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Texans 2-6: Who's to Blame?

Texans_Chick

Texans_Chick

Utopian Dreamer
AOL Sports is going to be promoing something about all the NFL teams with poor records in the first half of the season. They asked the bloggers to write about the disappointing seasons and say who is to blame for them.

Anyway, I made a stab at it. And there are some really good comments on it as well.

I focused on the big picture issues as opposed to particular players, mostly because most of the players have been up and down over the course of the season, and the jury is still out.

I also tried to make it fair and realistic.

Anyway, it is a slow time of the week, and it is worth a look if you are interested. There are some good links in it--with some surprises.

Link: Houston Texans: A Still Optimistic 2-6

We talk about a lot of this stuff here, but it is kind of nice to memorialize things in blog posts. It's a different sort of history, and it is funny reading old ones sometimes.

Oh, and many of you will recognize the fine gentlemen in the picture. :)
 
DeclanJr said:
David Carr, we'd be 3-5 otherwise...
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And the Bears would be undefeated without Rex Grossman?

You can't eliminate Carr's poor performances without including his good ones. To be fair, we don't know how much better or worse the team would be with Rosenfels as the starter.
 
I'd like to find out...That isn't the only game he played bad in, but I'm putting that loss squarely on his shoulders. When you are throwing 20+ times for 187 yards, something is wrong. Coach K has designed this offense so that Carr can dink and dunk it down the field, and if that is taken away from him he throws picks and gets sacked...I'm all for putting in Rosenfels, but that is just where we disagree. Let's see how good he looks this week against a motivated Jacksonville team.
 
DeclanJr said:
David Carr, we'd be 3-5 otherwise...
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3-5...2-6...When you're rebuilding, which there should be no doubt that we are, is threre really much difference.

Using your logic we could say that without Cook we'd be 3-5. With Spencer still healty we just might be 4-3. With J. Christ at Rb we;d no doubt be 8-0 and the most feared team in the NFL.

We are what we are, a bad team that is making significant progress towards being better.
 
We obviously needed time to "warm up". The past 3 games we've played has got to make you believe that we can really hang with anybody. The defense was the big problem early in the season. It was just gawd-awful, but I think we fixed that. As for our offense, well... It's been typical Texan offense. Either you're hot or you're not. Everything taken into account, we really just started off the season with no fight in our belly. Now, it looks like we are actually out there trying to win games instead of going out there expecting to be slaughtered.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Alot of things. Our poor defensive play in the beginning of the season, Carr's turnovers, Cook's turnover, etc etc etc.
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Those are the micro things.

A lack of consistency. And learning new stuff. To me, a lot of that is either learning a new system, playing a lot of rookies, learning to play together as a team, and/or just bad breaks.

In my column, I talk more about the macro things. The big picture things.
 
You guys are going to see something unexpected this year,the Texans are making huge progress on defense and our offense can turn into a great one as we have one of the best WR in the league I just thing they need to put there faith on one back GADO and we could really cause some damage.I also think that Carr being benched two weeks ago woke him up, Kubiak wants to win and Carr knows he could loose his starting role if he slacks off.:shades:
 
Texans_Chick said:
And the Bears would be undefeated without Rex Grossman?

You can't eliminate Carr's poor performances without including his good ones. To be fair, we don't know how much better or worse the team would be with Rosenfels as the starter.
Click to expand...

I'm happy for David's improvements, and expect to see more to come, but which good ones are you talking about??

70% completion for 220 yards........... yawn.....

Any other QB in this league would be closer to 400 yards on 70% completion. with many more TDs to show for it.

while I don't put the blame for any one of our losses squarely on David's shoulders, I find it hard to believe we wouldn't have more wins if we had better play out of the QB position.

Same goes for the OL, same for the RBs, same for the defense.

But if any QB performed worse than ours, I doubt he'd still be playing at this point in the season.

Not saying that David should be sitting down, but that his good..... is everybody else's avg.
 
Please dont ever compare David Carr to Rex Grossman...the guy is straight garbage. David Carr is for sure better than Rex.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm happy for David's improvements, and expect to see more to come, but which good ones are you talking about??

70% completion for 220 yards........... yawn.....

Any other QB in this league would be closer to 400 yards on 70% completion. with many more TDs to show for it.

while I don't put the blame for any one of our losses squarely on David's shoulders, I find it hard to believe we wouldn't have more wins if we had better play out of the QB position.

Same goes for the OL, same for the RBs, same for the defense.

But if any QB performed worse than ours, I doubt he'd still be playing at this point in the season.

Not saying that David should be sitting down, but that his good..... is everybody else's avg.
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Maybe Carr would not be average if the offense did not have to be designed for the 1.5 second release that he was forced into from lack of protection. Now that the protection is there they are stretching the plays to find out what max protection might be, you don't just expect a Texan line to protect long enough for the 40,50,60 yard deep threat. They may get there but people please, would you want to stand back there waiting for your receivers to get down field?
 
I would say the biggest macro problem we have had since our inception has been the development/deployment of available talent. We have done this very, very poorly. It apears the new staff is reversing that trend.
 
ib4texans said:
Maybe Carr would not be average if the offense did not have to be designed for the 1.5 second release that he was forced into from lack of protection. Now that the protection is there they are stretching the plays to find out what max protection might be, you don't just expect a Texan line to protect long enough for the 40,50,60 yard deep threat. They may get there but people please, would you want to stand back there waiting for your receivers to get down field?
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After 4 years of starting behind the worse line in the history of the NFL, I can guarantee you two things.

I would be the most nimble QB in the league... & the most adept at avoiding sacks.

& I would have hands of steel.... I would never lose a fumble...... it might be stripped as I'm throwing the ball, but you could run me over with a mack truck, and I would be holding the ball in my cold dead hands.

I agree David has had issues to deal with, that he had no control over. But there are things he could control, and he should be better at controlling those things better than any QB in the league right now.
 
In the texans case, I don't think there is anyone to blame (well not currently employed by the organization). Unfortunately, based on overall talent, 2-6 is probably right on schedule. Think this is 5-11, maybe 6-10 football team.
 
Good macro view of the issues, Steph.

The biggest deficiency(ies) on this team at the end of last year was the lack of talent in the trenches. I think we made some strides in that direction, but still have work to do.
 
Everything is going to be allright!

It is not like we are getting blown out, remeber last year!

How many of you would have taken this year over last year, just competing wise, and There is a lot of improvement from Carr, Kubiak will straighten him out and we will get our BIG TIME running back and we will be fine.

It is nice to see that we dont need to draft in every single possition this year. Right now as it stands to me, we need a Plowing Gaurd, Saftey, another Backer (BRIGGS) to go along with Ryans, they will both make each other better, A RB!!!!!!!.
 
thunderkyss said:
After 4 years of starting behind the worse line in the history of the NFL, I can guarantee you two things.

I would be the most nimble QB in the league... & the most adept at avoiding sacks.

& I would have hands of steel.... I would never lose a fumble...... it might be stripped as I'm throwing the ball, but you could run me over with a mack truck, and I would be holding the ball in my cold dead hands.

I agree David has had issues to deal with, that he had no control over. But there are things he could control, and he should be better at controlling those things better than any QB in the league right now.
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Tkyss.

Do you talk about anything other than the QB position?

I do not believe that your posts are realistic about the QB position. This post. Your previous posts in this thread. Etc.

The Texans have played the 2nd hardest schedule in the league, with mostly no running game and learning a new scheme on offense that by most accounts is supposed to be a pretty complicated one.

One moment you say he has played such that he should be benched, and the next moment you say you wouldn't bench him.

Honestly I don't understand a lot of what you are trying to say.

Any other QB in this league would be closer to 400 yards on 70% completion. with many more TDs to show for it.

while I don't put the blame for any one of our losses squarely on David's shoulders, I find it hard to believe we wouldn't have more wins if we had better play out of the QB position.

Same goes for the OL, same for the RBs, same for the defense.

But if any QB performed worse than ours, I doubt he'd still be playing at this point in the season.

Not saying that David should be sitting down, but that his good..... is everybody else's avg.
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Paragraph 1: On THIS team? With our schedule? Learning a new scheme?

Paragraph 2 & 3: Well duh. Do you have any magic pixie dust that can make everyone improve instantly. Yes, the Texans would be a better team if all the Indianapolis Colts players were playing here instead. Yes, individuals need to be playing better, and all at the same time.

Paragraph 4: That is dog crud. See e.g. Plummer. Better team around him, better experience with the scheme, has a running game. (Compare his stats to DCs, especially looking at attempts.)

Paragraph 5: I'm just saying there is no way you can pencil Sage the wins that DC had because we will never know. I know that Kubiak believes DC can get better, he has gotten better, and I don't think anyone is arguing that the play in the QB position has been spectacular.
 
Runner said:
I would say the biggest macro problem we have had since our inception has been the development/deployment of available talent. We have done this very, very poorly. It apears the new staff is reversing that trend.
Click to expand...

And the acquisition of "talent" and the salaries they "earned."
 
DeclanJr said:
David Carr, we'd be 3-5 otherwise...
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David Carr is to blame? Wrong.

Who's to blame? 1) Charley Casserly for years of poor draft picks and trades, and 2) Dom Capers for years of zero focus on developing David Carr with an experienced backup or a top fight QB coach. Period.

The Texans are closer to a first year franchise than a fifth because so little was done during the first four years. With that said, sit back and watch the second half of the season. Our team is playing better and the competition is weaker. It's going to be a nice turn of events.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Tkyss.

Do you talk about anything other than the QB position?

I do not believe that your posts are realistic about the QB position. This post. Your previous posts in this thread. Etc.

The Texans have played the 2nd hardest schedule in the league, with mostly no running game and learning a new scheme on offense that by most accounts is supposed to be a pretty complicated one.

One moment you say he has played such that he should be benched, and the next moment you say you wouldn't bench him.

Honestly I don't understand a lot of what you are trying to say.




Paragraph 1: On THIS team? With our schedule? Learning a new scheme?

Paragraph 2 & 3: Well duh. Do you have any magic pixie dust that can make everyone improve instantly. Yes, the Texans would be a better team if all the Indianapolis Colts players were playing here instead. Yes, individuals need to be playing better, and all at the same time.

Paragraph 4: That is dog crud. See e.g. Plummer. Better team around him, better experience with the scheme, has a running game. (Compare his stats to DCs, especially looking at attempts.)

Paragraph 5: I'm just saying there is no way you can pencil Sage the wins that DC had because we will never know. I know that Kubiak believes DC can get better, he has gotten better, and I don't think anyone is arguing that the play in the QB position has been spectacular.
Click to expand...

I said it before and I will say it again the guy talks out of both side of his mouth...........I dont try to understand him!
 
I agree, last year we were getting blown out. I think that the "Great Defensive Mind" Dom Capers blew it when he destroyed our defense last year. Jamie Sharper, Aaron Glenn then Marcus Coleman. We have great guys now but with that veteran leadership it and ability it would have worked better. I don't remember the Texan defense stinking it up as much as last year.

If you want to bash Carr so be it, but find me another QB that starts his first game on an expansion team and wins against a great rival and continues on to set the record for most sacks in a single season. He has been there for the organization and I think the fans should recognize he wants to be a winner!
 
Blame? I suppose you could hang the Capers/Casserly duo for their poor performance. I really felt going into this season that it was a complete restart not unlike a new franchise and my only expectations were to see progress. Well, I've seen great progress and I'm please with the direction that Kubiak has the team in. Could we be better than 2-6 at this point? Some fans don't seem to realize that losing just one or two of your standout players on either side of the ball can make a huge difference. For example, add a healthy Dom Davis, Spencer, and Mathis to the offense and maybe we're 4-4. Or say we lost Ryans and Robinson in preseason to injuries. We might be 0-8. It's just a very fine line that all teams have to deal with and the loss of any playmaker makes a huge difference. Note Kubiak's lament at the early loss of Spencer. He knows what a difference one player can have.
 
ib4texans said:
I agree, last year we were getting blown out. I think that the "Great Defensive Mind" Dom Capers blew it when he destroyed our defense last year. Jamie Sharper, Aaron Glenn then Marcus Coleman. We have great guys now but with that veteran leadership it and ability it would have worked better. I don't remember the Texan defense stinking it up as much as last year.

If you want to bash Carr so be it, but find me another QB that starts his first game on an expansion team and wins against a great rival and continues on to set the record for most sacks in a single season. He has been there for the organization and I think the fans should recognize he wants to be a winner!
Click to expand...

Loved Sharper and Glenn. Coleman, not so much but it would be nice to see that mixture of vets with the young guys 'Meco and Williams... Sharper would have to move to the Outside though because I like Ryans in the middle.

Fran Tarkington - 1961 v. Chicago Bears....
 
infantrycak said:
Which is where Sharper won a SB ring with the Ravens.
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The point is that you agree that our defense took a huge blow in losing those established players who had up to that point provided a defense that was keeping us in games.

This defense now has the makings to be even better,but oh the wait would have been shorter with some of those guys around to bring it along.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Tkyss.


One moment you say he has played such that he should be benched, and the next moment you say you wouldn't bench him.

Honestly I don't understand a lot of what you are trying to say.
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I said I wouldn't have benched him in the Tennessee game. I've also stated that David is & should be the starter, because Kubiak is treating him more or less like a rookie prospect signed to be our future. So regardless if the fans(me, myself, & I) think we have a better QB on the bench, or that it is time to move on....... David will get the start.

I don't like David, I think I've been pretty consistent about that. I do believe he is playing better than he did last year....... I think I've been pretty honest about that.
Texans_Chick said:
Paragraph 1: On THIS team? With our schedule? Learning a new scheme?
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Yes...... not all of the bad play that I'm talking about concern learning, or scheming.

Protecting the ball is fundamental, and something he should have learned 5 years ago, and you shouldn't need a HOF coach to tell you. Indy, Washington, and Tennesse..... David gave them the ball by not holding onto it. Warner is sitting down right now, for the same reason on a team that is just as bad. Nobody is talking about new schemes & OL gelling.


Texans_Chick said:
Paragraph 2 & 3: Well duh. Do you have any magic pixie dust that can make everyone improve instantly. Yes, the Texans would be a better team if all the Indianapolis Colts players were playing here instead. Yes, individuals need to be playing better, and all at the same time.
Click to expand...
Right there, I'm just saying that I'm just saying through my hatred of David, I can still see many reasons why we are losing games....... i.e. it's not David's fault. I think we are on the same side of this argument.
Texans_Chick said:
Paragraph 4: That is dog crud. See e.g. Plummer. Better team around him, better experience with the scheme, has a running game. (Compare his stats to DCs, especially looking at attempts.)
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I wish I could say Jake has been playing worse than Carr. He's definitely playing worse than he did last year, but this year I'd say he is playing at about the same level(effectiveness of David) except he's really turned it on in the last two games, and David is still giving us the same blah..

Jake is avg completion is for 11.8 yards per completion. if he completed 70% of his passess(217 x 0.7=151) he'd have 1,792 passing yards right now, that's all I'm saying about that.
Texans_Chick said:
Paragraph 5: I'm just saying there is no way you can pencil Sage the wins that DC had because we will never know. I know that Kubiak believes DC can get better, he has gotten better, and I don't think anyone is arguing that the play in the QB position has been spectacular.
Click to expand...

you're right, we don't know.... and it's just speculation.
 
Hulk75 said:
I said it before and I will say it again the guy talks out of both side of his mouth...........I dont try to understand him!
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I've said David is improving......

I've said David is playing better than I expected to see him play this year....

I've said that Kubiak said David is our starter, and Sage is a backup, and as such, it doesn't make sense to start Sage with the first team in the preseason just to see if he is better/worse than David.......

I've also said David has screwed up..........

I've said David is repeating some of his old mistakes....

I've said David was at the butt end of a turnover in 5 out of our first 7 games.....

If talking out of both sides of my mouth mean that I'm completely objective about David Carr, all I can say is Thankyou...... I am trying. I don't believe I've reached complete objectivity yet, but I'm trying.
 
ib4texans said:
The point is that you agree that our defense took a huge blow in losing those established players who had up to that point provided a defense that was keeping us in games.

This defense now has the makings to be even better,but oh the wait would have been shorter with some of those guys around to bring it along.
Click to expand...

I thought Sharper's performance had dropped off considerably. Coupled with injury concerns and a huge cap number I understood the Texans letting him go if they couldn't renegotiate his contract. Hindsight in particular shows that judgment was correct as he missed half of the next season with a knee injury and is now out of football.

I thought it was a mistake to let Aaron Glenn go particularly without trying to renegotiate his contract but either way IMO he should have been kept. He clearly demonstrated the leadership and mentoring on the sidelines that people assume all veterans contribute when clearly not everyone does. Pretty telling that he has contributed to a much better D since leaving here.
 
Who is to blame for this team sitting at 2-6? The blame can spread around from the previous coaching staff and general manager due to lack of talent on the squad because of poor personnel decisions, to the current coaching staff, and the players that have played for the Texans thus far this year. Might as well through in the Captian of the boat too, Mr. McNair because he is the ultimate decision maker since day 1. Bottom line, almost everyone in this organization, past and present, has their hands in this one way or another, more than likely that is.

Where we are now? It seems is very clear the defense is playing way better than the first three games of the season, that it is absolutely amazing considering how they started off and the talent they have in personnel. Meanwhile, the offense is just about the same as it has always been going back to the very beginning with Doom Capers.

The last two games were lost because the offense couldn't score points or come up with meaningful drives in the clutch, which has been an issue for some time now.

I am truely amazed out how many people laid the blame of the first three losses on the defense and then don't come to their side when the offense doesn't pull it's end of the bargain when the defense plays great.

This offense averages about 16 points a game, and is lucky to get 10 points by the first half at home or 7 points on the road. In addition, they only get about 200 yards passing and 90 yards rushing in a game. That is with the offensive minds of Kubiak and Sherman with great talent like David Carr and Andre Johnson, or so I am led to believe. How much longer is it going to take for me to see something that shows this offense can have some real offensive explosion?

I am tired of hearing excuses for the offense and that I should be more patient.

If the defense was still getting torched like the first three games, people would be asking for heads to roll immediately. Meanwhile the offense is still so slow and predictable and can't run the 2-minute drill or score points quickly.

The biggest part of the game right now holding the Texans is the offense. Scoring points is what wins in this league, and defenses will be glad to let an offense have a 100 QB passer rating in a game and let one receiver have over 100 yards if it means the offense only scores 17 or so points. That is the Texans in a nutshell and defenses are giving them certain things becuase the Texans are not willing to expose anything else. The Texans offense is risk averse. We don't need an $8 million QB and an $8 million WR for an offense like that? Not to mention what is the point of having Kubiak, the offensive guru then too?

Also, I am tired of hearing this offensive line excuse. There are 32 teams in the league, so the talent is spread very thin for everyone in the league, no one is stacking up on talent at position in the NFL. That is where skill positions come in and coaching, which is why the head coach and QB are so important. A great head coach and QB can make a marginal offensive line look great.

My patience for this offense is running very thin because I continue hear they need more time and talent. Look around, there are some teams that weren't so good last year, and they are at .500 or better.

You get what you expect.

I am beginning to really understand why Buddy Ryan went lights out on Kevin Gilbride.
 
thunderkyss said:
1) I don't like David,

2) Protecting the ball is fundamental, and something he should have learned 5 years ago, and you shouldn't need a HOF coach to tell you.
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1) What a shocker..... Ya think?

2) It took Moon several years to figure it out..... Last residency Canton Ohio...
 
I wish I could say Jake has been playing worse than Carr. He's definitely playing worse than he did last year, but this year I'd say he is playing at about the same level(effectiveness of David) except he's really turned it on in the last two games, and David is still giving us the same blah..

Jake is avg completion is for 11.8 yards per completion. if he completed 70% of his passess(217 x 0.7=151) he'd have 1,792 passing yards right now, that's all I'm saying about that.
Click to expand...

Jake Plummer Game1:138 YDS
Game2:173 YDS
Game3:256 YDS
Game4:106 YDS
Game5:102 YDS
Game6:209 YDS
Game7:174 YDS
Game8:227 YDS

If he completed 70% he would have 1,792, but I guess he's not David Carr. Because if he was David Carr you would be down on him for the 5 games less than 200 yard passing. Talk about boring.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
And the acquisition of "talent" and the salaries they "earned."
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I agree that we have a poor record in the price/performance ratio of our players. I think the performance area could have risen with many of the players to make them more in line with their salaries given suitable coaching, scheming, etc. However, there would still have been a few players that would have been over paid even with good coaching.

We previously didn't get good bang for our lower salaried players previously either. Ryans, Daniels, (Spencer woulda shoulda) are examples of this.
 
thunderkyss said:
Jake is avg completion is for 11.8 yards per completion. if he completed 70% of his passess(217 x 0.7=151) he'd have 1,792 passing yards right now, that's all I'm saying about that.
Click to expand...

Nice abuse of poor little "if."

If he had thrown 7 less INT's he'd have none.
If he had thrown 9 more TD's he'd have just as many as Peyton.
 
ib4texans said:
I agree, last year we were getting blown out. I think that the "Great Defensive Mind" Dom Capers blew it when he destroyed our defense last year. Jamie Sharper, Aaron Glenn then Marcus Coleman. We have great guys now but with that veteran leadership it and ability it would have worked better. I don't remember the Texan defense stinking it up as much as last year.
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Getting rid of players in decline wasn't the problem. Coleman and Sharper have one game started combined in 2006. Our inability to replace good players in decline with equal or better talent is the problem.
 
hollywood_texan said:
There is no comparison of Moon and Carr.

Live that one alone.
Click to expand...

Why should I live that one alone? The discussion was about turnovers:

Warren Moon Regular Season Stats
FUMBLES
Year AGE Team TOT OWR OPR YDS TD
1984 27 HOO 17 7 0 -1 0
1985 28 HOO 12 5 0 -8 0
1986 29 HOO 11 3 0 -4 0
1987 30 HOO 8 6 0 -7 0
1988 31 HOO 8 4 0 -12 0


Most Fumbles, Career
160 Warren Moon, Houston, 1984-93

Most Fumbles, Season
21 Tony Banks, St. Louis, 1996
18 Dave Krieg, Seattle, 1989
Warren Moon, Houston, 1990
 
The root cause lays solidly on Casserly and Capers. They were unable to draft anywhere near well, never actually addressed the O-line, could not develope a player to save their collective butts and continually over paid vets and gave them long contracts.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Why should I live that one alone? The discussion was about turnovers:

Warren Moon Regular Season Stats
FUMBLES
Year AGE Team TOT OWR OPR YDS TD
1984 27 HOO 17 7 0 -1 0
1985 28 HOO 12 5 0 -8 0
1986 29 HOO 11 3 0 -4 0
1987 30 HOO 8 6 0 -7 0
1988 31 HOO 8 4 0 -12 0


Most Fumbles, Career
160 Warren Moon, Houston, 1984-93

Most Fumbles, Season
21 Tony Banks, St. Louis, 1996
18 Dave Krieg, Seattle, 1989
Warren Moon, Houston, 1990
Click to expand...

I took your comparison that Carr is on his way to the Hall of Fame.

If I played in the NFL, I would probably fumble and get sacked a lot too, does that make me like Moon? No it doesn't.

You are taking one piece of the puzzle and not looking at other things.

There are some players that consistently make big mistakes but the net, net of them being on the field is more important because they can carry the team to victory.

I call it the Favre effect. Brett Favre at the hieght of his career would make some pretty big mistakes, but you knew there was a good chance he could dig out of any hole he dug for himself into.

Another way to look at is getting upset with a QB that losses the game on one bad play but it is their good play that puts the team in the position to win. Carr's good plays are not enough for the offense to score enough points for the Texans to win on offense alone.

In addition, David Carr hasn't proved he can dig himself out of a hole. Carr needs the defense to play well and he has to have zero mistakes so that maybe they can sniff around the 4th quarter and maybe, just maybe win a game, but most times they can't do it, particularly on the road.
 
Vinny said:
Getting rid of players in decline wasn't the problem. Coleman and Sharper have one game started combined in 2006. Our inability to replace good players in decline with equal or better talent is the problem.
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Ding ding ding, give Vinny a cigar.

And growing your own talent. Being committed to them in a particular philosophy, instead of patchworking a scheme and hoping it works.

We have young players. We have oldish players. We have few developed players who should be approaching the prime of their careers. Most of those guys progress was hindered by their coaching/scheme.

Do you think it helped Andre Johnson running last year's offensive scheme? Or having no quality veteran mentors?

Or David Carr's QB coaching situation?

Or Chester Pitts playing all sorts of positions? And having to relearn technique stuff that was taught wrong in the first place. It isn't a surprise that he is the best linemen for the Texans right now. We've grown him, and the rest are youngin and oldums and pickups.

Or all those players like Weary and Wand who were sat last year, even while it was obvious the team was in a free fall.
 
I expect to see a good effort from Carr AND the rest of team against Jags. If not, each deserves any criticism he gets. But each should be recognised for good effort. A win may be a win , but I don't like them sloppy. I'm looking for consistency on O & D accompanied by a decent running game. I want to see receivers beating one on ones. My view.
 
I in no way was comparing HOF status.. But whats interesting is that Moon had more fumbles than Carr and other stats are eerily similar at the same points in their respective careers. Lest we forget Moon had 4 or 5 years in the CFL (more like a finishing school than pro bowl) to develop further than a 22 year old rookie

Moon was horrible in his first five years. We all try to remember his career with rose colored glasses, but if you are realistic, you will remember how bad he was, and how the fans boooed him merciless in the Dome.

But what happened? The Oilers stuck with him, built an O-line, got some Running backs, receivers and brought in a new system (a hybrid of the run-n-shoot) the "Red Gun".....

The jury is out on Carr for sure, but he can still succeed.....
 
ib4texans said:
Jake Plummer Game1:138 YDS vs STLouis
Game2:173 YDS vs KC
Game3:256 YDS vs NE
Game4:106 YDS vs Bal
Game5:102 YDS vs Oak
Game6:209 YDS vs Cle
Game7:174 YDS vs Ind
Game8:227 YDS vs Pitt

If he completed 70% he would have 1,792, but I guess he's not David Carr. Because if he was David Carr you would be down on him for the 5 games less than 200 yard passing. Talk about boring.
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I'm not up on JakePlummer. I am saying he's been playing poorly. Just like I would say if David turned the ball over iin 5 of 8 games this year.
 
infantrycak said:
Nice abuse of poor little "if."

If he had thrown 7 less INT's he'd have none.
If he had thrown 9 more TD's he'd have just as many as Peyton.
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all I'm saying is that 70% completion in and of itself is not a big enough stat to say that a particular QB is playing well.

Just like saying a reciever with 38 catches over a 6 game period tells us nothing about how well that reciever is doing.

70% completion plus a bunch of yards would be nice.

70% completion plus a bunch of turnovers........ not so nice.
 
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