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Texans 1.3 Pick Derek Stingley Jr.

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Those who don't know history are bound to repeat it. Therefore the question has any NFL DB who suffered a lisfranc injury and has been able to return to the same level of performance for an extended period of time is a very pertinent question to ask. The other question is if so, how many of those DB lisfranc injured players were able to do so.
Outcomes of Lisfranc Injuries in the National Football League - PubMed (nih.gov)
Keep in mind that the study that was posted included outcomes of players that underwent repair of their lisfranc AND players that were treated without surgery............most were in the latter category. The significance of that is that it is well known that lisfrancs that are able to be treated without surgery are of a definite lesser grade injury...........and their prognoses are in general quite good when it comes to return level of performance. The opposite tends to be the case when surgical intervention is necessary.
 

pirbroke

Veteran
Keep in mind that the study that was posted included outcomes of players that underwent repair of their lisfranc AND players that were treated without surgery............most were in the latter category. The significance of that is that it is well known that lisfrancs that are able to be treated without surgery are of a definite lesser grade injury...........and their prognoses are in general quite good when it comes to return level of performance. The opposite tends to be the case when surgical intervention is necessary.
Cloak I just want to say I love ya man but almost every time you post I think you look like this.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
Keep in mind that the study that was posted included outcomes of players that underwent repair of their lisfranc AND players that were treated without surgery............most were in the latter category. The significance of that is that it is well known that lisfrancs that are able to be treated without surgery are of a definite lesser grade injury...........and their prognoses are in general quite good when it comes to return level of performance. The opposite tends to be the case when surgical intervention is necessary.
Just curious Doc - how did you come to that conclusion?
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Clowney was a McNair choice. But I can tell you that the Texans medical staff supported the pick fully, with little concern with any of the pre-existing conditions I mentioned.

As far as Stingley, the constant "pumping" of the legs up and down is great in drills, but in real game play, a man CB must be able to "stick" and explode into a change of direction.
Right, waiting for TC to see some stick a foot in the ground at full speed and cut. I hope he puts any worries on the subject to rest. However, I am still worried about it
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
I expect opposing offenses are going to test Stingley early and often. I don't think it will take long for us to see whether the concerns over Stingley's middle foot are unfounded or not. As of now, and as of the moment he was selected, I'm very skeptical.
Of course he will be tested. At 100%, if he is, he is no question the top CB on the team and could be a top 5 in short order. Not was kidding when they said that he was going to be on an island with the other teams top WR. I hope his foot is good, but like you I'm unsure
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Right, waiting for TC to see some stick a foot in the ground at full speed and cut. I hope he puts any worries on the subject to rest. However, I am still worried about it
I hope he's able to do this in week 17 as well as he does in week 1.

As we saw with Schaub this is the type of injury that gets progressively worse as the season progresses.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Keep in mind that the study that was posted included outcomes of players that underwent repair of their lisfranc AND players that were treated without surgery............most were in the latter category. The significance of that is that it is well known that lisfrancs that are able to be treated without surgery are of a definite lesser grade injury...........and their prognoses are in general quite good when it comes to return level of performance. The opposite tends to be the case when surgical intervention is necessary.
This is true. Similar to a meniscus tear. Some are just a little discount but you are pretty much good to go with OTC meds. Meanwhile, a bad tear requires surgery to remove the piece/s that are disconnecting from the meniscus. As well as clean up any damage to the ACL, PCL and MCL. The latter also includes rehabilitation of the knee as well as taking caution with it for "X" time (depending on the degree of damage).

With Stingley having to have surgery and playing on it for a while. His was no question in need of a very good clean and repair. And yes due to the severe nature I personally feel the injury could have lingering effects.

Doc, would you agree with me on that? Not trying to call you out my friend. Just trying to get the best idea for everyone on what we can expect
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
This is true. Similar to a meniscus tear. Some are just a little discount but you are pretty much good to go with OTC meds. Meanwhile, a bad tear requires surgery to remove the piece/s that are disconnecting from the meniscus. As well as clean up any damage to the ACL, PCL and MCL. The latter also includes rehabilitation of the knee as well as taking caution with it for "X" time (depending on the degree of damage).

With Stingley having to have surgery and playing on it for a while. His was no question in need of a very good clean and repair. And yes due to the severe nature I personally feel the injury could have lingering effects.

Doc, would you agree with me on that? Not trying to call you out my friend. Just trying to get the best idea for everyone on what we can expect
If you've kept up with my previous posts, you know that any lisfranc injury can have lingering effects, even those that can be treated conservatively. But those surgically repaired can be expected to carry lingering effects. In those cases where the player was allowed to try to play through lesser grade lisfranc injuries until they extended to grade III where avoidance of surgery was essentially no option, significant joint damage would have already occurred. When this occurs, surgery will usually stabilize the joint, but it cannot reverse the damage sustained to the cartilage. Osteoarthritis has been shown to occur in 40-50% of these cases, beginning anytime from a couple of months to a couple of years post injury. And if the hardware is removed, in time, the joint space of the lisfranc joint can again increase and create joint instability to a variable extent...........essentially moving towards recreating the original problem of a lisfranc injury.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If you've kept up with my previous posts, you know that any lisfranc injury can have lingering effects, even those that can be treated conservatively. But those surgically repaired can be expected to carry lingering effects. In those cases where the player was allowed to try to play through lesser grade lisfranc injuries until they extended to grade III where avoidance of surgery was essentially no option, significant joint damage would have already occurred. When this occurs, surgery will usually stabilize the joint, but it cannot reverse the damage sustained to the cartilage. Osteoarthritis has been shown to occur in 40-50% of these cases, beginning anytime from a couple of months to a couple of years post injury. And if the hardware is removed, in time, the joint space of the lisfranc joint can again increase and create joint instability to a variable extent...........essentially moving towards recreating the original problem of a lisfranc injury.
Have you seen his actual "file" do you know exactly the extent of the damage & the method of "repair"?
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I see I have offended you.

Was not my intention.

I'm so sorry for wanting to know the extent of Stingley's repair & thinking you may have 1st hand knowledge of such repair.
Definitely, no offense taken, but I would never reveal what is in a patient's file if allowed to read it as a treating or consulting surgeon. The information I post on the board is from a mix of my embedded sources, knowing what a particular surgeon's techniques is that he uses to address certain injuries, and the probabilities involved in predicting future outcomes as dictated by studies and my own experience.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
If you've kept up with my previous posts, you know that any lisfranc injury can have lingering effects, even those that can be treated conservatively. But those surgically repaired can be expected to carry lingering effects. In those cases where the player was allowed to try to play through lesser grade lisfranc injuries until they extended to grade III where avoidance of surgery was essentially no option, significant joint damage would have already occurred. When this occurs, surgery will usually stabilize the joint, but it cannot reverse the damage sustained to the cartilage. Osteoarthritis has been shown to occur in 40-50% of these cases, beginning anytime from a couple of months to a couple of years post injury. And if the hardware is removed, in time, the joint space of the lisfranc joint can again increase and create joint instability to a variable extent...........essentially moving towards recreating the original problem of a lisfranc injury.
Thanks @CloakNNNdagger that really helps. I don’t want to call him a bad pick, seeing if he can get to 100% he is very good. However, I think Sauce should have been the pick mainly because of the medial issues. Plus, we all saw his stats and he locks down whoever he covers. In college he was Primetime like. He really is not much bigger than Stingley either. You can not go backwards and redo it so we must hope Stingley is good to go. Fingers crossed 🤞
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Thanks @CloakNNNdagger that really helps. I don’t want to call him a bad pick, seeing if he can get to 100% he is very good. However, I think Sauce should have been the pick mainly because of the medial issues. Plus, we all saw his stats and he locks down whoever he covers. In college he was Primetime like. He really is not much bigger than Stingley either. You can not go backwards and redo it so we must hope Stingley is good to go. Fingers crossed 🤞
A healthy Stingley is a better fit in Lovie's defense. As I've already stated Stingley would have been to big of an injury risk for me to take at 1-3. Let's hope this works out despite the data CnD has provided us.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Ok, I get it. I’m a dumbass and not a direct descendant of Hippocrates, but looking at these vids of Derek, what is his REAL perceived status? This isn’t an “issue” with me but ****, watching him in these vids what is going on? Is he one step away from destruction or is there some other thing going on? If he is fragile why are the Texans pushing him like they are….and why is he responding? I truly don’t know what to think of him if the media = truth.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Ok, I get it. I’m a dumbass and not a direct descendant of Hippocrates, but looking at these vids of Derek, what is his REAL perceived status? This isn’t an “issue” with me but ****, watching him in these vids what is going on? Is he one step away from destruction or is there some other thing going on? If he is fragile why are the Texans pushing him like they are….and why is he responding? I truly don’t know what to think of him if the media = truth.
Nope, odds are he will play on Kirby for 5 years, but never will be what he could have been.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Metchie is a WR who plays on offense and Pep told Nick to go get him. Nick abides.
Let the coaches and scouts hash it out. Nick is just the facilitator. Which would explain his player profile during his pressers, like reading a scouting report not tying fabric of roster fit. Having real hard time reading between the lines. Seems all on Pep, Warhop and Smith.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Nope, odds are he will play on Kirby for 5 years, but never will be what he could have been.
I‘ve rarely seen such of a mystery surrounding a player. Time will tell. I wish we could get a report on him at the OTA’s from a beat reporter. It seems like his health is an issue with everyone except for Stingley and the coaching staff.I get the impression that they are like “ what is all the hype about”.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Let the coaches and scouts hash it out. Nick is just the facilitator. Which would explain his player profile during his pressers, like reading a scouting report not tying fabric of roster fit. Having real hard time reading between the lines. Seems all on Pep, Warhop and Smith.
Perfect. Well explained.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
All y’all have it wrong. All things being equal, Teams pick guys in the draft based on the potential upside……which is based on the theory that a higher upside has the potential for a higher floor. So even if he never reaches the “HOF ability” SEVERAL named and unnamed folks have said he has, and all he becomes is a good solid CB…a Dre Bly type, hes still pretty damn good…

and lets be real, Stingley’s potential upside was higher than most of the prospects in this draft. Just based on Gardner going literally the pick right after him, i firmly believe SOMEONE was gonna take him top 5….maybe even the jets.

That “W” drill he was doing in that video…I’ve done that drill 100’s of times as a DB. Quick Change of direction/footwork drill…& just Based on that video…he didnt look limited at all…he looked damn good actually.

CND is right, the excessive “pumping of legs” isnt what you’d see in an actual game from a cb…but you wont see a 1 step plant and drive on the ball either…especially from a man cb.

But in my experience…..even in pumping your legs, you are still putting significant stress on your feet in that drill……further, that is much closer to what might happen in a game than a 1 step plant and drive forward towards the ball/WR.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
All y’all have it wrong. All things being equal, Teams pick guys in the draft based on the potential upside……which is based on the theory that a higher upside has the potential for a higher floor. So even if he never reaches the “HOF ability” SEVERAL named and unnamed folks have said he has, and all he becomes is a good solid CB…a Dre Bly type, hes still pretty damn good…

and lets be real, Stingley’s potential upside was higher than most of the prospects in this draft. Just based on Gardner going literally the pick right after him, i firmly believe SOMEONE was gonna take him top 5….maybe even the jets.

That “W” drill he was doing in that video…I’ve done that drill 100’s of times as a DB. Quick Change of direction/footwork drill…& just Based on that video…he didnt look limited at all…he looked damn good actually.

CND is right, the excessive “pumping of legs” isnt what you’d see in an actual game from a cb…but you wont see a 1 step plant and drive on the ball either…especially from a man cb.

But in my experience…..even in pumping your legs, you are still putting significant stress on your feet in that drill……further, that is much closer to what might happen in a game than a 1 step plant and drive forward towards the ball/WR.
I don't think anybody is questioning Stingley ability to be a good to Hall of Fame cornerback but rather question how long he can play at what ever level he gets to. I posted that I believe car stereo was hoping he can get two extremely good years out of Derek and then a couple average ones during his contract.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I don't think anybody is questioning Stingley ability to be a good to Hall of Fame cornerback but rather question how long he can play at what ever level he gets to. I posted that I believe car stereo was hoping he can get two extremely good years out of Derek and then a couple average ones during his contract.
i think he’s looking at it from a “worthy” gamble standpoint. 2-3 extremely good years a few average ones and a couple more just “alright” after that, the pick is worth it. Anything over that and its a homerun.

The saints taking a gamble on Brees, led to a SB win, and 15 years of sustained success.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Sauce and Stingley are going to be compared to eachother for the entirety of their careers. I will say Stingley has the softer schedule in terms of competition not playing in the same division as Josh Allen at QB and another team having Tyreek Hill/Jaylen Waddle at WR regardless how you feel about Tua.

Matt Ryan is currently best QB in AFC South but this division the offenses are going to win more so by running the ball than airing it out. I’d definitely rather face off with Matt Ryan/Michael Pittman instead of Josh Allen/Stefon Diggs.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Who the freak knows? I just saw him riding around on a 1 mph go cart while Stingley was making more moves than you see in Dancing with the Stars. My point is if the team states they are holding him back then it doesn’t look like it to me. They give every appearance of being in push mode.
Just an FYI, both Stingley and Schaub were operated upon by Dr. Robert Anderson. Anderson stated that Schaub would return to 100%. Schaub was cleared to practice a little over 7 months post surgery........about the time when Stingley had his Pro Day.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG

"We know Derek Stingley is going to play for us this year"??
That wording sounds like he IS NOT going to be ready day 1. Or at the very least that the staff think he might not be ready.

I also have been hearing about the possibility that he quit on the team. Rumors are that, yes he was hurt, but prior to that after freshman year he shut it down. That his motivation was not what it could/should have been. After watching some scouting reports (not highlights) you can see in body language he seems board. Now is he or does it just seem that way from the body language? Here is 2 I noticed it in many other videos are around. You can judge what you think.


 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
That “W” drill he was doing in that video…I’ve done that drill 100’s of times as a DB. Quick Change of direction/footwork drill…& just Based on that video…he didnt look limited at all…he looked damn good actually.

CND is right, the excessive “pumping of legs” isnt what you’d see in an actual game from a cb…but you wont see a 1 step plant and drive on the ball either…especially from a man cb.

But in my experience…..even in pumping your legs, you are still putting significant stress on your feet in that drill……further, that is much closer to what might happen in a game than a 1 step plant and drive forward towards the ball/WR.
I would have to disagree............the pumping definitely leads to much lesser stress on the feet than a plant and drive. And the plant and drive is extremely important for a player (especially a CB) to stop on a dime, explode into a forward direction and acutely change direction with explosion.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I would have to disagree............the pumping definitely leads to much lesser stress on the feet than a plant and drive. And the plant and drive is extremely important for a player (especially a CB) to stop on a dime, explode into a forward direction and acutely change direction with explosion.
I agree on the much less stress on the feet than in a hard 1 step plant and drive situation...I'm just saying he is still putting significant stress on his foot with the pumping as well...the load is just spread out over repeated plants...but that's the drill & that's how it is taught...they want to see quick change of direction, your ability to shuffle and gather your feet quickly to be able to react forward....which is how it will most likely happen in a game.

..If this were a WR we were talking about where precise cutting off of huge loads of pressure on 1 foot at sharp angles is vital to be a good route runner and selling routes, i would agree with you, but for DB's, the stopping on a dime, planting and driving forward off 1 foot...its rarely gonna happen like that in games. There's usually a "throttle down" of some type or reshuffling of feet for positioning first when you're out there naturally running with guys who know where they're going and you as the DB don't....
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
That wording sounds like he IS NOT going to be ready day 1. Or at the very least that the staff think he might not be ready.

I also have been hearing about the possibility that he quit on the team. Rumors are that, yes he was hurt, but prior to that after freshman year he shut it down. That his motivation was not what it could/should have been. After watching some scouting reports (not highlights) you can see in body language he seems board. Now is he or does it just seem that way from the body language? Here is 2 I noticed it in many other videos are around. You can judge what you think.


No doubt the young man showed extreme talent in 2019. But so many of his successful plays displayed in the videos are accompanied by pushoffs and contacts way beyond the 5 yds allowed in the NFL. Besides overcoming his injury, another question that needs to be answered is will he be able to maintain his 2019 college success while, by NFL rules, keeping his hands to himself.
 


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