall pick, he had his pick of ANY QB in the draft. He could have made a trade for Mallet in time for OTAs and training camp if that's who he really wanted? Why wait? He could have gotten him pre-draft for a 3rd or a 4th.
Who would have made more sense to spend that 3rd round pick on, Fiedorowicz or Mallet?
Because Mallett was on the last year of his contract, it would have been imperative that he was willing to sign an extension if you're going to be giving up a third or a fourth.
As a matter of fact, the way things are looking now, I wouldn't be surprised to find out we did have a trade in place for Mallett that included Andre Johnson had Mallett been open to signing an extension.
OB's attempt to "push" Andre out the door may be to prep him for a trade to New England, to pay Belichick back.
GNTLEWOLF
Rookie
MSR
That whole Fitz thing last year, for me, cast a long shadow on the O'Brien hire. I still feel the jury is out on him as a HC , even though the team performed much better than I has anticipated. However, considering that they did play the easiest schedule in the NFL, I can't give him much credit.
On to the offseason; I am not very upset that the team is moving on from Andre. I have been seeing the need to start doing that for a couple years now. The problems with the move , as I see them, are 1) the way that Andre was told seemed to me to be very much without class, and 2) who do we have, or who do we have a realistic shot of getting to replace him?
Interesting reach... based on?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
But did you spew "vitriol"? Without the spew, vitriol loses its impact.
In related news, Bill O'Brien has still been hired as HC.
Sorry, Bill. This thread will never die.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Considering only one made it over the hump last season, let's see what teams QBs could use AJ to help get them over the hump.
Elite who may need him
Manning (Losing some guys)
Rodgers (No Cobb)
Brady (No real playmaking WRs)
Flacco (They need some WRs)
Luck (Need help)
Drew Brees
Quality who may need him
Cam Newton
Stafford
Ryan Tannehill
Phillip Rivers
All these QBs could use another starting WR like AJ to potentially get them over the hump.
I don't consider Flacco to be elite...
Denver just had to put the franchise tag on Thomas and have a ton of their own free agents to sign...
Even so, I hardly consider 5/32 to be many. That was the point I was trying to get across, that there wasn't many elite qb's in the game right now.
Manning may have another year, no more than two.
Brees is about done
The quality you mentioned, I would really only consider Rivers to be a high quality starter
That would be Happy Valley.