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Texan fans are idiots too!

actually I didn't agree with the 4th-1 call either. Unlike yourself though, even in 2005, I have never 'boo-ed' inside the stadium at the Texans. Guess I am an ***** for never booing, huh.

If we had showed to have even an mediocre running game at any time during the game, I would have completely agreed with THAT call. Showing that we couldn't get 2 yds in 3 tries from the 2 yd line for a TD, early in the game, was a direct reflection of our LACK of a running game. Hence that call, with intent of getting some distance out of the endzone, was a wasted call to me. And obviously gaining ONE WHOLE YD during the play, showed it was a wasted call. The very next play, from our 4 yd line, only netted 19 yds.

We ran very poorly yesterday and passed very well.

First of all what game were you watching? You said we were passing the ball well? Are you being serious? We had 5 or 6 nice passing plays. The rest were pretty bad. Schaub was high or late or behind with almost every throw. And we know that a TO in that area was the end of the game.

For the first time in a crucial situation, Kubes managed the clock exactly the way you should. You want to get the clock down to where you can run signifigant time off the clock on 3rd down, or force them to use their last time out in the event that you have to punt them the ball.

We weren't running the ball to get out of the endzone... we had to run the ball to start the clock. Here's how you handle that situation.

The opposing team is content to let you run out the clock in most situations, so they are not going to call a time out on first down. That is your chance to get the clock where you want it. If you pass on first down you are screwed if it is incomplete because the other team now has enough timeouts to force you to punt them the ball.

If however, you run the ball on first down... you stand a chance to run the clock out if you are unable to complete your pass on second down. Conversely you leave yourself enough time to make a few attempts to pass the ball should you be successful on second down. Keep in mind you are basically handing them the game if you don't do it this way because if you punt them the ball from your 3 yard line they are probably going to get the ball in field goal range. That's because you have to punt from a max protect formation because there isn't much room in the endzone.

If the pass play works on second down you leave yourself a chance to score. But if it doesn't you are trying to make sure either force them to burn their last time out (limiting them to pass plays once they get the ball) or not have to punt the ball at all by running on 3rd down. I thought it was perfect clock management. The first time we've seen such a since the Moon-Jefferies days if you ask me.

Mike
 
First of all what game were you watching? You said we were passing the ball well? Are you being serious? We had 5 or 6 nice passing plays.
serious as a heart attack. We averaged 5.2 yds a pass and 2.6 yds per run. So I am being totally serious when I said we were passing well, compared to running. Twice as well. Schaub ended up being the 3rd highest passing QB for the week, behind Romo, and his comback, and Favre and his loss.

You can't use the 'we were going for the first down' argument to disagree with this either. We got 12 first downs by passing and only 6 by running. If you truly want to get a first down then pass the ball.

the last drive was made possible by 19, 14, 19, and 6 yd passes. Not runs.

Penalty's and sacks are what killed our drives. Not the bad passing game. Look at the play by play stuff and you will see that if we had a long sustained drive it was penalty free. The holding calls at the worst times killed our drives. Sometimes AFTER we had picked up the first down it was negated by a penalty.
 
serious as a heart attack. We averaged 5.2 yds a pass and 2.6 yds per run. So I am being totally serious when I said we were passing well, compared to running. Twice as well. Schaub ended up being the 3rd highest passing QB for the week, behind Romo, and his comback, and Favre and his loss.

You can't use the 'we were going for the first down' argument to disagree with this either. We got 12 first downs by passing and only 6 by running. If you truly want to get a first down then pass the ball.

the last drive was made possible by 19, 14, 19, and 6 yd passes. Not runs.

Penalty's and sacks are what killed our drives. Not the bad passing game. Look at the play by play stuff and you will see that if we had a long sustained drive it was penalty free. The holding calls at the worst times killed our drives. Sometimes AFTER we had picked up the first down it was negated by a penalty.

The holding calls were part of the passing game. Jason Taylor was running over or around Salaam all day long. He and Pitts were tackling him from behind for the last three quarters.
 
I sat with Herv and he can tell you that I called the run and we discussed why you should not pass on that first play...but some fans were booing anyway. I also discussed Cameron's idiotic play calling. Brown was going off for about 7 ypc in the first half and they come out throwing the ball after halftime. I told him if I was a Dolphin fan I'd be an unhappy fan.


it was esp bad around the 2 min warning- they were on the edge of fg range and they put the balll in lemon's hands when browns dominating? wth.. needless to say we rushed him and he threw it out of bounds wasting a down and stopping the clock- time which was vital for us afterwards (cheers cam:texflag: )
 
take a sack for a safety and the game is even more over.

And for those arguing the 'field position dictated a run', Normally I would completely agree with that thinking. But not in yesterdays game when we didn't have anything remotely resembling a running game all game long. And that much time on the clock and we only needed to get into FG range.

The fans were booing for the fact that apparently Kubiak was playing for OT, and they didn't like it. All that changed with the 19 yd pass. IMO

Kubiaks clock management is still suspect, IMO. He hasn't shown a real good grasp of how to manage a late game clock this season so far, including yesterday.


Kubiak explained his thought processes on that on Monday.

Judgment call. You go pass pass pass and not make the first down, or get sacked in the endzone it is probably going to be a loss and not even giving you a chance for OT.

In some ways that run is for future games too. If teams know you are going to pass every play, it makes it harder to pass.

Seeing Ron Dayne trying to run the last couple of games really makes me feel vomity, but I know they have to try.
 
take a sack there and the games over...he did the right thing.

And that's how you coach conservative/scared.
Kubiak says "what if we get sacked?" Another coach says "what if we do a quick slant and get 10 yards?"

Also, I watched the game last night again, and that last drive for the winning FG was terrible. They run on the first play and burn up almost 30 seconds, and then barely make it to the 40 yard line for a 57 yard FG. And they left one timeout on the table.
It's unforced errors that tick me off. The drive before the half was just as bad. They had 3:30 on the clock, and barely drive down for a 54 yarder.

Kubes needs to watch old film of Stabler and Staubach to see how real two minute drives are run.
This has gone on now three games in a row.
 
serious as a heart attack. We averaged 5.2 yds a pass and 2.6 yds per run. So I am being totally serious when I said we were passing well, compared to running. Twice as well. Schaub ended up being the 3rd highest passing QB for the week, behind Romo, and his comback, and Favre and his loss.

You can't use the 'we were going for the first down' argument to disagree with this either. We got 12 first downs by passing and only 6 by running. If you truly want to get a first down then pass the ball.

the last drive was made possible by 19, 14, 19, and 6 yd passes. Not runs.

Penalty's and sacks are what killed our drives. Not the bad passing game. Look at the play by play stuff and you will see that if we had a long sustained drive it was penalty free. The holding calls at the worst times killed our drives. Sometimes AFTER we had picked up the first down it was negated by a penalty.
With all due respect, gr8, but I have to agree with Mike on the clock management issue. Kube did right by running to start that drive. We really don't want to give the ball back to the Dolphins, even with 10 secs left.

As far as passing vs running for the game, you are right that the passing game was not as terrible as the running game.
However,
(1) If you go by numbers alone, 5.2 ypa would be "good" enough to tie with the Saints for dead last for the season.
For a WCO, that is a sure fire way to lose a game.
(2) As TexanMike mentioned, Schaub was not very accurate in this game. He wasn't off by much on the majority of the throws, but "off" nonetheless.
And that is one of the issue I have with Schaub, especially across the middle. It is a concern because exposing your receivers there could lead to a fumble/Int, or worse, an injury.
JMHO.
 
Oh yeah, and the stadium was half-empty at kickoff.

There is no excuse for that. I agree.

On another note, I watched the game again last night, and I'm sick of being nice to those Texan's fans that keep yelling when the Texans have the ball. Especially near the end zone.
The Texan's post the sign "Quiet, Offense Working", and these mo-rons keep yelling.
Schaub flaps his arms, and they keep yelling.
We need to tell them to shut up, and when they object, we need to power through it because we are right.

I thought fans in Texas knew football??
 
If this was already brought up, sorry but I think we baited Miami by making them think we were gonna kill the clock. Maybe to hold the dline and give us a few seconds to throw the pass.
 
And that's how you coach conservative/scared.
Kubiak says "what if we get sacked?" Another coach says "what if we do a quick slant and get 10 yards?"

Ok, the answer to Kubiak's question would have been: We lose the game. The answer to "another coach's" question would be a first down. They ran the ball in that situation because of 2 things; to start the clock, and to avoid any mishaps that potentially would have cost us the game, that is a sack or the possibility of giving the Dolphins the ball back with a short field. I understand everyone wanting to go for it all right there, but come on people Kubiak put us in the best position to win the game which is what we did. The clock was the most important factor in the decisions made. The last thing you want to do is give Miami the ball back on a short field. If Kubiak would have called for a pass and it was incomplete therefore stopping the clock, we would have had to run the ball on the next play (or heaven forbid another incompletion and clock stoppage) and would have effectively been playing for overtime. With the choice of plays (even though it was only a 1 yard gain) it started the clock, and opened up our options. We were then playing for the win. Good call coach, the only call.
 
And that's how you coach conservative/scared.
That's not coaching scared...it's coaching smart. Last time I checked, football is a strategy game. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction so you don't make decisions that get you beat if you can control your situation and control the tempo of the moment. I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty happy with 3-2 without most of our skill guys.
 
That's not coaching scared...it's coaching smart. Last time I checked, football is a strategy game. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction so you don't make decisions that get you beat if you can control your situation and control the tempo of the moment. I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty happy with 3-2 without most of our skill guys

What I was trying to say. I agree with Texans Chick, you have a good way of putting things.
 
I'd say at 3-2 we're in good shape. We could have very easily lost to Carolina and probably should have beaten Atlanta. This will be a big game against Jax to see if we can get to 4-2, and also important for the division win.
 
serious as a heart attack. We averaged 5.2 yds a pass and 2.6 yds per run. So I am being totally serious when I said we were passing well, compared to running.

As far as passing vs running for the game, you are right that the passing game was not as terrible as the running game.
However,
(1) If you go by numbers alone, 5.2 ypa would be "good" enough to tie with the Saints for dead last for the season.
For a WCO, that is a sure fire way to lose a game.

Not sure where 5.2 ypa comes from. Schaub was 20 of 34 for 296 yards--8.6 ypa, 14.8 ypc.

Matt Schaub is 5th in the league for ypa and 3rd highest completion %--without a running game or two of his top three WR's.
 
the numbers come from the gamebook on NFL.com, infantry.

http://http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29257&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2007&week=REG5

I didn't like the call then. I don't like it in hindsight either. I understand the 'why' of it completely. I just don't agree with it.

but hey, some will say 'six' and some will say 'half a dozen'.

Call it good clock management if you wish. I don't think so.
Also, I watched the game last night again, and that last drive for the winning FG was terrible. They run on the first play and burn up almost 30 seconds, and then barely make it to the 40 yard line for a 57 yard FG. And they left one timeout on the table.
It's unforced errors that tick me off. The drive before the half was just as bad. They had 3:30 on the clock, and barely drive down for a 54 yarder.- BattleRedFlash
pretty much the way I saw it also and the reason I don't think Kubiak has a good grasp yet on clock management.

Others will disagree with this and they have valid reason's behind that also.

poh-tato...............pah-tato. :texflag:
 
There is no excuse for that. I agree.

On another note, I watched the game again last night, and I'm sick of being nice to those Texan's fans that keep yelling when the Texans have the ball. Especially near the end zone.
The Texan's post the sign "Quiet, Offense Working", and these mo-rons keep yelling.
Schaub flaps his arms, and they keep yelling.
We need to tell them to shut up, and when they object, we need to power through it because we are right.

I thought fans in Texas knew football??

We do. We just can't read. :user:
 
OK, I'll believe you is you say so, CAK.

all that does, though, is really prove the we were passing the ball signifigantly better than running it. Even more than my original numbers indicated. And yet Kubiak makes the argument that he was going for a first down by running the ball from the 3 yd line? Thats the part I don't agree with on that call. With the time left, the amount of time that play took off the clock, and the fact that we were moving the ball quite well by passing it, but instead we go for the 'playing not to lose' game instead of the 'taking it to them' game for a win.

We had alot more than 5-6 passing plays that looked good, said by someone else in this post.

And I think that THAT is the majority of the reason that alot of fans were 'boo-ing' their displeasure with that decision. I didn't boo, but I didn't like it either. And a couple of days later, after reading all the 'logical/deductive football field position, yada, yada, arguments, I STILL don't like that call at that time in that game.

In another game I could easily see myself on the other side of the fence and saying, good call for the safest way to ensure we didn't lose that game.

But in that game it was a bad call by Kubiak, IMO
 
If Kubiak had called a pass and Jason Taylor comes around and sacks Schaub in the endzone there would ahve been people yelling from the peanut gallery about how stupid Kubiak was for passing in that situation because he knows we didn't have our top weapons and he knows Salaam has trouble with speed rushers.......

Blah, blah, blah...who cares...

You guys booed because you didn't understand the situation nor did you understand what he was trying to do......

The only reason I brought up the fact that he was atleast trying to get the first down is because many of you were booing because you thought he was playing for OT....YOU WERE WRONG....He was trying to get the first down to AT THE LEAST not have to give the Dolphins the ball back...

Use your head...

That is why after he got the first we started taking our shots down field...

He said as much in the interview yesterday...

If he had been playing for OT we would have actually...you know....played for OT....

Anywho...I'd suggest you all get used to the way Kubiak calls plays because as long as it's resulting in W's, I doubt he changes...
 
I've not booed when we were on offense since, well................ since............... ummmm Chris Palmer was high atop Reliant Stadium, or Joe Pendry was making calls.
 
OK, I'll believe you is you say so, CAK.

all that does, though, is really prove the we were passing the ball signifigantly better than running it. Even more than my original numbers indicated. And yet Kubiak makes the argument that he was going for a first down by running the ball from the 3 yd line? Thats the part I don't agree with on that call.

what about Jason Taylor and his dominating the players who were blocking him? Isn't that supposed to factor in somewhere? Schaub took a couple of big sacks earlier in the middle of the field...no reason to think that the Dolphins weren't going to bring the house when we are backed up to our own 2 yard line and the game on the line.....a sack there ends the game.
 
Those same fans who do not know when to cheer and not to cheer support your team though ticket revenue. And if a team is not making enough ticket revenue they tend to leave the location they call home ..... sounds familiar some how :hmmm:

I would call them a necessary evil .... now if they could all be placed in a certain area ... maybe take a quick multiple choice test when you purchase your tickets?
 
Those same fans who do not know when to cheer and not to cheer support your team though ticket revenue. And if a team is not making enough ticket revenue they tend to leave the location they call home ..... sounds familiar some how :hmmm:

yeah, Los Angeles lost two teams that way.

I know you're attempting to link it to your owner leaving H-town, but your ignorance on the subject is clear. Bud did not leave because of ticket sales, but because the local politicians would not give him the land and funds to build a stadium for his 100% control.
 
Those same fans who do not know when to cheer and not to cheer support your team though ticket revenue. And if a team is not making enough ticket revenue they tend to leave the location they call home ..... sounds familiar some how :hmmm:

Don't start with that BS.. You know better, or at least I thought you did. It was ALL about a 'new' stadium.
 
And yet Kubiak makes the argument that he was going for a first down by running the ball from the 3 yd line? Thats the part I don't agree with on that call. With the time left, the amount of time that play took off the clock, and the fact that we were moving the ball quite well by passing it, but instead we go for the 'playing not to lose' game instead of the 'taking it to them' game for a win.

It's a bit of hindsight, but you could say the mistake was Cameron not calling timeout. If he had, that would have forced Kubiak's hand, and he probably would have just tried to run the clock on 2nd down, based on his comments.
 
That is why after he got the first we started taking our shots down field...
uhmmm, nooooo, we actually got the first down on the very next play which was a 19 yd PASS. And then followed that with a 14 yd pass, and then followed that with another 19 yd pass. All of these STARTED from the 4yd line. Not downfield AFTER we got an initial first down from running.

And don't look back now, but that PASS was done from the 4 yd line. (unlike the previous RUN which was done from the 3 yd line). Which TOTALLY kills the 'what about Taylor sacking Schaub, argument, IMO, because (A) it didn't happen on the very next play from the 4yd line, and (B) do you really think that there is a difference in calling a RUN play from the 3 yd line and PASS play from the 4yd line, when your main argument is avoiding an INT/FUMBLE/SACK/SAFETY? There is NO difference in those situation and their potential to happen from either the 3yd line, or the 4 yd line. ONE whole yard does not change the equation of your arguments THAT much. IMO
 
It's a bit of hindsight, but you could say the mistake was Cameron not calling timeout. If he had, that would have forced Kubiak's hand, and he probably would have just tried to run the clock on 2nd down, based on his comments.
I heard that also Rex and wondered it THAT was what prompted Kubiak to call a pass play on the next play.

OR

OK, now I am going to go out on a long skinny limb and hand the board a chainsaw to use here, BUUUTTTTTT


should we consider that PERHAPS the crowd 'boo-ing' Kubiak's RUN call, prompted him to go for a Pass play on the next play???

yeah I know, the Head Coach doesn't listen to the armchair QB's sittin in the stands and blah, blah.

But just consider it for a moment before you throw the BS card at this comment.

It IS a possibility. Not a good one, but a definite possibility............no?
 
Those same fans who do not know when to cheer and not to cheer support your team though ticket revenue. And if a team is not making enough ticket revenue they tend to leave the location they call home ..... sounds familiar some how :hmmm:

I would call them a necessary evil .... now if they could all be placed in a certain area ... maybe take a quick multiple choice test when you purchase your tickets?

We had no problem filling the Dome.....anyway you can have our leftovers.
 
I heard that also Rex and wondered it THAT was what prompted Kubiak to call a pass play on the next play.

OR

OK, now I am going to go out on a long skinny limb and hand the board a chainsaw to use here, BUUUTTTTTT


should we consider that PERHAPS the crowd 'boo-ing' Kubiak's RUN call, prompted him to go for a Pass play on the next play???

yeah I know, the Head Coach doesn't listen to the armchair QB's sittin in the stands and blah, blah.

But just consider it for a moment before you throw the BS card at this comment.

It IS a possibility. Not a good one, but a definite possibility............no?

No....
 
I heard that also Rex and wondered it THAT was what prompted Kubiak to call a pass play on the next play.

OR

OK, now I am going to go out on a long skinny limb and hand the board a chainsaw to use here, BUUUTTTTTT


should we consider that PERHAPS the crowd 'boo-ing' Kubiak's RUN call, prompted him to go for a Pass play on the next play???

yeah I know, the Head Coach doesn't listen to the armchair QB's sittin in the stands and blah, blah.

But just consider it for a moment before you throw the BS card at this comment.

It IS a possibility. Not a good one, but a definite possibility............no?

It is as possible as David Carr starting Week 4 of the season. Sometimes reason ain't got no reason to be known.

He hears the fans, but I really did not hear the volume of boos that some are suggesting.

Even in that scenario it proves to me we got the right coach between his mind, experience and his feel for the game and personnel. One really cannot understand the weight of, or the experience gained from, time, score and situation until you have tasted it as a player and coach. The dude is not walking on defrosted tundra, but there is a resurrection going on in Houston and it starts with the Aggiesexual. :texflag:
 
I didn't have a problem with the run play. My problem was with the 40 seconds they ran off the clock before running the next play. Then I think it was when the called their 2nd TO when they were up to the line and could have easily spiked the ball. I just haven't been too impressed with clock management/use of timeouts the last couple or 3 games now.

As for the noise on offense, especially on 4th down, yeah, that just gets my blood boiling. I'm definitely letting my section know to STFU. I didn't get to go to a lot of Oiler games back in the day, so somebody who did will have to tell me...were the fans like that then, in the Luv Ya Blue days, R&S days, screaming when the offense had the ball?
 
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