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Texans hire Bill O'Brien as HC

I wanna know if O'Brien has a fist that pops out of that that chin of his. Do you think that is his pen holder?
 
JB said:
So, in other words, you don't have a clue...

I seriously doubt that any first time NFL head coaching candidate anywhere has walked into a job interview and told the prospective employer that he demanded complete and utter control of all football operations.. " OR I'LL STAY AT PODUNK U!!!!!"
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No, in other words I am pretty confidant that a high profile perspective NFL HC is going to want to make as money as they can with as much control as they can negotiate. Understand that most all perspective NFL HC are the ones being pursued so it is seller's (Head Coach's) market. As far as Shaw and O'Brien they could decide to stay at Podunk U. It might not be the first time they've made that decision. OR they could also decide to go to an NFL team that pays more AND offers them full control of player personnel. A lesser NFL HC profile or a "a last chance" candidate might better fit your expectations for a HC demands.
 
Texian said:
No, in other words I am pretty confidant that a high profile perspective NFL HC is going to want to make as money as they can with as much control as they can negotiate. Understand that most all perspective NFL HC are the ones being pursued so it is seller's (Head Coach's) market. As far as Shaw and O'Brien they could decide to stay at Podunk U. It might not be the first time they've made that decision. OR they could also decide to go to an NFL team that pays more AND offers them full control of player personnel. A lesser NFL HC profile or a "a last chance" candidate might better fit your expectations for a HC demands.
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Name 1 First Time NFL Head Coaching Prospect that has gone in and demanded full control of football operations, let alone top dollar long term contract.
 
JB said:
Name 1 First Time NFL Head Coaching Prospect that has gone in and demanded full control of football operations, let alone top dollar long term contract.
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Should we start with Kubiak? How about Carroll? Johnson? Parcels? Belichick? Fisher? Spurrier?
 
Texian said:
Should we start with Kubiak? How about Carroll? Johnson? Parcels? Belichick? Fisher? Spurrier?
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Kubiak did not come in demanding full control and none of the others were first time head coaches...
 
JB said:
Name 1 First Time NFL Head Coaching Prospect that has gone in and demanded full control of football operations, let alone top dollar long term contract.
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Here's the point JB. Come Monday there could be 6 openings to be an NFL HC. Now let's assume that 2 of those job openings the HC could negotiate for full control and 4 job openings the FO has full control. Perspective head coaches first choices will be with the teams that offer the most control.
 
jaayteetx said:
Because coaches have never said one thing then did another...
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Coaches always say the right things about those who are delivering their current paycheck. Love the one you're with. If they didn't their two week notice would be on the way.
 
The one thing he hasn't accomplished at Stanford is a national title. Next year the NCAA starts a playoff format. With the strong statement he made on Dec 17th (the link) it is a real possibility he may want to wait a year or two and see if he can bring that championship trophy to his alma matre.

O'Brien would be an acceptable second choice for me.
 
Texans interested in O'Brien? Why? I don't see how he's emerged as a hot NFL NC candidate.

I'm especially leery of ex NE coordinators.
 
Texian said:
Here's the point JB. Come Monday there could be 6 openings to be an NFL HC. Now let's assume that 2 of those job openings the HC could negotiate for full control and 4 job openings the FO has full control. Perspective head coaches first choices will be with the teams that offer the most control.
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The Texans job is rated as top opportunity in many circles according to the sources of some. Point I've been trying to get across is that I don't think that any have full control in either direction. It has to be a symbiotic relationship
 
Goldensilence said:
Texans interested in O'Brien? Why? I don't see how he's emerged as a hot NFL NC candidate.

I'm especially leery of ex NE coordinators.
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No one gets excited over a re-tread, and O'Brien is (along with Shaw) the media appointed next college to pro wonder coach. You have to give him his props for turning a no-win situation into a win at Penn State.
 
Texian said:
Belichick, Carroll, Kubiak (had), Shanahan for strarters.
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I meant of the upcoming jobs for a first year head coach... I just don't think it's going to happen. I think for you to rule OBrien out for that is silly. I don't think he will ask for it and I don't think any team would grant it.
 
JB said:
I meant of the upcoming jobs for a first year head coach... I just don't think it's going to happen. I think for you to rule OBrien out for that is silly. I don't think he will ask for it and I don't think any team would grant it.
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Many teams will grant it if they really like the guy they got. Hell, Denver granted it for McDaniels who butchered up an up and coming hot team when he was hired. Kubiak got it here, just because he wasn't Capers and because he sold Mcnair on his "system" where he needed all of these Denver guys initially. BB has full control as well, but if he didn't have Brady his NE teams wouldn't be anywhere near as good, but he has kept control because of his success even though he really isn't that great as a GM. He is probably average. Guys get control for all different types of reasons, but NFL owners will give it up to the coach if they truly believe in their vision.
 
Hervoyel said:
If that's the way it's played now then we need to play that way. Either it's illegal and it's penalized or they ignore it and it is time the Texans got good at doing it.

It's time to win consistently and Belichick's team is one of the few that wins consistently. If he walked out of there and announced that his services were for sale I'd hire him immediately.
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But if the Texans start doing it, it WILL be called. But only against the Texans. Broncos, Patriots and other flavors of the month would never get that called. That's my problem with the Officials being too cozy with the NFL honchos.
 
TexansFight said:
I'm so happy that we have or will be interviewing Coach O'Brien. I hope Bob pulls the trigger on him. I have said it before, I think O'Brien will be an elite NFL head coach and will be the guy to lead us to the promised land of a Super Bowl.
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Not even Moses could lead us to the promised land. I AM is the one who leads and I don't think he's choosing sides.
 
BoB is going to give Rick control.

BoB may or may not go cheap on his HC. (Probably cheap) If he doesn't go cheap on his HC I garuntee you he will go cheap on asst coaches. BoB has never paid for a top notch Asst coach, until Wade because he liked Gary and wanted to do everything possible to save Gary.

I expect a Lovie/Whisenhunt type HC hire.
 
steelbtexan said:
BoB is going to give Rick control.

BoB may or may not go cheap on his HC. (Probably cheap) If he doesn't go cheap on his HC I garuntee you he will go cheap on asst coaches. BoB has never paid for a top notch Asst coach, until Wade because he liked Gary and wanted to do everything possible to save Gary.

I expect a Lovie/Whisenhunt type HC hire.
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I hope you're wrong. I also hope that Mike Sherman is not a candidate
 
steelbtexan said:
BoB is going to give Rick control.

BoB may or may not go cheap on his HC. (Probably cheap) If he doesn't go cheap on his HC I garuntee you he will go cheap on asst coaches. BoB has never paid for a top notch Asst coach, until Wade because he liked Gary and wanted to do everything possible to save Gary.

I expect a Lovie/Whisenhunt type HC hire.
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damn SB I've got to head back into the garage to pilfer my reserves to quench my depression :drunk:
 
Marshall said:
But if the Texans start doing it, it WILL be called. But only against the Texans. Broncos, Patriots and other flavors of the month would never get that called. That's my problem with the Officials being too cozy with the NFL honchos.
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This ain't the NBA. The Raiders ran the same play against us for a TD.

Believe it or not but the league isn't out to screw the Texans, we do that to ourselves.
 
steelbtexan said:
BoB may or may not go cheap on his HC. (Probably cheap) If he doesn't go cheap on his HC I garuntee you he will go cheap on asst coaches. BoB has never paid for a top notch Asst coach, until Wade because he liked Gary and wanted to do everything possible to save Gary.
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So which is it, did the HCs pick their coordinators or did McNair limit their selections? You've been complaining for years about Kubiak's poor selection of coordinators so what is your information they actually wanted someone else and McNair said no?
 
Texian said:
Yes there is some supposition on my part. It is based on fact that I have never heard of any perspective head coach say, pay me a couple of million less than I can negotiate and give me as little control over the roster and players as possible. To the contrary, basic human behavior indicates perspective head coaches will want to make as much money as possible with as much control over players and rosters as they can get. That's what makes them attractive head coaches.
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There's nothing to indicate Shaw can negotiate a $7M/yr salary. Even if he were, there's nothing to indicate Bob won't pay it. There is also nothing to indicate that Shaw wants complete control of personnel, or that Bob is unwilling to give it up.

& we have no idea what Rick Smith's role will be in the future.

Texian said:
Unless the front office has reversed course since whining to NFLN about coaches having to much control, I have no reason to believe this position has changed.
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Rick Smith can whine all he wants. He's not calling the shots here, never has & most likely never will. Just because Rick is unhappy doesn't mean he will get more control.
 
Texian said:
Should we start with Kubiak? How about Carroll? Johnson? Parcels? Belichick? Fisher? Spurrier?
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Belichick did not have full control of football operations in Cleveland.

Carroll didn't have full control in New England. Fisher got stuck with Vince because he didn't have full control in Tennessee. Johnson? Jimi? You've got to be kidding.

Kubiak had final say of the 53. Not the same as full control of football operations.


& before you counter, remember... he said first time head coach. Far as I can remember, Kubiak is the only one that comes to mind & it was only of the 53 man roster. I don't know what kind of control Spurrier had.

I also don't think Parcels had full control of the Giants, but that's going way back.
 
steelbtexan said:
BoB may or may not go cheap on his HC. (Probably cheap) If he doesn't go cheap on his HC I garuntee you he will go cheap on asst coaches. BoB has never paid for a top notch Asst coach, until Wade because he liked Gary and wanted to do everything possible to save Gary.
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Uh... Bob hired Sherman as a Kubiak safety blanket in the very beginning.
 
TexansSeminole said:
This ain't the NBA. The Raiders ran the same play against us for a TD.

Believe it or not but the league isn't out to screw the Texans, we do that to ourselves.
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I don't believe that. I've seen too many ticky tacky fouls called against us (particularly Kareem and special teams) and blatant fouls not called against the NFL front office favorites. But it's not just us, it's anybody the NFL Marketing Department deems unworthy.

That's why I loved the replacement officials. They might not have been perfect, but they were even handed.
 
Marshall said:
I don't believe that. I've seen too many ticky tacky fouls called against us (particularly Kareem and special teams) and blatant fouls not called against the NFL front office favorites. But it's not just us, it's anybody the NFL Marketing Department deems unworthy.

That's why I loved the replacement officials. They might not have been perfect, but they were even handed.
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This is a foolish statement.

Houston is one of their biggest markets, one of their most valuable franchises.

I see us letting our mid-talent walk year after year, making terrible picks I. The middle rounds of the draft, holding on to players too long after they go downhill, failing to manage injuries, making bad calls in FA, failing to rotate our players leaving them gassed at the end of games when every drive matters, I could go on.

You aren't hearing the NFL leak stories all the time about moving the Texans to LA or London. The NFL wants the Texans to be a powerhouse because it's good for business. You can't just throw around statements like that and see what sticks.
 
welsh texan said:
This is a foolish statement.

Houston is one of their biggest markets, one of their most valuable franchises.

I see us letting our mid-talent walk year after year, making terrible picks I. The middle rounds of the draft, holding on to players too long after they go downhill, failing to manage injuries, making bad calls in FA, failing to rotate our players leaving them gassed at the end of games when every drive matters, I could go on.

You aren't hearing the NFL leak stories all the time about moving the Texans to LA or London. The NFL wants the Texans to be a powerhouse because it's good for business. You can't just throw around statements like that and see what sticks.
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Certainly, I don't think there is a conspiracy. However, the NFL has created an atmosphere that lends itself to "Michael Jordan rules"... So many subjective decisions have been placed at the feet of the officials that there is an unavoidable tendency to skew calls towards the teams/players with the greatest reputations. Without a doubt, most referees will be quicker to throw "roughing the passer" when Brady/Manning/Brees get brushed against than Keenum/Pryor/Locker/etc...

That being said, we are 2-13 this year, not because of the NFL, but because we played inconsistently the first six weeks of the season, did not handle adversity well, and then cratered or quit about 6 weeks ago.
 
As I was researching O'brien's bio, I was suddenly deflated as I cam across this name (a RB he coached at Georgia Tech): Tony Hollings.... One of the names, long since forgotten, that belongs in the Texan Hall of Shame along with (Boselli, Carr, Weaver, Buchanan, Ryan Young, Joppru, Charles Spencer, J.Mathis, Ahman Green, Eric Moulds, Seth Wand, Amobi Okoye, Petey Faggins)- nothing against some of those guys, but it is a list that tells a story of woe, that's for sure, and Hollings name had slipped from my memory until 15 minutes ago. Thanks Bill O'Brien!
 
thunderkyss said:
Uh... Bob hired Sherman as a Kubiak safety blanket in the very beginning.
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Sherman was Gary's choice and it took Sherman a few days to make up his mind after getting fired from Green Bay. It was Gary who made the comments that he wanted Sherman because of his HC experience. Gary eventually got his man in every coaching hire with the one exception of Wade. Wade was a Bob hire.
 
welsh texan said:
This is a foolish statement.

Houston is one of their biggest markets, one of their most valuable franchises.

I see us letting our mid-talent walk year after year, making terrible picks I. The middle rounds of the draft, holding on to players too long after they go downhill, failing to manage injuries, making bad calls in FA, failing to rotate our players leaving them gassed at the end of games when every drive matters, I could go on.

You aren't hearing the NFL leak stories all the time about moving the Texans to LA or London. The NFL wants the Texans to be a powerhouse because it's good for business. You can't just throw around statements like that and see what sticks.
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That is MY observation. You may disagree without telling me I can't express MY observation. In fact. that is what this board is for. I challenge you to look at the recordings and not see what I saw. Many times Kareem would look back and still get called. Perhaps because he uses his eyes more with a subtle head turn and doesn't make the dramatic head turn some other backs do or perhaps because the officials no longer feel they need to give us equal treatment because we're no longer a flavor of the month team.

I do not dispute the reasons for our decline are more along the lines of your response, but my statement is about another factor, not the only factor.
 
steelbtexan said:
Uh...... You consider Sherman to be a top notch OC/OL coach?

Did you see the Dolphins offense last Sunday. Sherman fit the Friends of Gary description.
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At the time, we all considered hiring Sherman a huge get. You know what they say about hindsight...
 
Texian said:
Belichick, Carroll, Kubiak (had), Shanahan for strarters.
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Texian said:
Should we start with Kubiak? How about Carroll? Johnson? Parcels? Belichick? Fisher? Spurrier?
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Exaggerating a bit. Kubiak, yes. Main reasoning though is he had an owner uneducated in how the league plays and who had meetings with Kubiak and Smith as he learned his way. Easy to say at this point McNair is no longer uneducated in that department.

Belichik did not have full authority. In fact, some of the more bigger moves he got approval from Art Modell before hand. His first coaching was with the Browns after all. He had say but not some mystical full authority. All coaches have some say in personnel unless under a GM with an iron hand which is more rare than often.

Carroll also did not have full authority. His first coaching job was with the Patriots. His experiences with the Patriots and the power issues there is what caused him requesting more in Seattle.

Shanny did not have full authority either. It was one of the issues. His first job was with the Raiders. He and Al Davis butted heads often and frequently hence his short time period there.

Previous you named Spurrier who also didn't have full authority and even got overridden by Snyder. Fisher didn't either as that wasn't a case that happened with a Bud Adams team.

Coaches generally have input on personnel and that won't change. Only the most heavy handed GM's and owners would make it their sole responsibility and that is rare in this league. So no, the common stance is coaches have strong input on personnel and they choose their own staff.

Also I believe a point was brought McNair would be cheap in regards to staff (though again staff is chosen by the head coach 9 times out of 10). The Texans are one of the top teams in money spent. McNair is hardly cheap. Last time the listing came out we were 7th in this area.
 
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deucetx said:
Exaggerating a bit. Kubiak, yes. Main reasoning though is he had an owner uneducated in how the league plays and who had meetings with Kubiak and Smith as he learned his way. Easy to say at this point McNair is no longer uneducated in that department.

Belichik did not have full authority. In fact, some of the more bigger moves he got approval from Art Modell before hand. His first coaching was with the Browns after all. He had say but not some mystical full authority. All coaches have some say in personnel unless under a GM with an iron hand which is more rare than often.

Carroll also did not have full authority. His first coaching job was with the Patriots. His experiences with the Patriots and the power issues there is what caused him requesting more in Seattle.

Shanny did not have full authority either. It was one of the issues. His first job was with the Raiders. He and Al Davis butted heads often and frequently hence his short time period there.

Previous you named Spurrier who also didn't have full authority and even got overridden by Snyder. Fisher didn't either as that wasn't a case that happened with a Bud Adams team.

Coaches generally have input on personnel and that won't change. Only the most heavy handed GM's and owners would make it their sole responsibility and that is rare in this league. So no, the common stance is coaches have strong input on personnel and they choose their own staff.

Also I believe a point was brought McNair would be cheap in regards to staff (though again staff is chosen by the head coach 9 times out of 10). The Texans are one of the top teams in money spent. McNair is hardly cheap. Last time the listing came out we were 7th in this area.
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Tell us who did have control then.
 
thunderkyss said:
There's nothing to indicate Shaw can negotiate a $7M/yr salary. Even if he were, there's nothing to indicate Bob won't pay it. There is also nothing to indicate that Shaw wants complete control of personnel, or that Bob is unwilling to give it up.

& we have no idea what Rick Smith's role will be in the future.



Rick Smith can whine all he wants. He's not calling the shots here, never has & most likely never will. Just because Rick is unhappy doesn't mean he will get more control.
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Please tell us what head coach asked for less money, less control, accountability and responsibility. So if Rick Smith is to remain a nobody are you saying that Bob McNair is going Jerry Jones? Who was last owner prior to McNair to fire a head coach in season?
 
steelbtexan said:
Uh...... You consider Sherman to be a top notch OC/OL coach?

Did you see the Dolphins offense last Sunday. Sherman fit the Friends of Gary description.
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Well, your exact comment was Bob has never paid for a top notch assistant, and the point was clearly that he's too cheap, as it followed your guarantee he would go cheap on assistants. I would say that given his demand and resume at the time, Sherman clearly contradicts your comment. So did Alex Gibbs and Ray Rhodes for that matter.

Once again your eagerness to hate has squashed your ability to intelligently evaluate.
 
deucetx said:
Exaggerating a bit. Kubiak, yes. Main reasoning though is he had an owner uneducated in how the league plays and who had meetings with Kubiak and Smith as he learned his way. Easy to say at this point McNair is no longer uneducated in that department.
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Kubiak was unusual also in that McNair was relying heavily on Dan Reeves in how to restart the team.
 
ChampionTexan said:
Well, your exact comment was Bob has never paid for a top notch assistant, and the point was clearly that he's too cheap, as it followed your guarantee he would go cheap on assistants. I would say that given his demand and resume at the time, Sherman clearly contradicts your comment. So did Alex Gibbs and Ray Rhodes for that matter.

Once again your eagerness to hate has squashed your ability to intelligently evaluate.
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Gibbs was well paid and rightfully so, tell me was Sherman highly paid? I dont think so.

Was Rhodes highly paid? Probably not.
 
I don't think it's fair to call McNair cheap. Has he trusted the wrong people or made bad decisions? Yes. But I don't think cheap is a fair criticism.
 
dalemurphy said:
As I was researching O'brien's bio, I was suddenly deflated as I cam across this name (a RB he coached at Georgia Tech): Tony Hollings.... One of the names, long since forgotten, that belongs in the Texan Hall of Shame along with (Boselli, Carr, Weaver, Buchanan, Ryan Young, Joppru, Charles Spencer, J.Mathis, Ahman Green, Eric Moulds, Seth Wand, Amobi Okoye, Petey Faggins)- nothing against some of those guys, but it is a list that tells a story of woe, that's for sure, and Hollings name had slipped from my memory until 15 minutes ago. Thanks Bill O'Brien!
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Why would you care? Tony Hollings produced for Georgia Tech. Maybe if he'd had a coach like O'Brien here in Houston he wouldn't have been such a footnote and warning to others here
.
 
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