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Texans 1.3 Pick Derek Stingley Jr.

CloakNNNdagger said:
To be fair, I'm posting this video. In all of the videos that I've reviewed, he is continually pumping his legs (and I know this is an acceptable technique). This makes change of direction easier with less stress on either foot. His change of direction is also preceded by a short pause followed by rounding of his change of direction while pumping. This is not demonstrating the acute change of direction without pause which places maximum stress on the push off foot, and which is often necessary in game play against an opponent. Yet certainly this video performance is less dog related.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529103469130526720
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Well I like the music..
 
badboy said:
If he fails medically we will know it probably sooner than later and then I can complain about the poor decision by Car Sterio and Lovie Smith.
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I don’t think it was a poor decision. I’m hoping they knew something we didn’t.

like Clowney. People are unrealistic if they say the Texans should have known he was an injury risk when it was his healthy knee that wasdamaged by the grass pallet seams.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don’t think it was a poor decision. I’m hoping they knew something we didn’t.

like Clowney. People are unrealistic if they say the Texans should have known he was an injury risk when it was his healthy knee that wasdamaged by the grass pallet seams.
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For me unless they knew it was not Lisfranc or he is not a medical marvel, it was poor decision..nothing less.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
To be fair, I'm posting this video. In all of the videos that I've reviewed, he is continually pumping his legs (and I know this is an acceptable technique). This makes change of direction easier with less stress on either foot. His change of direction is also preceded by a short pause followed by rounding of his change of direction while pumping. This is not demonstrating the acute change of direction without pause which places maximum stress on the push off foot, and which is often necessary in game play against an opponent. Yet certainly this video performance is less dog related.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529103469130526720
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He is doing a lot of small things that help his foot, ankle, knees and hips get back into shape. The question is:

Is it enough or is it either going to take awhile OR it could shorten his career.
 
zshawn10 said:
Looks fine here

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529116668236120067
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CloakNNNdagger said:
To be fair, I'm posting this video. In all of the videos that I've reviewed, he is continually pumping his legs (and I know this is an acceptable technique). This makes change of direction easier with less stress on either foot. His change of direction is also preceded by a short pause followed by rounding of his change of direction while pumping. This is not demonstrating the acute change of direction without pause which places maximum stress on the push off foot, and which is often necessary in game play against an opponent. Yet certainly this video performance is less dog related.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529103469130526720
Click to expand...
 
thunderkyss said:
I don’t think it was a poor decision. I’m hoping they knew something we didn’t.

like Clowney. People are unrealistic if they say the Texans should have known he was an injury risk when it was his healthy knee that wasdamaged by the grass pallet seams.
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Clowney definitely WAS an injury risk. His entire last season in college, he was dealing with a knee injury, which I later found out was a medial meniscus of his right knee. Microfracture surgery was already being considered. However, this would have severely affected his expected high Draft status. At the same time, throughout his last college season, he was dealing with a significant "sports hernia" (core injury). In addition, he was found to have painful bone spurs in his foot that season, as well as a concussion.

Clowney was to have surgery to remove the bone spurs, but he opted not to. After he was drafted, the Texans medical staff finally in June decided that he required repair of his "sports hernia." At the time, he was known to have weakness of both sides, but due to a potentially longer recovery (and not being ready to play at the beginning of the regular season), it was decided to treat the contralateral side conservatively. After that, his history of knee injuries/surgeries is well known.

Whether the grass pallet seam helped trigger or even contributed to the need for his knee surgery or not can be debated. What can't be debated is that Clowney was a very high risk for his subsequent knee history coming out of college.

A college history of previous meniscus damage, bone spurs known to cause core problems and compensatory knee injuries, "sports hernia(s)" causing core instability with high risk for compensatory lower extremity injuries, and concussions well-known to be associated with high risk of subsequent lower extremity injuries.

The signs were already there for anyone, especially trained medical staff, paying attention.
 
Not a fan of the pick, I'm risk-averse so with any draft pick that high I would be looking for sustained college performance and injury history (although it's rare anyone makes it out of 2 or 3 years of college-level football without injury of some type).

But I really don't think GM's, coaches, owners really care - we are Texans fans so we notice the incompetence of the Texans evaluators and medical staff (paid incompetence but whats the difference) but can anyone say other teams are much different?

@CloakNNNdagger I'm sure you follow the rest of the NFL, and not expecting a lengthy reply, but have you seen any team 'do it right'? I would expect they all rush players back to soon, sign and/or draft players with circumspect re-injury chances etc.

Just seems to me the people who are in charge of most teams treat injuries like Monty Python...

1653514918936.png
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Not a fan of the pick, I'm risk-averse so with any draft pick that high I would be looking for sustained college performance and injury history (although it's rare anyone makes it out of 2 or 3 years of college-level football without injury of some type).

But I really don't think GM's, coaches, owners really care - we are Texans fans so we notice the incompetence of the Texans evaluators and medical staff (paid incompetence but whats the difference) but can anyone say other teams are much different?

@CloakNNNdagger I'm sure you follow the rest of the NFL, and not expecting a lengthy reply, but have you seen any team 'do it right'? I would expect they all rush players back to soon, sign and/or draft players with circumspect re-injury chances etc.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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Great post and question, agree and curious about the answer myself. And man that’s one of my favorite tv scenes
 
FuzzyLogic said:
@CloakNNNdagger I'm sure you follow the rest of the NFL, and not expecting a lengthy reply, but have you seen any team 'do it right'? I would expect they all rush players back to soon, sign and/or draft players with circumspect re-injury chances etc.
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I have certainly seen isolated examples of all of these.............but not typically involving top of the draft picks or premiere/key players..............and certainly not multiply repeated examples by the same team, especially over short periods of time.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Clowney definitely WAS an injury risk. His entire last season in college, he was dealing with a knee injury, which I later found out was a medial meniscus of his right knee. Microfracture surgery was already being considered. However, this would have severely affected his expected high Draft status. At the same time, throughout his last college season, he was dealing with a significant "sports hernia" (core injury). In addition, he was found to have painful bone spurs in his foot that season, as well as a concussion.

Clowney was to have surgery to remove the bone spurs, but he opted not to. After he was drafted, the Texans medical staff finally in June decided that he required repair of his "sports hernia." At the time, he was known to have weakness of both sides, but due to a potentially longer recovery (and not being ready to play at the beginning of the regular season), it was decided to treat the contralateral side conservatively. After that, his history of knee injuries/surgeries is well known.

Whether the grass pallet seam helped trigger or even contributed to the need for his knee surgery or not can be debated. What can't be debated is that Clowney was a very high risk for his subsequent knee history coming out of college.

A college history of previous meniscus damage, bone spurs known to cause core problems and compensatory knee injuries, "sports hernia(s)" causing core instability with high risk for compensatory lower extremity injuries, and concussions well-known to be associated with high risk of subsequent lower extremity injuries.

The signs were already there for anyone, especially trained medical staff, paying attention.
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Well said. I think the FO just had to have him. Thus, it didn't really matter what the coaches may have wanted. Rumors are still around that OB wanted a QB... So yeah

As for Stingley and pumping his legs. Watch video his legs are in a near constant state of motion. So, if he has to cut and his legs are already going it is easier and not such an abrupt plant vs from no movement to run then cut
 
SnakeEyes said:
Well said. I think the FO just had to have him. Thus, it didn't really matter what the coaches may have wanted. Rumors are still around that OB wanted a QB... So yeah

As for Stingley and pumping his legs. Watch video his legs are in a near constant state of motion. So, if he has to cut and his legs are already going it is easier and not such an abrupt plant vs from no movement to run then cut
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thunderkyss said:
Doc, I can't figure out what you mean by "pumping his leg" can you explain?
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Clowney was a McNair choice. But I can tell you that the Texans medical staff supported the pick fully, with little concern with any of the pre-existing conditions I mentioned.

As far as Stingley, the constant "pumping" of the legs up and down is great in drills, but in real game play, a man CB must be able to "stick" and explode into a change of direction.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I have certainly seen isolated examples of all of these.............but not typically involving top of the draft picks or premiere/key players..............and certainly not multiply repeated examples by the same team, especially over short periods of time.
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Once again, I will say the Texans medical staff, lead by Dr. Lowe sucks. Their arrogance never ceases to amaze me.
 
pirbroke said:
I’m just going to say miracles in medicine do happen. Case in point
Justin Verlander
39 years old
Tied first in wins with 6
ERA 1.22 which is first
Whip is first at .72
It has been amazing what he has done after his surgery.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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It's great to see this in injuries/surgeries.

Keep in mind that history/expectation does not parallel Tommy John with lisfranc
surgery.

At the time of the first TJ operation, Dr. Jobe who I had the opportunity to meet with in a seminar in the late '90s put John's probability of returning to pitch at 1 in 100. That first surgery, performed in 1974, resulted in unprecedented success. Today, with very little modification from the original technique, it has become a very common operation in the MLB. It's been said that ~30% of all pitchers eventually undergo the surgery. Approximately 90% return to pitching, with most being able to throw harder than pre-injury.

Dr. Jobe, like Dr. Lisfranc have made great contributions to the understanding of the injuries and their reconstruction. However, today there still remains significant contrast between their respective surgeries' post performance expectations.
 
Here is what I don’t get. Seems to me to be something is incongruent with Stingley’s injury news. If the Texans say they are “holding him back” during OTA’s then to me some of those drills we see him in look pretty serious. I don’t know if they are pushing him to see how the foot reacts or what. im all in favor of pushing an injury a bit instead of just resting it. I walked out a plantar fasciitis diagnosis and shunned all suggested treatment in a couple of months. Physical labor and a healthy diet fixes everything for me….and I think a healthy positive attitude does wonders for the immune system. All the negative vibes on Derek is like witchcraft IMO, lol.
 
Dejaview said:
Here is what I don’t get. Seems to me to be something is incongruent with Stingley’s injury news. If the Texans say they are “holding him back” during OTA’s then to me some of those drills we see him in look pretty serious. I don’t know if they are pushing him to see how the foot reacts or what. im all in favor of pushing an injury a bit instead of just resting it. I walked out a plantar fasciitis diagnosis and shunned all suggested treatment in a couple of months. Physical labor and a healthy diet fixes everything for me….and I think a healthy positive attitude does wonders for the immune system. All the negative vibes on Derek is like witchcraft IMO, lol.
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Let me take this opportunity to introduce myself............Dr. CloakNNNdagger.

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Dejaview said:
Here is what I don’t get. Seems to me to be something is incongruent with Stingley’s injury news. If the Texans say they are “holding him back” during OTA’s then to me some of those drills we see him in look pretty serious. I don’t know if they are pushing him to see how the foot reacts or what. im all in favor of pushing an injury a bit instead of just resting it. I walked out a plantar fasciitis diagnosis and shunned all suggested treatment in a couple of months. Physical labor and a healthy diet fixes everything for me….and I think a healthy positive attitude does wonders for the immune system. All the negative vibes on Derek is like witchcraft IMO, lol.
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How did Schaub look after his lisfranc injury? Do you think that Schaub didn’t do a lot of proper exercise and dieting?
 
djohn2oo8 said:
How did Schaub look after his lisfranc injury? Do you think that Schaub didn’t do a lot of proper exercise and dieting?
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As I understand it, as it was explained by Doc, IIRC. Schaub lost velocity on his throws because he was not able to push off from his lisfranc injured right foot with any force. Or as they would say in baseball, he lost his 95 MPH fastball. My question about Stingley is can he make a hard plant on his lisfranc foot and then make a quick change of direction with the full burst and quickness he had before his lisfranc injury? If so, how long will he be able to do so before deterioration sets in?
 
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steelbtexan said:
Do you think Lovie wanted Stingley or not? Caserio/Lovie seemed to be aligned. Lovie worked out both Stingley/Sauce and Stingley was the pick. You think Caserio would go against Lovie's wishes, particularly on the defensive side of the ball? I don't.

Caserio said he needed to get a feel for the type of players Lovie wanted for his defense.
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Not sure really who was the top salesman in the Stingley sweepstakes. Caserio did say in his presser after RD 1 that right up until the pick the coaches' discussion was a passionate back and forth, Caserio also said he thought Lovie would have been just fine if they had gone in another direction with the pick.
 
The question for me is not so much will Stingley recover to be as good or better than his All-American self. The question is how many players in the NFL have returned from a lisfranc injury to perform at a level as good if not better than they were before they injured their foot? In particular those NFL players with lisfranc injuries that played CB and/or S? And if so, for how long?
 
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djohn2oo8 said:
How did Schaub look after his lisfranc injury? Do you think that Schaub didn’t do a lot of proper exercise and dieting?
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Who the freak knows? I just saw him riding around on a 1 mph go cart while Stingley was making more moves than you see in Dancing with the Stars. My point is if the team states they are holding him back then it doesn’t look like it to me. They give every appearance of being in push mode.
 
Texian said:
Not sure really who was the top salesman in the Stingley sweepstakes. Caserio did say in his presser after RD 1 that right up until the pick the coaches' discussion was a passionate back and forth, Caserio also said he thought Lovie would have been just fine if they had gone in another direction with the pick.
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You can bet Lovie told Caserio which guy he preferred. Caserio even said that he didn't know the types of players that Lovie needed for his defense and that he would lean on Lovie's experience when it came to drafting players that fit the Tampa 2. Petrie as an example is a great fit for Lovie's defense. IMHO Was that a Caserio pick too?

I do believe Caserio picked the players on offense. Although I do believe Pep/McDaniels/Warhop/Danny Barrett gave their preferences.


What happened to your Lovie's calling the shots narrative?
 
steelbtexan said:
You can bet Lovie told Caserio which guy he preferred. Caserio even said that he didn't know the types of players that Lovie needed for his defense and that he would lean on Lovie's experience when it came to drafting players that fit the Tampa 2. Petrie as an example is a great fit for Lovie's defense. IMHO Was that a Caserio pick too?

I do believe Caserio picked the players on offense. Although I do believe Pep/McDaniels/Warhop/Danny Barrett gave their preferences.


What happened to your Lovie's calling the shots narrative?
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Lovie did call all the shots. He decided the coaches turn to pick their favorite player. Defense first, offense 2nd and alternated right down the line. Absolutely no doubt Green was a Warhop pick and Metchie was a Pep pick.

The first pick probably went something like this. Lovie says, Warhop is locked in on Green so defensive coaches who do we want at #3? Who will have the most impact on our defense? Would explain the vibrant discussion up until they were on the clock.

The 2022 Texans takes me back to a time when Kubiak, Mike Sherman, Richard Smith and Frank Bush were running the Texans. I think we've seen this show before.
 
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Texian said:
Lovie did call all the shots. He decided the coaches turn to pick their favorite player. Defense first, offense 2nd and alternated right down the line. Absolutely no doubt Green was a Warhop pick and Metchie was a Pep pick.

The first pick probably went something like this. Lovie says, Warhop is locked in on Green so defensive coaches who do we want at #3? Who will have the most impact on our defense? Would explain the vibrant discussion up until they were on the clock.
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Then Lovie said give me Stingley.

I dont have a problem with a GM that gets his coaches the guys they want as long as they can evaluate talent. This has been missing for far too long down on Kirby.. I do believe that Caserio has the responsibilities of maneuvering up and down in the draft to get the guys the coaches want. Caserio is also the tiebreaker on say if Pep wants Metchie and McDaniels wants say Skyy Moore, then Caserio picks the guy he thinks is the best. Also if Caserio has a feeling about a guy he will talk to the coaches to make sure everybody is on board with the pick. Particularly in the later rds.
 
steelbtexan said:
Then Lovie said give me Stingley.

I dont have a problem with a GM that gets his coaches the guys they want as long as they can evaluate talent. This has been missing for far too long down on Kirby.. I do believe that Caserio has the responsibilities of maneuvering up and down in the draft to get the guys the coaches want. Caserio is also the tiebreaker on say if Pep wants Metchie and McDaniels wants say Skyy Moore, then Caserio picks the guy he thinks is the best. Also if Caserio has a feeling about a guy he will talk to the coaches to make sure everybody is on board with the pick. Particularly in the later rds.
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I think it was more of a consenus of coaches making the stronger argument for Stingley. I don't necessarily see it so much as a Lovie pick. Particularly since Nick said that Lovie would've been fine if they decided on a different player.

Tie breaker goes to OC Pep. Caserio's job is to make sure they draft Metchie. The coaches dictate the picks and Caserio calls the picks in or makes the trades to get the players the coaches want.

I know that is not the way it started when they hired Nick but that is way it is since they hired Lovie.
 
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Texian said:
As I understand it, as it was explained by Doc, IIRC. Schaub lost velocity on his throws because he was not able to push off from his lisfranc injured right foot with any force. Or as they would say in baseball, he lost his 95 MPH fastball. My question about Stingley is can he make a hard plant on his lisfranc foot and then make a quick change of direction with the full burst and quickness he had before his lisfranc injury? If so, how long will he be able to do so before deterioration sets in?
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I forecast that Stingley will be moved to a Zone defensive back
 
Texian said:
The question for me is not so much will Stingley recover to be as good or better than his All-American self. The question is how many players in the NFL have returned from a lisfranc injury to perform at a level as good if not better than they were before they injured their foot? In particular those NFL players with lisfranc injuries that played CB and/or S? And if so, for how long?
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?? What? What does it matter what any other player has or has not done as that only points to a hope ? I am just the opposite as I am only concerned about the Texans players not how somebody did in the past.
 
Texian said:
I think it was more of a consenus of coaches making the stronger argument for Stingley. I don't necessarily see it so much as a Lovie pick. Particularly since Nick said that Lovie would've been fine if they decided on a different player.

Tie breaker goes to OC Pep. Caserio's job is to make sure they draft Metchie. The coaches dictate the picks and Caserio calls the picks in or makes the trades to get the players the coaches want.

I know that is not the way it started when they hired Nick but that is way it is since they hired Lovie.
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See, you're talking outside of both sides of your mouth. Pep makes the calls on defense but Lovie didn't make the Stingley call. LMAO.

I think Lovie makes the final calls on defense and Caserio does on offense with the coaches input.
 
Texian said:
The question for me is not so much will Stingley recover to be as good or better than his All-American self. The question is how many players in the NFL have returned from a lisfranc injury to perform at a level as good if not better than they were before they injured their foot? In particular those NFL players with lisfranc injuries that played CB and/or S? And if so, for how long?
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I believe CnD has put alot of this info out there.
 
steelbtexan said:
Then Lovie said give me Stingley.

I dont have a problem with a GM that gets his coaches the guys they want as long as they can evaluate talent. This has been missing for far too long down on Kirby.. I do believe that Caserio has the responsibilities of maneuvering up and down in the draft to get the guys the coaches want. Caserio is also the tiebreaker on say if Pep wants Metchie and McDaniels wants say Skyy Moore, then Caserio picks the guy he thinks is the best. Also if Caserio has a feeling about a guy he will talk to the coaches to make sure everybody is on board with the pick. Particularly in the later rds.
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Do you think Harbaugh asked for Ray Lewis & Haloti Ngata?
 
I expect opposing offenses are going to test Stingley early and often. I don't think it will take long for us to see whether the concerns over Stingley's middle foot are unfounded or not. As of now, and as of the moment he was selected, I'm very skeptical.
 
steelbtexan said:
See, you're talking outside of both sides of your mouth. Pep makes the calls on defense but Lovie didn't make the Stingley call. LMAO.

I think Lovie makes the final calls on defense and Caserio does on offense with the coaches input.
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Metchie is a WR who plays on offense and Pep told Nick to go get him. Nick abides.
 
badboy said:
?? What? What does it matter what any other player has or has not done as that only points to a hope ? I am just the opposite as I am only concerned about the Texans players not how somebody did in the past.
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Those who don't know history are bound to repeat it. Therefore the question has any NFL DB who suffered a lisfranc injury and has been able to return to the same level of performance for an extended period of time is a very pertinent question to ask. The other question is if so, how many of those DB lisfranc injured players were able to do so.
Outcomes of Lisfranc Injuries in the National Football League - PubMed (nih.gov)
 
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