SnakeOilTanker
Waterboy
you mean one of those guys that aren't very good but try hard?
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Texans acquire veteran quarterback Cody Pickett
- Thread starter santo
- Start date
the wonger need food
All Pro
Texans | Team trades a conditional seventh-round pick for Pickett
Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:46:51 -0700
Kevin Lynch, of the San Francisco Chronicle, reports the San Francisco 49ers obtained a conditional seventh-round pick in next year's NFL Draft from the Houston Texans in exchange for QB Cody Pickett. The condition is probably Pickett making the team.
Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:46:51 -0700
Kevin Lynch, of the San Francisco Chronicle, reports the San Francisco 49ers obtained a conditional seventh-round pick in next year's NFL Draft from the Houston Texans in exchange for QB Cody Pickett. The condition is probably Pickett making the team.
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
from what i've read at the 9ers board, yeah. that's the impression i get.SnakeOilTanker said:
El Tejano said:
I'm just using this post as a jumping off point; I'm not directly commenting to it.
One thing that drives me crazy in pre-season is that fans usually focus on every new player's strengths while disregarding weaknesses. For roster players, especially those that have been buried on depth chart, the focus is usually on weaknesses with no regard for strengths. Maybe it's because they weren't able to showcase their talents; I don't know.
In Ragone's case, we hear that he is immobile, a pocket passer, left-handed, etc. Well, there have been successful pocket passers and one or two lefties who could play. What we really never saw was Ragone's strengths. He did have some - he was a 3rd round pick in the NFL.
Obviously Ragone can play - he has done very well at every level he where has played consistent minutes, including the NFLe championship and MVP that many scoff at. The question is, how does a slow, immobile, left-handed pocket passer have any success?
Ragone's hidden strength was that he understands the game. That is a valuable asset in a QB, especially in one that keeps his cool and remains in the pocket passing. Whenever I've talked to a player for any length of time over the past couple of years coaching frequently came up. I'd ask if they'd ever coach, or who on the team would be a good coach. More often than not, Ragone's name came up as the player who would be a successful coach if he wanted to. I think that is interesting.
I think Ragone may surprise some people when he gets a shot at some playing time. I wish him well; for him it was best that he moved on.
Bartkoman
Practice Squad
I dont know if this has already been asked (I didnt read all of the threads), but the Texans cant carry four QBs. I've heard that Porter (Undrafted) did well in the spring and impressed the coaches, so I really dont understand this trade.
I guess it wont hurt if they end up waiving Pickett though.
I guess it wont hurt if they end up waiving Pickett though.
"I think Ragone may surprise some people when he gets a shot at some playing time. I wish him well; for him it was best that he moved on."
__________________
RUNNER
...good points in your post about Ragone! Now, playing for his college coach where he was a 3 time Conference Offensive MVP, I'm sure Dave will get a chance to play w/o being stereotyped like he has been in Houston. Too, while he jumped at the chance to play in Europe, Cody refused to go--not the kind of guy I'd pick over anybody, let alone Ragone.
__________________
RUNNER
...good points in your post about Ragone! Now, playing for his college coach where he was a 3 time Conference Offensive MVP, I'm sure Dave will get a chance to play w/o being stereotyped like he has been in Houston. Too, while he jumped at the chance to play in Europe, Cody refused to go--not the kind of guy I'd pick over anybody, let alone Ragone.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
El Tejano said:
Taking that a step further, there may be a hesitance to have a right handed QB backed up by a left handed one. The mechanics are different. Receivers get the ball at angles different from LH QB than those thrown by a RH QB. And much has been made by WRs about handling of the ball with the opposite spin of the spirals. Roll outs to different directions, hand offs from different sides/angles, etc. When the 1st team is preparing all week or most of a season with a RH QB, and in comes a LH QB, I can see how this could make things a little more awkward than if a another RH QB takes over.
the wonger need food
All Pro
THEFUTURE said:
Hopefully Porter will beat him out so we don't have to give up the draft pick.
DominickDavisFan76
Waterboy
If there was a QB option why didnt we just take Omar Jacobs, cuz everyone knows he is gonna be a great in the NFL....
THEFUTURE
Rookie
seriously... you know they want to have another vet... but pickett isn't a vet, sure he has been in the league for a few years.. but he has little experience. and if he doesn't get cut, and we somehow end up needing a 3rd string quarterback to play, i go with porter over pickett... get porter the experience, because we will be losing the game either waythe wonger need food said:
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
He's just an athletic guy. Probably will barely make the team. I think Kubiak just wants to get some talented guys in here and make players like Carr tap into their talent.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Agree: The only thing that agrovates me is if Dave had value, I would have though that Mr. Smith would have beet the bushes a bit. Not saying it "is " going to happen but I hope we can get more than "a six pack and two ham sandwiches"* for TJ.Runner said:
*Reportedly, Buddy Ryans to press as Eagles coach befor trading Carter.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Obviously, This IS Kubiak's guy. 'Nuff said. N1 Doc.CloakNNNdagger said:
TwinSisters
Veteran
infantrycak said:
It's from the article. I have no idea how things are really working anymore with the new CBA. At least not the details.
What I gathered was that because the Bengals didn't pay Ragone, they traded the claim to the Rams and thus the Rams would have to pony up the 7th rounder to the Texans instead of the Bengals.
Meaning that part of the deal was passed to the Rams.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
TwinSisters said:
I've never heard of draft picks empirically linked to waivered players.......As far as I know, once waived, the waiving club has no rights of any sort to the player, whether or not he is picked up or clears.
Here's something that should help us understand what really happened in this confusing set of moves:
Colts wanted Ragone: Many people were surprised when the St. Louis Rams traded a conditional draft pick to the Bengals for backup quarterback Dave Ragone about a month ago, and then gave him a $100,000 signing bonus to boot. The former Texans backup was brought to Cincinnati earlier this year when the Bengals, Colts and Patriots put in a claim for his services. The Rams reportedly didn't put a waiver claim on him at the time because they didn't want to pay his one-year $721,600 salary. They wanted to negotiate a deal that would have lowered his cap hit if he cleared waivers. When they learned the Bengals were considering waiving him, they asked for permission to work out a two-year deal with Ragone in exchange
for a pick as they believed at least the Colts would put in another waiver claim.
link
TwinSisters
Veteran
CloakNNNdagger said:
well I would never hold it against a person that doesn't understand NFL contract terminology that is for sure.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/agentarc.htm
( granted this is from 2004 ... the OLD terminology )
if you browse through this article, you will run across something that talks about the difference between being "released" and "waived"
Ragone was waived not released or cut. ( to my knowledge anyhow )
The old rules had terminology set for compensation that had to be paid for restricted free agents and/or players under 3 or 4 years of contract.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2492402
NEXT year he can become a unrestricted free agent... and then the pick is not going to follow him.
this might help a little bit too
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9573967
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
TwinSisters said:
Then there seems to be conflicting reports. According to the 1st link, the requirement is for "more than 4 credited years"....Ragaone has had 4..
TwinSisters
Veteran
CloakNNNdagger said:
Right. Ragone has to have less 4 or less OR otherwise the Texans could not have tagged him as a "restricted" free agent.
Then Ragone would be an "unrestricted" free agent. UFA's do not require compensation. RFA's do require compensation to the holding team. ( in this case the Texans )
Since Ragone is a RFA, there must be a draft pick tagged with him. The ESPN article leaves that part out.
( actually I don't know if there must be a draft pick assigned.. I just know that CBS reported us as getting a 7th round conditional from the Bengals when the first deal went down. I have to assume that the pick follows the original deal because otherwise you could cheat the system )
http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/afc-restricted
This link is better at explaining some of it.
It looks like the new CBA lowers the limit to 3 years and Ragone was grandfathered... or he didn't get credit for everything. I have no idea how they count NFLe experience though.
Bottom line is that he is a RFA. We get something for him.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
OK TwinSisters, I'll have to defer to you on this one, but I wish the media would get their reports and their act together.:brickwall
I have to edit this post now that I just have come across a source (USA Today) listing Ragone as a restricted FA but the requirement for UFA as "4 or more seasons" (Ragone 3 years). This essentially goes along with what you were saying.
I have to edit this post now that I just have come across a source (USA Today) listing Ragone as a restricted FA but the requirement for UFA as "4 or more seasons" (Ragone 3 years). This essentially goes along with what you were saying.
TwinSisters
Veteran
CloakNNNdagger said:
Yeah I couldn't really figure it out either. I just saw that the 7th round pick would be shipped to the Texans from the Bengals from some CBS line.
The player cards will list the guys at 4 year experience, but that is not always true because they are already counting this upcoming season as one year ( when they really only have 3 ).
The other part is credited 4 years... will a guy like Joppru count as 3 credited years on a contract? I don't know.
It's not easy to figure out!
texanfan2100
Waterboy
TwinSisters said:
I'm coming in on the end of this topic, but I think the Texans lost all compensation rights to Ragone when he was cut. They renounced his rights when that happened, so they get no compensation. He wasn't a "free agent," he was cut. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
TwinSisters
Veteran
texanfan2100 said:
no, that's the thing.
I do not believe he was ever cut.
He was placed on waivers. That's different. If he does not make the roster of another team, then we lose compensation. That's the way it should be working and the way it has worked in the past.
that's the CBS line
vtech9
All Pro
the difference is that the BENGALS picked him up off of waivers, taking his contract, making him theirs, and then worked out the trade. Once the Bengals picked him up, we lost all rights to him. The only thing the Texans can hope to gain is some sort of compensatory pick in the next draft from the NFL.TwinSisters said:
TwinSisters
Veteran
anyhoo enough of this contract talk. Get enough of that in the courts.
Cody Pickett is here.
And this is how its going to go down....
it's late.
the final seconds of the 4th quarter are rolling off the clock.
The crowd breaks out, "Shut the Gates. Shut the Gates. Shut the Gates. Shut The Gates..."
Kubiak looks over shoulder.
the head nods.
Calhoun points.
the man takes the field.
the snap.
the knee.
three times.
the clock expires.
Houston has it's first route, Cody "Shut-the-Gates-of-Mercy" Pickett
Beat em so bad that the third string quarterback is taking the knee!!
That's my dream.
( this week )
( and it better be against someone besides the Browns )
Cody Pickett is here.
And this is how its going to go down....
it's late.
the final seconds of the 4th quarter are rolling off the clock.
The crowd breaks out, "Shut the Gates. Shut the Gates. Shut the Gates. Shut The Gates..."
Kubiak looks over shoulder.
the head nods.
Calhoun points.
the man takes the field.
the snap.
the knee.
three times.
the clock expires.
Houston has it's first route, Cody "Shut-the-Gates-of-Mercy" Pickett
Beat em so bad that the third string quarterback is taking the knee!!
That's my dream.
( this week )
( and it better be against someone besides the Browns )
texanfan2100
Waterboy
TwinSisters said:
Whatever the situation is, the Texans came off looking bad. I understand the Sharper, Glenn, and Walker transactions. They are older players, and teams would just wait for them to be released instead of trading for them.
Ragone, however, turned into a draft pick for another team. They didn't even try to trade him. :brickwall :brickwall :brickwall Okay, deep breath. I'm okay now.
TwinSisters
Veteran
vtech9 said:
Ahhhh no more contract talk.
( just kidding )
Right. And we get the draft pick. If the Bengals trade him, we get the draft pick from the team that he is traded to. Which I guess is a 7th rounder.
Supposedly anyway.
TwinSisters
Veteran
texanfan2100 said:
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/STL/9545238
From what I see. We are getting the 7th round pick from the Rams, if he makes the roster.
vtech9
All Pro
and I think that is nothing more than a typo on their part. Ask yourself this...Why would you trade a guy for a pick when you aren't the one that will recieve it. What I'm saying is this, if the Bengals weren't going to get the pick, they would have either kept him or waived him. They wouldn't have traded him to help out another team and get nothing in return for it.TwinSisters said:
TwinSisters
Veteran
vtech9 said:
O yeah for sure it could be an error. It wouldn't be the first.
Why sign the guy for 716k or whatever it was earlier in the month, if you were going to cut him without any compensation?
The Bengals I believe are getting a pick from the Rams.
hmmm
So we should be getting a pick from the Bengals then.
I do believe I saw we get a pick form the Bengals when he was picked up off of waivers.
EDIT:
Hell if I know. I looked at the Bengals site and they say he was cut with no compensation to the Texans.
TwinSisters
Veteran
Vinny said:
yeah I just saw that at the Bengals site. I thought he was put on the block under RFA restrictions.
So what does the RFA signing do for us? the one year deal earlier this year that he signed for ( before we cut him ).
TwinSisters
Veteran
texan279 said:
So what does it do for Ragone? I mean if we were doing him a favour, wouldn't we just cut him high and dry so that teams could deal with him however they want? And why does the contract that he signed with us follow him? If he is cut that contract should be over?
I saw Kubiak's release about how he wanted to help him out and how he just didn't think he was going to fit here. Along with something about how he likes to move his QBs around a lot.
( which is good in itself! Gone is the dumb idea of drop back pockets without any good tackles )
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
That's what San Francisco gets for taking our Olympic Bid.