Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Tim Tebow was an all time great in college .
These numbers are from a HOF QB when he was in college .
comp att pct yds ya aya tds int QB rtg
395 638 61.9 4773 7.5 7.2 30 17 134.9
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Teddy Bridgewater
- Thread starter revan
- Start date
Tim Tebow was an all time great in college .
These numbers are from a HOF QB when he was in college .
comp att pct yds ya aya tds int QB rtg
395 638 61.9 4773 7.5 7.2 30 17 134.9
Texian
Hall of Fame
I'll ask again, one last time, when was the last time Baylor did something like that?
Texian
Hall of Fame
If the 2011 Baylor team has the 2013 Baylor defense they likely go undefeated.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Excuse me, I'm sorry, I thought this was discussion about RGIII and TB. I didn't realize it also included Tebow, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Mettenberger, Tarkenton, Vince Lombardi, Sonny Jurgenson, Thomas Jefferson, Nathan Hale, Stanley Miller, Capernicus, Issac Newton, Leonardo DaVinci, Michaelangelo and Pope John Paul II
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
OK ... put Teddy on that Baylor team and RG3 on this Louisville team and what happens ?
Last year Teddy's team beat the snot out of #3 Florida and that might have been a better win than anything RG3 came up with . Especially after that Bostic hit early .
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Is that the beer talking?
TexansFTW
Veteran
There was a lot of talk in this thread a few pages back about how Teddy B didn't deserve to be in the conversation for the Texans because he wasn't even a Heisman Finalist.
Well one Heisman Finalist, 6'00" QB, Jordan Lynch, did play last night. 20/35 on 57% completion with 2 total TDs (1 rushing) and 1 Interception all while Jordan Lynches Northern Illinois Huskies got their ass handed to them against 9-5 Utah State. His only passing TD of the game was achieved with 1:44 left in the game when the game was basically out of hand.
Well one Heisman Finalist, 6'00" QB, Jordan Lynch, did play last night. 20/35 on 57% completion with 2 total TDs (1 rushing) and 1 Interception all while Jordan Lynches Northern Illinois Huskies got their ass handed to them against 9-5 Utah State. His only passing TD of the game was achieved with 1:44 left in the game when the game was basically out of hand.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Anyone arguing for clowney,matthews ,or whomever else didn't watch tonight. He made dep breaking routes,he showed precision,poise,movement and a level approach even after the safety. Rick was in the building and he had to be impressed. When he interviews,he's gonna kill it too.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
It looked good tonight, outside of some correctable mistakes. I'll be interested to see how he interviews as I think the mental strength of a quarterback comes first.
Having said that, comparing Bridgewater to Wilson is just odd. They are not very much alike at all.
Having said that, comparing Bridgewater to Wilson is just odd. They are not very much alike at all.
aussie_texan
Veteran
i have seen a lot of comparisons of TB with Rodgers when he was at Cal.
http://draftbreakdown.com/the-right-comparison-for-bridgewater/
this is a nice look at it
http://draftbreakdown.com/the-right-comparison-for-bridgewater/
this is a nice look at it
Blake
MMQB
How so?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
From a body type standpoint, Wilson is shorter and more compact, even when in college. Bridgewater is taller, much skinnier. Wilson creates a lot more plays with his legs and he'll shovel pass it out there, you don't really see Bridgewater do that a whole lot. They are both non-gunslingers though, so they do have that in common.
Blake
MMQB
My mistake. I read that as you saying they were comparable. Apparently I need coffee before I post on here. :P
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Wilson would be like Boyd or Murray .
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
So the Texans shouldnt touch Teddy B because he doesnt grade out to Luck,Griffin,Manning??? How crazy is that. I guess the Texans should just suck next year too just to have a chance at Winston because he's head and shoulders better than Bridgewater right? Crazy.
Whats the difference between a prospect rated A+ and A- ?? Personal Opinion.
Teddy B is gonna look great in that deep steel blue.
Whats the difference between a prospect rated A+ and A- ?? Personal Opinion.
Teddy B is gonna look great in that deep steel blue.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Aaron Rodgers? I'm thinking more like Russell Wilson: Mobility + pocket presence seems similar to Wilson.
bah007
Hall of Fame
He's not as athletic as Wilson but that's a fine comparison. Aaron Rodgers is a very mobile guy. I think they're very similar.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
That link posted above makes a great case for a comparison to Rodgers.....
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I'm not fully determined that Bridgewater is the guy, yet. Based on what I have seen and the arguments pro/con, I feel quite good about him, though.
Here's my perspective:
Instead of comparing Bridgewater to other elite draft prospects, shouldn't we be looking at current, great NFL QBs and determine what they have and then the likelihood that Teddy Bridgewater has, or can develop those things?
Usually, the elite prospects have an off-the-chart skill, or combination of skills that separate him from the rest. Either that, or incredible success/stats in his college career (Tim Couch, Vinny Testeverde, Peyton Manning)... Sometimes it is elite athleticism: RGIII, J.Russell, Cam Newton, Michael Vick, John Elway. Sometimes it is a remarkable arm: Jeff George, Troy Aikman, Drew Bledsoe.
Looking at those groups, sometimes the player has worked out very well, sometimes it doesn't. I'm not arguing that those players were drafted solely, or even primarily, because of that one elite ability. However, I am saying that it is usually one, definable trait that makes a QB a clear/universal number one choice.
However, that elite skill has never proven to be the difference-maker for greatness in the NFL. Not only that, but many of the all-time great QBs have lacked any elite skills. So, then, what is it that makes them great. The popular thinking is that guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees are overflowing with intangibles that they make up for their lack of athleticism. Essentially, they compensate with their mind and with their "heart" to make up for the lack of special athletic ability. I disagree. Instead, I think the elite athleticism that is coveted in the draft are highly overrated. I think an elite arm is almost inconsequential in the NFL. As many advantages as there is, it also creates problems- from bad habits to lower catch % by WRs, etc...
I think there is a baseline, though. To succeed in the NFL, QBs must be able to deliver the ball into tight windows. Therefore, a great QB must be able to get the ball from his hand to the hand of his WR in relatively little time... This, though, is necessarily a combination of decision-making, footwork, release, and arm strength. Can a QB consistently get the ball into those windows inside of that time?
So, back to the question: what makes a QB great in the NFL?
1st- He must have the combination of footwork, release, and arm strength to succeed in the NFL- by that, he must be able to fit the ball into spaces when a game is on the line and the other team knows it will be a pass.
2nd- Accuracy! All great NFL quarterbacks are accurate passers in the modern era. The NFL is now a 60/40 pass to run league. So, great QBs must have consistent accuracy.
3rd- Quick mental processor on the field.
4th most of the following intangibles: great work ethic, love of the game, intelligent, good decision-maker, leadership skills, mental toughness.
This is how I think the Texans should evaluate Bridgewater and all the QBs in the draft:
1. Does he have the necessary passing skills to get the ball into NFL windows consistently (yes or no)
2. Is he highly accurate?/ or, is he accurate enough and can we develop him into a highly accurate QB (yes or no)
3. Does he make consistently good decisions during games and under pressure? (yes or no).
4. Does he have a strong list of intangibles that can be nurtured so he can lead a team into, and through, years of success and also bounce back from moments of failure, leading his team through that as well? ( yes or no )
** If Bridgewater is a confident "yes" to all 4 of those questions, then I think the Texans must draft him. If not, stay away from him, because your evaluation of him indicates that sustained greatness is not even possible.
Are there other Qbs in the draft that you can answer yes to all 4 questions? Or to 3 of the questions with a "maybe" for 1? Can we get him later in round one or in round two?
Most of the criticism against Bridgewater are irrelevant to the question, "will he become a great NFL Qb?", IMO.
1. His arm is good, not great... His release is quick. His footwork is good and can be further improved with coaching... He has proven to be a quick decision-maker... I'm confident he has what is needed to get place the ball into NFL windows.
2. He is very accurate, and I don't see any physical or mechanical issues in the way of his accuracy becoming even greater.
3. I have not seen enough of him to argue about his decision-making... From what I have seen and heard, it seems to be a strength of his.
4. Again, I don't know him well enough to answer questions about his intangibles. But, again, from what I have witnessed and heard/read about, he seems to have a pretty good list of them.
Thoughts?
Texan4Ever
All Pro
Is it just me or do some of his throws (or all of them) remind you of Vince Young? His delivery is too slow IMO...would like a guy with more zip on the ball.
great post!
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
His delivery is fast it's just that the ball isn't always coming out with a lot of zip, like you say.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
It's harder for me to get behind that comparison because of what Rodger's has accomplished in the NFL. He's one of the elite level QB's and he has won a Super Bowl. Wilson is mobile but seems to be more of a pocket passer, which seems to fit Bridgewater. Would I take Russell Wilson 1st overall? Yes, I would.
That's what I originally thought until I watched more highlights and the game vs. Miami. He seemed to have better velocity and accuracy that I first thought.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I understand where you're coming from. I had the same issue grading Andrew Luck last year. I thought he was really similar to Peyton Manning except that he is a much better athlete. I even graded him higher than I graded Manning coming out of college. But then at the last moment I lowered his grade because of what Peyton has accomplished in the league. It seemed silly to say any college prospect could be better than Peyton Manning. But I really think Luck is that good.
In the same way, it seems silly to say that a college player is similar to a Super Bowl winning QB. But that's just who he reminds me of.
TexansFTW
Veteran
When did Rus Wil become a pocket passer? 2 seasons throwing less than 400x and rushing about 100. That's hardly a pocket passer. The only thing you will find any further from a pocket passer is Terrell Pryor or Michael Vick in his Falcon's days. Rus Wil is NOT a pocket passer and Teddy B is NOTHING like Rus Wil.
Teddy B is the most perfect Aaron Rodgers prospect I've seen in the last few years. Aaron is athletic, cool under pressure, and uses his legs to buy time to find his play makers down the field once they've got open. That can not be taught and I feel is lost on all these young "athletic" QBs.
Teddy has all the same traits, he maneuvers around the pocket buying time for play makers with little intention to take off for a 4 yard gain like guys like Rus Wil seem to make a living on. Buying time for play makers is a skill that can't be taught and I believe it's probably a top 3 most valuable skill I look for in a QB in the new NFL (untouchable QBs that aren't allowed to be hit until they cross LOS).
Examples of QBs that have recently exhibited this skill set:
Aaron Rodgers (Super Bowl)
Ben Ro (2 Super Bowls)
Joe Flacco (last year, you're damn right he did, and Super Bowl)
Drew Brees (Super Bowl)
As far as size and velocity on ball, these are questions on almost every non qb son coming out of college and the time leading up to the combine puts mass, muscle, and zip on all these 20 year old QBs. Those will all be resolved come combine, I've seen it happen numerous times and doubt this will be any different.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
I'm not knocking the Aaron Rodgers comparison at all, that just seems like pretty lofty expectations.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
I think his release is fine, the throws themselves aren't the fastest but it's not slow either.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
I buy the Aaron Rodgers comparison, but I'm not tagging him with Aaron Rodgers expectations. It's not that he is Aaron Rodgers (if he was pick him for God's sake) - he just has exhibited similar characteristics thus far in his college career. He seems to be cool under fire, a leader of his team, and solid mental and physical tools.
TexansFTW
Veteran
History is made with new chapters opening for new QBs every draft. Rodgers would have been thrilled if one person would have compared him to Steve Young coming out. Instead the only thing I recall ever seeing was comparisons to Drew Brees (The Drew Brees before New Orleans).
By the end of Rodgers' career I don't think it will be crazy to say that he will have exceeded Steve Young's career accomplishments, which coming out of college would have also been very lofty expectations I imagine.
Being drafted in a new anti-defense pro-QB NFL doesn't hurt either.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Rogers was passed on by the Texans for Travis Johnson .
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Oy vey, no reminders of that please :vincepalm:
TexansFTW
Veteran
I read everything you said, and you obviously put some work into it. I know this is gonna come off as rude, but as far as your assessment, I feel you haven't watched him play any college football at all. I disagree almost completely with your assessment on your 4 criteria.
I respect you taking the time to throw out your thoughts in that long, thought out explanation though. I don't feel it's necessary that I throw points out why I disagree with all 4 of your points because I'm one of the main speakers in this Teddy B thread and you will just see me repeat everything I've stated on many different pages.
The only one I agree with you is on #3 where you state:
3. I have not seen enough of him to argue about his decision-making... From what I have seen and heard, it seems to be a strength of his.
Except that should also apply to #1 and #2. I recommend you read thoughts from notable NFL draft websites to better answer these questions. In this thread you're going to find a lot of weak arm and bad mechanics from the very people that are touting Blake Bortles or Clowney (AKA Bias), but from those draft experts that don't care who the Texans draft I fail to read those things.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Perhaps you misunderstood my previous post... I am pro-Bridgewater for pick number one. My argument is that the anti-Bridgewater crowd does not understand that a great QB in the NFL is great, not because he can throw 80 yards or run a 4.4, but because he has a collection of good skills and a set of intangibles. I am becoming increasingly convinced that Bridgewater has everything needed to be a great NFL QB.
Here is a small sampling of what I have been seeing- consistent arguments are: "good, but not great"- pertaining to his arm, his athleticism, etc... Usually, the compliments are about his poise, accuracy, and other intangibles. People also express concern about his frame and ability to handle the physicality in the NFL.
12/21/13: Sources from around the NFL have told WalterFootball.com that Bridgewater is not grading out like other recent No. 1 picks at the quarterback position: Andrew Luck, Cam Newton or Matthew Stafford. These sources feel that Bridgewater isn't a lock to be the No. 1 pick or the first quarterback selected. A number of sources said they would take Jadeveon Clowney over Bridgewater.
Walterfootball : Bridgewater has a good skill set, but not a great one, according to NFL evaluators. He is not the athlete or passer that Newton and Luck are. Bridgewater has a strong arm, but not an elite cannon. While he has some mobility on rollouts, he isn't viewed as being close to the same type of running threat as Newton or Luck. Bridgewater isn't projected to be a true dual-threat quarterback in the NFL. The 6-foot-3, 218-pounder is also smaller than those other quarterbacks, and some sources have said that he could check in with a slighter build.
CBS: Although quick, Bridgewater has a lower than ideal release point with the ball shooting passed his ear. Some durability concerns after all the hits he has taken over his career, specifically to his wrist and ankle. He's mobile enough to extend plays, but isn't a true dual-threat quarterback.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I really like how everybody thinks this dual threat QB thing is going to take off and change the NFL.
It's nice to have an athletic QB. But the ones who have always and will always win are the ones who beat you from the pocket. If you have a guy that can do both then awesome, but it's not totally necessary.
It's nice to have an athletic QB. But the ones who have always and will always win are the ones who beat you from the pocket. If you have a guy that can do both then awesome, but it's not totally necessary.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Wow! That was an impressive, athletic display.
Alright... help me see what you guys see when you look at Teddy Bridgewater. Following is a list of NFL QBs I'm familiar with. It's already been stated (& I think most people agree) he's not Andrew Luck. With that in mind, who is he most like?
- Robert Griffin
- Cam Newton
- Colin Kaepernick
- Sam Bradford
- Nick Foles
- Aaron Rogers
- Joe Flacco
- Matthew Stafford
- Josh Freeman
- Matt Ryan
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
The two comparisons I've seen are Rodgers and Wilson.
Are you wanting style or where I am guessing he ends in the pecking order of goodness.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
my draft comparison is Cam Newton. why? because both seem to be disliked or misaligned because of personal bias, yet despite having less than highest draft grade Cam Newton went #1 overall as will Teddy Bridgewater (Cam was graded below Blaine Gabbert). A lot of people had to eat crow & they will continue to eat crow.
my playing comparison is Aaron Rogers. Quick, accurate release, pocket passer who scrambles to throw the ball not to run it. Played in Pro-Style offense. Slight build as well 6020 223. Teddy put on 30 in three years @ Louisville, imagine he will add at least another 15-20 in the Pros.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Thank you for clearing that up. I respect what you've said. I like Walter Football. If they say that then maybe I should step back because maybe my desire for him to be a Texan has too much bias.
As far as CBS, I generally like them, but you will notice of all draft websites (not including ESPN) they seem to have some of the wildest swings in their draft outlooks on players. I don't know how you can predict a future ankle injury when I feel like all of his injuries have been contact injuries and therefore impossible to duplicate, but he hasn't even missed a complete game at the collegiate level.
Like you said, if every place says really good, not great, that's interesting, but I'm still sold. I think a lot of tunes will change when he shows up to the combine at 220 and shows off a beast arm a lot are weary of.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Oh yeah?? Well does Rodgers have a career as a dim witted radio personality? Travis has you there GB can go so suck it.
If we don't draft him with the #1 overall, where does he end up?